Posted by leew347
i no i aint n there aint n aint gonna b to much good luk for me *coff coff*
I have had sum gud luk tho
Posted by Vlammetje
what's that in proper english like what i learnt in school a long long time ago?
Posted by leew347
does ne 1 believe in god
Sry bout the first 1 I not been too good
Posted by MTNT68i
im catholic
Posted by Sammy_boy
No - not at all. I was once, and wish I could believe that some higher power was watching over us - but looking at some of the crap that's going on all around us, he/she/it is either on a very long lunch break, or non-existent!
I hope you realise as well is that this thread could cause one hell of an debate/argument and lead to some pretty colourful threads language-wise!
Posted by Bianca
I am not religious
Posted by MTNT68i
YEah is also a good way to start a loon and useless discussion.... whell there is something called the free will so dont blame the higher powers o no interferring
Posted by leew347
it will only cause arguments if ppl want it to. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
im feelin stressed. Lets argue.
im on the non religous side sry
lol
Posted by MaThIbUs
My parents still think I'm religious, ha ha. There ain't no God. There ain't no such thing as heaven. Life is what you make of it; no more, no less.
Posted by brownface
Im a muslim-but im not religious. On the other hand, im aware of my cultural and religious obligations. Mayb d reason im not religious is prob due 2 way those dickhead islamic fundamentalists have hijacked this religion for their own agendas.
Posted by joebmc
The big bang thing seems to be the only answer to me!
Posted by leew347
yeah the big bang theory is god but scientist think thy no of another way now.
Posted by masseur
my problem with religion (and I am a roman catholic btw) is that I am too pragmatic and need proof for everything before I believe. Unfortunately religion requires faith and though I have done catachism etc I still need that proof.
the big bang theory only relates to the state of the universe at any given time and indeed scientists believe there have been many 'big bangs' as the universe expands and contracts continually, and if that is true, and taking into account the conservation of energy laws, how many times has it occurred?
my problem comes in imagining what there was before there was anything, i.e. just a god, and I think we can go crazy trying to imagine what that might be
Posted by MTNT68i
Well said..... btw im Roman Catholic too.
Posted by JohnM
I try to visit esato daily, is the counted as religious?!
Posted by leew347
well if it is its the only one im in lol
Posted by BobaFett
I dont say there is no god, but dont believe in it. More there is sg a kind of power and untouchable inteligence what keep nature together. But i dont like if we try to put on a kind of sticky on it and call god, allah, jehova or whatever.
Posted by buckle247
i'm with massuer that i need proof and evidence before i can belive. But i really don't think that there is any such thing as a god, if you read the bible it is too far fetched to be true. Talking snakes, walking on water, turning water into wine. It all happpened a long time ago when people would belive anything and there were no scientists to proove otherwise.
Posted by Rui_Costa
I believe there is something out there. I can't tell what it is.... I'm not religous then?!
_________________
Don't drink the water, fish f**k in it
[ This Message was edited by: Rui_Costa on 2004-04-13 23:36 ]
Posted by axxxr
I agree with the previous point!..Relgion had been handed down in some shape or form from generation to generation..We are all led to beleive that the religion we are born into is the true path!.Who's idea was that goddamit!!..I am tried of looking at people killing or hateing each other because of there faith or belief..Why cant there be just one universal belief so we can come together as one!..Sorry im getting a bit philasophical here..lol..The human over the centurys have killed millions of each other all in the name of God!.And were all promised Heaven if killed for there faith!!..What kind of religion or god would encourage this??..God is supposed to be about Love and Peace!!..Anyway i could go on forever!...Thats why i'm a Agnostic.
Posted by leew347
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I truly agree with you. People Like hitler killing all the Jews.
its scum n pathetic
Posted by Rui_Costa
God gave humans free will. Then came politics!
Posted by BobaFett
Evidence? There is no one for or against it. It would like i would ask for the evidence that u like your mom. U cannot present me any, so i have to believe you. That is real faith and trust in sg untouchable.
Posted by Sammy_boy
I think that it's in human nature to want/need to believe in something - a lot of people have gotten disillusioned with 'traditional' religions over the last few decades, and there seems to be a sudden rise in all these 'eastern' religions and ways of life - things like buddhism, Feng Shui, and so on. It almost seems now that people pick 'n' mix their religions depending on what they believe in.
I at the moment don't believe in anything - and in a way it's driving me nuts! I guess I have a spiritual side that's totally unfulfilled, I am too questioning and cynical to believe in anything like religion I think as well that some of this was invented as we, as a people, can't cope with the fact that we all die and can't handle the fact that we would cease to exist... anyway, I think I'll shut up before this post gets too depressing!
Posted by axxxr
_________________
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" (Can't remember who said that but it's damned true!)
The problem is the rulers and powers that be are evil!!
Posted by Mohammed98221
I believe that there may be a god or creator but i don't believe in religion.i think its a human creation.its been with us since the begining,its like an in built instinct that we've developed just like the fear of spiders and i believe one day we'll grow out of it.and btw i'm not communist either :-)
Posted by gelfen
i disagree almost entirely with religion, but I am a firm believer in faith. religion is what you are told - to believe, how to act, who to associate with and, increasingly, who to destroy. faith is what you decide to believe for yourself. however, a key element of faith is doubt. without doubt, faith and belief cease to be an issue because it becomes a fact. if God was to undeniably prove His existence, nobody could believe anymore and He would lose a lot of his meaning to many people.
also remember this - any sufficiently advanced technology is no different from magic (imagine taking a cigarette lighter back to the time of cave men.)
Posted by Ayush
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Excellent! Capital example
I'm sure there is a God above. Because I'v experienced it.
Edit: Btw what exactly is Big bang? What does it do?
_________________
Umm...
T310 AND a..andah yes...nuthin 
A.K.A. "Sony_eric"
[ This Message was edited by: Ayush on 2004-04-14 08:36 ]
Posted by Vlammetje
big bang is the idea that because we 'see' the event in space 'now' (well.... lightyears away really) in what we think is the becoming of new planets (hi ho hubble
) this must undoubtedly be what happened to our own planet as well.
While I fail to believe there is some big entity that waived it's hand and suddenly there was earth, complete with humans on it..... i gotta say evolution theory leaves too many gaps to be scientifically sound
Since i am fairly sure dinosaurs did exist at one time... i do believe the story of creation as presented in certain holy books is somewhat besides the truth
Posted by Ayush
Some what exagerated
Posted by Sammy_boy
@axxxr - I agree, and being in a position of absolute power corrupts absolutely - look at 'Dubya' Bush! Also the idea of just one world faith is certainly appealing - no more wars fought in the name of religion!
@Mohammed - Unfortunately people in religion seem to have too much power and influence for us to be able to get rid of them or 'retire' them, but I wish that we could, so we could be spiritual without some diktat saying we can't use condoms, or eat a certain meat, or do this on a certain day.....
Posted by batesie
religion is stoking the fire between country. bush gives some boll#k$ about god being on americas side, and these people fighting the west are filled with hate, fuelled by a belief of what there doing is right because a book says so. but bush is the biggest threat to world peace, power junkie trying to finish what his old man started.
Posted by gelfen
"the big bang" is currently the most popular theory regarding the beginning of the universe - in it's simplest form the bbt (big bang theory) states that everything sprung from nothing in a big bang. some of the evidence for the bbt involves measurements taken of the relative positions and velocities of stars, indicating that the universe (or at least our part of it) is continually expanding and that galaxies are still being blown out of the "centre" (centre being a relative term given there are a few theories based on the universe being shaped like the surface of a toroid - or doughnut). apparently current measurements indicate that the rate of expansion of the universe is slowing and it has been postulated that once the expansion stops the universe will begin contracting under its own gravity, essentially reversing the cycle and ending in a "big crunch".
while i don't necessarily believe that an individual being caused the universe to pop into existence, i do believe something made it happen. i choose to keep an open mind about exactly what.
with respect to the creation stories, it is a widely held philosophy that they are metaphors used to simplify the story so that the uneducated, superstitious and generally more primitive masses would be able to understand where everything came from (and in no small way a handy excuse for varioius religious bodies do demand levies or "donations" since hey, God made everything so how about giving some of it back?). besides, if God in his infinite wisdom did decide to reveal to the hebrews how they came to exist on this world, do you think that they would have been able to comprehend the sublte complexities, dichotomies and downright bloody hard mathematics of quantum mechanics, super-string theory, and plasma physics? most people today don't understand it, so what did hope they have?
_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-18 07:15 ]
Posted by shibumi
A very educated answer... Why do u exist then?
Posted by Pitta Baainens
I'm a Sabboan... It's a sekt 4 non believers (like me)made by me...
Posted by boto43
I'm not a religious man though my wife is a daughter of evangelical priest or maybe that's the reason.
Posted by gelfen
| Quote: |
On 2004-04-18 08:37:47, rowenacruzcarlos wrote: |
i exist merely to cause irritation to others - much like the grit in an oyster creating pearls
_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-19 01:29 ]
Posted by pachy
I think religous beliefs are meant to be salvation for the soul, not to be confused with the science of our physical creation, Darwin pretty much sorted it all out with his (now widely accepted) "Theory of Evolution" & the idea of natural selection.
In short, i have no respect for the church & i think all religion is total B***ocks.
Posted by Sir-SonyEricsson-man
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I agree with you there... I'm a person who is very materialistic.. I know thats a bad thing. But i always feel that i have to have it correct, and thats a big problem for me.. I still think the most off the poeple around me don't like me
difficult to explain.. but thats the truth. example off that is the life i had as a small boy, often moving around, cursed that i never could make friendship with them around med, wich again made that a today have it not easy to make friends..
I often praied to gud and i feel that it had no work.. SO today i don't believe in that crap anymore..
_________________
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Store Manager @ Telekiosken Vestkanten
[ This Message was edited by: Sonyericsson-man on 2004-04-19 01:59 ]
Posted by gelfen
actually most of the creation stories were intended to explain the origin of life and the earth, but in simplistic terms so that people would understand them. if you look at the Christian creation story, the "Seven Days" pretty much align with the stages of the earth's development. all that is required is to look at "days" as "ages" or "periods of time", and not all necessarily of equal length (interestingly, there is a bit of evidence around to suggest that the earth's rotation has slowed with time) but which correspond to stages of planetary development:
Day 1 - God created the heaven and the earth, and night and day, or the cosmos, including galaxies, stars (e.g. the sun) and planets
Day 2 - God created the sky, or the earth began to cool and the atmosphere (albeit toxic and without oxygen) formed.
Day 3 - God created land to separate the waters, or the molten (liquid) surface of the earth cooled and solidified, and water condensed from the atmosphere allowing for the development of plant life (very primitive anaerobic algae)
Day 4 - God created the sun and the moon, or the atmosphere began changing so the sun and moon were actually visible from earth, and oxygen was formed, which led to....
Day 5 - God created fish and birds, or the development of life on earth (inlcuding more luscious plant varieties) starting from the most primitive single celled organism, through to oceanic and amphibious life, (and primitive reptiles which evolved into birds)...and finally
Day 6 - God created the other animals, Adam and Eve, or the development of mammalian life, culminating in the evolution of the human species.
Day 7 - God rests, creating the Sabbath, or it's all done so off you go and live on this big blue rock, and we try to answer all our questions about the previous 6 days (you know, the bits we weren't there to see).
it's interesting to note that in geological terms, each "day" was shorter than the one preceding it. as for evolution, well creation doesn't preclude evolution - it just summarizes it for the scientifically impaired. evolution (so far) always fails to answer one very simple question: what started it all in the first place?
something had to make it all happen "in the beggining". the what, how and why are yet to be answered definitively.
as an aside, here is a joke i find apt for people who complain about God not answering their prayers. every single person has the ability to improve their lot in life, it's just a question of taking the opportunities presented (or even just working bloody hard)
The Big Flood
It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.
As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.
The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.
Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-19 03:00 ]
Posted by Sir-SonyEricsson-man
Posted by batesie
yes and no... yes in a SE way. no in a 'i must do what this book tells me etc etc'....
Posted by Mohammed98221
@gelfen.i'm sorry but what u said about d seven day theory could be or meant to be is a load of crap.u can't just translate it like that,its totally baseless.believing in a creator that created everything is one thing,believing in a religious story about it is another.this is what i think of religion-it has either been created by a very clever person or a stupid god.
Posted by gelfen
i never claimed to believe in a "religious story". if you actually read my post you would see that said:
something had to make it all happen "in the beggining". the what, how and why are yet to be answered definitively.
you have completely missed the point. IT'S A BLOODY METAPHOR!!!
i wasn't trying to justify religion or God, merely that some creation myths aren't as far off-base as people try to make out. that means either the person who wrote them made a very lucky guess, or he knew what he was on about and was trying to simplify things (a lot) for a population too primitive to grasp the complex details: "I can't explain this in terms you would understand so let's just call it the mystic power of God for the time being, until you get a lot smarter."
you might think it's baseless, but i don't believe in coincidences.
"this is what i think of religion-it has either been created by a very clever person or a stupid god."
if you mean religion was created by smart person or stupid god, then i have two points. firstly, it doesn't require a smart person to found a religion (David Koresh, step forward please). secondly, if it's a stupid god then religion has instant credibility - being the worship of said god after all.
however, if you meant the world/galaxy/universe then i'm not arguing (except perhaps about the stupid part) because whatever "creator" put all this together needed to have a very profound understanding of the way things work. if you want to argue over the imperfections found in the world, an awful lot of them can be traced back to the "imperfection of man". many religions offer up some devil-type figure as the cause of all the world's evils, but again i consider that a metaphor for basic human stupidity coupled with the randomness of nature (and a tendency for us to blame anyone but ourselves).
i choose to believe that life has a purpose, which is not the same as saying that every individual has a purpose (although i'm open to argument on that too). part of the purpose of life may be to overcome our innate imperfecion and the random curve-balls thrown by mother nature. or it may be we've loused up our purpose so much that we are susceptible to these problems. either way, it makes no difference to the fact that something caused everything to come into being.
_________________
Gee, does that beat me? I only got two pair - two aces, and another two.
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2004-04-27 02:17 ]
Posted by haynesycop
lol well i aint religious at all....i suppose there could be something out there but i dont know what..........ALIENS mayb lol
Posted by scotsboyuk
@gelfen
Whilst I hate to disagree with you my friend I must in this regard; it is not necessarily a perquisite for something to have 'started' the universe or 'created' it in any way. It has been postulated that our universe may in fact be forever in a cycle of expansion and contraction; the Big bang may have happened countless times before and may happen countless times again, in theory nothing has had to start this chain of events.
It is also theorised that our universe is only one of many universes (not parallel universes) existing within a larger construct, which would then lead one into an almost existentialist point of view. At a basic level, our universe might not have been created by any higher intelligence, simply by act of nature. Of course one could then ask what created the larger 'membrane' in which our universe (and all the others) exists, which would be a very valid question. The creation of such a construct is beyond our ability to answer, even theoretically, with any certainty, since outside of our universe, the laws of physics may not necessarily be the same, or exist at all.
Physics is a human invention, a set of rules used to explain the way nature works in terms that our minds can understand. If we are speaking about something, which is outside of the laws of physics then we cannot expect physics, at least as we currently understand it, to be able to explain that something. To explain that, which is currently beyond science we must turn to religion and belief, we have no more accurate information than belief when it comes to dealing with such ideas, even if that belief is in a theory instead of a God. We haven't really advanced very far in relative terms since this is exactly what we have been doing ever since we started to wonder about the world around us.
Posted by Jim
I'm not, after 5 years studiyng science I can't imagine that a "god" can exists. What you might also think about 'how the universe started?' is: who did god if he made the universe, he must then come from somewhere ... he can't have appeared like that.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Jim
That is precisely the point I was raising in my last post, current scientific understanding assumes that all things have a beginning (though not necessarily an end), and this would then infer that God has a beginning. However, I think you are missing one of the points that I made, we cannot measure that which is beyond our understanding of science with the scientific theories we currently have available.
If there is such a thing as God (whatever God is) then we are assuming that it is beyond our universe and therefore beyond our scientific understanding. I am using the term 'God' here to mean whatever can be thought of as having 'created' our universe. The current laws of physic sonly really allow us to say what has happened, what is happening and what will happen inside our universe; they do not apply to anything outside our universe since we cannot measure outside our universe.
I am not a religious person, but I would have to say that at some point the 'God Factor' comes into play, that is, there comes a point at which we cannot rely on science for answers anymore, instead we must trust in faith, whether that faith is in a God or in a scientific theory. As our scientific understanding progresses we might be able to learn more about the origins of the universe and what may lie beyond it, but I would imagine that this would be long after we are all gone.
Religion is a continuation of science; faith is all we have when science can no longer provide us with facts.
Posted by gelfen
the How many of you are Christians? thread prompted me to come looking for this. damn i wish i had been able to get back to this thread at the time...
@scots: from what you have written it seems that you don't disagree with me, but that we area both on the same page. my point was that something caused the universe to exist - be it energy, matter, trans-dimensional physics, God, or even small furry creatures from alpha centauri.
Posted by PeterKay
so who is religous here?
I am definately religious.