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Author nokia 3200
mmsman
P800
Joined: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: slovenia
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Posted: 2003-12-11 13:57
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wow I had a big laugh here 3650 better than p800, for your info yes i really don't own a 3650 but I have a 7650, and i have tried 3650 because my friend has it, so i think i can comment on your post,
OS:I think you can't say that the os is better, true,series 60 is a brillant os but you can't compare it to alot more complex 7.0, and can you please tell what can you do with 6.1 that you can't in 7.0, because I was looking and exploring my nokia 7650 and i can't find a single thing but I don't have a 3650 so you can correct me here. I think this is just like saying the microsoft smartphone edition is better than microsoft pocket pc 2003, they are not comparable, each one is excellent for it's task but you can't compare them! This is also like comparing 90 to 60, nokia had to use 90 for a device such like 7700 and it the same way se can't put a 6.1 into a p800, it's not powerful enough, so they have a 7.0 and in my opinion it's one of the best operating systems out there, just like 60 but hey each in it's own segment, and again it's like saying that spv has a better os than xda II
SCREEN: It's true that p800 has a blueish haze BUT it corrects it comparing to 3650's screen in more pixels (66560 pixels comparing to 36606 pixels) Both have great screens but it's a fact that p800 has a touchscreen and a bigger resolution so in my opinion the winner is obvious here....
DESIGN: A personal taste so I won't type much here, but I have to say that to me 3650 is just ugly and the ergonomics of the keypad is just crap, yes the p800 doesn't hgave a quality keypad but hey at least the keys aren't in a circle..... oh and the mmc placement is one of the worse in history
APPS: It's a fact that 60 has more apps and alot of apps are the same but you have to agree that 7.0 apps are alot more complex bigger and more user friendly because of the touchscreen, if you ask there's no doubt in terms of media apps (games, players etc.) that the winner is 3650 but you obviosly aren't a businees users because there are better apps for p800 in terms of complexity and features of apps! and for the end i must say that apps designed for p800 are alot better than 60 ones, in games (i can't remember any but i know that I've played alot more 3d games then you will ever see on a nokia series 60), media(oggplay or unreal 2), internet (opera), other apps
FEATURES: They both have simmilar features but as i can remember (correct me if i'm wrong) 3650 has only a 3+1 gprs, while p800 doesn't have t9 and it has a worse camera, but in my opinion you can type faster than t9 in the virtual keyboard or in handwriting recognition, so i think that it's obvious that p800 has more features (better processor, more memory, better all together)
PACKAGE: Well p800 has so many things in it's box that you will probably never see with nokia (usb docking station, case, extra syluses, msduo card with adapter, carrying belt etc.)
MY OPINION: First of YOU CANNOT COMPARE THE TWO! the price is a execellent indicator of this, but to put it short: show me a person that would take a 3650 and he wouldn't take a p800 if both of them were free (and don't say that you would take it )
I think that the only thing that bothers you with the p800 is the sign sony ericsson, so i don't think it's correct that you have a signature like that, you are just the same only vica versa.....

BTW: you said that mmc cards are better, yes for it's price, but no in technology, try putting a 128 mb movie on your mmc then on your ms duo adn you will see the clear difference in speed.....
Flying Finn
K800 Black
Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Finland
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Posted: 2003-12-11 15:04
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I don't stand behind the comment that 3650 is better than P800 but the 3650 definately has faster GPRS than 3 +1.

[ This Message was edited by: Flying Finn on 2003-12-11 14:04 ]
mmsman
P800
Joined: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: slovenia
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Posted: 2003-12-11 16:19
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@flying finn: can you please show me a link ehre it says it has 4+1 or better, i'm not 100% about 3+1 but i thought it had the same gprs as the one in 6600 therefore 3+1 timeslots, and i did a quick google search and i found some pages that also said it has a 3+1 gprs......
masseur
P910
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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Posted: 2003-12-11 16:31
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I can possibly help there.

The Nokia 3650 Phone Features page says this about data speeds...

Data Transfer
o Up to 43.2 kilobits per second in high-speed circuit switched data networks
o Up to 40.2 kilobits per second in GPRS networks

and according to the GPRS class tables on GSM World (an invaluable resource btw) that makes it 4+1
hurny
P900
Joined: Dec 04, 2002
Posts: 350
From: Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-11 17:39
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Good on you mmsman- you actually had a lot of good stuff to say. I will credit you with most of what you said.
Except, I think the 3650 is head and shoulder above the 7650. The simple fact that it has a MMC is proof enough. I would suggest owning a 3650 for a while to see what it can really do.

Quote:

On 2003-12-11 13:57:47, mmsman wrote:
Both have great screens but it's a fact that p800 has a touchscreen and a bigger resolution so in my opinion the winner is obvious here....

I already mentioned the touch screen of the P800. By the way- 'larger resolution' is worse.

Quote:
DESIGN: A personal taste so I won't type much here, but I have to say that to me 3650 is just ugly and the ergonomics of the keypad is just crap


Fine, but as Finn said- looks isnt a valid argument. I love both the 3650 and the P800 designs.
Quote:

APPS: It's a fact that 60 has more apps and alot of apps are the same but you have to agree that 7.0 apps are alot more complex bigger and more user friendly


Complex isnt good. I find the Series 60 interface to be top notch. The P800 UI is great too, but I prefer a less PDA feeling UI.
To me, more apps is the key. I notice that CameraFX has just come out for my P800. My 3650 has had it for years. AND as you say, the camera is better.

As for finding nothing that the P800 doesnt have, how about video recorder and Real-one?
Quote:
if you ask there's no doubt in terms of media apps (games, players etc.) that the winner is 3650


I agree
Quote:
but you obviosly aren't a businees users because there are better apps for p800 in terms of complexity and features of apps!

I dont really think there is any P800 apps that are better or more complex. There is almost always the Series 60 app before the P800 app.
Quote:
i can't remember any but i know that I've played alot more 3d games then you will ever see on a nokia series 60


My 3650 has more 3D games. I must admit the larger screen on the P800 is a big plus- as I've already said. Yet, the 3650 screen aint small.
Quote:
I think that the only thing that bothers you with the p800 is the sign sony ericsson, so i don't think it's correct that you have a signature like that, you are just the same only vica versa.....


You're right- it is a retaliation to the SE lovers. Its not an anti SE signature, just an anti SE user signature.
Nokia Sux? Put a logo on it and you'd think it was awesome!!
mmsman
P800
Joined: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: slovenia
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Posted: 2003-12-11 17:40
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Well yeah I know about the speed I was just wondering which class was and masseur thanks for the link, though isn't t610's speed 53kilobits and if so how could it be in the same segment as nokia?
I've read some reviews that stated 6600 has 3+1 (in magazines so i can't give you a link) and 6600 has according to nokia the same download speed as 3650,
here are some links that says it has 3+1:
http://it.kelkoo.com/b/a/ss_nokia_3650.html
http://www.cellularshop.net/it/dept_6.html
http://www.westel900.hu/vallalati_portal/keszulekek/keszulek_11.html
http://www.factotus.it/it/catalog/Product.jhtml?productId=I3434
http://uk.gsmbox.com/news/mobile_news/all/95675.gsmbox
http://www.teledom.spb.ru/_nok_3650.htm
and the most important one nokia itself:
http://ncsp.forum.nokia.com/downloads/nokia/documents/3650_FAQ_1_02.pdf

edit:
@hurny: yeah i forget about the video camera , sorry about that as I said i don't really have it,
as for apps I think that about 90% apps that are for p800 are also for 3650 yet i found that playing doom or geopod or something like that is alot easier with p800
i have to say that i'm not very active in terms of apps that was only my opinion I had an impression that apps for the p800 are more complex and bigger but i can be wrong.........
and about the realone player, well i didn't mention it because the p800 has pv so i thought i was the same really..... but yes i found real one a litlle better.....

[ This Message was edited by: mmsman on 2003-12-11 16:50 ]
hurny
P900
Joined: Dec 04, 2002
Posts: 350
From: Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-11 18:00
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Quote:
about the realone player, well i didn't mention it because the p800 has pv so i thought i was the same really..... but yes i found real one a litlle better....


My 3650 has realone AND pv. I use PV for full screen movies, and realon for streaming.
Nokia Sux? Put a logo on it and you'd think it was awesome!!
mmsman
P800
Joined: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: slovenia
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Posted: 2003-12-11 18:36
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oh yeah i rememberd now,ok but this isn't anyway a big difference because you can get free programs from emule or such not that i use them
gelfen
Z600
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-12 00:22
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Quote:

On 2003-12-11 10:55:03, Flying Finn wrote:
The newer Series 40 phones (3100, 3200, 5140, 6220, 6230, 6650, 6810, 6820, 7200, 7250i, 7600) have a grid view menu like SE phones if that's what you mean. Nothing historic about their UI, if only you had tried them before calling them that. 5140, 6230, 6820 and 7200 also have the newer Series 40 2.0 UI version which adds a 3rd softkey to the middle to compensate the small screen (the fonts are a little smaller too). 3G Series 40 phones - 6650 and 7600 so far - come with a 128 x 160 screen (65K colours in the 7600).

The Series 60 UI is INARGUABLY one of the best out there.

Overall appearance/design...don't you think that's a matter of opinion? "that nokia is ugly" isn't a very valid argument.

The Series 60 phones have always been said to have good screens. The older Series 40 phones didn't have that good screens but the new UI version (plus new components) and increasing the number of colours up to 65K has helped.

Games and covers are one of the most important evolutions in mobile phone history. Thanks to Nokia.

"Nobody in all honesty blah blah blah.." Come on. You have to put some effor to that.



apparantly you conveniently missed the part where i said that recently there were exceptions to my comments, and that i was describing tendencies, not immutable laws. the improvements in the Series 40 UI have only been in the past 6 months or so. There is no argument that Series 60 is one of the best phone OSs available, it too is a relatively recent development in terms of current functionality. all of your examples above are recent developments or as yet unreleased phones. but it took nokia far too long to get there. this also goes for screens and polys (they are by no means a market leader in screens, and we're still waiting on the polys.....bueller?...bueller?....anyone? anyone?)

my point, and you can see this in my post on page 5, is that once nokia introduce something it has historically taken them a long time to offer any improvement or even change. the two most obvious were and overall design. i am in no way whatsoever discussing the aesthetics of the design, but the fact that for the best part of a decade IT DID NOT CHANGE. as for there really was no excuse because the hard work had already been done.

i always find it amusing that nokia fans talk about covers and games, and even radios, as if they are God's Final Gift to His Creation. no compelling argument can be made that they are a vital or essential feature. they are toys and nothing more, designed to fool the ignorant masses into parting with their money. and while i admit they fulfill this function admirably, they are at best a marketing tool and at worst a frivolity.

_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.

[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2003-12-11 23:24 ]
701
P1
Joined: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Romania
PM, WWW
Posted: 2003-12-12 03:21
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Incidentally,i've seen this nokia on the grey market here at 300$, while the same online shop has the t610 at the same price. Now u tell me:what kind o' craphead would buy this nokia if it were to compare it with the t610's features?

This message was posted from a T610

gelfen
Z600
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-12 03:25
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but mummy, i want a cardboard cutout phone!

@ Flying Finn: happy anniversary
_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.

[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2003-12-12 02:27 ]
hurny
P900
Joined: Dec 04, 2002
Posts: 350
From: Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-12 06:55
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Quote:
i always find it amusing that nokia fans talk about covers and games, and even radios, as if they are God's Final Gift to His Creation. no compelling argument can be made that they are a vital or essential feature. they are toys and nothing more, designed to fool the ignorant masses into parting with their money. and while i admit they fulfill this function admirably, they are at best a marketing tool and at worst a frivolity.


Is that all your can come up with- that features like that arent 'vital/essential features'?
NO FEATURES ARE VITAL OR ESSENTIAL EXCEPT THE PHONE FUNCTION YOU TWAT!!

Swallow the fact that people WANT those features, and thats why more people will buy the 'horrible' Nokia phones such as the 3200 instead of SE phones.

Or do you just think that everyone else in the mobile consumer market is stupid except for yourself that 'sees the light' about getting a SE phone?

You ignorant git...
Nokia Sux? Put a logo on it and you'd think it was awesome!!
gelfen
Z600
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-13 03:01
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jesus wept hurny! are you naturally gifted at misinterpretation or did you take lessons??

i've been trying to have a civilised debate over the pro's and cons of nokia and you have to get personal. who mentioned ? i'm just talking about what i have observed of nokia. i'm not on an power trip for crying out loud. having only had one single mobile phone i haven't even developed brand loyalty yet, so don't try and turn this around on me. at no stage have i said anyone should go out and buy a specific brand. they should get the handset which best meets their needs. if john doe goes out and buys a nokia 3200 because that's what all his mates have and he can get changeable covers, and not because it's the right phone for him, then all that will happen is he will get disillusioned with nokias and probably not buy another one. that means he may well miss out on a phone that really does meet his needs if, say, he should have got a 6230 and no other phone at the time meets that feature combination (which will be the case for a few months).

why does nearly every nokia nut go into apoplexy when someone tries to say that games and covers aren't a necessary part of the phone? don't give me that "is that the best you can do?" crap just because you can't construct a coherent rational argument to the contrary. i'm not denying people might want them, i'm just saying they don't need them. there's a lot of people out there who confuse the difference, which is why they are such a good marketing tool.

as for saying the only essential phone function is to make calls, i think a reasonalbe argument can be mounted for the necessity of an organiser, ability to sync with and transfer files/apps from/to a computer, and possibly email for certain users. a widely travelled person, for instance, may need a java currency converter, mobile email to keep in touch and organiser for appointments. such a person would probably need a 6600/6230/t6x0/z600/px00 depending on their specific situation.

the target market of the 3200 probably only needs it to make calls and send texts. all the rest (games, covers, camera) is just there as a marketing tool to get people in by appealing to their sense of (a)individuality and (b) vanity. that way they can boast about all the cool funky shit their phone has which they may never use and chews battery time like a garbage compacter. nobody needs those things in their phone, but because they are available companies need them to get people to buy the phone.

you'll notice i have a z600. sure it's got games, changeable covers, and even a camera, but that's not why i bought it. i got it for the screen, triband, bt, contacts, organsier and ability to sync. it also happens to be exactly the same colour as my car. do i need a phone that matches my car? not really, but once i saw it i wanted it because i think it's a cool colour. it appealed to my (a) individuality and (b) vanity. but at least i am able to recognise it for what it is - a sales pitch. if somebody asked me if i recommend a z600, i'd say "yeah absolutely, but make sure you need all these features before you buy it otherwise you're probably wasting your money." if they confuse what they need with what they want, or think they want, then that's their business. if they really only need a 3100 then that's their choice too.

just because somebody mentions a general shortfall they perceive in nokia phones, it doesn't automatically mean they hate and despise all nokia handsets. i have said before i think the 3200 is a good phone in it's segment, although personally i don't like it's design. but that's a matter of individual taste so not really worth arguing over. a lot of people don't like clams, but i do. i'm not going to try to convince them otherwise. there are some very good nokias and vey bad ones, just as there are both great and lame-ass phones from every brand. it's all a matter of segment, target market, and individual consumer needs.

you're entitled to your opinion, but at least be courteous enough to let me have mine.
madinlife
T68i
Joined: Oct 17, 2002
Posts: 18
From: glasgow
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Posted: 2003-12-23 21:04
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the one point that seems to have been missed is that the Nokias have better signal quality over the Sonyericsson T610 which in my view was crap and in the UK you can get a nokia 3200 for only £149.99 on prepay compared to £229for the T610 as the nokia is aimed at youths who probaly have no bluetooth devices to connect to and not that bothered about it, the other point is the nokia 3200 allow the user to change the cover to their own tastes whithout paying for new covers
gelfen
Z600
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: 2003-12-23 23:09
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@madinlife, i don't know what fiction you've been reading lately, but the t610 is generally better than most nokias when it comes to reception, even the much vaunted 3650. some of the early t610s did have rf issues, but later hardwares have been much improved. do not be fooled by the reception bars on the display. the t610, and in genral, update the signal strength more often and tend to underestimate, while most other brands average signal strength over a broader time and overestimate. there are numerous reports of people making and holding clear calls with no signal bars on the display.

if you want more information, then check this thread at HoFo. of course there will NEVER be an end to this particular argument.
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