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From the forum:

Why is Apple Scared of Sony ?


Click to view updated thread with images




Posted by randomuser
Now I really wonder why Apple never sued Sony ? They sued Samsung, which provides a lot of components to them and HTC and other Android vendors but never Sony ? Not just mobile manufacturers but Apple has targeted other consumer electronics firms as well and even Microsoft/Google but never Sony corporation/Sony Electronics/Sony Mobile (former Sony Ericsson)

Does anyone know why?


Posted by se-fan

On 2012-06-13 08:11:08, randomuser wrote:
Now I really wonder why Apple never sued Sony ? They sued Samsung, which provides a lot of components to them and HTC and other Android vendors but never Sony ? Not just mobile manufacturers but Apple has targeted other consumer electronics firms as well and even Microsoft/Google but never Sony corporation/Sony Electronics/Sony Mobile (former Sony Ericsson)

Does anyone know why?


Because then al Ericsson patents would be usel against them....

Posted by Platia1
You would be stupid to sue Sony.

They have tonnes of patents relating to consumer electronics, as well as full posession of all patents from Sony Ericsson and I think they bought or at least have a licence to some of Ericsson's patents as well (I know they have a licence for all of it but don't know how many they bought)

If Apple sued them, they would probably get crushed under a monster of a counter sue. Sony have a lot more history than a lot of the competitors Apple are suing.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
A part of me doubts its about patents as in that department Samsung has one of if not the largest mobile patent portfolios, if not the largest then the 2nd largest after Nokia, AFAIK.

It seems to me Apple never saw Sony as a major threat, nor LG or RIM either as i recall they didn't sue them either. Apple targetted mainly their biggest threats in the USA, those are Samsung, HTC and Motorola, they knew if they could stop sales of one of the above, especially Samsung, they could hurt Android sales greatly ,sueing Sony wouldn't bring the same impact.

Posted by razec
If Sony had their financial crisis solved and began their true venture to competitiveness then I'm pretty sure Apple would start looking for their patent encyclopedia and start attacking them, but unlike Samsung, Sony is a much more serious opponent when it comes to IP. BTQ has anyone seen Sony copying Apple in at least one time? well funny thing is that Sony started some of the design trends that apple is currently using, I'm pretty sure everyone knows who build the first laptop with an island keyboard design?

Posted by motvikt
I remember Bert Nordberg said in a interview that S(E) with backing from Ericsson was practically "unsueable"
[ This Message was edited by: motvikt on 2012-06-13 10:02 ]


Posted by razec
^^ And what exactly does that mean with regards to the subject

Now I get your point
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2012-06-13 12:18 ]


Posted by motvikt

On 2012-06-13 10:42:39, razec wrote:
^^ And what exactly does that mean with regards to the subject



Huh? What do you mean? I said that S(E) cant be sued, how is that irrelevant to the topic?

Posted by razec
^^ Dude, don't get me wrong, I'm just having trouble understanding your post

Posted by motvikt

On 2012-06-13 12:44:26, razec wrote:
^^ Dude, don't get me wrong, I'm just having trouble understanding your post



Heh, no problem. I realized I had spelled "unsueable" (even though its not a real word) wrong

Posted by djin
Steve jobs liked sony, infact apple itself was inspired by sony. That love + patents = no sue. But once, if, sony does change and become successful again, especially in the mobile segment, then its unpredictable as to what will happen. So far they have only gone against people who are more recent in the mobile area such as htc, samsung, etc. When they tried suing some one older such as nokia, they got sued back for much more patents and ended up paying them. Ericsson, sony and sony ericsson have been in this business for much longer time, and they would obviously be more loaded.

Ever wondered why microsoft never sued sony but htc, samsung, all new comers have to pay royalty fees for making android? Probably due to the same reason, patents.

Posted by razec
^^ That makes me think that Sony is one the strongest force in the mobile market

Posted by Bonovox
I don't think it's about being a threat only. Sony has been around longer than Samsung or most other big electronic companies. Sony has more of its own patents or ideas of it's own that stand out and are original to most others. Take Xperia phones they look completely different to anything else out there. Sony has alot more going for it than Apple and I don't mean as in mobiles.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Motorola have been around the longest, longer than Sony in the mobile industry AFAIK, and havn a huge patent portfolio, yet they have been sued.

IMO, i dont think Apple's lawyers saw any benefit in suing Sony, they are barely making a profit in all their departments except PlayStation and arent even in the top5 in terms of marketshare in mobile, nor is their growth rate amazing. If Sony were in Samsung's position right now im sure they'd be in and out of court with Apple just as much as Samsung and HTC, Steve Jobs felt betrayed by Eric Schmidt, and would stop at nothing to destroy Android, and what that meant is going after the top brands in Android. Notice how LG hasn't been sued either.

Posted by Sugarkane
Maybe because Sony won't to do an iWannabeiPhone?
And go against who have massive patents of mobile communication (GSM techwise) will result in iApples making calls via telepathy. (kidding but almost this)

Posted by Bonovox
Yes Sony are unique in design compared to the rest. No iPhone copies. LG copy Samsung alot in design

Posted by pt020

On 2012-06-13 14:10:51, Sugarkane wrote:
Maybe because Sony won't to do an iWannabeiPhone?
And go against who have massive patents of mobile communication (GSM techwise) will result in iApples making calls via telepathy. (kidding but almost this)

Spam

Posted by Sugarkane

On 2012-06-13 15:32:47, pt020 wrote:

On 2012-06-13 14:10:51, Sugarkane wrote:
Maybe because Sony won't to do an iWannabeiPhone?
And go against who have massive patents of mobile communication (GSM techwise) will result in iApples making calls via telepathy. (kidding but almost this)

Spam


Can you justify why i am a spam?

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Motorola are also pretty unique, and whilest everyone else incl. S(E) rushed to make touch only phones, Motorola made the Moto Droid with a QWERTY keyboard which pretty much boosted Android.

I cant think of a Moto or even an HTC Android that tries to look like an iPhone actually.

Not sure about LG copying Samsung, maybe in UI here and there, but the rest? Nah. Id actually say Apple copied LG's Prada design in the iPhone4 and 4S:
http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_ke850_prada-pictures-1828.php

Posted by razec

On 2012-06-13 15:38:13, Sugarkane wrote:

On 2012-06-13 15:32:47, pt020 wrote:

On 2012-06-13 14:10:51, Sugarkane wrote:
Maybe because Sony won't to do an iWannabeiPhone?
And go against who have massive patents of mobile communication (GSM techwise) will result in iApples making calls via telepathy. (kidding but almost this)

Spam


Is is very much true that Samsung did repeatedly copy iPhone and iPad in so many ways from design, to UI, and SIII may not be iPhone-esque in design but still there were features in its software package that mimicked the ones seen in iphone 4s. as much as it would hurt the most die-hard Android fans out there, almost every asian manufacturer except Sony and its Japanese brethren have attempted to make their phones iPhone-ish.

Posted by Geezay
Well, I for one do not think its just about the patent war chest that Sony has. I think it's about the threat that Sony pose/poses/posed? It is virtually nil, at least on Apple's mobile phone business. If it was just about patents, they would have been wary of Motorolla which has a sizeable arsenal of those.

I also think Steve Jobs respected Sony in a way as a truly innovative company and a pioneer and thought not to sue it? He clearly had little to no respect for Samsung who he saw as copycats!

My two cents worth!

Posted by Tsepz_GP
+1 Geezay.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2012-06-13 17:08 ]


Posted by mode
I think the answer is quite obvious. They are not threatened by Sony. Period. Sony is now super toothless where their core market is- mobile devices.

Posted by Dups!
Tsepz_GP and Geezay hit the nail on the head.

The sooner Sony threatens Apple the sooner they are slapped with lawsuits.

Posted by chunkybeats
I dont think its a matter of threat from Sony. I think in terms of the position in the market, Sony are in a good position. Why you ask? Well who developed the iphone 4s & sg3 cameras? Sony, how many of them units where shipped? Heaps!! So in terms of profit Sony are in a good position because the top two competitors are using their hardware they dont need to worry about patents etc etc.

I wish Sony all the best and hope one day they come back to where they are, I realistically think they will, they are just trying to touch other markets 1st with 'affordable' technology unlike Apple who have been hitting so called high end but really its more mid to high range rather than high end products.

Posted by chunkybeats

On 2012-06-13 22:40:28, chunkybeats wrote:
I dont think its a matter of threat from Sony. I think in terms of the position in the market, Sony are in a good position. Why you ask? Well who developed the iphone 4s & sg3 cameras? Sony, how many of them units where shipped? Heaps!! So in terms of profit Sony are in a good position because the top two competitors are using their hardware they dont need to worry about patents etc etc.

I wish Sony all the best and hope one day they come back to where they were, I realistically think they will, they are just trying to touch other markets 1st with 'affordable' technology unlike Apple who have been hitting so called high end but really its more mid to high range rather than high end products.



Posted by Tsepz_GP

On 2012-06-13 22:40:28, chunkybeats wrote:
I dont think its a matter of threat from Sony. I think in terms of the position in the market, Sony are in a good position. Why you ask? Well who developed the iphone 4s & sg3 cameras? Sony, how many of them units where shipped? Heaps!! So in terms of profit Sony are in a good position because the top two competitors are using their hardware they dont need to worry about patents etc etc.

I wish Sony all the best and hope one day they come back to where they are, I realistically think they will, they are just trying to touch other markets 1st with 'affordable' technology unlike Apple who have been hitting so called high end but really its more mid to high range rather than high end products.


Guess who developed around 30% of the components of the iPhone??? Samsung. They are the ones who cash in the most on the iPhone after Apple, in actual fact Apple and Samsung are taking up about 90% of the profits in the mobile industry, leaving Sony and the rest to fight for the scraps, Threat is probably the main reason. Just looking at the companies Apple have sued shows that.

In the USA they are chasing Samsung, Htc and Moto, the most popular Android OEMs there.
In Europe they are chasing Samsung primarily, the most popular Android OEM and the largest seller of smartphones on the globe, why would they waste resources and sue Sony who are barely on the map? Its basic business. Apple will sue Sony if they see benefits to it, but at this point there are none.

Posted by djin
@Tsepz_gp,

AFAIK apple didnt chase motorola. Its motorola who sued apple and apple counter-sued them.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
If i remember correctly they did try get an injunction on the Motorola Xoom. Didn't they?

Posted by semo
A very interesting read about current state and trends in mobile patents (not spam
http://www.chetansharma.com/M[....]e_Chetan_Sharma_Consulting.pdf
It seems that both Ericsson and Sony are in the top group and together they are probably number one.
Try to compare with Apple, although IMO Apple does not care about this very much.
They would sue Sony as soon as thay find a good rea$$$on.


[ This Message was edited by: semo on 2012-06-13 23:25 ]


Posted by Tsepz_GP

On 2012-06-14 00:20:23, semo wrote:
A very interesting read about current state and trends in mobile patents (not spam
http://www.chetansharma.com/M[....]e_Chetan_Sharma_Consulting.pdf
It seems that both Ericsson and Sony are in the top group and together they are probably number one.
Try to compare with Apple, although IMO Apple does not care about this very much.
They would sue Sony as soon as thay find a good rea$$$on.


[ This Message was edited by: semo on 2012-06-13 23:25 ]




+1
And just as i thought WRT Nokia and Samsung.
If and when suing Sony brings any benefit or if they feel threatened by them, Apple will do it.

At this point its not about HOW MANY patents, its about the depth of the patents and how valid they are. Look where Apple is in that graph, a mere glance would have you thinking they cant sue anyone, but thanks to that UI of theirs which EVERYONE has "copied" in a way, they are able to sue left, right and center. Sony and many others are also guilty of violating some of Apple's patents, its down to Apple to choose who they sue. If manufacturers had for example stuck with non-touch UI i doubt Apple would have this power as many of their patents are touch and gesture related it seems.
[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2012-06-14 00:37 ]


Posted by djin
I am not 100% sure on this, but it was after the patent war. Also that graph, it shows the patents thats been filed from 1995-2012 right? So i think it does not indicate total number of patents a company holds?

Posted by Geezay

On 2012-06-14 19:16:26, djin wrote:
I am not 100% sure on this, but it was after the patent war. Also that graph, it shows the patents thats been filed from 1995-2012 right? So i think it does not indicate total number of patents a company holds?



I think you are correct. If you check on the US Patents Office website, the statistics they have by company are from 1995, which my guess would be is the source of this data. The annual reports from 1995 are here for those who are curious, interested or both. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/ido/oeip/taf/reports_topo.htm

Posted by degraaff
Because Sony (Ericsson) phones don't look anything like iPhones, while many samsung phones are obviously based on iPhones, in terms of looks.

Posted by xelibry
Because Sony can not in any way threaten the leadership of Apple and Samsung. The main players are Samsung, HTC, ZTE, Huawei, LG.

Posted by rraz9228
It's more about patents and sony creates its own (not copying anybody). As somebody posted earlier, with Sony/S(E) backed by Ericsson and with S(E) own patent portfolio, a bigger counter suit is what you'll get for suing sony.

If it's about the threat, then why did Motorolla got sued? Sony/S(E) is around the same size as Motorolla then why is Motorolla a threat but Sony is not.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
The lawsuits arent all about copying design, if some of you have actualy paid attention to many of the lawsuit details you'll find many of them have to do with things like how UI reacts when touched, radio tech etc... Some of these are things even Sony/SE violates, but they arent a real threat to Apple, so why waste time with them if they can chase Samsung, HTC, and Moto who pose a threat to them.

rraz
As i keep saying, Motorola are a threat to Apple IN THE USA which is one of the biggest smartphone markets. Motorola are still pretty big in the USA and have a huge backing from the largest carrier in the USA, Verizon. Sony doesn't have the same sort of support, and now that Motorola is part of Google, Apple's arch enemy, they are a huge threat to them.

Posted by Bonovox
And Apple have NEVER copied ANYONE?? Never forget when the first ever iPhone came out and people rushing to the shops eager to get their hands on an iPod that makes calls. The thing was shit.

_________________
Material things don't matter,but Rock n Roll does!!!!

Samsung Galaxy S III
[ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2012-06-16 17:25 ]


Posted by randomuser

On 2012-06-16 02:30:00, Bonovox wrote:
And Apple have NEVER copied ANYONE?? Never forget when the first ever iPhone came out and people rushing to the shops eager to get their hands on an iPod that makes calls. The thing the shit.



Well in fact Apple copied Sony many times, and Samsung has copied Sony even more !! Sony should sue Apple and Samsung

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Bono
They've all "copied"/taken ideas from each other at some points, but i doubt Sony wants to get into this whole lawsuit madness, not in their current state, unless they know they will indeed win.

Posted by degraaff

On 2012-06-16 01:10:34, Tsepz_GP wrote:
you'll find many of them have to do with things like how UI reacts when touched, radio tech etc


Shouldn't they be sueing Google (Android OS) instead, then?

Posted by Tsepz_GP
They should, but they know the best way to kill Android is to attack its largest OEMs. Apple, Oracle and Microsoft are trying to make Android expensive to license to OEMs so as to push them away from it.
Oracle have failed in such an epic way that even if they win what is left of the lawsuit the amount of Google's legal fees they have to pay are higher than the maximum they can get out the lawsuit.
Apple, have won some and lost others without any major impact.
Microsoft are the only ones who have really been successful, they already have the majority of Android OEMs paying royalties to them for IP infringement, except Sony, Moto, Huawei and a few others, you best believe they are in talks with the left over companies as we speak.

Posted by razec
two more android tablet makers are forced into MS deal

http://news.softpedia.com/new[....]oid-Tablet-Makers-280390.shtml

the way the title above reads gave me a silly impression that MS owns Android instead of Google!?!

and still no Sony, it seems to me now that they're afraid of them since Coby is not exactly a significant company that produces android devices, yet MS is milking from them.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
LG, Asus, Motorola and many others arent in there either, best believe Microsoft are probably in talks with all of them right now, incl. Sony.
i dont get why people here want to believe that these companies are "scared" of Sony.

Apple are targeting successful Android OEMs, paticularly in the US and Europe, namely Samsung and HTC.

Microsoft are after everyone, for royalties, who ever isn't paying now is probably in their hitlist, or in negotiations with them as we speak.

Posted by Miss UK
They should just attack Google Headquaters
If they want rid of Android OS so badly

What's the point of targeting Sony or LG, HTC
Or Samsung for a nigly part !!!

Apple and Google are 2 US giants
Sort it out u too !

As far as Sony goes I guess apple have
Some respect or decency to leave them
Alone but as Sony supply most of parts to
Tom, dick or Harry well

Posted by chunkybeats
This is a poinltess post, its gone to the point one defending the other. Im sick of this stupid petty stuff, especially from the Apple fans they are so annoying and just dont admit that there are better devices out there but hang on wait for the next iphone, yawn gets so boring that old quote! I can see why a lot of people who dont use Apple hate them because of that stupid so called 'we know everything attitude' but you actually dont, if you cant use an Android or Windows phone then you cant claim you know technology!

Posted by Miss UK
You W00t? you seem to forget I have owned 3x android phones already so stop all this apple sheep peep nonsense
if you hate apple so badly why do you comment on them at all

some of us own these apple phones and like them very much for different things!
who cares if you think there to expensive or if there suing the handset maker you own
big deal its life get on with it nothing here that you say will change anything on that perspective

btw No wonder dear moderator masseur a true apple owner who was fond of apple if I recall hasn't been back
prob saw all this and didn't wanna step foot back through the door again!

Also in a way I seriously think the whole topic of Apple needs to be deleted from this Forum any mention of a apple and Phone wars break's loose btw members, its not fair on people who come here and seek advice reading stuff like this everyone here is ment to be a civilised adult not a 6 year old child!



Posted by rss_ndrsn
As far as I know, Sony holds three or five essential patents regarding mobile phones. Plus, Ericsson has their own. Combined those patents, and it makes Sony (SE) less likely to get sued. And Sony has plenty of patents that can interest Apple into signing cross-licensing agreement, like the in-cell technology for touchscreen and touch sensitive display with haptic feedback. As all previous SE owners who now own iPhone know, the shake-to-change-track feature of Walkman phones can now also be found on iPhones. That makes a perfect example of cross-licensing deal. In addition, Sony phones have distinct style and appearance that you will not mistake them looking like an Apple device.

Moreover, Sony can terminate Apple's license to sell Sony music and movie collections which will impact iTunes greatly. Remember, Sony does not only make electronic products but they make music records and movies as well. So it is really impractical to sue Sony.
[ This Message was edited by: rss_ndrsn on 2012-07-10 23:39 ]


Posted by chunkybeats
@ MissUK

Well isnt Esato originally a Sony Ericsson forum? So seeing Samsung and Apple etc forums popping up takes a while to get used to. Im not bashing you personally or Apple, I just get fed up with the silly trolling. I know you used to own Android and thats cool but I just dont want all this high and mighty talk that comes from Apple and Galaxy S3 owners. It is almost funny but it is also way past its sell by date. I dont own either brands and always prefer SE to any phone. I used to have the iphone 4 but I just simply didnt like it and it also broke which Apple were going to charge me silly money to fix it so I flogged it online and got an Xperia and wow its good to be back again with SE

Hopefully Apple do wake up and make the iphone 5 a great phone and maybe lift the restrictions off it and plus go to a standard connection that we can all share but that is me probably dreaming.

Posted by Miss UK
I Agree it is a bit repetive and very boring to read especially when you come here and
need advice on something of that manufacturer

know one knows what the next iPhone will hold I guess everyone is abit fed up of the
same design over the last 2 years so lets see if apple will change that slightly

im not going to be happy if they troll up with a 5 inch screen phone though

I think all the S3 owners or samsung owners and apple should just give each other a bear
hug now and stop battling it out over this stuff

cos its simply YAWN stuff now


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