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Author iPhone 3GS vs X10 Mini Pro vs. something else?
Mano82
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Posted: 2010-07-21 11:14
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On 2010-07-20 22:55:46, epdm wrote:

Oh boy. Droid fanboys and iPhone fanboys.

Well let's compare to the really unpopular and oldest smartphone OS. Windows Mobile 6.1 (yeps, the ugly one).

1) Windows Mobile is always been able at multitasking. It's first incarnation in 2000, then called Pocket PC 2000 was able to multitask.

2) Windows Today screen also has everything on a single screen. It shows in the most simple and most unobtrusive way all relavant information (in a simple vertical list). From unread messages, appointements, tasks, wifi, bluetooth etc... In many cases you can toggle the state of things (like BT and WIFI) directly from this screen without returning to the settings-screens. There are real-time pop-up bubles (or notification icons on the top-bar) of incomming calls, missed calls, SMS messages etc.

Additionally there are many today customisation-program (from independant 3rd party developpers sold directly to end-users) which shows even more widgets, clocks and so on...

3) all this "store" or Marketplace is pure evil. It nothing more than a control mechanism from either apple or google to either enforce censorship (apple) or push advertisment (google) or both. Trust me. At one time in the future google will start to bombard these android phones with adds. They just keep a low profile for now until there's enough marketsaturation to make this scheme worthwile.

Windows Mobile works like the PC world. Third party developpers have a change to directly deal with customers or with assorted retail channels. Just like with regular PC software. This allows more freedom for small indie developpers.No censorship or dictators who decide whether your app is suited for the "market". Customers have the full freedom to buy/download/install the app.

4) Notifications are handled very well with WM since 2000. With pop-ups, icons on the bar, audio and recently vibration and LED's. All user selectable from the settings screens (sounds & notifications). This is an integral part if PPC/WM since it's beginning.

5) There's a bewildering choice of hardware. Today WM runs on 3.5" QVGA (or WQVGA) upto massive 4" screens with 800x480 pixels (HTC HD2). With several ARM-based acrhitectures upto 1GHz snapdragons cpus. That's what I call choice!

6) Sure, but you can't do it easy. You have to "root" the device. This is nothing less than "jailbreaking" in Apple termininology. There's an astonishing community who creates custom ROM's for WM. Far more than you have for android. These ROM's are very straightforward to install in Windows XP. Download, doubleclick, plug in the WM-device and turning on while pressing one or 2 keys.

7) The same is true for that ugly, yet very functional, WM6.1. In fact while Google with there next releases will make sure that 3rd party UI will be impossible. WM has an amazing amount of free (not as in free beer but free available without censorship) UI's. Each adding more features or making things easier to handle without going to the strandard UI.

In fact this standard UI that many find so ugly was designed for pen-input due to it's handwriting recognition. This works fairly well and unfortunatly this is what everybody seems to forget!!! The UI was not designed for finger usage though you have the ability to create other (fingerfriendly) UI's on top if it. Nobody will hold you back, censor you or stop you. In fact it's the more encouraging platform to design UI's for.

Andoid sucks with regards to internetworking! You can only have one lousy pop-email account. While email is the hub of most computer to computer communication and smartphones are companions to PC's (though many ppl seem to forget this). You're limited to Google's cloud for anything else. In WM 6.1 I have 3 POP-emails, hotmail/live email, exchange email, SMS and MMS all in one program. I can add more pop/smtp accounts with any ISP I choose. Pocket Outlook is one o/t best mobile messaging programs and yet because it's not beautifull enough ppl don't like it. How stupid is that?

As for Facebook/twitter. These can be handled by third party apps (on WM, Symbian or iphone for that matter). Why must everything be build in. WM is multitasking so it's perfectly alright to create a Facebook/twitter client and let it interact with the e.g WM today screen. Again, the fact that these are not supplied as standard is an OPPORTUNITY, ppl! This is YOUR change to build that killer-app. The same can be done with other fashionable items which are today hot-items and can be gone tomorrow.

9) The same is true for Wm devices. They cost a fraction of the iPhone yet no-one brags about this fact.

I think credit should be due Microsoft (and Symbian) as well. They opened the path to modern smartphones. And even in the case of WM6.1 it actually holds up pretty well. Especially when practical usage as a communications tool comes to mind. Though the standard pen-based UI might not be everyone's cup of tea. This can easily be changed with free available UI replacements/enhancements. Some with a good looking fingerfriendly workings.

Yet everyone keeps bragging about how great android and iOS is. Oh dear. What happened to common sense?



Oh boy, WiMo fanboy..

First of all it was an article published in Norwegian newspaper where they compared iPhone & Android, nothing to do with Windos mobile. And right now every one is comparing iPhone & Android, Windows Mobile is very low profile. May be it'll be again hit after release of wM7. And i've never used any Windows mobile, so can't say much about that..

1- It was never stated thet it's only Android which does multitasking. Comparing iPhone & Android, Have to tell about iPhone which doesn't do multitasking.

2- Same answer as first one.

3- There is no censorship in Android market either. And we'll talk about bombard advertisement when google enforce it.

4- Same answer as first one.

5- Should i tell about a huge range of Android mobiles or can you google yourself?

6- I don't know about Jailbreaking, can you use custom rom after jailbreaking? Anyway, many Android mobiles are already rooted & many use custom rom. Android is newer than iphone & WM, not strange that there are more custom roms for WM mobiles.

7- Same answer as first one.

8- About e-mail etc, i've not much knowledge about. Whan talk about social websites, article states "and is not close to making it as stylish as the Android performing."
max_wedge
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Posted: 2010-07-22 05:35
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not a winmo fanboy - he's just pointing out some common sense. Winmo has been doing what all the others are claiming is "new".

All that iPhone and Android offer is polish, you can't actually do anything new with either that we haven't been able to do for years on winmo and s60.

Once winmo 7 comes out I'm betting that iphone and android will lose a lot of their gloss.

re: jailbreaking - you don't need to jailbreak a winmo phone. You can write programs to do anything you want = there are no artificial lock outs. Cooked roms are not "jailbreaking" in the winmo world, they simply allow newer winmo versions or features from other oems to be ported to existing handsets. In android and iphone, you have to jailbreak just to install some programs that google or apple think you shouldn't.

That said, I hope Microsoft drop this stuipid idea that winmo7 won't support external media (sd card slots), otherwise there will be some rom cooking to be done.
Kimi
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Posted: 2010-07-22 08:28
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In android and iphone, you have to jailbreak just to install some programs that google or apple think you shouldn't.
Well thats true for the IPhone but not for Android. There if you have the APK file of an app you can install it via the SD-card or email without any problems out of the box.

And you can develop apps and let them run on any Android for free. The (potential) restrictions only apply if you want to distribute your app via the market (something which WinMobile never had).
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-07-22 09:44
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Max wedge
What new thing has Android claimed to have brought in?
As pointed out by Kimi, in Android you dont need to "jailbreak/hack" to install apps from outside the store/market ,funny thing is you're an s60 user and at some point you'll have to do the whole hack thing just to install some software.
Cooked ROMs do the same in Android as they did on WinMo.
Android may not do new things over the oldies BUT it does most things better,and is getting tons of support.
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max_wedge
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Posted: 2010-07-22 14:58
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On 2010-07-22 09:44:00, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Max wedge
What new thing has Android claimed to have brought in?
As pointed out by Kimi, in Android you dont need to "jailbreak/hack" to install apps from outside the store/market ,funny thing is you're an s60 user and at some point you'll have to do the whole hack thing just to install some software.
Cooked ROMs do the same in Android as they did on WinMo.
Android may not do new things over the oldies BUT it does most things better,and is getting tons of support.


The whole point of rooting an android phone, is to install apps whose features won't work on a non-rooted handset. Nothing to do with installing outside of the market, and I never said it was. On winmo phones, you don't need to root/jailbreak the phone. (though with Windows Phone 7 we may for the first time need to jailbreak - this link gives a good run down: http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-7s-future-jailbreaking/)

A cooked rom is not jailbreaking - it's taking a firmware version intended for one handset and installing it on another. This gives the features of that handset to the handset you install the rom on. Rooting/Jailbreaking involves opening up the platform so that software can access areas that were never intended by apple or google to be available to developers and end users. Two completely different processes.

BTW, I'm not an "s60 user", I'm an SE user, and the Satio is the only s60 handset I find usable, even the Samsung i8910 doesn't cut it for me. The Satio UI is much nicer than your average s60 and compensates enough for the slowness of s60 to make the phone a joy to use, something I never felt with Nokia s60s. My preference is that Satio had been a winmo phone tbh. Your point about s60 and software signing is valid - I totally agree. It's stupid. You don't need to sign software to run it on a winmo device.

Oh yeah, I don't have to hack s60 to install apps - I can sign them myself with free opda certificate No hacking, No jailbreaking!
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-07-22 17:23
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Max Wedge
As said before,there is ROM Cooking for Android,if i remember correctly there are HTC Hero ROMs for the HTC Magic,theres also unofficial Froyo ROMs for the Desire etc...as said before ,Android is young,so all this is still not as big as it was in WinMo,but it is happening.
As far as i can see rooting is to add features that arent YET in the Android version e.g the whole installing apps on SD thing which will be fixed in Froyo, other than that no other major thing is impossible on a non-rooted Android.
Yes ofcourse,the certificate that you have to give away your IMEI for and then wait until its generated then after that you have to sign the app before you install it,on Android you can install any app with .apk extension straight away,only app that required a root was a screenshot app and even for that theres an alternative for non-rooted phones so no loss.
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Mano82
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Posted: 2010-07-22 18:02
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On 2010-07-22 05:35:30, max_wedge wrote:
not a winmo fanboy - he's just pointing out some common sense. Winmo has been doing what all the others are claiming is "new".


No one has claimed that all android does are new. Article i posted was comparison BETWEEN iPhone & Android, so it was natural to point out things Android can, but iPhone can't.
max_wedge
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Posted: 2010-07-23 06:11
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On 2010-07-22 17:23:25, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Max Wedge
As said before,there is ROM Cooking for Android,if i remember correctly there are HTC Hero ROMs for the HTC Magic,theres also unofficial Froyo ROMs for the Desire etc...as said before ,Android is young,so all this is still not as big as it was in WinMo,but it is happening.
As far as i can see rooting is to add features that arent YET in the Android version e.g the whole installing apps on SD thing which will be fixed in Froyo, other than that no other major thing is impossible on a non-rooted Android.
Yes ofcourse,the certificate that you have to give away your IMEI for and then wait until its generated then after that you have to sign the app before you install it,on Android you can install any app with .apk extension straight away,only app that required a root was a screenshot app and even for that theres an alternative for non-rooted phones so no loss.



Of course there are cooked roms for android, but nevertheless rom cooking and jailbreaking are two different processes. You don't need to jailbreak a winmo phone. You do need to jailbreak an android phone if you want to do things such as wifi tethering, task manager to kill programs that Android won't let you, backup apps to sd card, relocate installed apps to sd card, relocate browser maps or market cahce to your sd card, alter core apps and many other things. All possible on winmo without anykind of jailbreaking (or rom cooking for that matter), infact usually just a registry tweak using total commander or the like (which can be installed without signing or "jailbreaking").

Re: the certificate for s60, yes I have stated, I agree it sucks. I'm not arguing about that. But I can get around it without jailbreaking, my only point. The equivalent to jailbreaking in s60 would be something like helloOX, which does let us install apps without signing. But on the whole, provided the developer can sign their apps, "jailbreaking" is not needed on s60 to do things such as wifi tethering or installing apps where the hell I like.

max_wedge
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Posted: 2010-07-23 06:20
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On 2010-07-22 18:02:55, Mano82 wrote:

On 2010-07-22 05:35:30, max_wedge wrote:
not a winmo fanboy - he's just pointing out some common sense. Winmo has been doing what all the others are claiming is "new".


No one has claimed that all android does are new. Article i posted was comparison BETWEEN iPhone & Android, so it was natural to point out things Android can, but iPhone can't.


Yes, sorry you are correct, my bad. All I intended was to support his statements about winmo. I'm not saying YOU specifically are claiming Android does new things, but people out there clamouring over Android often get carried away claiming Android can do the things iPhone can't and lauding this is the proof that Android is the best phone OS available. Being better than iPhone doesn't proove better than winmo, which I think is what epdm, and myself, are trying to point out.

Sorry if I appear to be arguing with you, not intentional
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-07-23 09:38
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Max
Like i said,rooting is there to add things that arent YET in the Android version, Froyo brings in wifi tethering. Ive come across many taskmanagers that allow me to kill any app including hidden processes,so what do you mean?
Ive currently got an app called MyBackUp Pro which backs up all my apps,games,current homescreen set up,contacts etc...to SD, so again what are you on about?
Rellocating installed apps to SD is coming as well, in Froyo.
Some apps store their Cache in SD, most large games store their data,and game packages on SD, its down to the developer.
Altering core apps yes would probably require a root, but why would you be doing that? in s60 you would need to hack for this as well,so only WinMo would allow it.
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AbuBasim
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Posted: 2010-07-23 10:02
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On 2010-07-23 06:11:53, max_wedge wrote:
But on the whole, provided the developer can sign their apps, "jailbreaking" is not needed on s60 to do things such as wifi tethering or installing apps where the hell I like.

And on S60 we didn't have to make up new terms for things that have been around for a long time. I used JoikuSpot on my E90 back in the days. And this is just an app you install. No need for jailbreaking/rooting.

With the iPhone I use today, I have to jailbreak to be able to install the same functionality (MyWi). Whis is why I will leave iPhone and not switch to iPhone 4. (My phone is unlocked so I can use Bluetooth tethering but this is slower than WiFi.)

The iPhone was originally not intended to run apps. Jobs wanted it only to run web apps. When everyone started screaming about this he introduced the app store and the iPhone SDK but just to spite people he made all apps run in a chroot jail. Now data sharing between apps is not possible since each has it's own protected directory structure making it very difficult to add basic functionality missing in the phone. One example: I have DocsToGo installed for viewing and editing MS Office documents. I can't beam these documents to another phone since DocsToGo itself would require support for Bluetooth. You can't install another app specially written for Bluetooth beaming that could access the files stored by DocsToGo.
[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2010-07-23 09:10 ]
Tsepz_GP
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Posted: 2010-07-23 10:30
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Thank goodness theres nothing like that on Android, some apps recommend other apps e.g Dolphin Browser recommends the Bookmarks To SD app,you click yes and it opens the Market and takes you straight to that app, some apps will mention that they will use a certain app thats already installed etc...
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max_wedge
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Posted: 2010-07-26 04:11
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It's true there is a lot less restriction on Android compared to iphone. And yes Froya is a vast improvement.

While Android is currently more restricted than winmo, after the release of WP7 the tables will be turned with Android probably being the leading "open" mobile OS. WP7 looks to suck bigtime which is a major disappointment from Microsoft.

@abubasim, your docstogo example is exactly why I don't like iPhone. I mean why can't all apps share the same storage? How antiquated is that? And why no bluetooth transfer? Or wifi tethering?

tranced
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Posted: 2010-07-26 04:23
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@max_wedge: it's Froyo
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max_wedge
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Posted: 2010-07-26 06:55
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better than what I first thought it was: frodo
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