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Other bad news from Iraq. |
boto43
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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From: Trnava-Nitra,Pardubice CSSR
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Hey westerners, Russians were released,how is it possible? Iraqis are making a difference between christians. That's not so good news.
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soulframe
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 225
From: London
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On 2004-04-14 01:55:10, boto43 wrote:
Hey guys,as I can see this debate I would say 3. WW is coming. The war between muslim world and westeners.Who can save the world? Perhaps, Chinesse communists. Really, who was thinking about a fact, usa didn't ,make' wars with the muslims during the era of the Soviet union.
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Err? Wake up and smell the coffee people! Why does everyone seem to be so surprised? This 'War' on Islam has been going on ever since Islam first started. It's just another crusade, led by the Zionist's and Extreme Christian right, who basicly control the USA, who control the world. There's not much anyone can do about it unfortunatly, as long as the west sees Islam as a threat to it's NWO, then we're not gonna see a resolve anytime soon.
The American Dream or world peace, you choose.
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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care to be a bit more precise? Coz 'making a difference between christians' is the kind of statement that really MEANS nothing but has the potential to create a row.
Considered the possibility they were:
a) freed
b) paid for?
You think anybody cares whether they're christain or not? Does that make them special in any way?
Is every westerner christian? 
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boto43
Joined: Nov 23, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Trnava-Nitra,Pardubice CSSR
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You don't have all infos. Otherwise you wouldn't ask these questions.
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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which is obviously why i ask you to EXPLAIN A BIT FURTHER
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anish
Joined: Jul 19, 2003
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From: India / England
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Indonesia? large tourism industry (well at leats prior to the bombings?)
Egypt? Also tourism?
Agricultural? Spices? Just to name a few 
I give you northern Ireland. A fine example of mutual Christian AND UK based intolerance.
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@Vlammetje
Tourism, I might agree, but agriculture and spices? I don't think so. What is the position of the middle eastern countries among the rice, wheat, maize, barley, vegetables, fruits (except dates) exporting countries?
And about Northern Ireland if you look deep into it its not really religion its mainly politics, its the ego of the British and Irish governments the reason for the problems there. I know protestants in Northern Ireland who want NI to actually join the Irish republic and would like to call themselves as Irish rather than British.
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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ah..... and I see that being intolerant in name of politics is of course a MUCH better reason to kill the 'enemy' then intolerance 'in the name of god'
So the IRA and ETA have a better reason for placing bombs than any fundamentalist group of whichever religious background.
And it's OK for ppl in Belfast to shoot eachother whilst holding a bible because it has a POLITICAL background and not a religious one.
THANK YOU! Thank you so much!
I see the world so much clearer now 
I was misled by the obvious misconception that being intolerant on ANY ground still is: being intolerant. I mistakenly believed that any form of violence is despicable.
Wow. I see the world in a new light now! 
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anish
Joined: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: India / England
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Its human nature that they fight its been happening from the begining of the world we just can't stop it but the point I made earlier is that muslims seem to fight with people all over the world be it with the israelites, the americans, the Indians, the russians or the serbs and you also have to look into the gravity of the fights, about 3000 people died (mostly soldiers and terrorists) in Northern Ireland in the past 30 years and how many died on September 11th alone? It is one thing fighting with each other and another thing fighting against the world and killing innocents (blewing up civilian airplanes and buildings of no strategic importance).
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batesie
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: London, UK
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i second that anish..
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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but killing innocents is not really the domain of any specific reliogon i it? It's the madman's area... wheter he is Bin Laden or the crazy fook who put Sarin into the Japanese subway system.....
It's not based on religion it's based on blood-thirst... nothing else. And as much as you may not like it, this feature is HUMAN..... not bred by religion... it's in our genes. centuries of war over nothing should tell us that much.
Religion is just another excuse to hate. Just as fear is an excuse to hate. religion is also a perfect way of instilling fear in the human being. Nothing frightens us mere mortals more than the thought of no longer having 'god on our side'
Once upon a time the 'good christians' set out on the crusades.... and brought violence because they thought they had the 'god given right' to do so.
How much has really changed in the centuries that followed?
Today.... the crusaders claim a 'god given right' to 'liberate' and force their own economic system of 'freedom' and capitalism on the rest of the world
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anish
Joined: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: India / England
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I totally agree that the crusades were wrong and it was even more wrong to assume that they have the god given right to kill others.
But that is exactly what is happening in the muslim world now. Rather this religion teaches the people that they will get so many virgins if they kill infidels (strange promise) and irrespective of how they lived in this world if they become a martyr they will go to Heaven and all those rubbish which helps creating these suicide bombers who want to kill for Allah.
The one thing I don't understand is that they always say that Allah is all powerful and supreme then why do they think this all powerful Allah needs their help in killing the infidels, couldn't he kill them with the snap of a finger without the help of these mere mortals?
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Vlammetje
Joined: Mar 01, 2003
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From: Den Haag
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this is what amazes me in 'believers' world wide. same goes for christianity... if God created this world and is all about goodness and love... would he really allow for things to get as messed up as they are today??
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soulframe
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 225
From: London
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On 2004-04-14 16:22:15, anish wrote:
I totally agree that the crusades were wrong and it was even more wrong to assume that they have the god given right to kill others.
But that is exactly what is happening in the muslim world now. Rather this religion teaches the people that they will get so many virgins if they kill infidels (strange promise) and irrespective of how they lived in this world if they become a martyr they will go to Heaven and all those rubbish which helps creating these suicide bombers who want to kill for Allah.
The one thing I don't understand is that they always say that Allah is all powerful and supreme then why do they think this all powerful Allah needs their help in killing the infidels, couldn't he kill them with the snap of a finger without the help of these mere mortals?
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You seem to be a bit brainwashed by what you see on the tv or in the media. If you bothered to do any research you would realise that these 'terrorists' that blow up planes and kill innocent civilians are not the only representitives of Islam. You seem to think that all muslims think and act like idiots like OBL. The Quran does NOT tell us to go and fly planes in to buildings or strap explosives to ourselves and go off and blow up a bus full of kids. The majority of us muslims in the world live the 'normal' 9-5 life, have a family, work and just happen to practice a religion that the western media portrays as barbaric. Whenever a so called 'Muslim' does something bad, the media makes dure that the audience knows that he did it in God's name. Open your eyes mate, read between the lines. We aint all terrorists.
Just remember that most of these 'terrorists', were TRAINED BY THE USA, remember the photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussien in the 80's?
P.E.A.C.E (Proper Education Always Corrects Errors)
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Sammy_boy
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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@Vlamm:
I often wonder what the world would be like with no religion - peaceful, no pointless conflicts because 'you don't believe in my god' or anything like that..... but knowing human nature, we'd find something else to have pointless conflicts over - like hair colour, for example, or just plain money.
Religion is a form of control, it keeps people in line for fear of been hit by a big bolt of lightning, going to hell, etc. etc. It can also be moulded to suit certain sub-religions and faiths, for example the founder of the Jehova's Witnesses apparently had a passage inserted in their version of the bible forbidding blood transfusions because he personally disagreed with it.
How I wish we could all just get on, celebrate our differences instead of fighting wars over it, and enjoy the diversity that being human brings. Without 'God' dictating to us how to do it or how to treat non-believers.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
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anish
Joined: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: India / England
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Quote:
| You seem to be a bit brainwashed by what you see on the tv or in the media. If you bothered to do any research you would realise that these 'terrorists' that blow up planes and kill innocent civilians are not the only representitives of Islam. You seem to think that all muslims think and act like idiots like OBL. The Quran does NOT tell us to go and fly planes in to buildings or strap explosives to ourselves and go off and blow up a bus full of kids. The majority of us muslims in the world live the 'normal' 9-5 life, have a family, work and just happen to practice a religion that the western media portrays as barbaric. Whenever a so called 'Muslim' does something bad, the media makes dure that the audience knows that he did it in God's name. Open your eyes mate, read between the lines. We aint all terrorists.
Just remember that most of these 'terrorists', were TRAINED BY THE USA, remember the photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussien in the 80's?
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@soulframe
I tottally agree that all muslims are not terrorists and there are people who live normal lives. In fact being from a country with the second highest population of Muslims in the world, I had muslim friends while in school, college and universities and many of them are still very good friends. But I must say I am angry (you can infer that from my posts in this thread) at the fact that the religious leaders of Islam (atleast the ones who get publicity) are spreading hate and possibly wrong interpretations of the quran, which in turn make young people suicide bombers and killers of innocents. To understand the gravity of the situation talk to any of the young muslims around or read the posts by the muslims in this thread to see how much hate they have for the western world and people. And this is the work of people like that one eyed one handed rogue Imam of Finnsbury park mosque in UK (I forgot his name) This is what I hate because that makes the world a dangerous place to live. I saw a BBC documentry about this guy and in it he tells the people in Yemen 'these whites are cows and that they have the right to shoot them when they are in Yemen' think about that this guy is staying in the UK and this is what he preaches. As you said he might not be telling facts from the quran but then why the Muslim intelligensia is not opposing it?
I am not infering for once that what ever America is doing is right or that Plastenians don't want a country of their own, but what I am saying is that blewing up airplanes or killing a few innocent israelies would'nt give them peace or a country. Just assume if you are a 6 foot tall rugby playing bloke and I am a 3 foot tall kid would it make sense if I hit you instead if I don't do anything you might feel pity on me and stop hurting me or your frinds might feel pity on me and put pressure on you to stop hitting me. It might be a poor analogy, what I am saying is this suicide bombings or hijackings or abducting journalists wouldn't do any good for the palestinian or for that matter muslim cause.
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Knowledge is two fold. Knowing a subject or knowing where to find out about a subject. I rely on both... That is why I come here. 
[ This Message was edited by: anish on 2004-04-14 16:33 ] |
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Posted: 2004-04-14 14:36
