Posted by Rotavap
Got this reply after confirming if P8/P9 flight mode is acceptable inside aircraft.
------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your email dated 17 November 2003.
May I take the opportunity to explain that the use of mobile or mobile cum PDAs phones (including the SonyEriccson P800) are currently not allowed on board our aircraft due to safety consideration. While I understand that some of these devices can be switched to flight mode, thus minimizing or having negligible impact on flight instruments, there is no guarantee though that the device may be inadvertently turned to mobile mode. As the safety of our passengers is of utmost priority, we prefer to take the safer option and we trust that you can understand the position that we take. We are sorry if our cabin crew did not explain this to you clearly.
Mr *, please be assured that our Engineers are constantly keeping abreast with the latest technological developments and we will review our requirements from time to time as the need arises.
Thank you for checking with us, Mr *. We look forward to welcoming you on board our next flights soon.
Yours sincerely
Jason FooCJ
Manager Customer Services
Posted by masseur
which airline was that from? I certainly had no problems on BA or Qantas in feb/mar/apr that I had the P800. Indeed the few flight attendants who queried me about using a mobile phone were more than happy when I showed them the flight mode screen and were actually quite impressed that it should have that feature!
_________________
...Unless I'm very much mistaken
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2003-11-18 08:20 ]
Posted by Rotavap
Its Singapore airlines. I've tried reaching SonyEricsson but they havent replied yet.
Posted by masseur
I'm sure that all
will say is that the airlines make their own policy.
Posted by Vlammetje
Which in the end is true.
As 'flight mode' is not exactly standard on phones, you simply cannot expect everybody on every single airline to know about it.
And then there is the considerable issue of other passengers that may see you with yuour phone that may also not know about the flight mode...... they may cause havoc insisting that you must switch it off.... or worse yet..... switching on their own phones 'because that gentleman does it too'....
And finally and airline does make it's own policy of wqhat's desirable on board of their planes. Much like 'no-smoking' there may be a 'no-phone-like-devices' rule in place.
Choose a different airline or just rgin and bear it
Posted by Scally_cadet
Its just the airline being lazy. If there engineers are so up to date, why the hell do they not understand that the only reason for flight mode is so the phone can be use on a plane!
Posted by Rotavap
But on the contrary, I think regulatory agencies like FCC wouldnt have approved SE claiming this feature unless there was some sort of tests to support the flight mode option.
Posted by D_G
its called being updated about technologies and obviously, singapore airline is not updated and maybe thats one of the reaosons why its on decline
j/k
they r stupid though. do u think all those people who r travelling everyday around the wrold dont happend to have their phones switched on by mistake?? come on..give me a break..i forgot my phone ON 3 months ago on a 8 hours flight from south africa to dubai. Dont worry guys, the plane didnt crash for some signal interfering by my P800..lol..i bet there r millions of travellers every day who actually forget to turn their phones off.
Some of those airline staff need some training on latest technologies,however!
Posted by Vlammetje
It's not the airline staff. They are trained to work by certain protocols, not only regarding mobile phone, but also regarding traveller behaviour. they have their instructions.
Have you ever been on a plane with a fuming passenger coz another passenger had a device in flight mode? I have, and I promise you it is not a fun moment when 1 passenger wants to 'shut that thing down myself' on board a crowded plane.
As long as the use of such devices is not wide-spread, there are more safety issues than just the signal from the phone.
Posted by masseur
Actually. I have also been using an ipaq 5450 on my weekly flights since Christmas. It has a small wifi antennae on top which could make it look like a mobile phone, and I have never been questioned once with that one which thinking about it now is very strange!
Posted by hurny
Flight mode on my 3650 requires me to take out my SIM card and then start up in flight mode. How on earth could there be any chance of it emitting a signal? There isnt.
Is it the same for the p800/p900?
Posted by Vlammetje
Nope... afaik you don't need to remove the sim. Am I right?
Posted by pachy
On a slightly different note (& a very seriouus one) do you remember that on some of the "911" flights the passengers were making "Final calls" to their loved ones on their mobiles, how must that have felt, i can't imagine.
Airlines are going through sensitive times, if they don't want you to use a device, don't use it, for whatever reason, best not question it.
Posted by masseur
no, you don't remove the SIM. its just a menu option
Posted by hurny
Oh ok- Well, I'll remove the SIM card and keep it on my lap. Then I can play games etc... without a problem. Cool
Posted by prodjsxb
Well if Flight Mode shuts down both bluetooth and the phone dialer itself, so that the phone can not transmit radio signals... then why would it interfere with devices on board???... hell an electric razor probably would cause more interference!!! damn facist bastards!!!
Posted by RollerBoySE
This whole thing about not to use mobile phones i aircraft is a hoax. In the early nineties Ericsson and SAS made an extensive study with elaborate field tests and found absolutely no interference with onboard instruments. At the same time SAS had started to roll out onboard creditcard phones in their aircraft so the report was classified since obviously they wanted as much traffic as possible from the creditcard phones (at ridicously high prices). So stop worrying that your phone might interfer with the plane.
Posted by masseur
Here is the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) ruling on this subject and here is their research summary page on the topic.
Vodafone participated in a test withe CAA earlier this year and the conclusion was that mobile phones should still be banned.
the following was taken from this PCWorld article which also mentions that SAS specifically allow the use of phones equipped with flight mode such as Nokia 9210i and
P800
.....
Airlines should continue their ban on the use of mobile phones on board aircraft because of possible interference with navigation and communication equipment, according to a study published Friday by the U.K. Civil Aviation Authority.
A series of tests exposing a set of aircraft avionic systems to simulated cell phone transmissions revealed various adverse effects on the equipment's performance, CAA said in a statement. Although the equipment allowed a margin above the "original certification criteria for interference susceptibility," the margin wasn't sufficient to protect against potential cell phone interference under worst-case conditions, the authority said.
Vodafone Group participated in the tests.
Suffering a Setback
The study could deal a blow to some airlines, such as Scandinavian Airlines System, which hope some day to offer passengers the opportunity to use their mobile phones in the air in much the same way they're accustomed to on the ground.
Cell phone use has long been banned on airplanes, while the use of many other electrical devices such as notebook computers is banned on take-off and final approach. But passengers, particularly businesspeople, are interested in using their phones on planes to keep in touch with their offices and customers.
In the U.S., the Federal Aviation Administration bans the use of cell phones on airplanes because, like the CAA, it too is concerned about wireless calls interfering with a plane's navigation system.
Safety Concerns
From March 1996 to December 2002, CAA recorded 35 aircraft safety-related incidents that were linked to cell phones, the authority said.
The reported interference incidents included interrupted communications due to noise in the flight crew's headphones, according to the study.
CAA recommends a continued ban on mobile phone use by passengers in aircraft and urges airlines to introduce safety procedures that ensure phones are switched off.
Whether the CAA study will encourage airlines to prohibit the use of mobile phones with flight-safe features remains to be seen.
Flight-Safe Mode
Last week, SAS announced a policy for allowing passengers during flights to use all mobile phone functions, such as calendars, address books, and reading e-mail, that require no signal transmission. To do so, passengers require phones equipped with a flight-safe mode, which essentially prevents a handset from sending or receiving signals required to make phone calls.
Nokia with its 9210i Communicator and Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications with its P800 smart phone are among the first manufacturers to offer handsets with the flight-safe feature.
"We continue to recommend to our customers that they should turn off their mobile phones when inside aircraft and should only turn them back on if equipped with the flight-safe mode," said Nokia spokesperson Damian Stathonikos. "But we understand that some airlines prefer passengers not to use their mobile phones at all."
_________________
...Unless I'm very much mistaken
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2003-11-18 11:42 ]
Posted by pachy
The airlines are well aware that there is only an extremely small risk of problems with using phones, same as the ban on mobile use in roadside filling stations, but at the end of the day, its THEIR rule & they can tell you to wear a clown outfit while flying with them if they want, it's up to you if you want to use the service you must do it on their terms.
Maybe that guy in the Macdonalds ads comes over by sea, ...i don't know.
Posted by haydnw
| Quote: |
|
My Siemens SL45 had flight-mode and I bought that nearly three years ago!
Posted by masseur
so did the nokia 9110 communicator was before that even
Posted by fijbert
wasnt this already discussed?
anywayz
in that other thread I am talkin about
someone said that they actually launched a plane with every seat containing a cellphone turned on, and nothing happened
I've been asked to turn off my calculator... so consider urselves lucky that u didnt hv that bit... I mean stewardess
Posted by scotsboyuk
Although I do find it very inconvenient not to be able to use my P900 (or P800 as the case once was) on a flight I don't think that its the end of the world. I use my P900 for busniness mostly and really time spent in an airplane could be spent more productively than drinking the free champagne and eating the free food, I just can't stand all that time wasting:) The worst part is that they have started to include massages in-flight too! Give me spreadsheets, documents that need read and speeches to prepare any day of the week
Posted by tom_riddle
that incident happened to me also when i travelled to bangkok using lufthanza. they asked me to turn off my fone, even though i showed them that it's on a flight mode.
since that i don't want to cause any arguments and be the cause of the delay, i had no choice but to turn it off.
Posted by fijbert
I wld hv lied and said it wasnt a phone
Posted by Comte Zero
I understand airlines policy, but it's always boring when flight-crew ask me to switch off my pda and my walkman during take off/landing. Come on, It's non-communicate device :-(
Posted by hurny
Is it called 'flight' mode for the very reason that you can use it during a FLIGHT, or for some other reason?
Posted by scotsboyuk
For some other reason.
Posted by hurny
Really? Surely not...
Posted by PTM
I can't get a signal in town, so there ain't a hope in hell 35,000ft up!
The following is taken from,
"P900/P908 White Paper, October 2003, Sony Ericsson, Page 73 -74"
Interesting sections to this post are from, 'Certification' onward, but I included the rest beacuse I couldn't be botherd cutting it.
Flight Mode
What is Flight Mode?
GSM or Bluetooth radio signals from a mobile phone may be harmful to the safe operation of an aircraft.
Flight mode is a special mode of the P900/P908 in which the phone does not transmit such signals, but
allows the user to read and write information resident in the PDA part of the device.
How it works
1) Ordering the phone into or out of Flight Mode can be done in two different ways:
• From the Power Button
• From the Status bar signal strength icon
2) When going into Flight Mode
• The radio signal strength indicator, RSSI changes into a red circular Stop Symbol
• The radio transmitters for both GSM and Bluetooth are switched off
• The operator name is changed into "Flight Mode"
3) While in Flight Mode:
• The phone does not emit any intended radio signals
• Unintentional signals caused by the electronics in the phone are at a similar level to other consumer
electronic devices and do not exceed levels stated in FCC part 15, or EN550022.
• The phone can not by itself leave the Flight Mode.
4) When leaving the Flight Mode:
• The red circular Stop Symbol once again changes into the normal radio signal strength indicator, RSSI
• The radio transmitters for both GSM and Bluetooth are switched on
• The text "Flight Mode" is changed into an operator name
Certification
The above facts are hereby stated and certified by us, the manufacturer, Sony Ericsson Mobile
Communications AB, located in Stockholm, Sweden. There is no certificate from any independent
certification authority.
Flight attendants
It is important that flight attendants learn how to recognize:
• What phones is Flight Mode capable
• That the phone is in the Flight Mode stage
We recommend that no devices be switched on during take-off and landing.
Regulatory
Currently, the FAA has issued a document, USE OF PORTABLE ELECTRONIC DEVICES ABOARD
AIRCRAFT, stipulating how airlines should handle these devices.
The document is due for a make-over, probably by the end of 2003.
The EUROCAE (European Organization for Civil Aviation Equipment) released a document WG-58 (Working
Group-58) that outlines tests and PED evaluation aboard European aircraft.
Standardization
It is the opinion of Sony Ericsson, that:
• Flight Mode ought to be standardized. Suitable bodies for this may be the FAA, IATA etc. Both the user
interface and the procedures should be standardized.
• No new radio emission standards need to be set up for Flight Mode. Instead, existing standards should
be applied; e. g. FCC part 15, or ETSI EN550022.
Posted by SCORPIONKING1982
| Quote: |
On 2003-11-20 00:49:42, PTM wrote: |
thats a good point, can u actually get a signal all the way up on a plane flying over the ocean?!
Posted by fabrizio
Clearly over the ocean, there is not coverage, unless you are using an Iridium phone, and you can get the pilot to possibly slant the plane a bit to the side so you can get a clear view of the LEO sats...
As for while flying over the ground, theoretically you could get coverage at cruising altitude (35K feet), since a standard cellular antenna has a radius of coverage of about 10Kms.(OK so you are 605 meters short)
However for optimization of the position of the antenna (parallel to the ground), you do not have coverage and shortly after take-off you will lose the signal.
[ This Message was edited by: fabrizio on 2003-11-20 01:10 ]
Posted by gajetguy
Hi gang, bin reading your thread here and would like to add my two cents worth.
Regardless of what you want to be the case, as you have said, it is up to the airline whether you can use ANYTHING on board an aircraft. It's their plane - their conditions, as you say, if you don't like it fly another airline.
I speak as a supervisor on board Qantas. No electronic devices are permitted to be used during take off and landing. pretty logical when you think about it, even though the electronic signal created may be very small there is always a possibility of it upsetting an instrument and thats what those guys in the cockpit base their decisions on. Remember Voyager!!! Only the older ones among us would remember it. The signal emitted by that is so miniscule that it takes specialist equipment to read it, but we are still receiving it after all these years and from millions of miles away. We are aware of flight mode equipment but hey! the company says NO ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT DURING TAKEOFF AND LANDING ie from seatbelt sign on to seatbelt sign off !!! As a matter of interest we (read I) do not switch any of the aircraft electronic systems on until cruise is reached and it is switched off at 20,000ft on descent. Also the phone and email system is switched on and off at the same time although this is a satellite system and works on different technology and frequencies. Obviously that system is reasonably safe as the cockpit uses that form of communication all the time.
Hope this helps, I know that for my part I would rather be safe than sorry because someone wanted to play a bloody game while the plane was landing.
Cheers to all
Posted by hurny
No-one has said that they were using them during take off and landing.
I am flying Quantas in 1 and a half weeks- I wont be using my phone during take off or landing, but ALL the time in between
(with my sim card on my lap of course)
Posted by nogami
Speaking of stuff on your lap in a plane... A number of laptop computers also include WiFi networking modules now too (especially Apple laptops), as well as bluetooth transceivers. Who wants to bet that many laptop users don't bother turning off the transmitters in their machines when they're on a flight? Additionally, who wants to bet that NOBODY bothers them about it (unless the airline has a "no laptops at any time" rule, which sounds like a receipe for "going out of business").
(the clue could be when everyone in the cabin starts playing multiplayer games together
[ This Message was edited by: nogami on 2003-11-20 08:09 ]
Posted by hurny
Posted by scotsboyuk
I fly quite a bit each year (20 - 30 times) and I find a big difference in the attitude between the different classes on a plane. I usually fly business or first class (First on BA is amazing!) and the flight crew are so polite and helpful and let me keep my P800 on in flight mode.
I recently had to travel economy and the attitude was so much different, they demanded in no uncertain terms that I get my P800 off completely. It was the same airline!
Apparently the old saying of 'money talks' is true. Its quite shocking the difference in service, I was quite apalled actually.
Posted by hurny
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe that particular flight attendant was a Nokia fan? Its possible she/he just didnt want you using the P800.
Posted by Rocky88
Here's what I got from Cathay Pacific of Hong Khong:
-------------------------
Dear Mr. Sucker,
Thank you for your stupid email.
For the friggin security reasons, all kind of mobile phone cannot be used at any time during your flight (including your P900 you rich bastard...). Please accept our apologies. For the inconvenience caused, please suck my asshole.
Yours 'sincerely',
Daniel "Small" Dick
Cathay Atlantic Airways
------------------------------------------
NOTE: This is a real email from Cathay Pacific, just slightly doctored to suit the attitude of the Esatorians.
Posted by CrackerJack
@scotsboyuk
Welcome to the real world.
Posted by hurny
Good onya Rocky- that was tops!
Posted by scotsboyuk
@CrackerJack
Are you implying that I am not in touch with the common man? That perhaps I some sort of snob? Perhaps a foppish cad who cares little for the plight of 'ordinary' folks?
Nothing could be further from the truth, I am a man of the people. Just the other day I stopped and spoke to a chap in the street, he wanted the time, I told him that it was half past two. So you see, I can be in touch with the avergae joe.
I had better wrap this up now, I have to go give the footman a damned good hiding for not chilling my afternoon caviar and champers properley.
Posted by BlackBauer24
No flight mode, no flight!
Posted by jimbobskibobski
HOw do i start flight mode, should i start it up before entering the plane and which menu is it in
Posted by nauti_n_cool
Click on the signal strength icon on the bottom left with flip open.
You will get an option there to switch to flight mode. Want my suggestion dude, take that flip off when travelling!! People may not even realise that you have something called a mobile phone
I could easily shoot videos of landings and takeoffs when I was travelling
Posted by Sony Ericsson Indonesia
is there a flight mode in the 6600, and how do you turn on the flight mode for the 3650
Posted by masseur
ok, well this thread is a couple of months old but now relevant to me as I have been having trouble the last few weeks on BA.
I was asked to turn off the P900 three times in the last 3 weeks so I decided to contact BA customer relations for a confirmation of their policy and it seems they simply do not allow any phones to be switched on from engine startup to engine shutdown regardless of whether they have flight mode or not.
The argument seems to be "how do the crew know the phone is not switched on" but my response was how do they know anybodies phone is not switched on?
I also pointed out how nonsense this was when I have my ipaq with bluetooth and wifi and my laptop with the same and they never get questioned, but that seemed irrelevant to them.
They just don't seem to have a clue and are living in the dark ages.
edit: oh, I forgot to say "aaaarrrggghhh!"
_________________
...Unless I'm very much mistaken
[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2004-02-06 12:16 ]
Posted by Lordmike
@masseur
I think they will learn that "flight mode" can be accepted.
Some years back you could take over a boeing 747 (or any other plane) using just a laptop (with word or excel like in Dilbert
). How? They don't know and could never prove it. They where just scared.
My bet is that the planes electronics could do more damage to our electronics then vice versa.
A plane can endure riding through electrically charged storms, which is in my book a lot worse then a mobile phone.
Just some thoughts...
Posted by masseur
yeah I recall those laptop times but its been 3 years (or more) since I had a Nokia 9110 and you would have thought they would have got their act together by now.
Further more I am a private pilot myself and fly aircraft as large as a cessna 310 with some of the latest avionics and while not on the same level as the 737 I fly back and forth every week to Frankfurt I have never seen any anomolies in the instruments while using my phone prior to landing to let the missus know I am nearly there. Mind you, even I turn it off when flying in IMC (in bad weather)... just in case. but this is all not relevant when we are talking about flight mode anyway!
I just get the feeling for being 'caught' so much lately that they may be specifically looking for them now as I had no problem prior to that or last year with the P800
Posted by Lordmike
Yeah, sure sounds like they are looking for P800/P900 and probably Nokia Communicator just to annoy people. I don't think they check PDA and other handhelds which you can use as phones though.
They are too dumb to understand that "flight mode" is safe.
Or just too precacious.