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Lumia 1020 vs 808 PV vs any potential rival. |
false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
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Not impressed with those Octa photos. I fail to see what is special about them. The iPhone does better from what I saw so far.
On 2013-10-24 07:02:00, Bonovox wrote:
There is some decent detail in the Sony Z1 but there is a few blurry spots as is the 1020 too but not as much. Sony have released an update to fix images and am still waiting for it on my device. It was also a windy day which might explain some leaves looking blurry but overall to my eyes the Sony looks decent. Yeah it's not quite the detail of the 1020 in 5mp mode but it's certainly not as bad as people make out. If you try hard enough you'll get great pics. More often than not using auto is useless in my view.
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Xperia Z1 White [ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2013-10-24 06:07 ]
The wind explains some stuff. Never expected with such shiny and clear weather a strong windy day.
But still the detail on the bricks and ground isn't impressive. We shall see what the update would do about it.
And it manages good colors btw. DR isn't that good it seems though. Despite you stopping down third step the clipping parts were still there. |
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false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
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On 2013-10-24 03:33:53, Thiagosats wrote:
My test on low light (manual mode) Lumia 1020
Pretty nice photos. What shutter speeds did go for?
The exposure seems perfect. Well done. Usually I would some trial and errors to land on the right exposure in such night shots..
Any chance we could see the originals? |
davidsic
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Belgium
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It makes me laugh to read that the octa version is better ... as if s600 version was bad ...
Quote :
When we turned HDR on, we also encountered some minor differences. The Galaxy S4 (600) did better in exposing properly the highlights and the shadows simultaneously. That's properly due to a slightly flatter contrast curve, so again, it's a matter of camera tuning. Plus, the difference is not that big (or that noticeable with the naked eye).
Here's a comparison, which demonstrates the difference in the resolved dynamic range of both cameraphones with the HDR mode on. The highlighted areas is where there is a loss in image information due to clipping, so the less highlighting there is, the better. Still, it's really hard to notice the difference in dynamic range between the two with a naked eye without the help of computer software.
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false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
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On 2013-10-23 23:36:05, cu015170 wrote:
You can't really expect much from that tiny sensor.. as soon as they announced the specs I knew that I shouldn't keep my hopes up for the Z1.
The rumors were about this:
http://www.gsmarena.com/alleg[....]ny_honami_emerge-news-5948.php
"Sony Honami will reportedly pack a Sony 1/1.6" Exmor RS stacked sensor and Cybershot G glass lens. A 1/1.6" sized camera sensor will be larger than any of its competitors', save for the one in the Nokia 808 Pureview. You can see how it stacks up against the current establishment in the graphic below."
And they had my full attention... too bad it turned out to be much, much smaller than that.
I don't think it can be considered as a potential 1020 rival.. of course, that depends on the perspective.. even an iPhone 3gs can be a potential rival if you so desire 
Z1 should be compared to the 1520 .. not the 1020, let alone the 808.
Сашо wait for the WP Black update.. it seems like they will fix a lot of the issues the 1020 has at the moment, expect for the edge blur.. that's hardware.
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2013-10-23 22:41 ]
It's simple: Sensor size matters the most when comparing two sensors of same generation, made by same manufacturer.
When dealing with two sensors of different generations, sensor size and pixel density become two factors out of few.
BSI was a milestone in sensor technology. Making a leap step ahead.
But even when comparing two BSI sensors of different generations, with same size and pixel density, significant difference will be there.
In optics on the other hand, the same doesn't hold true. In R&D labs some development is going through, but still nothing is out to make new lenses that would be of any tangible improvement to a 5 years one. Talking optical quality at least.
In smartphones, a current challenge is to make bigger lenses fit in smaller designs. And manufacturers are getting better at it with adding lens elements and bigger apertures. Other than that, there is also no true advancement on optical quality. As in a lens of same number and type of elements and aperture delivering better quality than the other.
That's why camera bodies keep being released and improved while same lenses models are being produced for years now.
Next issue you badly need to comprehend, is that oversharpening artifacts are different to luminance noise. Luminance noise itself could help give the illusion of sharp detail in certain photos, so it's not totally left out in some examples which wanted to be as sharp as possible. But still oversharpening grains are different to sensor noise. To tell them apart one could pixel peep and differentiate them in case that someone knows how each looks like.
There are professional software though that could do this eye pain test. And with reliable results.
That's why you look at 1020's images and shout "NOISE" all over the place. While in reality the 1020's sensor manages less noise than the 808's. Not by much though.
Now if Nokia gets rid of these ridiculous oversharpening grains then the 1020 will outdo anything on the market today under every condition. Right now it excels the most in landscape.
Good news is that Nokia listened and are due to release an update addressing all 1020's issues. Hopefully they do a good job there though.
[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2013-10-24 20:59 ] |
cu015170
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
Posts: > 500
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^ the results tend to follow
bigger sensor = better IQ
The difference in the sensor is only a few years, if that.. there hasn't been any significant advancements in sensor technology in the past few years.
Yes, if we are comparing a graphene sensor to a conventional one..sure, but all of these are very similar and size is the most important aspect.
On 2013-10-24 21:20:50, Sassho wrote:
Camera compare Z1 vs Note 3
http://www.phonearena.com/rev[....]s-Sony-Xperia-Z1_id3468/page/3
@cu015170 - this year I'm very disapointed from "photoflagmans" by Sony and Nokia. SGS4 is the best cameraphone this year and Iphone 5s. Nice detail and colors , low noise by SGS4 Octa. Per 5mp might be even better and better than Lumia's / Z1 
The 1020 is much better than the gs4.. in pretty much every single department
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2013-10-24 21:02 ] |
false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
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On 2013-10-24 21:59:43, cu015170 wrote:
^ the results tend to follow
bigger sensor = better IQ
The difference in the sensor is only a few years, if that.. there hasn't been any significant advancements in sensor technology in the past few years.
Yes, if we are comparing a graphene sensor to a conventional one..sure, but all of these are very similar and size is the most important aspect.
Few years are not little. Examples are all over the place.
I'm not saying that 1/3" sensors will outperform the 808's 1/1.2" sensor by next year. They are not leapfrogging every year.
But best example is how the 1020's 1/1.5" sensor achieves less noise than the 1/1.2" sensor. BSI is a significant difference. But not to the extent that Sony's 1/2.3" BSI sensor outperforms the 808's sensor.
It's relative.
Take a look at the Nikon 1 series' 1" sensors. They outperform three years old four thirds sensors. And outperform 5 years old APS-C sensors from Nikon. The difference in size here is huge.
Even full format sensors keep getting better with each generation by a significant amount. Talking about three years difference max between generations.
Compare the N95's sensor to the 2013 same sized ones. Big difference. |
cu015170
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
Posts: > 500
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Less noise indeed..
And my alter ego posted these here: http://forums.wpcentral.com/n[....]-1020/246495-3.htm#post2189979
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Sassho
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: > 500
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On 2013-10-24 21:33:05, false_morel wrote:
Not impressed with those Octa photos. I fail to see what is special about them. The iPhone does better from what I saw so far.
I too  But this year Octa the Best Cameraphone - no way compare with Iphone 5 / 5S , Octa is higher level.
Better don't look this if you'r Iphone fans
 
 
[ This Message was edited by: Sassho on 2013-10-25 06:07 ] |
cu015170
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
Posts: > 500
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for 2013 models
1020 -----------> cota/5s/g2/z1/ |
Sassho
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: > 500
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On 2013-10-25 08:45:52, cu015170 wrote:
for 2013 models
1020 -----------> cota/5s/g2/z1/
Yep , but applies to 1020 with normal lens , this's realy impossible thing 
..only as information
Note 3 Octa
S4 Octa
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davidsic
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Belgium
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Say Galaxy S4 and stop saying octa everytime...it's ridiculous 
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Sassho
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: > 500
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On 2013-10-25 12:09:07, davidsic wrote:
Say Galaxy S4 and stop saying octa everytime...it's ridiculous
No no , I find The True
The i9500 has a Sony IMX135 (Exmor RS) , the i9505 has a IMX091PQ (Exmor R)
Check this and compare images
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2283201
Differences between the two cameras are clearly visible - look on wall , grass , tree. If you a possible change phone to Octa, do not waste your life New guys with Octa's comming here soon.
 
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false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
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On 2013-10-25 05:32:20, cu015170 wrote:
Less noise indeed..
Smart move to compare the most left area of the 1020, and due to different framing, the respective area is the not the most left on the 808. And why compare left areas while both phones focused on a different subject at the center of the photos?
Here is a comparison of these two photos you made. All crops worked out in LR. All crops at 1:1 unless mentioned otherwise. 808 always on left.
1. In this crop, zoomed in to the main subject, both images untouched:
Notice how the 1020 resolved more detail. It did a very nasty job managing the colors though. WB is not way off this time. But extreme tinting, and the yellow hue is off.
2. Same area, now adjusted the 1020 colors only. Added a bit of contrast as well.
Now it's even clearer how much detail the 1020 resolved compared to the 808.
3. Same area, now colors adjusted the same and also smoothed out the sharpening effects while retaining detail:
Now the 1020's image is cleaner and with more detail.
4. Same area, now added even more sharpening while removing all noise:
Notice what the sharpening does. These are the artifacts you are complaining about. More on it further down.
5. Zoomed in to different area. Still around the center of the image. 1020 with only adjusted colors. And highlights brought down on both phones as they clipped certain areas in this crop:
Notice how you can easily read the text on the display with the 1020: Asus Vivotab etc.. While you can't with the 808.
6. Same area, now smoothed out the 1020 image:
Even then, you can still read the text on the 1020!
Here are the three adjusted photos of the 1020:
Colors only: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/rsh5.jpg/
Smoothed out: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/b43y.jpg/
Oversharpened: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/30/ntr4.jpg/
Now I took the 1020 image, applied different effects. On the right pushed the sharpening slide to the max. On the right added noise grains (an effect in LR simulating same natural sensor luminance noise). In other words, comparing noise grains versus sharpening grains:
1. Noise slider pushed to 33%:
2. Now zoomed in to 2:1 :
3. Now pushed the noise slider all the way to the max:
Got the idea now?
[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2013-10-25 14:40 ] |
false_morel
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 375
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I mixed up the order of the images in the original post above. Imageschack renames the images on the site. Anyway, put the right image under the right caption now. All sorted out. |
Sassho
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: > 500
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Dear false_morel don't waste you'r time with compares between 808 / 1020 - no way. 1020 has very ugly sharpened image , photos looks pretty only to 5mp and if not look on 100% zoom. With such horrible postprocessing and lens build 1020 / Z1 stay far far away from Octa or Iphone 5S quality.
[ This Message was edited by: Sassho on 2013-10-25 14:45 ] |
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Posted: 2013-10-24 21:33
