The Malcolm threat! Its all about him and the respect everyone have for him! (he once killed a snake

On 2003-11-08 01:05:23, realz88 wrote:
ARE U BOTH ON CRACK....

'THY SHALL NOT USE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN'

I ADVISE U DELETE THIS THREAD

On 2003-11-08 01:08:12, God wrote:
Use it for good........and for good only.

On 2003-11-08 01:35:00, SnowBear wrote:
holy hell !!!!

On 2003-11-08 01:37:11, malcs wrote:

Quote:

On 2003-11-08 01:35:00, SnowBear wrote: holy hell !!!!

bit of a contradiction in terms there mate

On 2003-11-08 17:14:10, BlackBauer24 wrote:
Our life here on earth is very short so let us be kind to one another and accept the Lord into our lives. remember this; Jesus saves all who turn to him for the love of doing good, and away from evil.

This message was posted from a P800

if wanking is evil how can i know if BJ isent as bad?

On 2003-11-09 02:19:52, steelth wrote:
@malc: its always fun to read how the limited mind of the human being tries to explain the unlimited mind of God.

This message was posted from a WAP device

On 2003-11-09 10:12:55, shithappens wrote:
cud a mod put this thread in the Garbage Section...tq

On 2003-11-08 01:20:58, malcs wrote:

Quote:

On 2003-11-08 01:08:12, God wrote: Use it for good........and for good only.

well said god....


even though i dont think that there is any kind of physical way that you can exist. i mean i know that you may be a person that their extremely concieted parents decided to scrap the surname, and just call you god, or it may even be your title at work.. basically, god cannot exist because::::

1. God contradicts Free Will of all living beings including itself
A benevolent god all-knowing being only has one option in any situation, and that is the option that causes most good. Therefore a perfectly good all-knowing God has no free will. [View argument: God has no free will]
An all-knowing god instantly knows all of it's future actions and therefore has no free will to change them. A god with no free will is not moral. [View argument: God has no free will]
If an all-powerful and all-knowing God exists then this (by a long chain of cause and effect) denies any free will of any living being. [View argument: God denies free will]
If God has free will, but never chooses evil, it is immoral because it could have created life in the same way: With free will, but also never choosing evil. Therefore God must be immoral, not all-powerful or not all-knowing. [View argument: God is not moral with or without free will]
In total I have concluded that the existence of a moral, all-knowing and all-powerful God is in contradiction to Free Will in many ways; both for God itself and any living beings.


List Free Will Essays
2. Evil and suffering contradict existence of a benevolent god
"If God is all-powerful and all-good, it would have created a universe with no suffering and no evil. But, evil and suffering exist. Therefore God does not exist, is not all-powerful or is not benevolent. Attempts to justify the existence of evil are called theodicies. There are no fully working theodices, even popular ones such as the free free will theodicy were rejected thousands of years ago for reasons that still stand today. It seems that if there is a god, it is not the all-good moral being that classical religions would have us believe"
"Introduction to the problem of evil" by Vexen 2000 Jan 22


List Problem of Evil essays
Because evil exists, the existence of heaven negates the existence of god

"Is there a God? Is there a point to life before heaven? If God wants what is best for everyone it could immediately place everyone in heaven. If we want what is best for our children, we could kill them, and then God would send them to heaven because they were innocent. That we do not do this means that there is no God, no heaven, or that there is some purpose to life and evil. However, there is no such purpose. Babies who die (for example, in natural disasters) go to heaven, therefore there is no essential point of life, nor any essential reason that we have to endure suffering and go through the tests of life before we can go to heaven. This shows no moral God exists."
"Killing babies" by Vexen 2003 Feb 08

3. God was not the creator of the universe
"The existence of God is not enough to explain the existence of the Universe. If the Universe can logically exist, then no God is needed to create it. If it is valid to say "everything has a cause except God", it is more likely that everything has a cause except the Universe. If God doesn't need a cause because it is infinite, it is more likely that the natural Universe has existed forever and therefore doesn't need a cause."
"The universe was not logically created by god" by Vexen

"If God can make plans, think logically or exist, then logic is an arch-power that encompasses God and gives reason for god's existence which appears to refute the idea that God could be the creator of logic. The God as first-cause argument is partially undermined. If there is no logical reason why God exists then it is more likely that there no logical reason why the Universe exists, and that instead of assuming that the organisational force is a 'god', it's simpler and more rational to assume that it is the universe itself. It appears that whether God exists for logical reasons or not a fundamental contradiction occurs. The only answer is that creator-gods cannot possibly exist. Atheism is more logical. This is also true if God is placed "beyond logic". And if it is said that Human logic is incapable of realizing such metaphysical truths, then this also undermines any argument that can be made by one human to another, for the existence of god."

"God and Logic" by Vexen 2002 Aug 27

4. God is dangerous and religion is wrong
Revealed religion is wrong: (click to read full essay)
If God is moral then everyone has a chance to enter heaven. This means people who never learn which religion is correct, or even accept the wrong religion, have a chance at entering heaven. Our moral actions must determine whether or not we enter heaven, not our knowledge or religion therefore revealed religion must be false. [View argument in full: Religion is pointless]

God is dangerous: (click to read full essay)

"Three reasons to reject God: 1. As God has historically served as a force for evil and it seems that any Demon could very easily trick us into thinking it is God we must reject all feelings and thoughts from God for fear of us being deluded. 2. The major monotheistic religions hold that idolatry is a serious sin so it is safer to accept no god rather than risk accepting the incorrect one. 3. The goal of reaching heaven is dubious as we know very little about what heaven is really like. In conclusion: Atheism is safer than theism and for everyone's safety it is urgent we all reject theism.
[..]
If God is just, moral or understanding it will forgive us our cautiousness! If God is not just, moral or understanding then we hardly want to share heaven with it for all eternity. Either way: atheism is safest by far."
Introduction and Conclusion of "God is dangerous" by Vexen Crabtree 2002 Jan 26

5. Souls do not exist
5.1. Arguments against souls
I believe that souls are not a tenable belief. I have two essays on the subject:


Body Soul Problems goes into the practical side of the soul and it's problems and concludes that there are insurmountable problems about the concept of a soul. So much so that it is unlikely they exist.

The Soul and The Emotion Self go into our emotions and feelings and concludes that there is no room for a soul, that they are so pointless they might as well not exist at all.
5.2. Souls are unnecessary if God exists

"God can simply revive and restore our consciousness without the need for souls. To claim God needs souls is to deny God's omnipotency. God can do it without souls, it is possible for monotheists to not believe in souls. It seems this would be a valid way to accept science and God simultaneously and will most likely be a liberal belief."
"Spiritual Reality: Spiritualism without God" by Vexen 2002 Sep 16

6. The experience of Spirits and God
"I argue that God is a result of Human desire, Human needs and Human projection and that these explain even the personal experience of God more rationally than the conclusion that God really exists. Firstly, I highlight how we know some people have false experiences. Secondly, I list some particular characters traits and causes of God experiences. I conclude that it is not necessary for a God to exist in order to explain why people believe in one."
Introduction to "Experience of God" by Vexen, 2002 Dec 04

"Magic can be explained through at least two separate methods both of which do not require either good or evil forces to exist. The Solipsistic explanation of supernatural magic and the Quantum physics explanation. Ghosts and communication with the dead can be explained in terms of electromagnetic patterns, Chaos theory and Quantum Physics (aside from the normal explanation of delusion)."

From "Spiritual Reality: Spiritualism without God" by Vexen 2002 Sep 16

7. Morals
Absolute morals are impossible to actually state, such things as morality can only exist subjectively.

"Subjective Opinions - common sense.
Every person who reads a long text will understand it differently, as each one of us is unique in character and experience of life. A person who reads a holy text will have to judge it, analize it and think through it and in the process every person observes a different set of moral rules.
[...] To try and write an absolute into a text that can only ever be interpreted subjectively is pointless. Especially when it comes to theoretical matters such as morality.

A moral absolute is a statement that is implied to be utterly correct, divine in nature. However, as all people are going to think of that moral in a different way, it is useless even speculating what they might be, and any such attempt to state it would be useless and result in a whole range of opinions - moral absolutes only apply to omniscient beings, for other beings they can only be pointers and recommendations."

"Confused religious ethics" by Vexen 1999 May 05

How can a theist be moral?


"If I am threatened into behaving in a good manner then I am at best amoral, because I am not acting with free will. If you believe that a supreme god is going to punish you or deny you life if you misbehave, it is like being permanently threatened into behaving well. In addition, if you believe there is some great reward for behaving well, then your motives for good behavior are potentially more selfish. An atheist who does not believe in heaven and hell is potentially more moral, for he acts without these added factors [...] Who is more moral? Those who act for the sake of goodness itself, or those who do good acts under the belief that failure to do so results in hell?"
"Confused religious ethics" by Vexen Crabtree 1999 May 05

Can Morals exist without God?

8. Assumptions
"Of the fundamental statements that explain the existence of the Universe: Many of these are the same whether you apply them theistically to God, or as an atheist, to the Universe. Comparing these assumptions, I note that the atheist makes fewer assumptions about reality. This essay attempts to quell some arguments between atheists and theists who both claim they are making more "logical" assumptions when in fact many of their "different" assumptions are the same, with the exception of extra theistic assumptions such as the existence of a loving being, a conscious creator, an imminent god."
"Faith:Assumptions that theists and atheists make" by Vexen, 2002 Aug 29

"Theists make many assumptions about the force that causes the Universe to exist. Whether this force or not is God is unprovable, hence we have theism being based on faith. In addition to the basic assumption that God exists, theists make many additional leaps of faith, such as God being all-powerful, emotional, benevolent, that God wants to be worshipped and omniscience along with other particulars of various monotheistic religions. This essay highlights those assumptions and reminds us that the existence of God does not mean that we can arbitrarily make these assumptions about God."

From "Assumptions that theists make" by Vexen Crabtree 2002 Sep 25

9. Infallible Texts, Authoritive Texts and Divinity
By Vexen, 1999
Mistranslations and contradictions
It is apparent that every translation of holy texts (this is truer for older religions such as Judaism and Christianity) than newer ones like Islam is different to other translations (otherwise there would only be one translation required per language per book), and there are many different versions of holy texts available. This means that there are multiple ways of interpreting the texts.

In most texts you can find one part which appears to contradict another part. In most cases, tradition will dictate which part is the 'most' correct or which part is a refinement on the other. Deciding which parts override which is another cause of confusion;

Change over time
As society changes over time, which it does, people's opinions and assumptions change. The fact that these change over time as they do means that it is likely to continue to change; that our current understanding is only temporary. The deities responsible for holy text would know that this would happen, therefore the truths that are written in to them must be designed to be interpreted in a dynamic way; but this means that there are no absolutes.

Holy Texts reflect the opinions and points of view of those who read it, it doesn't form those opinions. They are re-interpreted according to the current trends and socio-economic factors, and there has not been a trend the other way round. I.e., a text did not cause a moral revolution, but instead it has been gradually re-interpreted according to how the morals have changed if a change was ready to occur. It is now considered immoral that Women are seen as inferior to Man and the slavery was godly. The Bible can be used to prove it. Yet it used to be the other way round, and the Bible was used as proof then, too. The actual text does not change, yet people will exploit it's assumed "moral absolutes" in order to try and prove the things they believe.

10. Communication
By Vexen, 1999
Every person's has a unique set of neurones within their brain and a unique filtering system for the input that their brain receives. This means that no two people ever perceive the same experience or event at any given event - each person's neuronal brain will interpret it and present it in a slightly different way. Each person will have a slightly different version presented to their conscious self even before having time to consciously think about the event.
When a person imagines, perceives or has an apparent "experience" which comes from their God, then it must also pass through their mental systems before it is understood. Therefore it is easy to see that no two people can ever perceive the same God - for example, every Christian believes in a slightly different God depending on their own personal experiences and thought patterns, and psychological needs and wants. Nobody can perceive the absolute God without first having to think about it and therefore corrupt the image.

People who claim to know that the version of God they believe in is the right one are short-sighted and unintelligent - for they are claiming that their own nervous system is not capable of mistake - that their thought process is infallible. Claiming to have a brain that can observe absolute truth and not be corrupted by our fallible neruones is claiming to what only God can do: Observe the absolute reality.