Posted by max_wedge
I never thought the day would come, but SE has embraced the Windows Mobile ecosystem!
Yay for all us WM heads.
Will WM last?
Will SE suck up to Symbian Foundation (SF)! Yeah right
Thoughts?
Posted by masseur
lol, our own little corner of Esato
of course WM will last... whether it will last with SE is another question but I feel that SE will realise they have alot less problems in the WM platform. I was just chatting with an SE support guy who said they can't remember when a phone launch had so few calls in the first week!
anyway, I wasn't sure about the need for a separate forum but now I can see it, I'm happy
Posted by jcwhite_uk
As it is under the Sony Ericsson does that mean it is for discussing
WM devices (currently only the X1) or all WM devices?
Posted by max_wedge
Yeah, WM will last, I meant will it last with SE. tbh I can't see many alternatives atm, despite some of the Nokia fans around here praying for a Nokia/SE hybrid.
I think the separate forum should prove very useful. Especially with a lot of SE users who will be new to WM and be needing a lot of help. Just as your SE colleague has noted.
WM is a bit obtuse to new users, but it's the sort of thing that once people get familiar with it they really lap it up.
SE, along with Samsung, may just achieve a coup for WM that other OEM's have failed to do so far: bring it into the mainstream. Samsung and SE are in the top 5 market leadership. HTC is nowhere.
Posted by masseur
@jcwhite_uk, as its an SE forum it should be used for SE product(s) in the same way the SE symbian forum is used only for SE chat
Posted by max_wedge
I'm sure we'll find enough to discuss.
At first I was a bit sceptical about SE taking on WM, but now that I'm used to the idea I'm pretty happy about it.
Afterall it does bring together the BEST phone OEM with the BEST mobile OS
Posted by Aware
So we're gonna need an
Android forum by next year too then??.....
@Max, people are already testing SF devices, or Nok/
SE hybrids, as you put it, whether they're wanted or not - and apparently, the SE ones look/feel akin to UIQ, even though they're not at all......
Regardless, nice to see a wm forum on Esato...I do wonder just how much busier XDA devs have been over the last week(and will be)......
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-10-28 14:12:32, Aware wrote:
So we're gonna need an
Android forum by next year too then??.....
@Max, people are already testing SF devices, or Nok/
SE hybrids, as you put it, whether they're wanted or not - and apparently, the SE ones look/feel akin to UIQ, even though they're not at all......
I'm sure they are. They will be hedging their bets. Time will tell. I don't have a problem with it, as long as 1. SF remains truly open source ie: SF members aren't dictated to by Nokia, and 2. SE retains their own design and UI philosophy.
btw, SE don't have an android phone as yet
but you can always post in Other Manufacturers
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-10-28 13:18 ]
Posted by Aware
Yeah, thanks for that...
...as yet, maybe......
SF - 2) is pretty definite, I'd say, whereas 1), as you pointed out, depends how Nokia work......
As for WM...well then, you up for an X1 linux port(dribble
)?? Or not so heavy on WM tweaks??
Posted by max_wedge
On 2008-10-28 14:40:19, Aware wrote:
As for WM...well then, you up for an X1 linux port(dribble
)?? Or not so heavy on WM tweaks??
Oh, I luuuv WM tweaks
I've looked into linux on WM but there is no usable port as yet. I've also looked at Win95 (not for any useful reason - just to see it done) but it also is unusable.
There are working DOS emulators
Posted by Angello
X1 is just awesome
Posted by PeterKay
WM - nice addition to a great forum
Posted by gtr83
During the moment X1 was under development, WM was the only obvious choice. Android or SF was too young or even nonexistent then. But seeing its specs we have to be honest, the only thing that can be compared to X1 is its own twin brother (or sister, if you like
) Touch Pro.
Posted by ares
its the Apocalypse i tell you!! its coming!
Posted by tranced
As i wont handle a x1 for a while let me say: weeeeeeeeeee
winmo devices
Posted by Creid
my plan - Get X1 asap (rang o2 every day for a month now!) then get SEs' first SF beast. happy days
Posted by groovepeppy
Just like the title says,
"Warm Welcome to Windows Mobile !"
Yaaaaay......
Posted by Supa_Fly
I think Max is criticism Symbian Foundation long before its even had a start.
many fail to realise why S60 and Symbian have had such strength on the worldwide stage for so long. Many have said its former iterations was its greatest weakness; fragmentation - or varying API's and GUI's. This being unified and applications being supported and eventually being recoded to embrace the new change actually give it its strength. UIQ although pronounced 'officially' dead with SE - we've all seen it pronounced dead for years really, it did have some greatness and efficient menu's that'll augment an already strong OS and refine - what I think is a horrible menu GUI in S60 5th Edition for touch - not the entire menu; just its implementation for Touch bothers me.
Just remember UIQ and S60 are not the ONLY Symbian based platforms; there are another 3 that are lesser known but just as signifant or more significant because of the languages and interfaces they support > more strongly with than WM.
Sure I cannot get unique emulators or old platform support like AS/400/600 for 3250/3270 session interface - but many company's that still use these for support in Internet Explorer via Java (not Microsoft Java), don't support direct emulation connection for single applications on WM.
WM greatest strength is compatibility with old emulation and application code base - is also its greatest weakness from a coders standpoint. WM7 should've debuted earlier this year and again delayed. Licensing hasn't gotten cheaper to use WM but also, coding for applications isn't too tough either. Unless you being using Microsoft newer .NET. Not ALL of these WM devices in the past few years WM 6/6.1 based can use .NET installations/hacks and access applications or sites that rely heavily on this code.
Now I'm sure many of you can come up with intelligent rebuttals of what S60 cannot do either (remember Python, Ruby, C++, and Flash are all codes it supports for applications). I'm just stating this for WM.
Now I'm hoping SE doesn't get screwed with its innovations like Sony did with Palm OS just 6yrs ago. Those of us old enough and in the 'device' game long enough know to what I'm refering to. Or was it longer than 6yrs ago.
has already officially stated that their investigating Andriod - to which currently I care nothing for - and committed to both WM and Symbian Foundation to which long ago I hoped S60 or UIQ would debut on this Xperia type device or similarly spec'd device.
The REAL question is ... how many more unique design's does
have up its sleave and can they fully compete with HTC without having HTC build their devices for them taking some of their R&D dollars away.
Posted by jalal
I never thought I'd want a Windows anything. Now I'm lusting over this phone.
Posted by max_wedge
I'm not criticising at all. I'm just saying Nokia could end up controlling the symbian foundation to it's own benefit. This would give them an unfair advantage as they could direct SF development to suit their own choice of hardware (and contracts with hardware vendors) and OS designs that suit their own idea of what the end user wants.
SE in the past have demonstrated great resistance to being locked into proprietary arrangements.
IF the Symbian Foundation develops the way Nokia's current hyperbole indicates, then hope remains that SE and other OEM's will end up with a true collaborative OS venture. If not they could end up having Nokia dictate the playing field and the direction of play (with SE and other OEM's facing into the sun). This would bring about a homogenisation of handset design across the industry that would mean less choice for the end user, and ultimately less innovation.
So imho I encourage SE to remain committed to doing things their own way as much as possible. If having WM in their stable helps them retain some independence of the Symbian Foundation this is a good thing.
It's not that being reliant on Bill Gates is much better but it wi;ll give SE some leverage against SF.
If SF turns out to be truly open source, and SE can develop the core OS to their own needs, then I expect SE will fully embace SF and we will certainly end up with UIQ II (second era). It may have a different name, but I expect many of the philosophies of UIQ will be retained.
What I don't expect will happen is for SE to use an OS that effectively mimicks with very little difference the same OS and end user features of the Nokia branded version of the SF OS. And I will add this quote to my promised "I'm not as smart as a fifth grader" thread they do
Posted by anonymuser
I think the timing of SE's move to WM is a little odd. There's no mistaking the fact that for all its strengths, WM in its current form is ageing badly, and in dire need of an update. While its benefitted from some of the associated glamour of being touchscreen based in this post-iPhone world, it also looks and feels old in comparison. At the same time, we have all-new developments in the form of Android, and Nokia's S60 Touch (or should that simply be Symbian Touch?), Blackberry's new touch enabled OS, and major hardware leaps expected in the next year with whole new generation of mobile processors becoming available - it really makes you wonder whether the X1 is the start of a long "WM SE" line, or just a one-off to fill the gap left between the death of UIQ, and whichever direction SE take next.
Personally, I think the X1 is something of a dead end. Although it may be all new to SE and typical SE consumers, the technology (and the OS) of the X1 is really just a small evolution at the end of a very long and fading line, which can be traced right back in a pretty straight line to the first Pocket PCs. That whole architecture has to change if it's to be at all competitive with the much newer thinking at the core of the iPhone and its ilk, and Microsoft are well aware of that, but they're also pushing back the release of WM7, giving Apple, Google, and the rest much more time to overtake.
SE know the X1 isn't going to look shiny and new for much longer; they need to be working on its replacement already, but without any sign of WM7 to run on it...
Posted by mobman
boo hissss! Get out of our WinMo forum! Your not welcome here! Iphone fanboy! boo hisss!
:mobman backs Boinng out of the door using a broom:
[ This Message was edited by: mobman on 2008-10-29 19:35 ]
Posted by max_wedge
He is just as entitled as anyhone to post his opinion. I don't always agree with Boinng but he is a valuable contributor to discussions around Esato. Please don't discourage contribution
@boinng, the questions is will MS keep just enough development on WM to keep it a viable player in the phone OS market. I think the strong app support that WM has, and the strong though small following it has, will keep it viable even if it's always behind iphone in terms of flashiness of interface. WM is clunky compared to iphone, and even compared to s60. But it also has a charm to it that many people do like.
There is also the undeniable appeal to windows users of the "somewhat" familiar interface. And Windows users are a MASSIVE chunk of the computer market.
I agree with your appraisal of the different OS's, but I think WM survival doesn't only come down to black and white analysis of what the best OS is, but also to the more emotional appeal it has for many.
However, that emotional appeal, while helping WM survive, will also consign WM to the same limited marketshare it has now. If MS wants WM to become as common as Symbian, they need to seriously address some of the usability issues of WM (for example, native finger touch)
Posted by Residentevil
As I used a WM device over two years ago for a short time I was not enjoying it very much. But I am open to a new try with the X1 when it will be available here in the US. I hope it is highly customizable with themes and icons. I just need those colours.
Posted by ofiaich
Hi!
I am a TyTn II user and will get either the X1 or the HD Touch HD.
I like my TyTn II very much, but wish the battery life was better.
I was wondering what people felt their must have apps' are !
Ofiaich
Posted by anonymuser
On 2008-10-29 20:34:46, mobman wrote:
boo hissss! Get out of our WinMo forum! Your not welcome here! Iphone fanboy! boo hisss!
The funny thing is, a year ago I ditched SE and "welcomed" Windows Mobile to Esato when I got an HTC Tytn II, I was immediately labelled a WinMo fanboy! Now I'm getting flack on Esato for not loving WM so much - strange times!
At the end of the day, unlike some of you I've been using WM for a full year in a phone not a million miles away from the X1 (same OEM, same form factor, similar processor, same connectivity, exact same WM version), and I'm very familiar with both its good and bad qualities, so I'm not really a fanboy of anything either way. Yes I have an iPhone now, we're both very happy together and we may be getting married, but that doesn't mean to say I'm blind to what's good about good old WinMo.
WinMo is a great business OS. If you work with an Exchange calendar and email, there's no better client for it (the iPhone does the basics in a very pleasing way, but there are definitely some compromises involved). Having Word and Excel built in can be invaluable for work too, and all told WinMo is the perfect companion to a Windows based work PC or network. But - and here's the big but - it always comes with some pain attached. The UI - the real UI beneath the Panels, or TouchFlo, or whatever other eye-candy the OEMs use to distract you at the start - really does get infuriating after a while - so fiddly, so inconsistent, so ugly - it does the job, but you won't thank it for it.
If you make the effort - and WinMo requires effort - then it will do an awful lot for you, and it won't be too unreliable or too slow... but it all becomes pretty joyless after a while. The effort starts to wear thin, the returns don't quite cover it anymore - that was my experience.
I'm not going to bang on about the iPhone, but I will say it's foundation - the speed, efficiency, and quality of that interface and the OS powering it - is in a very different league to WinMo. I'm sure that similar is true of Android, and that Symbian will also be working hard to pull themselves up by their 90's bootstraps and not be left behind. Microsoft, meanwhile, I'm sure are trading on that "emotional" commitment of their customers to some extent - the ubiquity of Windows, and the massive userbase WM has built up in the states especially - and of course that's not going to dissapear tomorrow. But equally I don't think that's going to help the consumer, and ultimately people will vote with their feet.
The iPhone has the flashier interface, but as time goes on it's not the interface that Apple are developing, but the feature set. If you look at what Apple added in 2.0, and then imagine what treats 3.0 might hold next year, you can really see WM's big feature-set advantage ebbing away to nothing - while WM meanwhile requires an almost complete rewrite to compete with that original iPhone flashiness, or speed, or power efficiency, etc...
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-10-30 12:23 ]
Posted by mobman
@Max @boinng
Hopefully i put enough winking faces at the end of my post to show i was only joking?
Posted by max_wedge
No worries then, my bad. A winking smiley simply cannot cover the range of human expression of an ACTUAL human face.
All is 
m8
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-10-30 23:10 ]
Posted by max_wedge
I hold out some hope that WM7 will have a little bit of innovation, but imho it's not something Bill is renowned for. He's more of a plodder. But he's richer than Jobs, so maybe he's not so dumb?