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Author Sorry guys, SE blew it!
Sony α
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Posted: 2008-01-02 12:14
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I feel that Sony Ericsson need more innovation in their products offerings. Right now, they are lagging behind in an over saturated CaneraPhone market, which they should really be dominating - I mean, the K850i came late, and has lost to the N95 - to make things worse, the K850i does not take advantage of Sony's technologies and keeps on churning out the same system as the K750i (Which in no way was a bad phone).

I am seriously considering selling my K850i (which as some of you may know, I have modified by removing the Glass lens cover due to the bad dust issue) - and going back to using my old S700i - which was in fact the only SE phone primarily engineered by Sony rather than Ericsson.

As a design student, I am very interested in the Ergonomics of a phine, and the material quality - the K850i fails to meet expectations in some areas - come on Sony Ericsson, this is your FlagShip model, it would be like BMW putting out a 7er with the interior of a much lesser car!

We need to see a phone with the specifications of the Sony Ericsson SO905iCS from Japan - thats where things will get interesting - when Sony take a more active part in R&D with Ericsson - I can guarantee the SO905iCS shoots better that the K850i - and the N95 - and to make matters so much better for Sony Ericsson, it has a 3x Optical Zoom.



Sony α
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Posted: 2008-01-02 12:18
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Sorry Guys,

Thats the SO905iCS above.

Just to add though, the T650i is a beautiful design, it eats the T610 copy Nokia 6300 alive - but it should have been built for more weight, better build quality with pure steel rather than just a coating - plus the Volume keys are just a failure with regard to ergonomic usage - the back cover has some play in it - its just poor build quailty, but the Design is just perfect - I wait with baited breath for the new T series flagship with JP8 and hopefully, better build quality!
bearcub24
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Posted: 2008-01-02 12:53
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I'm just going by my experience, most phones (not all) made in China have had build issues. I agree Nokia had many build problems with the N95 I had one to replace the numerous poor K850 I've been sent and sent straight back and mines ok maybe I was lucky. I've no axe to grind with SE phones the K750 I had was a fantastic phone. Manufacturers build in China for many reasons but I would imagine the main would be a near limitless supply of cheap labour.
Erotomaniac
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
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Posted: 2008-01-02 12:59
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On 2008-01-02 11:55:55, Boinng wrote:
Even in non-smartphones, people used to the way SE's standard phones do things (like text, navigate, take pictures etc) are going to have a natural preference for the next in the same line. It's obvious that if you loved your K800, you're probably going to want to love the K850 as well - it's only after it dissapoints you that the "loyalty" spell is broken. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to understand.

I actually understand why people have brand loyalties, my question was somewhat rhetorical. (to me atleast heehee)

And what I quoted from you is exactly why I said brand loyalty is not smart. Instead of testing first a phone to see if it will meet your standards, some people go ahead and buy it expecting it to deliver like the previous one. Then the phone disappoints and they feel shortchanged coz of what they've spent for it and betrayed coz the manufacturer did not really deliver a "better" one as "they are supposed to".

all i'm saying is, keep an open mind on this matter. you never know what the future holds.


[ This Message was edited by: Erotomaniac on 2008-01-02 12:02 ]
anonymuser
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Posted: 2008-01-02 13:35
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On 2008-01-02 12:59:48, Erotomaniac wrote:

I actually understand why people have brand loyalties, my question was somewhat rhetorical. (to me atleast heehee)


It wasn't phrased very rhetorically

In any case, what you say next reveals again that you don't understand why brand loyalties both exist, and will continue to exist...

And what I quoted from you is exactly why I said brand loyalty is not smart. Instead of testing first a phone to see if it will meet your standards, some people go ahead and buy it expecting it to deliver like the previous one. Then the phone disappoints and they feel shortchanged coz of what they've spent for it and betrayed coz the manufacturer did not really deliver a "better" one as "they are supposed to".


Firstly, it's actually extremely difficult to test phones first. I don't know if you've noticed, but all the phones on strings in the phone shops are fake. To actually try one out for real, you have to start begging for favours from pushy salesman, and even then you're very limited in what you can actually do with a phone for five minutes, in a shop. Will such "testing" necessarily tell you that the K850's camera isn't quite what it should be? Probably not. Will it show up a core instability in a new OS? Possibily, but quite probably not. You only really find these things out, and realise exactly how much of a problem they are, days or even weeks into use.

You seem to be arguing that people are wrong to let their experience of the quality and utility of a previous Nokia, or SE, or Samsung inform them in their decision in buying a new model from the same manufacturer. Why? Is it unreasonable to expect a K850 to be better than a K800, or a P990 to be better than a P910? Is it unreasonable to be dissapointed in SE, and be more inclined to look elsewhere, when this doesn't turn out to be the case?

If you've previously been pleased with SE's quality of design, innovation, and customer support, is it really silly to be favour a new SE phone? Likewise, when you become displeased with the same, is it unreasonable to put SE at the bottom of your shopping list?

all i'm saying is, keep an open mind on this matter. you never know what the future holds.


True, but the real story here is that the "brand loyal" people you're trying to poke fun at have actually turned out to have completely open minds, hence their abandonment of SE in the last year. The truth is that for most people, brand loyalty is a transitory thing - it can build up over years, but be gone in an instant. All it takes is for that brand to take their eye off the ball, as SE did throughout 2007.

That doesn't mean to say that SE has lost all our custom forever, but it does mean it has to work even harder to get it back - not because we don't have "open minds", but precisely because of that fact.

[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-01-02 12:51 ]
bart
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Posted: 2008-01-02 13:58
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On 2008-01-02 12:12:38, Dogmann wrote:
@Bart

You keep on repeating this opinion of yours that to use Sat Nav it requires a touchscreen and every time i ask you to explain just why this is so you go silent, not once have you explained why or given a valid reason. So go on brake the habit and enlighten us all as to why in the world you need a touchscreen for Sat Nav? As for the last 18 months i have been using Sat Nav without a touch screen with no difficulty or lack of functionality at all. I enter the address or postcode and it navigates what possible use is a touchscreen for this?

Marc

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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-01-02 11:12 ]


ok, never saw you asking it before.
all of today's GPS devices that go in the car have touchscreens. Its much easyer to navigate.
while driving you can easly adjust the device, especially in some cars that have big windows. Buttons are to hard to reach, and to hard to press in.
The less time you need to focus on the GPS, the better.

Also if you want to navigate trew your phone, a touchscreen is much easyer, denpending on what you are planning to do.


oyea, my english isn't that great, been some time since i've posted long posts, and i've begun studying another language, so sorry.
With Ericsson and Nokia gone: we must keep their spirits alive and buy JOLLA or YOTA
Erotomaniac
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Posted: 2008-01-02 14:12
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Firstly, it's actually extremely difficult to test phones first. I don't know if you've noticed, but all the phones on strings in the phone shops are fake. To actually try one out for real, you have to start begging for favours from pushy salesman, and even then you're very limited in what you can actually do with a phone for five minutes, in a shop. Will such "testing" necessarily tell you that the K850's camera isn't quite what it should be? Probably not. Will it show up a core instability in a new OS? Possibily, but quite probably not. You only really find these things out, and realise exactly how much of a problem they are, days or even weeks into use.


come on man, I didn't mean you have to rely on just testing the phones. you have forums and review websites to go to for research right? you have friends and other people to ask. what i meant with that was do some research first.


You seem to be arguing that people are wrong to let their experience of the quality and utility of a previous Nokia, or SE, or Samsung inform them in their decision in buying a new model from the same manufacturer.

If thats all they're gonna base their decisions on then I don't see how very smart that is. True, nothing wrong with looking to the same brand for prospects but to actually buy on the merits of a previous product is just careless.

True, but the real story here is that the "brand loyal" people you're trying to poke fun

ey i resent that. I never poked fun at them. I gave a criticism.

[ This Message was edited by: Erotomaniac on 2008-01-02 13:15 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Erotomaniac on 2008-01-02 13:18 ]
anonymuser
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Posted: 2008-01-02 14:32
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On 2008-01-02 14:12:49, Erotomaniac wrote:
come on man, I didn't mean you have to rely on just testing the phones. you have forums and review websites to go to for research right? you have friends and other people to ask. what i meant with that was do some research first.


I just don't see who you're aiming this at - I "did my research" and walked away from SE, to the open arms of HTC, previous brand loyalty in tatters. That was (a) because SE's current range just wasn't (and isn't) up to scratch, and (b) because my past experience with the M600i hadn't been that great. Now okay, you can constructively criticise my purchase of the M600i if you like, but I did the research on that too. At the time it genuinely seemed like a good improvement on my old UIQ phone, and on UIQ itself (in the form of the new UIQ3) - but in prolonged use, it just wasn't that hot. SE mucked up with UIQ3, they didn't support it very well at all, and they embarrased the whole range with the P990. Software support for the P1 is still suffering as a result of the botch SE made of UIQ3's launch.


If thats all they're gonna base their decisions on then I don't see how very smart that is. True, nothing wrong with looking to the same brand for prospects but to actually buy on the merits of a previous product is just careless.


It's not careless, and its not the only factor in anyone's decision either, it's just a sensible thing to consider. If a company has treated its customers well in the past, then of course those customers are going to be more inclined to give them repeat custom, and the opposite is also true. I bought the M600i having quite a high regard for SE as a company and an innovator; by the time of my next upgrade that reputation was quite damaged, and if anything their customer care was a good reason not to buy SE again.

ey i resent that. I never poked fun at them. I gave a constructive criticism.


You've given a very confused criticism, on the one hand getting annoyed with people for having no loyalty to SE, and then getting on your high horse about brand loyalty being wrong in the first place. The people you're preaching to have already demonstrated that they aren't as blindly loyal as you want to suggest; they're simply people who bought SE phones when they were good, and haven't bought them since. If there's something wrong with that then please, explain...
EddieAdams
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Posted: 2008-01-02 16:22
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We need to see a phone with the specifications of the Sony Ericsson SO905iCS from Japan - thats where things will get interesting - when Sony take a more active part in R&D with Ericsson - I can guarantee the SO905iCS shoots better that the K850i - and the N95 - and to make matters so much better for Sony Ericsson, it has a 3x Optical Zoom.




[/quote]
I do not want a phone as big and heavy as the SO905iCS. I think the k850i is right at the size limit for a pocket-friendly phone. The SO905iCS doesnt have xenon flash. The k850 successor BETTER have 3x optical, ccd sensor, both LED's(video and torch) and xenon flash, atleast vga video, external slide lens cover( or another solution better than the current), wifi, come bundled with handsfree with 3.5mm jack, place light sensor where its unaffected by user.
All I want is a bad-ass camera, decent/good music, and a phone that can make/receive calls. In the end I will buy k850i once its issues are worked out but, making a phone that would have been a hit and clearly been the best for photos seems so simple and yet they failed to do so and were late in doing it.
Hello, Exactly!-Eddie Adams a.k.a. Dirk Diggler a.k.a. Brock Landers. Boogie Nights.
aqualung
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Posted: 2008-01-02 17:01
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plankgatan

so ones again...blew what ?????????????????


You've been saying this every couple of pages since the thread started, it's becoming tedious

I presume you're familiar with this particular English idiom (reference below)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/blow_it

In this case, if you want it spelled out, "it" refers to all of the following :

Their marketing strategy, such as it was
Their product line on high-end phones for 2007
A large chunk of their loyal user-base
Their reputation for making high-quality, innovative phones
And quite possibly, their profit margin for Q4.



[ This Message was edited by: aqualung on 2008-01-02 16:02 ]
Dogmann
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Posted: 2008-01-02 22:28
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Hi Bart,

Many thanks for your response although to be honest i don't really get what you mean, as i enter my destination and select calculate route then have no need to touch the devcie again especially not whilst driving as touchscreen or not as that is both dangerous and could result in points only license.

Marc

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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-01-03 00:15 ]
MWEB
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Posted: 2008-01-02 22:43
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It is possible to be loyal to SE without blinding one-self to failings that have been somewhat obvious by them over the past year or two.
Like all brands, they have good AND bad models within there range.
I like T650 and W960i, but cannot stand the K850i for example, what frustrates me, is the apparent lack of ambition by SE at the higher end of the market, i held off buying an N95 for a year in the hope of something remotely competitive by SE being introduced in that market sector, man i'm not immortal, but it seem's like i might have to live to pensionable age to wait for SE to present an all round winner for around £400
bart
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Posted: 2008-01-02 23:08
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@dogmann: where i live you need to adjust your gps quite alot while driving, trafic is slowly reported, alot of thimes some roads are closed due to placing new streets (don't know how to tell this correctly), and most of the times after a year or 4 the see that they've maned mistakes in the plannes and they changes those roads again. So gps servers are hard to stay up to date overhere.
And imaging driving, and you need to go to the toilet, or you are hungry, in some areas where their is no highway, you want to look for the closest town, so you need to natigate on your gps will driving.
With Ericsson and Nokia gone: we must keep their spirits alive and buy JOLLA or YOTA
darrengf
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Posted: 2008-01-02 23:28
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I have been reading many comments on Esato regarding the K850i for the past couple of months and are known on here by a few people.

I am a loyal SE fan and own a K850 (5th one) But i have to agree with many people on here regarding the K850i.

I dont think that SE blew it with the K850i, however the phone in my eyes is not a flagship model.

I am disapointed with the K850 and even though im lucky enough to have the brand new firmware R1DA038, while ths fixes many issues, there are still may more to be addresses.

The K850i is a disapointment, build quality is poor and i wouldnt expect creaking plastics on a flagship model. Every one i have had or even my friends have do the same. The battery cover on the model is poorly designed and im sorry to say the phone location of flash and af is also poorly designed.

This phone is turning out to be a headache for SE as well, 1 in 5 are being returned as faulty 20.2%

Marketing for the phone has vanished and its like SE are also embarased about the phone as well.

The phone will come and go and im sure that SE will release a new K series sooner than we think. For me the K810 is a much better and happier phone that the K850i will ever be.

Im not saying that the K850i isnt all bad, far from it, the screen is fantastic and the battery performance is gr8, but in respect of quality it isnt and this is what SE used to be good at.

Also Se must be eally upset, the Nokia N82 won Camera phone of the year.

Se used to be different and innotive, now all the other manufactures are leaving them behind on a big scale. No doubt Se will make a come back, but management changes i think need to change at SE to make it happen ?

What i do know is that the K800 and K810 will prob out live the K850i and I know that many SE K850i customers are now with Nokia.

Se its upto you now to win them back, I just hope that the replacement for the K850 is a massive improvement
bart
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Posted: 2008-01-02 23:37
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Its not only the K850 that blew it for SE.
look at all those low end phones that lack features against its competitors, not to mention the use of a nokia UI.
Mid level phones were ok.
High end phones, to few, only candybars, features behind the rest.
Symbian phones, to few, to late on the market, limited features.

designphones, SE thought it could make big profit like samsung by lauching normal phones with a good design. they forgot that SE users/fans are used to having good features and good quality.
Z310,S500,W580,W910 all design phones with a bunch of problems, and overpriced, sames as W660,K530,T650.

in terms of acc, nothing really new came out, nore new lines, like their upcomming business line.
sure they get a patent for a new thing every month, but we never see it hitting the market. it always takes years, while other company's have it before they got their patent registerd.

i warned SE on esato and talking to a sales rep during the last year. they failed to listen, what do I know.

well SE is has run out of time, my personal demands are simple, bring back Ericsson, or start losing money.
With Ericsson and Nokia gone: we must keep their spirits alive and buy JOLLA or YOTA
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