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Official K800/790 Video Thread


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Posted by centrinomi
im having an error which says that the application failed to initialize properly. I have .net on my computer so any reasons on why this is happening?


Posted by scaglifr
Hi ,

http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.7.0-Installer.exe

For me this link produces an installer error that cannot be got round with the /NCRC switch.

Any suggestiona much appreciated.

Cheers

F



Posted by dcuk
Try this one instead

http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.7.5-Installer.exe
(latest version)

don't forget to install .net framework 2
http://www.microsoft.com/down[....]dd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en


Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

Posted by hampad
when using m3 do i choose k800 or w900 to convert to my w850?

Posted by kosh52
Help anyone! I have a sony ericsson k800i and i have converted music videos into mp4 format (i choose to use this format rather than 3gp because of better quality and sound) using SUPER. The settings I use are: output container: MP4, output vid coded: MPEG4, output audio codec: AAC, 320x240, 1:1, 15 frame/sec, 240 bitrate video, 22050 freq to 1 channel, 64 bitrate audio. I usually get my music vids from youtube, then use keepvid to get the flv file. Then i convert to mp4 using these settings on SUPER.

However, the problem is when i view the resultant mp4's although they are generally good quality, some parts are 'sketchy' (ie. pixellated blocks appear in some frames of the video). Can someone please advise me on how to get optimum (as clear and as smooth video quality as possible) video quality on the k800i?


Posted by scaglifr
***8.7.5 Installed beautifully : thankyou.

F

Posted by dcuk
Hi hampad,

From what I can see on the SE website the w850 has the same screen as k800i

so I would use either w900(ProDuo) or k800i settings,

the only difference with the w900 setting is that it is set to split videos into 15min sections which is handy for converting a film but you can set the split time to a setting of your choice anyway on the drop down menu "Split movies into chunks of:" on the 'Basic Options' screen


Experiment with the video bitrate! Following advice from Mysh I find 300 smoother on major scene changes (no slight pause)


Hope this helps!,
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-09-29 00:19 ]

Posted by dcuk
Hi Kosh52,

Welcome to Esato!

The macroblocking you are seeing is mainly caused by a video bitrate of 240, for a 320x240 res you need to raise this up to at least 300 video bitrate.


Also when you convert videos other than "youtube" did you know the k800i can play 320x240 @ 25fps smoothly, 32000 freq stereo 64bitrate?


Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-09-29 00:42 ]

Posted by kosh52
thanks dcuk for your help...from your advice i upped the vid bitrate to 336kbps (there is no 300 on SUPER), frames/sec to 25, and audio freq at 32000 at 64 kbps. I havent seen much difference in the resultant mp4's, the 'macroblocking' is less evident, files are about 3mb larger and the quality is still scrappy compared with the HQ vid screen grabs you posted on page 12. Im thinking it could be either my source of videos (youtube quality isnt HQ, but it saves me from downloading music videos from limewire, up to 128mb in size) or it could well be the converter im using, which is SUPER.

Do you think SUPER (v2006) is good for HQ videos, or is there a better way?

Posted by dcuk
Hi kosh52,

I'm glad you are seeing less macroblocking.

personally I prefer M3 (and it's also free!)
http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.7.5-Installer.exe
(latest version)

don't forget you need to install .net framework 2 for M3 to work.
http://www.microsoft.com/down[....]dd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en

try 300 bitrate on M3 and see what results you get!?


Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Dcuk

Posted by apq
Hi

One thing that I keep get annoyed about is that I can't manage to see the timer when I fast forward or rewind the video in landscape mode. Is it just me or isn't there a such timer-thingy in landscape like there is in portrait mode that shows the time and a progress bar for the clip?

And for you mysh, keep up the good work with M3, it's great!

Posted by dcuk
Hi apq and welcome to the Esato forum,

No there isn't a progress bar in landscape mode, it's the same on the k750i.

With films or long clips, you will either have to pause switch to portrait mode fast forward then switch back.

I personaly I find it helps to cut films or long clips into 15mins or less amounts (like chapters on DVD's) to make it easier to jump to a particular point but even then it can be hard to find just the right point.

PS: almost forgot to mention M3 can split movies/long clips (found on the 'Basic Options' screen smallest amount is 10mins)
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-05 22:17 ]

Posted by Toney_Ericsson
Can anyone grab this video from this site?

http://www.zoekclip.nl/link_show.php?id=2265

I cant seem to do it with keepvid.

Posted by Jonte_77
Does anyone know how to convert to x264 in 240x320 ?

I want to try it on my w850i, but M3 keeps changing the resolution to 176 when using x264.

Any ideas?

Posted by Toney_Ericsson
Would this programme do it? http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

Posted by getwaqas
can u help me my M3 software stuck while downloading Nero acc codec its stuck at 8% i tried lots of time but no use.... i m using dialup internet so plz help me what i have to do..... thnx

Posted by dcuk
Hi getwaqas,

if it's only downloading nero you should already have m3 dowloaded and are trying to install if yes don't panic!


Download this file
http://www.nero.com/nerodigital/eng/down-ndaudio.php


once downloaded unzip so you have a NeroDigitalAudio folder,
open that folder and you will find a win32 folder inside

copy or move the 4 files inside there into the M3 'Bin' folder
********************
C:Program FilesM3Bin
********************
you're done!

M3 should now work and not ask for the nero download


PS: the nero download is only 1.1mg so even on dialup it shouldn't take to long maybe about 5 minutes

_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-10 14:57 ]

Posted by mcrosser
@Toney_Ericsson yeah, SUPER converts videos for SE phones, and recodes for many other gadgets. For the video, I use a screen capturing program. The one I use is called ZD Soft Screen Recorder. Although in the latest version it stoped being freeware and has limitation of 5 minutes and watermark. Luckily I had the instalation file of the previous version. I'll post your video in a while.

Posted by dcuk
Hi mcrosser,

I already had the video recorded from the Hit's channel and have encoded to 320x240 and uploaded for Toney_Ericsson which he now has,

thank you for your offer of help though,


I comunicated with him through PM's guess should mentioned it on here so everybody else knew (my bad, sorry)


_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-10 16:03 ]

Posted by mcrosser
that's alright. Well, I'll have a good look at this thread in the meantime, to learn some points for better video in a future SE phone I'll get. Cheers to all.

Posted by getwaqas
thnx.... dcuk bro...
its ok now ... everything working fine now.....
gr8 job bro....
stay safe

Posted by Toney_Ericsson
If anyone wants the video let us know. I'm trying to find a decent uploader actually as rapideshare is abit problematic what with the wait times.

I have'nt sussed out M3 yet myself but yes Super is great

[ This Message was edited by: Toney_Ericsson on 2006-10-11 13:05 ]

Posted by sahran
Hiii

does anybody played wmv video on his K800i ?

i tried many times but with no luck .

Posted by DCUK7
Quote:

On 2006-10-11 20:22:05, sahran wrote:
Hiii

does anybody played wmv video on his K800i ?

i tried many times but with no luck .



K800i doesn't support WMV. Use M3 or something similar to convert the video to MP4.

Posted by mysh
WMV will work on the k800i.

The highest settings it will work at are:

video resolution: 176x144 (QCIF)

video framerate: 25 fps

video bitrate: 200 to 250kbps

video codec : Windows media video 9

audio codec : windows media audio 9.x

audio bitrate etc: 96kbps maybe higher, 44.1/48 Khz, 16-bit

IMPORTANT when you encode the WMV, you MUST set the 'decoding complexity' to simple or the video will not play on the phone.

The decoding complexity option is exposed in the free-to-download windows media encoder that you can download from microsoft.

the option is also available in adobe after effects.

I wouldn't recommend using WMV, as the resolution is limited to QCIF, and MPEG-4 AVC (h.264) offers better video quality in QCIF resolution at a lower bitrate (150kbps).

Thanks to everyone that has sent me error reports for M3, i'll be resuming work on it now, expect those errors fixed and some new features shortly.

[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-12 13:40 ]

Posted by DCUK7
Quote:

On 2006-10-12 14:38:53, mysh wrote:
IMPORTANT when you encode the WMV, you MUST set the 'decoding complexity' to simple or the video will not play on the phone.



That'll be why mine didn't work! Nice tip mysh, thanks.


Posted by dcuk
Welcome back Mysh,
It's good to see you back!


Hi ~DC:UK~,
I have to say I'm sorry I really had no idea there was already a DCUK when I joined!

Posted by dcuk
Hi everyone,

Mysh has a new version of M3 available, here's the link
http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.8.2-Installer.exe

Dont forget you need .net framework version 2 for M3 to work!
http://www.microsoft.com/down[....]DD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en


_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk


[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-20 00:40 ]

Posted by francoislr
Ah i see mysh has also laid his finger of magic on this thread. M3 is the coolest thing that could have happened to my w900i! There are other ways, but none as good and effective as it.

Going to start my battlestar galactica festival now, finishing with the second season this weekend. Got 5 episodes on my already-full-without-it 2gb memory stick pro duo.

Posted by jj03
Mysh, is it possible you could add a function to change the Frames Per Second
box to allow alteration? ive changed my handset to a n73, i would appreciate this addition.

Posted by mysh
hey jj03, that is planned yeah. did you want higher framerates for the n73, like 30fps?

I'm working on a new profile system, and framerate will most likely be capped at 30fps, because anything more is a waste of bitrate with no visible benefits.

In fact 30fps isn't really needed either, 25fps looks as smooth. But there are some 30fps videos that would look better kept at 30fps, so no frames are cut out or blended together.

Posted by Supa_Fly
Technically speaking 24fps is the lowest the human eye can perceive as fluid, without seeing the individual frames slipstreaming by the screen. Standard movies that you see in the theatre roll at 24fps. Cathode Ray TV's are best viewing movies at 30 fps because the image in interlaced. However its all relative to the SIZE of the video image or resolution really.

Why oh WHY isnt the K790/800 capable of 280x320 or even 640x320 resolution for video recording. Camera specs are capable of it; unless the video chip is restricted. Common SE pick up the pace. The W900 was capable of incredible resolution.

Posted by mysh
hi prom1

if you want to get technical....

24 fps is the standard for film, as it is the lowest you can provide perceptibly -perfect- fluid motion. Film costs money, so they picked the lowest framerate they could get away with, to use less frames, less film.

As you say, TVs are interlaced. In canada i expect it's the same as the US, and you use the NTSC picture format, which is a 60Hz interlaced picture - 30 fps. So far as i'm aware, this isn't for visual reasons, but because north american AC power is provided at 60Hz. In fact due to the higher refresh rate of the picture, the image quality is lower. NTSC has a lower pixel resolution and narrower colour definition...

... Compared to PAL, the UK/European TV picture format, which is 50Hz interlaced, 25 fps (50Hz AC power supply here). It has slightly higher resolution, and better colour reproduction.

Technically speaking, about movies on TVs, movies are bested viewed at 25fps on a PAL TV screen, because they can simply be speeded up by 1 fps and then pitch-shift the soundtrack. When a movie is shown on NTSC TV it has to be telecined quite complexly, using a 3:2 (more recently 2:3) pulldown. This introduces annoying visual problems with some camera motion (bump/skips).

Using 24 fps on the phones is a bit hit-and-miss, it's fine if your source is a 23.976 movie DVD, but for most other content it doesn't match up. So 25fps seemed the better choice. It matches PAL DVD content and an awful lot of decent quality video content on the internet. For video such as NTSC DVDs and a small amount of 30fps internet content, 25fps combined with some frame blending maintains smooth motion on that content too.

I won't go into telecine / inverse-telecine pulldown methods, these are just phones!

I'm not sure what you mean about the size making a difference... even 20fps versus 25fps on the little phone screen can be distinguised quite easily.

M3 specifically, will encode source video of 25 fps or higher at a 25fps framerate, using frame blending on > 25fps (eg. 29.97 fps) material to preserve fluid motion. On video below 25 fps and above 23 fps, it will keep the native framerate - ie. your 23.976 fps feature film will remain at 23.976 fps on your phone.

(note this doesn't apply to old generation phones such as the W810/K750 that are limited in terms of bitrate / framerate, getting 24 or 25 fps out of them takes incredibly low bitrates, so m3 will use 20fps on those phones as a framerate / visual quality compromise).

I didn't include 30fps as an option initially because those extra 5 frames per second, that aren't needed in nearly all cases, cost a lot on the phone. If you kept the ~350kbps video bitrate used at 25fps when encoding at 30fps, you still have 20% more frames to spread that bitrate over - less bits per frame - lower video quality. Add to that, that at 30fps you must also lower bitrate to prevent stutters, down to about 275kbps at least, you're looking at at least 33% less bits per frame. It's not like there's enough bitrate at 25fps, so at 30fps visual quality will suffer greatly.

I'm assuming the n73 has better bitrate / framerate support than the K800 etc, much like the symbian-based P990 has. So i mentioned i'd up the limit to 30fps for the n73 for jj03.

About the video recording resolution. I did own a W900i till it suffered an impact, and i think it's above-average video recording (QVGA @ 30fps) was possible due to the nvidia go-force 4800 chip inside it. I believe it provided hardware-accelerated mpeg-4/h.263 encoding as well as decoding. Whatever video accelleration is provided in the current phones, it appears to be much more for decode than encode. So although the camera sensor can provide the images at a good rate, the phone can't compress them fast enough. You can't leave them uncompressed, because there isn't enough storage space. I don't think the ARM cpu in the phones can software-compress QVGA @ 30fps either, it's only 200MHz.

The best hope for improved video recording on SE phones in the future is that SE once again includes a powerful multimedia chip inside the phone for video duties.

Excuse the long post, i couldn't sleep tonight.

Posted by jj03
Quote:

On 2006-10-22 00:33:36, mysh wrote:
hey jj03, that is planned yeah. did you want higher framerates for the n73, like 30fps?

I'm working on a new profile system, and framerate will most likely be capped at 30fps, because anything more is a waste of bitrate with no visible benefits.

In fact 30fps isn't really needed either, 25fps looks as smooth. But there are some 30fps videos that would look better kept at 30fps, so no frames are cut out or blended together.



Yes..some higher framerates for the n73 is what i had in mind...because at the moment, when i convert films, at 25fps, theres some serious skipping in playback...the pictures great, as is the sound, but becuase its skipping, i think it needs to go higher..it plays fine at 15fps, but that was using SUPER!

Posted by jj03
I'm still trying to find the sweet spot for the n73 regarding framerate...15 fps is fine..25fps gives some stutter...i know the processor speed is around 220mhz, so maybe it struggles at 25fps, given the size of the screen too...(2.4 qvga)

Posted by dcuk
Hi Mysh,

I thought you were using xvid fixed profiles, since you're not please could you add a custom profile for the K750i

the size reduction is method is 'Precise bilinear' and resolution is 128x96 at 25fps, 200 video bitrate, 64kbps audio LC aac

Surprisingly when played on the K750i media player stretched to full screen doesn't look that different to 176x144 but you will find 128x96 does play super smooth at 25fps and will give users of that handset an extra option if they want 25fps

Thank you.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Back to the K800i profile is it possible to tweek the encoder seek ahead settings to help remove the macro blocking shake into focus (simplest way I can try and descibe the effect that happens when watching an encoded video) happening on every scene change,

I don't remember it being there a couple of M3 versions ago but will check and see.

Keep up the great work and thank you for M3!


_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

Edit: to change @ symbol to 'at' as it created a link to mail to nothing

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-22 20:35 ]

Posted by mysh
hey dcuk

I can certainly add that as an option, no problem. Quite interesting to hear actually. Once the new profile system is finished, it'll also be very easy to use any arbitrary resolution and framerate.

Well spotted on the macroblocking during scene changes! I changed some of the advanced xvid settings a few releases ago (CBR buffer averaging). Previously, on a scene change, the codec would create rather large 'keyframes' (I-frames that used too much bitrate), that then caused the phones to stutter slightly, and in the case of the w900i, even to lose sound for a few seconds. So i reduced the available bits for new keyframes on scene changes, which results in no stutter or sound loss, but gives heavier compressed (macroblock-y) initial frames on scene change.

You're actually the first person to notice this behaviour! I was hoping someone would tho, because it bothers me also. It gives me the excuse to add an option for new/old keyframe encoding. I think i'll revert to the old method for all phones except the w900i, the only phone which had the original problem.

Posted by DCUK7
Quote:

On 2006-10-13 02:12:42, dcuk wrote:
Welcome back Mysh,
It's good to see you back!


Hi ~DC:UK~,
I have to say I'm sorry I really had no idea there was already a DCUK when I joined!




That's ok. Thats the reason I have the funny characters in the name, I know it will be unique! Someone did ask me why I created two accounts though!

Posted by Supa_Fly
@Mysh.

Thanks IMMENSELY for that incredible post. Yes in Canada we use NTSC. PAL has always been superior.

Well now that I'm armed with information its time to start encoding. Weeee!

Posted by xan K
I open the M3 app today and noticed a new upgrade:

M3 v0.8.8.3

_________________
Sony Ericsson + Esato = TOTAL PWNAGE!!!

[ This Message was edited by: xan K on 2006-10-23 00:52 ]

Posted by dcuk
Hey Mysh

thank you for your feedback!

I know we are always asking for requests and it's not fair to ask to much but how easy would it be to add .mpg/.avi AC3 support? (for people who already have video files with this audio format)

There is an opensource AC3 coder/decoder here if this helps!?
http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/

PS: If it's not feasible don't worry.
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-23 01:58 ]

Posted by mysh
i don't think you can get mpeg files with ac3 soundtracks?

vob files containing mpeg video have ac3 soundtracks, but vob files with ac3 are already supported by M3.

avi files with ac3 audio are also supported, providing you can play the avi file on your computer. What that means is you need some kind of ac3 codec installed.

i personally use m3 to convert a number of avi files with ac3 audio, so i know it does work.

if you've got a problem with an avi containing ac3 audio, ie. it fails to convert in m3, email me the lastrun.log.

I could easily change the avi-with-ac3 decoding method if you find there is a problem.

[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-23 03:57 ]

Posted by dcuk
Would you like me to send you one?

EDIT: update mailed you an small mpg AC3 file to try


[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-23 13:53 ]

Posted by mysh
Thanks for the file dcuk.

After checking it out, it seems your mpg file -was- a vob file taken straight from a dvd, and renamed to mpg to make it play in windows media player.

The easiest fix for that is to name it back to .vob instead.

But as some renamed vob mpeg streams may be on readonly storage (can't rename unless you copy it), i've added code to detect pseudo-vob files named as mpg/mpeg/dat and treat them as vob files without renaming them (ac3 audio decoding and also more importantly DAR/PAR aspect correction).

Posted by dcuk
Thanks Mysh

The clip was from my dvd ripped using DVDFabDecrypter then imported the vob into VideoReDo-Plus to select just the part I wanted to send to you so saved out as an mpg

I guess ViedoReDo will be just renaming the vob section (hadn't thought of that, thanks) as it only encodes extra I-frames at cuts to create keyframes and no other actual 'video' encoding is done

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Very interested to here about your work so far on PAR & DAR cropping

I've been working for hours, well actually last few days lol to correct my own PAL Anamorphic movie to K800i 320x240 4:3 cropping algorithm and think I've finally cracked it!
(there's lot of articles on the net to go 4:3 to 16:9 but not the other way round)

*** here it is in case it's helpful in some way.***
720x576 (16:9)-> cropped to smaller(4:3)= y1+y2*2.04/2=cropping size x1 & x2

The user only has to manually crop the blackbars at the top & bottom, the left and right is cropped automatically to keep correct aspect for the K800i

If you need my 720x576 (non-anamorphic) to 320x240 4:3 please let me know,


I might be behind in where you are at but thought I'd try and help with M3 in some small way.


_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk

[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-24 00:11 ]

Posted by jj03
found out that the max framrate for the n73 is 15 fps...surely that can't be right...quite disappointed. anyway...hopefully mysh's adjustments to m3 will help me out video wise.

Posted by mysh
hey dcuk,

Interesting to see you've been looking at DAR correction too... any reason?

I had to develop DAR correction once i added vob support to m3 a while ago, and then tweak it a bit more once i added full DVD ripping.

I'm trying to follow your formula there, it seems you're operating on cropping values either end of the picture (y1/2 and x1/2), but i found as 1 and 2 are always equal, it's easier to operate on total crop value then divide by two as the last step.

When m3 calculate cropping values for DVDs or vobs, it does it in stages. First thing to deal with is the 4:3 PAR using a 16:9 DAR (display as non-square pixels), and m3 handles this by changing the PAR to 16:9 also. for example on a typical DVD...

PAR = 720x576
DAR = 16:9

resize the video pixel resolution to 16:9 using...

new y = (x / DAR-x) * DAR-y

in this case that's...

(720 / 16) * 9 = 405

changing PAR to 720x405, so now...

PAR = 720x405 = DAR = 16:9

Now the video is played with square pixels (DAR is applied at the pixel level), so it's like any other widescreen video.

At this point 4:3 cropping is done the same as any other video such as avi/mov/mp4 etc.

M3 has several widescreen modes, but in the case of cropping to 4:3 for fullscreen with no borders, the math is:

(y / 3) * 4 = new x

old x - new x = total cropping

crop per side = total cropping / 2

in the example that's....

(405 / 3) * 4 = 540

720 - 540 = 180

180 / 2 = 90

so crop 90 pixels from each side to get 4:3 fullscreen without distortions.

As a single line formula for widescreen to 4:3 cropping, you could express it as:

crop from each side = (ResX - ((ResY / 3) * 4)) / 2

i'm pretty sure i put it in those video tutorials i wrote.

Then resize to 320x240 of course. hehe.


jj03: 15fps does sound low, i'll look into n73 performance, but if it is only 15fps, that's what i'll add the profile as.


[ This Message was edited by: mysh on 2006-10-24 00:54 ]

Posted by jj03
thankyou mysh...very very much appreciated...oh..and please add a donate button soon...

Posted by mysh
Thanks jj03, i will add the donate button soon... once things are working well enough that i won't feel bad accepting money for it!

Posted by jj03
well, i'll tell ya..i'm using SUPER! at the mo...and it just don't feel right...i'm so used to m3...


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