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Windows Mobile v/s Symbian OS |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
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lol agreed. However I think SE will have something decent for the M600 successor - at least I'm hoping so. N95 is a great package but its styling is not practical for how I prefer to carry my phone - jeans pocket, suit pocket underneath lappel. I'd have no use for a GPS system.
> M600 ... got a question on that device I've never seen answered on posts here or on any review. The keys ... are they a rocker (example the letter T, does it rock left for T and then right for Y? Also for the numbers on the same key is it a center push to make the number?!)
Thanks.
|AppleTV2|iPhone 12Mini 256GB|iPad Pro 256GB| Previously ...  K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded T68i). | |
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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On 2007-02-04 08:03:14, Prom1 wrote:
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On 2007-01-28 02:00:35, max_wedge wrote:
On your reasoning, Apple shouldn't have converted to intel, since it's not their own technology. Apple is far more proprietary than Microsoft, EVEN with a UNIX core!!! So PLEASE, if you want to dump on MS, then you should dump on Apple also. They are no better or worse than eachopther, they are multinational companies who only care about the bottom line. And that my friend, is how the corporate world works. |
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Just wanted to clarify somethings as Fact. Apple's Darwin is PURE open source, and based off of Free BSD4.1 > do a search of OS X on Apple's site > it'll even link you to the open source code listing.
I found this from the Apple.com site by clicking on OS X top right corner, then Tiger tab.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/overview/advancedtechnology.html
Then within there clicking on the link for "Unix Foundation" I found this. ...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/overview/advancedtechnology.html .
Apple's technologies - their version for Windowing, Core Animation etc etc is their proprietary code. I'll agree that they're MORE CONTROLLING of their intellectual properties & OS than any other company or organization, but stating their more proprietary > I must disagree as at least the core of the OS X underpinnings is open source. Btw its the most widely used UNIX OS amongst the consumer community. Also, Apple had a Windowing OS long before MS did. 3.1 didn't debut until after the Apple Lisa did (yes it was a Windowing OS that just slightly preceeded the Mac OS). However we ALL know it was Xerox that pioneered the window technology hence why Apple lost their court case of "windows", not Windows, hehe.
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On 2007-02-04 03:12:24, max_wedge wrote:
yes, right click is something apple just doesn't get. Having become accustomed to the ability to obtain a context menu by right clicking, it's a pain to do without it. It is VERY handy, and even more so on a small device like a phone.
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Apple has ALWAYS had right clicking in the Mac OS. Most ppl just didn't care to use it or realize it. Right-clicking as you know is a shortcut for the contextual menu (PC's have a key shortcut to do this, Apple has the Option menu key). 2 button support has been around since OS 7 - most ppl don't know this.
Sorry I didn't want to go down this path BUT there is a LOT of misconceptions going around. Back on topic.
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Okay I agree Apple is not MORE proprietary, but certainly just as much. Where are the free copies of MAC OSX? Can I install MAC on a PC via a free download of MAC OSX? No. I need MACOSX CD, and I would be breaking the licence agreement.
I'm just fed up with MAC users who for years now have been speaking crap about windows. It used to be stablility, then Windows 2000 came along and blew that argument out of the water. Then it was security, despite the fact that most of the weaknesses of windows relate to active x and java (easily disabled), not the core OS itself. I'm not arguing it's as secure as MAC, but I have many windows users with AV and firewall (btw Apple also recommend their users have AV and firewall installed) who simply don't have problems with viruses, malware OR stability. For my customers, this is the norm and not the exception. Stable, secure, hassle free Windows operation.
Now apparently Apple is free software???? I mean come on, can you really compare Apple Mac to a full open source variant of Linux with GUI of choice?  Now it seems Apple users want to claim they are part of the Open Source movement. It's a joke, especially when many of those self same people (not accussing you prom1, as you know I have a lot of respect for you dude, but others I know of aren't as sensible as you) want to use the open source arguement as YET ANOTHER apparently irrefutable reason that Apple is better than Windows.
Until a couple of years ago, APPLE was PURE proprietary software, and the fact that Apple kept a tight rein on development was LAUDED as THE REASON that Apple was better than windows (and honestly, poorly written generic software IS one of the most common causes of crashing on any OS). Now, apparently it's the reason Apple is better than Windows. I mean, can you see why this frustrates me? Keep in mind, I'm a windows tech who has at times managed more than 250 computers statewide without the crashing or virus problems Apple Mac users seem to think are rife on Windows systems, so I'm not speaking through my hat like sloopjohn did. Currently I have business customers throughout Brisbane who also have no stability or security issues with their PC's. With windows systems it's quite simple: run AV, run a firewall (outgoing and incoming), and don't use software that is unstable or has bad memory management. Who cares if Apple is less susceptible to those things. They also have about 10% (if lucky) of the software availability that Windows users enjoy.
Regarding right click, yep I did know about OS 7. But the context menu never seems that useful to me when I use mac systems. But I'm willingly to accept that may be just be personal preference issues.
However it IS relevant to the Symbian/WM5 argument, I think you will agree
As to windowing, well, yes it's Xerox isn't it? So what do MAC user's want? Windows to stop using windows? Then surely it follows Apple have to stop using windows as well? Bill Gates copies MAC and it's seen as poor business (yet it's actually good business - he is quite rich after all), yet Apple copies someone else and it's seen as Best Practice?
Please don't take this personal prom1, I realise you aren't dogmatic like many mac users. But I have had enough of the myths that those MAC user's love to spread, and the constant put downs of "dumb windows users". You don't see Windows user's running around denigrating Apple, yet Apple fans take this as a sign that even we think windows is worse than apple, but we don't. We just simply don't feel the need to be arrogant or conceited about our preferred computer system.
Whenever someone dumps on Windows without having a very good basis, I WILL respond. I mean, re-read sloopjohn's post. Do you really think he had a clue about what he wrote, or was he just repeating something he doesn't really understand? This is what I'm fed up with. Myths spoken as truth and the double standards that mac users apply. When it's okay for Apple, it's a crime if Microsoft does it. (I have been using pc's since DOS, and I know DOS and it's history inside out. I've used PC-DOS, DR-DOS, MS-DOS and quite a few others. Many many firms "copied" dos before Bill Gates did it, and afterwards as well)
I take your points about Apple's Darwin, and of course the context menu, but I stand by my criticism of sloopjohn's post.
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AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: > 500
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Simply speaking, OS X is Apple's opensource Darwin OS (based on FreeBSD 5 with Mach microkernel and bits from Jobs' NEXTSTEP). On top there is a closed source GUI and other goodies.
For more info, go to Wikipedia.
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Symbiatico
Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 212
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@ max_wedge
Been following this topic for some time and all I need to say is you make a good and sound argument.
People just like to denigrate other people's choices just to make them feel good about their own choices. Fact of digital-age 101.
As a Mac (and SE) user for as long as I remember, I have no need to speak ill about Windows or Nokia. I stopped doing that as soon as I felt it was taking me nowhere, and that my choice may not be other's best choice.
Use what you like, want or prefer.
BUT, let's not forget for a minute that Windows, and MS is general, would be lost were it not for the Apple OS 
They won't have anything to copy now, would they? |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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we would all be lost if it weren't for corporate conglomerates running around copying eachother. MS only copies that which their market say they want. They don't only copy Apple, there are many aspects of MS technology copied from here and there.
This is right and true and the way things should be. Yes the best of breed argument does apply, Apple do provide MS with the competition necessary to keep MS on their toes. But the reverse is true also. Apple have to make sure they stay just a little bit ahead, so when MS starts to gain ground technically, Apple have to re-harden their efforts also. Having a competitor like MS, who consistantly responds to the challenges offered by Apple, is good for Apple users too.
If two boxers were in the ring, and one started copying an effective move of their opponent, would this be considered "cheating"? Of course not, any move that is legal is allowed. And if the boxer who copied the move, ends up doing it better, then that forces the original boxer to improve as well.
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SloopJohnB
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: the blue planet
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Sorry max_wedge but the capitalist world seems a little more complex to me than a boxe match. Do you really think I care about feeling ´better´ than other people just because of the OS I use? I have better things to do, sorry. I wasnt saying Apple is ´good´ or the ´victim´ but u should see a movie called silicon valley, it really explains how ms and apple began. Lets also remeber that it isnt 'ok' for ms to have copyed Apple´s graphical interface just because xerox started the work first... Theres a difference between ´copying almost the whole idea' (ms) and ´offering apple stocks to xerox in order to have access to a certain lab for a certain number of days..." . Again, I´m not saying apple isnt a big capitalist company but I didnt criticize MS without knowing. My knowdedge of apple comes from having owned an imac and today i have a HP laptop. I criticize MS not only because they copy other companies but because they do it in such a shameless fashion thats its irritanting sometimes. Even journalists think the same, have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmOmdYPKJQ&eurl= (even the things gates says to be ms new stuff in defense have also been out there - mac os- for a very long time). Thats whats irritating, they copy the thing and sell it as they have done a revolutionary job in creating it. Most people use windows because they simply DONT know anything else. Thats why mac users tend to do this ´apple propaganda´, its not because we feel ´better´´ than anyone, dont try to weaken our arguments by distorting the reality into making us look like ´arrogants´. The mac community is very ´friendly' and they help each other a lot, dont say that. We are just trying to show something different to people so they can choose, whats wrong with that? U may prefer linux or windows or whatever, and thats fine. Whats wrong with prefering mac os? And saying TRUTHS about a company people are funding partly because they dont know what else is out there. |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
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@max_wedge,
First off thank you for understanding my posts & where I was coming from. Also many thanks as I too respect you as well!!
Secondly, I've only barely for limited of times (2mths on OS 7, and 3mths on OS X 10.1.4/5 Puma beta) but not SOLELY on Mac. However I do participate & read of Mac forums; As my next machine will be a Mac but also running WinXP (I'm still shy of Vista because of driver & hardware compatibility as it was with WinXP was for roughly 3mths before it was the standard for all apps & gamers especially).
Now this IS relevant > by the examples you've stated above > agreed Mac OS X does crash for quite a few users several times; and running WinXP as a seperate partition - if it has a kernel attack/trojan/virii will crash just like any OS. I MUST point out that January was the month of Mac Holes as an endeaver of a 3rd Indepent party was SKILLED and PROMISED to show a few more holes to Apple & its users alike > Apple has ALREADY made 1 update due to this groups findings for the month of January alone and more than 10 for the past 3 months. Their issues are with security loopholes just like WinXP has of lately. I haven't heard of WinXP Virii going nuts > except that Headline News center had 4mths ago > me I was running WinXP sp2 along with MS Defender and didn't have a hiccup.
TRUTH be told I've been running WinXP SP1 & SP2 for 2.5yrs collectively - SP2 more of those years - and have NOT had a virii/trojan/kernel panick YET! Nadda, ZILCH!
So I'm totally agreeing with you 97%; well 100% really. Just one thing that most ppl (Not yourself max_wedge; as I would be BLIND to pick you on this) often overlook with Apple. (NOTE: I almost quoted a post you made then reread it and realized I'd be in error in doing so ).
Apple is STILL a hardware company. The reason for OS X & every other OS was to sell hardware designs & products. Yes they make LOTS of software for their core OS, but their still hardware. However, this seems to be changing as their now Apple Inc not Apple Computer Inc. I'm wondering if that move was to thwart some analysts making the connection that lower desktop computer sales begins to trend every qtr for the last 2-3yrs; and had nothing to do with the iPhone announcement.
Now back to thread topic.
I'm thinking that the low software in the S60 & UIQ3 realm was due to the changes in the core OS = Symbian for security. I'm thinking that its not just because of the virii that mostly S60 encountered but also because how much MONEY $$$ (Kaching!) that 3rd party developers/company's lost due to IIRC & Bittorrent of Ngage games and other S60 software. I cannot remember more than 2 virii for UIQ2 that was devasting as apposed to several S60 virii.
I cannot wait for the next SE M600 upgrade just to see what SE can do to keep me off of WM5 Smartphone > although I still want one.
PS Today I saw someone using a TyTn in Ikea superstore and I was AMAZED at how quickly he made a phone call & how small this device truely was  !! WOW |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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@sloopjohn, I'm very sorry for taking you the wrong way. I'm sorry I misinterpreted your intention, I see now you meant no disrespect. But I still disagree with you about Apple and MS - they are both as bad and as good as eachother, and both offer excellent products each with their own drawbacks and advantages. Anyone who thinks the sun shines out of the proverbial of either of these companies needs a reality check. They are both out for your dollar, that's it. Both offer quality in different areas, this gives the consumer choice (which as you say is a good and right thing).
@prom1,
I agree with your points. M600 needs a camera and wifi, plain and simple. There needs to be more than only the P990 offering wifi and camera in one package. M600 is a good competitor against dedicated balckberry handsets, but without a camera and or wifi is a bit shy of features. Perhaps Wifi on M600, Camera on W950.
I need more hands on experience with M600 to make a conclusive judgement overall, but I think it's basically a very good package. Just gotta get that camera and/or wifi in there. Wifi is better than BT PAN, but M600 does have BT PAN, so home wireless is possible through a BT adapter (or if you carry a laptop anyway, you could connect the M600 via pan to your laptop while in an out-and-about wifi zone.)
But I must confess, that even though SE seem to be saying they support it, I haven't seen anyone report on the M600 ability to connect via PAN to the internet on your pc. Do you know anything about this? I may be wrong about the above paragraph.
If I'm right, my choice would be for a camera in M600 (esp. since it has 3G for broadband(ish) speed, which is available on reasonably priced capped data plans. Use BT pan at home and 3G with GPRS fallback while out and about). 200MB internal would be nice, but definately keep the memory expansion. Personally, for a touchphone device, I prefer handwriting recognition, so ultimately I prefer the XDA min form factor (direction pad and soft keys as opposed to keypad.) I call most people from my contacts list, so phone use isn't compromised buy lack of keypad. (though I use my K750 for day to day phone use. My XDA mini is for all other mobile computing needs.
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Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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Hi all,
after getting a little confused as to how this Windows v Symbian morphed into Windows v Mac.
I have used a TyTN for a week & whilst I will admit to being impressed with WM5 I have now returned to my Symbian N93 as I much prefer it for my needs even without a touchscreen. I find the Safari based web browser much faster & it displays pages better also. So as good as WM5 is now I much prefer Symbian well S60 3rd edition not UIQ3.
Marc
Blackberry Bold, V4.6.0.214, 8GB SDHC, Pin2553F455
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Posted: 2007-02-04 10:07
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