Posted by wapchimp
In the past few weeks there have many lame and childish posts (they maybe actually be from children - who knows).
I for one am starting to tire of this. I propose a 'sin bin' or yellow and red card system, or 3 strikes and yoooourr out, for users who are reported to any mod for posting abusive, childish and irresponsible comments.
I know this board can ban users but there has been to much of this going on a not alot seems to be done about it. The most common threads seem to be when ever the word nokia is mentioned.
Please DO NOT comment on se vs nokia here. There is garbage thread here for just that.
What does everyone think?
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[ This Message was edited by: orangeman on 2004-07-08 13:32 ]
Posted by energetic
I know exactly what you mean with your comments which are respected but you must admit that this system will be very hard to implement.
They have been some childish posts... yes. Some serious posts... yes. Some respected posts... yes. Some not true posts regarding rumours etc... yes.
But we must all understand that everybody is entitled to its own opinion no matter which they are. This is one of the rules of ESATO.
Every member has it reasons of been here either because they want to learn some stuff for their mobile or to find out when the latest SE mobile will be released or to learn and help others etc etc.
However there must be balance of everything. To learn, to offer, to help and to have fun sometimes why not?
Once again it will be very hard to create a system similar to what you are suggesting.
Posted by wapchimp
"Some not true posts regarding rumours "
I did that for a very good reason
This one in fact
Posted by Vlammetje
I can certainly see your point about non-productive or even counterproductive posts. However I gotta take a stand against a public sin-bin. If somebody gets a warning from mods or admin, there is absolutely no reason why anybody else should know about it. I think that would only trigger more conflict to be honest. And getting a warning or temporary can is bad enough without being advertised all over the board. It's an invite for more cheap shots in my opinion.
Posted by wapchimp
Good points vlam.
But blamed and shamed is an old remedy? You think this will not deter people from posting innapropraite stuff when they see their name on it?
Esato's bad board lol
Posted by bacanito
I understand your point about privacy, vlamm, but can also relate to energetic and orangeman about childish posts...What bothers me sometimes are condescending posts about some newbie asking a question and some Esato veteran will basically make him feel like an idiot...I even had some "veteran" tell me in pm that he was going to stop browsing Esato because I stood up to him in a forum after he had made condescending comments about someone else. That's AFTER he went on my Canadian forum to diss me.
Basically, people don't necessarily have to know about who gets slapped with a "red" and "yellow" card, although it would be amusing to see people's behaviours in the forums when everyone can see a red/yellow card underneath their avatar, BUT I do think that the mods should crack down on morons who THINK they know everything and are better than everyone else (most of the time, it's the opposite) and keep this a place where you can ask your questions without the fear of being shot down...
@energetic
ti yenesse
About your comment on opinions, yes, people have and will always have the right to express their opinions. But as a wise man once said (don't ask me who hehe) : It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it.
What do you guys think?
Posted by wapchimp
well said bacanito
Posted by Vlammetje
@ orangeman, that's not what i had in mind. What I think is seeing a small red card under ones name, might be seen by certain other forum members as 'carte blanche' to go and diss the 'carded' member.... which is ultimately NOT the idea behind a warning.
And don't come telling me we're all more mature than that, coz I think most of us are not.
And a 'card' system could easily discredit people even if they have changed their ways.
Once a crook always a crook
Posted by JAGUY85
There is a bit of everything here on Esato. The butt tight who get ticked off too easily and at times for no reason. You have the kids and the time wasters. I guess it goes for creating a balance. However, one thing that is consistent with all the groups is that most persons do not read. Either the manual or whatever. I think if most read it would alleviate a lot of the unnecessary and yes, the silly posts. All I want for Esato is a FACELIFT and more user friendly interface.
Posted by wapchimp
Vlammetje wrote:
And don't come telling me we're all more mature than that, coz I think most of us are not.
True - hence the suggestion. I feel as if I'm a teacher at school sometimes, when I browse on esato. Perhaps I'm getting to old
And a 'card' system could easily discredit people even if they have changed their ways.
Of course it could be removed,
Once a crook always a crook
Yoiu calling me a crook
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[ This Message was edited by: orangeman on 2004-07-08 15:26 ]
Posted by binoblaine05
I hope this system would push through!
Just a thought, this is multi-tasking for our mods reviewing all posts with Esato's growing family! (Do i get a yellow card for asking this one?)
Posted by bacanito
Just a suggestion:
I haven't read the terms of use (typical), but if it isnt specific enough about Esato DOESN'T want, then it should be...I'd go with Orangeman on the 3 strikes you're out part.
If it IS, then the rules should be enforced...
If people, such as me, don't read the terms, it's their problem, they have been given the opportunity to inform themselves.
Posted by energetic
I believe this will never be implemented. However I thing it would be a good idea the moderators to give warning through a PM and am sure the member will behave in a better way.
But what is the criteria for these warnings...?
Will it get better or worse?
Posted by bacanito
@ energetic
I received a warning once about some unapropriate pics on a thread, and now I know what I can and can't get away with...it shouldn't be more complicated than that...
Posted by slattery69
perhaps as memebers we should be more active in either pointing these threads out to mods who probably have a tough job going through all the posts as it is
or even getting invovled in the thread and asking people to calm down or point out that they are going over board.
i know its hard sometimes but i do agree recently (seems to be around the time a new se phone comes out or new nokia) that some threads have been totally over the top.
they have gone beyond people expressing opinion to just people insulting people because they have a different phone. also some people seem to enjoy making things up and i aint talking about orangemans thread which was funny and designed to prove a point.
i guess all memebers have a job to do in policing themselves
Posted by wapchimp
Very true mate. More PM's to Mods is what is needed
Posted by bacanito
once again, a call for common sense would be needed...Should this be the action taken, Mods most likely be flooded by irrelevant pm's to the mods, who would post less because being busy reading pms...it's a tough nut to crack, but through discussion, I'm sure we can find an agreeable solution...keep the feedback coming
Posted by slattery69
at the end of the day we are all members and have to all do our bit perhaps we all need to think a little more before we post and perhaps some people need to think alot more before they post.
nothing wrong with good debate but when it gets into a pointless slanging match its a waste of good space.
if people thought before they posted ie stuff like "oh its a blokia" and thats there some contribution. then surley we could cut some of this out if thats your view fine but at least back your view up otherwise it just becomes yet another flame war
treat others as you wish to be treat yourself
Posted by gazzaa
You are right orangeman and I do know of other forums who employ both ideas.It is frustrating and the sad thing is it is probably not kids.
Posted by Residentevil
This would mean more work for the moderators. They would have to police every post. You could argue "He/She posted this and got away with it, while I posted that and got yellow." Even if it would be non public there could be leakage. Impossible to draw a line. Feasible ?Yes. Realistic - I don't think so.
On top of that there is free speech and as long as you don't offend anybody that should be honored.
And who can throw the first stone here anyway???
And if you don't like it -> don't read it.
Posted by shyam335
I agree with energetic that mods sending warnings as pm. But i belive that we should respect the users liberty,unless they post something serious,i mean the things you mentioned or break a esato law. This is my opinion.
Posted by Lembo
I know I'm goign the other way on this but instead of 'kicking people out', how about a way of show how useful a certain thread is that the average Jo could give a rateing.
Maybe different colours.
It would be a lot of work for Laffen & Co. to intruduce any policing.
Posted by 50Cent
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by that last line are you suggested that they be kicked out alltogether, i.e. username removed etc or just suspended from using esato for a little while??
personally i think kicking them off totally is a bit extreme.
oooo, i just had an idea. When u get a "red card" you could have say 20 posts removed from ur count. That would deter a lot of ppl who treasure their "prestigous" post count. Thus reducing the total amount of pointles post. It wont eliminate it altogether but its a step in the right direction. Its kinda like a sanction.
Twista
Posted by bacanito
not a bad idea@lembo...care to elaborate a lil?
Posted by Lembo
Sorry bacanito, Haven't that far.
Posted by *Jojo*
Hmmmm . . . Looks like Esato's Discussion Forum would like to be transformed into a Soccer Game by @orangeman here
About those yello-red card, 3 hits/violations and you're out ideas, if that will be implemented in the very distant future - then I guess my days are already numbered here at esato 
! Looking back, I remember getting some sort of a warning from &^%$*& - I guess I already made a 3 'red 'lights' in my pms - so, that would just mean an ejection on my part as an esato member - right 
But I do agree, that there are some kiddos here who posts better than some of our mature members (me, included)! Very well versed people indeed The 'pm' thing would still do the job for the erring members I guess 
It is more likely/favorably to reprimand members privately than ridiculing them in public It will surely be the talk-of-the-town scenario here at esato if ever! I don't agree with the original plan
Also, with the Nokia vs SE comparison of products, I guess that should be left as an open debate here at esato. Admittingly, SE fones is far superior with those of Nokia fone models, but fone comparison should rest amongst the discretion of the members here at esato - let us not just forget that members are not 'obliged' to reply negatively with Nokia fones specs by any standard
It should just remain to be a friendly debate till the end 
[ This Message was edited by: jojo51069 on 2004-07-08 21:29 ]
Posted by wapchimp
I would say no to a total ban. But I know that ip addresses can be blocked.
@gazzaa - which forums are those - I will check them out
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[ This Message was edited by: orangeman on 2004-07-08 21:36 ]
Posted by tranquil
A system like that could fall both ways.
1. The "offender" takes the hint and calmes down. (Wich is the intention)
2. Members could squeeze others out of Esato by winding someone with a yellow card up to say stupid things that will make the red card come out.
The idea is not bad at all but I don't think it would work.
Posted by bart
i like this card idea.
but i think there should also be a gold and silver card for members who've been doing a great job.
and after awhile people with yelow cards should be redicussed so the card could be removed.
so in other words i'm FOR this
Posted by wapchimp
I love this smliie
Posted by kinc
Can you give a genuine red card offence
Posted by BobaFett
@masseur would miss the locks when the cards will be instead of them...
Posted by *Jojo*
@bobafett - Hmmmm . . . if that's so, I guess I'll better vote for the assumption of the new 'red/yellow-card-rule' here at esato mate
Posted by shyam335
But why not consider a ranking or grading system for each member m8s.(may be i be in last rank though)
Posted by energetic
I still believe that the PM warning will be the best. The moderators have their style of approaching someone without making the member offended in any way. This approach have been done to my self as well when I completely lost control in a way by posting some naughty pictures which are not allowed to be posted (XXX). Now the reaction from a member depends on how mature and sensible can be, so he will not repeat the same mistake.
Now if the case is for "Nokia sucks" etc... then I guess the only way to deal with it will be not to comment anything on that and let it pass by.
We have to remember the phrase "Everybody is entitled to his own opinion" and not to content oneself.
And dont forget the moderators are quite busy already reading every single post, checking if a topic already exists, keeping an order to the site and many other obligations towards ESATO etc. And besides all these at the end, they are giving important information and help all members.
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[ This Message was edited by: energetic on 2004-07-09 07:44 ]
Posted by kimcheeboi
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yeah id be on the esato official shit list too
what is esato, some kind of soccer game? It's perfectly fine the way it is and all this "card" stuff or taking away from a user's postcount is pretty pointless...
anyways, what would one of these yellow or red cards achieve? I, personally, don't think i would give a shit. But, every time @masseur or @tranquil or whoever ele PM's me I'm fine with that.
(sorry its 2 hours past bedtime)
Posted by pinolo77
I believe that a good idea would be to combine the two systems. You could PM someone to tell him or her he has gone too far (for whatever reason) and the person will be reminded of that by having a yellow card next to his or her avatar. But the yellow card should be visible only to the person and not to the rest of the forum.
So everyone knows how his "situation" is and can correct the behavior. Another thing I would like to say is that these "warnings" should also be reversible. If after a number of good posts, let's say 50, the person behaves properly, then the yellow card will disappear.
This solution might be very hard to implement, but I guess it could do the job (I think there is a need for that) without becoming some sort of public blaming and create suspicion.
If I had a card, then I heard a rumor or would like to report a bug, I think people might take my post less seriously, maybe without any reasons. Therefore the card, if there is any, should be seen only by the person who recieved it.
What do you think?
Posted by wapchimp
Thats sounds good
Posted by bacanito
@energetic
Been there, done that, post got deleted hehe maybe we can exchange some pics
Posted by scotsboyuk
I've enjoyed reading through this thread and some of the ideas presented are very interesting indeed. Before I go any further I would like to point something out; I suggested, some time ago, that members who consistently post helpful and/or useful advice should be rewarded with a custom avatar. The logic behind my idea is quite simple; people respond much better to rewards than punishments, in other words, prevention is better than cure.
Personally I am against any form of public humiliation, which is what a 'card system' amounts to in effect. The proposal of allowing only the person in question to see the appropriate 'card' defeats the purpose as far as I'm concerned. As has been stated before, if a member is publicly humiliated by being branded a trouble maker it will have a very detrimental effect on that member, which might not necessarily be warranted.
There have been a few threads of late, which have touched upon various aspects of this overall problem and I believe that the situation can best be described using the following points:
Some members are overtly concerned with their post count and will post as much as possible to raise it, more often than not resulting in large amounts of tosh being posted.
Some members take themselves, and Esato, too seriously, resulting in hissy fits and pathetic flame wars.
Some members don't take themselves, or Esato, seriously enough and constantly post tosh and 'humorous' posts.
Some members have very little common sense and/ or are very lazy and make no attempt to find the information they are looking for before posting.
Some members are arrogant and deride other members for asking questions, which in their view, are not valid.
The easiest way to circumvent these issues is to install a reward system for members who are helpful and polite and to abolish the post count so as to do away with an unnecessary waste of bandwidth that does nothing, save increase the amount of mince we have to read.
Posted by *Jojo*
@scotsboyuk - In a nutshell . . . . . . .
Posted by scotsboyuk
Case in point.
Posted by *Jojo*
Hmmm. . . case-to-case basis I guess
Posted by scotsboyuk
@jojo
I can see this developing into one of those situations where I shall be asking you what you mean a lot, therefore, to save us both a lot of time and effort, I shall simply ask you what your point is exactly; what exactly is your point?
Posted by wapchimp
Good idea scotboy - about the customer avatar. I'll take mine now
[ This Message was edited by: orangeman on 2004-07-12 17:06 ]
Posted by scotsboyuk
Well I have suggested it a few times, although nothing seems to be happening on that front.
Posted by *Jojo*
@scotsboyuk - What's my point
Hmmm . . . . . - Point of no Return 
Hellooooooo mate Neh, just making some 'patawa' here . . . language barrier
Posted by bacanito
I must say, jojo has to be the guy who uses the most smileys on Esato...and I still don't get it lol
Dont worry about it though, I'm not all there today..
Posted by *Jojo*
@bacanito - Who me
. . . I don't quite think so . . . I only get to know the use of these smileys for I think about 2-3 weeks now Had I just known it then, sure am the heaviest poster amongst all 
When I was just a neophyte here, I alway see @vlammetje's post with a number of the smileys from esato's archive . . . I guess she 'mellowed' lately