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At exactly what point did we abandon reason for MADNESS?


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Posted by Sammy_boy
I've had enough. Enough of threads created simply to denigrate and discriminate against a certain country or people. You all know what country I'm talking about. And you all know who you are.

Where exactly do people get off on slagging off Israel, which seems to be the latest fashionable fad here. As I stated in one thread, it's like they are the 'Evil Empire' and the whole Islamic world is the 'Rebel Alliance'. Why is everyone making Israel out to be the only aggressor here when it's going both ways? Whenever anyone points this salient fact out they get flamed and accused of being a 'Zionist'.

Now before anyone gets into their X-Wing and shoots me down in flames, I am NOT condoning what Israel does, nor indeed what Palestinian extremists do. I am getting heartily p1ssed off with all the 'cut and paste' articles out of leftie publications like The Guardian which have their own agendas and biases, which then start off the predictable and identikit responses that we have had in many other threads of this ilk, and start discussions/flame wars that end up going exactly the same way.

In fact I might find and revive Scotsboyuk's 'Guide to enraged posting' as it seems quite apt.

Now, I am not from Israel, nor do I have any links to that area. I am not 'pro-Israeli', nor am I 'pro-Palestine'. I am also not a religious person. There are two sides to a story, no one side is 100% in the right or 100% in the wrong. Why can't people take a balanced view and take the other side's opinions and points into consideration instead of replying simply accusing them of being anti semetic/anti Islam/anti any other bloody thing else they can think of.


Posted by Jim
Amen to that!

Posted by Sir-SonyEricsson-man
Yes amen.. I even don't care whats up down there.. I have my own problems here so..

Posted by Sammy_boy
All I would like to see in these discussions is some empathy and common sense, especially when dealing with someone else's viewpoint.

There seems to be an increase in religious intolerance and bigotry in these threads, which isn't acceptible anywhere, let alone a MOBILE PHONE forum.


Posted by PeterKay
Every soul has it's on concern,
and we should all become one,
to kick out all the terrorism,
and enjoy life with peace & fun.

not a poet, just made that up!


Posted by WelshTom
I agree with what you are saying. However my main gripe is simply "At exactly what point did esato become a religon forum?" these threads wind me up for a number of reasons. Firstly esato is a mobile phone forum, i don't want to come here and find the forum clogged up with political and religous threads. If i wanted to read and engage in such discussions i would go find a forum that covers these points. Secondly as you point out these threads are never started from an impartial point of view - which is wrong for the person startin the thread. I then believe in the right of free speech and so am happy for anyone to voice their opinions in reply to the opening of the thread. and finally these threads are just pointless as because this is a mobile phone forum i think that many of the replies are written by people who do not know the basic details let alone the full 'in's and out's' of the topic, hence ill informed replies are made. This is why there is no point debating these topics on esato. They should be debated in an arena that attracts the people who fully understand the topic and are able to logically argue their point and specifically address any points raised by people with differing points of views. This is never going to happen on esato - so i guess my main problem is i don't see what the original posters think they are going to acheive with these threads.

Don't get me wrong one or two threads of this nature on BIG events that occur are fine and informative but the level that have been posted recently i think just clogg up the forum and detract from it's aim - mobile phone discussion!

Just my 2pence worth,
Tom

Posted by WelshTom
I also forgot to mention that i rarely post in any political or religous threads as i do not, and have never pretended to, know the subjects in enough detail. Sure i know what i read in papers and see in the news - but even this is rarely enough information to know these subjects well enough to debate them - far more research needs to be done.

Posted by axxxr
Sammy_boy i can fully understand your frustration in this matter..and i do agree on some of the points you mentioned,but due to varying opinions from members sometimes we don't always like what we read...but we should respect people's choices.

Now Israel and the Palestinian issue is a sensitive matter and most do not understand the complexity of the issue and and quite easyily support either side,myself sideing with the Palestinians.Its nice to stay \"fair and balanced\" in such debates but its not always possible.

Posted by Sammy_boy
i have to admit that I tend to generally post my opinion rather than from articles (which aren't immune to being innacurate and are often biased anyway) when I do post in these kinds of threads.

I'm not saying ban the threads, just show some tolerance towards others' opinions and viewpoints and not flame them just because they are disagreed with.

Posted by scotsboyuk
@Sam

You are being completely rediculous! Why shouldn't people be allowed to make as many political threads as they like? Surely you can see how silly you are being? If you want to discuss mobile phones then I suggest you go to a mobile phone forum ... what's that? ... oh I must apologise, I have just been informed that apparently Esato is a mobile phone forum!

Joking aside, we have been here many times. It is the exact same story; for some reason known only to themselves certain members seem to feel that a mobile phone forum is the place to go to post a spiel about the injustices of the world. Call me old fashioned, but I tend to go to a mobile phone forum to ... well ... post about mobile phones.

Now of course we inevitably have the 'freedom of speech' defence for the political threads. By all all means air your views, but do we have to have thread upon thread upon thread upon thread upon thread upon thread of them? The other point is of course that the political-religious posters only seem to respect freedom of speech when it is in their favour, when someone comes along and intoduces a crazy notion like providing evidence to support their claims they don't seem to like that and more often than not resort to either obfuscation of the facts; repeating their mantra or misrepresenting the situation.

Now on the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian discussions, at which point did Esato take on the responsibility for handling Palestinian propoganda? Is there a reason we have so many threads on this issue on a mobile phone forum? Have the authors not heard that there are dedicated political forums on the internet? Perhaps laffen has been given a veto on the UN Security Council and thus we are seeing an attempt to influence him? Beyond that I can really only think of one plausible explanation as to why we have so many of these threads ...

... Esato is being used as a soapbox. The political demagogues make their posts under the pretence of freedom of speech and open discussion, in reality they simply want people to agree with them and don't care for the annoying part when someone actually does want to discuss the issue. Look at their threads, they give each other pats on the back, another post to further the cause of turning Esato into a political soapbox.

Now I have been a member of this forum too long to actually give a tuppence about what anyone thinks of me so I am going to be frank.

It should not surprise any of you to learn that the worst of the lot in my opinion is axxxr, Esato's news editor. Now to me the term 'news' implies some measure of objectivity and the fact that he is a member of Esato's staff should also mean that he doesn't embroil himself in arguments or degrade the forum in any way. Quite on the contrary, you couldn't find a more biased person if you asked turkeys if Christmas dinner should be scrapped. It isn't just that he is biased, he also posts bile; paranoid delusional views that feed into the conspiracy theories that make up his world view.

In addittion there is also the fact that as a member of staff he frequently engages in arguments (most recently with myself). I don't think this is a particularly good way for a member of staff to behave. What does it say about Esato when one of its members of staff is posting hate filled theories and arguing with members? I can't say it leaves a very good impression with me and to be perfectly honest I rather wonder why laffen allows it to continue.

axxxr isn't the only one though, there are a group of biased and uninformed members who seem to feel that it is their duty to harangue the forum with their chosen cause. Thread after thread of biased rants, in aid of what? Recently we have dealer3, who presumably has just bought a subscription to the Guardian and is determined to get his money's worth.

Perhaps at some point the sane members of Esato will realise what a terribly disservice these damgogues are doing to this forum.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-26 04:30 ]

Posted by leeboy13
can i just add, scottsboy i have respect for you as youve been here for a lot longer than you (which in reality means nothing as its a forum and time spent here menas nothing), but i dont know why you have such a problme with axxxr.... some of us like the thigs he puts here... if you dont couldnt you make your own life easier and just avoid his topics.... by all means read them but you tend to bite at things he says....

I questioned and questioned the 9/11 theory and to be honest axxxr helped me to believe there is more to it than meets teh eye, i used to be very naive and believe anything really, so as a positive point, i have axxxr to thank for making me look deeper into things....

Since when did things have to get so serious on esato? rememeber guys and girls were on teh interent, take things with a pinch of salt......

group hug anyone?

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 16:35:35, leeboy13 wrote:
but i dont know why you have such a problme with axxxr.... some of us like the thigs he puts here... if you dont couldnt you make your own life easier and just avoid his topics.... by all means read them but you tend to bite at things he says....



I don't have a problem with axxxr, I simply dislike him. The reason why is very simple; he is a biased paranoid hate filled egotistical political demagogue who tarnishes the good name of this forum.

I did once ignore his posts. I once asked for political posts to be banned. That didn't find much support, so I moved to having them limited. That too didn't work so I even spoke to axxxr directly and asked him to tone things down a bit. That too didn't meet with much success. Confrontation was not my first choice, I did look to other options.

Quote:

I questioned and questioned the 9/11 theory and to be honest axxxr helped me to believe there is more to it than meets teh eye, i used to be very naive and believe anything really, so as a positive point, i have axxxr to thank for making me look deeper into things....



You can believe the sky is made of candy floss for all I care, I don't take any great interest in what other people believe. What I do take an interest in is people spreading hate filled nonsense on this forum. Do you share some of axxxr's other views? Things like America planning a Holocaust against Muslims?

Quote:

Since when did things have to get so serious on esato?



One wonders indeed!

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-05-26 15:46 ]

Posted by slattery69
i do like some of these thread but i do agree to a certain extent with where scotsboy is coming from
recently i ve seen something i truley dislike creeping into esato and it aint politcs its called racism.
yes ive said i can imagine lots of people getting ready to defend themsleves and claim there not racist but your out there and your posting in this forum you may think your been quite cute about it but your really not.
ive no objection to people pointing out incidents that occur around the world that happen that some of use never get to hear about however i dont need to be told afterwards that all isreals deserve to be bombed on a bus because one idiot cant keep his gun in his pants.
just like i accept that not all muslims are suicide bombers just because a few idiots decided on7/7 to blow up parts of london.

Posted by leeboy13
[quote]
On 2006-05-26 16:45:16, scotsboyuk wrote:

You can believe the sky is made of candy floss for all I care, I don't take any great interest in what other people believe. What I do take an interest in is people spreading hate filled nonsense on this forum. Do you share some of axxxr's other views? Things like America planning a Holocaust against Muslims?


lmao off mate, sorry like but being as you couldnt care less your asking me a question....... so you care to some extent - again, thats neither hear nor there... To me, axxxr helps peopel to think, he has never forced his beliefs on me, nor would i ever imagine him to....

I cant see why you would have the problems yuo have pal? seriously, isnt he and everyone else entitled to their own opinions etc... i mean you are... so why aint they mate? soemthings youve said before ive found quite profound, and yet some ive found not some ermmmm good, but all in all thsi is what makes a good debate isnt it? afterall we are in teh 'mobile free zone'

Any way, my pervious and this post is not a dig at you mate in anyways.... just wish people would let people be themselves... I give you credit mate as you do normally back your arguements up to the grave.....

(i know ive posted some utter rubbish pointless topics recently but that was merley because i saw so many people bored or in topics practically talking to themsleves.....) and my spelling it awful.. i know......

@slattery, i havent noticed any racisium personally but your are right to say that that can not be tollerated.....

[ This Message was edited by: leeboy13 on 2006-05-26 16:01 ]

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 16:59:09, leeboy13 wrote:

lmao off mate, sorry like but being as you couldnt care less your asking me a question....... so you care to some extent - again, thats neither hear nor there... To me, axxxr helps peopel to think, he has never forced his beliefs on me, nor would i ever imagine him to....



It was a rhetorical question.

As I said, you can believe whatever you wish, that is none of my business. However, I do take exception to people spoiling this forum with politicising and hate filled paranoia.

Quote:

I cant see why you would have the problems yuo have pal? seriously, isnt he and everyone else entitled to their own opinions etc... i mean you are... so why aint they mate? soemthings youve said before ive found quite profound, and yet some ive found not some ermmmm good, but all in all thsi is what makes a good debate isnt it? afterall we are in teh 'mobile free zone'



I have never said anyone isn't entitled to their own opinion. In fact, even though I think axxxr spouts more crap than a field full of cows with the skids I'd die in a ditch to defend his right to say it. However, that does not mean that we have to read about it on Esato. There is a place for such things and Esato is not that place. There are perfectly good political forums where one can discuss such issues.

Quote:

Any way, my pervious and this post is not a dig at you mate in anyways.... just wish people would let people be themselves... I give you credit mate as you do normally back your arguements up to the grave.....



I did not take your posts as a dig.

Quote:

(i know ive posted some utter rubbish pointless topics recently but that was merley because i saw so many people bored or in topics practically talking to themsleves.....) and my spelling it awful.. i know......



Pointless topics do have a place here, I have posted some of my own in the past.

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 16:56:20, slattery69 wrote:
recently i ve seen something i truley dislike creeping into esato and it aint politcs its called racism.



Look at some of the recent posts; someone wanted Israel and America to be nuked! Apart from being insane, it is also hypocritical. Some of these self appointed champions of the oppressed seem quick to call for death and detruction on those they don't like.

I sincerely hope that what you have seen is limited and dies out very quickly. The vast majority of Esato members are uttrly against such horrendous and vile views.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-05-26 16:13 ]

Posted by leeboy13
i apprieciate that

and i clearly said the wrong thing by saying 'you not letting other have an opinion', wrongly worded (actually it was simpy badly worded) i meant it towards axxxr (him not being allowed an opinion [ which agian is badly worded).. anyhoots no hard feelings, in all fairness you seem alright mate.... Wierd coz i think axxxr is alright too..... its just the way it is i guess, some people just dont get on

Damn it , i dont get on with bus drives, but tats a whole other topic

All the best anyway

Posted by slattery69
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 17:12:00, scotsboyuk wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 16:56:20, slattery69 wrote:
recently i ve seen something i truley dislike creeping into esato and it aint politcs its called racism.



Look at some of the recent posts; someone wanted Israel and America to be nuked! Apart from being insane, it is also hypocritical. Some of these self appointed champions of the oppressed seem quick to call for death and detruction on those they don't like.




very true if you feel that passionate about something then why talk about it in those terms on a mobile phone forum surely you d be better off say on a website for this.
or better still get off your backside out of your bedsit go over to the country been oppressed and join your fellow men and women in there fight for freedom for a flag up your bum or whatever the cause is this week

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 17:14:33, leeboy13 wrote:
i meant it towards axxxr (him not being allowed an opinion [ which agian is badly worded).



axxxr is perfectly entitled to hold any opinion he wishes, I can't force him not to hold an opinion nor would I if I could. What I object to is the incessant political posts we see here on Esato coupled with the paranoid hate filled rants that go into them.

If axxxr wishes to make a point then fine, but let's see some evidence to back that up please. If he is so sure he is correct about something then he should have no problem in providing substantiating proof. Yet all we get is procrastination, obfuscation and misrepresentation.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-05-26 17:03 ]

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 17:17:09, slattery69 wrote:

or better still get off your backside out of your bedsit go over to the country been oppressed and join your fellow men and women in there fight for freedom for a flag up your bum or whatever the cause is this week



Of course armchair protesting is so much easier!

Posted by Sammy_boy
Oooh this thread has developed rather since I last checked!

Cool your jets everyone before we get into a spot of bother! It looks like the subject of these politico-religious threads is quite a hot topic, some very strong opinions here! Bit less of the personal insults though, eh?

I shouldn't be here, should've been at work but got to work and felt rather sick, so have come home again.

How about you all club together and give me some sympathy?

Posted by axxxr
scotsboyuk i'm getting a little tired of your pathetic and narrow minded views towards me... everyone is a witness that i've been very patient with you and your remarks..I feel dissapointed that we actually used to get on very well at one time,don't know what happened in between but my views have always remained the same,if anything you have changed not me!

You've been plotting and schemeing against me for a long time now and ive stayed quite and patient,for the sake of old times i let it go,but even i have limits and if you dislike me then thats fair enough but even so i don't hate you...I won't change my opinions and views whatever may come.

I put a lot of hard work and effort into esato,it may not seem like it but i do..and now and again i do post the occassional Political/Religious thread...but they are my choice and my views...If i feel the need to back them up i will,otherwise its another area of debate the way i see it.

Now i will try once again and be polite and respectfull to you even though you have said a lot of unfair things about me...So if you wish to make peace with me i am ready to do that...but i will not change my views and opinions.


Posted by EastCoastStar
i love everyone

Posted by Jim
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 18:26:50, axxxr wrote:

I put a lot of hard work and effort into esato,it may not seem like it but i do..and now and again i do post the occassional Political/Religious thread...but they are my choice and my views...If i feel the need to back them up i will,otherwise its another area of debate the way i see it.



You know that it's a hot subject and you know that it can turn easily into a flame war, yet you still post those threads (not only you btw).

For the sake of what?

[ This Message was edited by: Jim on 2006-05-26 17:55 ]

Posted by PeterKay
I think what Axxxr posts here on Esato is quite interesting and most of it for me is an education. These topics are always good to read to see what all members think on the matter. Some agree and some disagree which is a fair and interesting concept on all issues discussed.

For me Esato would not be the same without Axxxr.
and whether people like it or not this is a true fact


Posted by axxxr
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 18:55:25, Jim wrote:

You know that it's a hot subject and you know that it can turn easily into a flame war, yet you still post those threads (not only you btw).

For the sake of what?





Of course those type of threads do raise debate,but no one else seems to have a problem with them apart Scotsboyuk and a couple of other of his followers...if he does'nt like them,he should simply avoid them,they are plenty of members who don't get involved in threads because they have no interest in...The percentage of political threads i post here is very low...the remarks in this thread somehow suggest i flood the forums with them,if anything i flood the forums with mobile and gagdet news..and Scotsboyuk should participate in them rather than come on esato to make his views known about what he things about me....Scotsboyuk tends to post all his :e: discussion on se-nse and come on esato to make his political views known in my threads...otherwise he shows no other interest in esato!


Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 18:26:50, axxxr wrote:
scotsboyuk i'm getting a little tired of your pathetic and narrow minded views towards me...



Oh dear, I'll be crying into my pillow tonight.

Quote:

everyone is a witness that i've been very patient with you and your remarks..I feel dissapointed that we actually used to get on very well at one time,don't know what happened in between but my views have always remained the same,if anything you have changed not me!



Here come the violins ... How terribly kind of you to be so patient with the nasty scotsboyuk, it must be hard for you with me being so outrageous as to ask you to provide evidence for your rants or challenging your more paranoid and hate injected ramblings.

Quote:

You've been plotting and schemeing against me for a long time now



That refutes that paranoia claim then!

Quote:

and ive stayed quite and patient,for the sake of old times i let it go,but even i have limits and if you dislike me then thats fair enough but even so i don't hate you...I won't change my opinions and views whatever may come.



I don't hate you either, I just dislike you.

Quote:

I put a lot of hard work and effort into esato,



... just as much as you do into tarnishing Esato.

Quote:

it may not seem like it but i do..



Well you do post news, but then that's not really what people object to.

Quote:

and now and again i do post the occassional Political/Religious thread...



... an the winner of the Esato 2006 Understatement of the Year award goes to ...

Quote:

but they are my choice and my views...If i feel the need to back them up i will,otherwise its another area of debate the way i see it.



They are your attempt at turning this forum into a soapbox to air your increasingly paranoid and hate soaked views. You claim you want political discussion, but when anyone actually tries to discuss an issue you cannot respond in a rational manner. What you really want is simply for people to pat you on the back and tell you how right you are. You are an attention seeker who needs the approval of other people.

Quote:

Now i will try once again and be polite and respectfull to you even though you have said a lot of unfair things about me...



Please point out what I have said that is unfair.

Quote:

So if you wish to make peace with me i am ready to do that...but i will not change my views and opinions.



You can hold any view you like, I did say that before, but then I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised that you didn't read that or failed to pick up on it. I asked you before to tone down your political rhetoric, in fact, as I recall, you asked me what you should do and that was my advice to you. If you cannot tone down your rhetoric then you will simply have to expect people to keep challenging you.

Posted by haynesycop
ARG!!!

Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
Im sorry, but whats being said here is a load of SH*T!

Yes esato is a mobile forum, and people do talk about mobiles, in fact theres thousands of posts on them, but there are also sections where non mobile phone issues are talked about and discussed at great length and in my opinion thats one of the best bits of esato, I love the fact I can come on my pc and talk to some people who have a common interest, but also discuss some serious issues in the world, hell I posted about lack of jelly beans this monring and that has turned into quite a good thread (obviously in my opinion).

The reason people want to post about other issues is because theres a reel feel of comunity within these boards and as far as I can tell many people will openly discuss their problems in hoping that one of the comnunity members maybe able to help them out. (eastcosters thread, the computer help threads, my one regarding insomnia) its nice to have help once and a while

How can you say that the whole fredom of speach should be quietened down? If one is to give their opinion then they should say exactly what they think, not just dim it down so it doesnt offend anyone, what kind of cretin would want that?

All these posts debating the actions of terroists or talk of politics are not a bad thing, it shows that we as people actually care about the things going on in the world, what harm is there in discussing it? Its not as if were activly supporting terrorists or funding properganda.

Now regards axxxr in this I seriously think those accusing him of being narrow minded too opinionated should actually consider what he is doing (I cant say what I really think as I think my post would get deleted by the mods). Yes its well known he has some issues regarding america and does post allot of topics on politics, but he also posts a hell of allot of other bits and peices based on mobile phones and other similar technologies. I personally think his political threads are the best kind as its the only time I see people really getting into the subject at hand, I dont understand why people have a problem with this? He posts on lots of things and look how the 911 thread is going, well over 900 replys and thousands of views, now I think that clearly shows people want this kind of discussion?

@ scooty ---- I personally find axxxr a great guy and hes always helped me out with my threads and put in a great contribution into them, I can see you have some issues with axxxr and I dont see why, I can only asume its because you have some kind of problem with people expressing their opionns and you cant agreee, or prehaps you just dont like the news? But prhaps you should look at your own interuption into the forum, you have changed a political thread into a personal attack on axxxr just because you "dislike" him

_________________
for sale - iPods, Mp3 Players, Phones, Headphones you name it I got it

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[ This Message was edited by: Luke-the-magic-man on 2006-05-26 18:31 ]

Posted by leeboy13
Amen to that luke!

Nicely said

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:14:52, axxxr wrote:

Of course those type of threads do raise debate,but no one else seems to have a problem with them apart Scotsboyuk and a couple of other of his followers...



Yes, it's all a conspiracy axxxr, my 'followers' and I!

Quote:

if he does'nt like them,he should simply avoid them,they are plenty of members who don't get involved in threads because they have no interest in...



But I choose not to. They are a blight on this forum and they deserved to be challenged. If you don't like that, well either stop posting them or accept the fact that people will challenge your posts.

Quote:

The percentage of political threads i post here is very low...



A low percentage of biased hate filled nonsense is still biased hate filled nonsense.

Quote:

the remarks in this thread somehow suggest i flood the forums with them,if anything i flood the forums with mobile and gagdet news..and Scotsboyuk should participate in them rather than come on esato to make his views known about what he things about me....Scotsboyuk tends to post all his :e: discussion on se-nse and come on esato to make his political views known in my threads...otherwise he shows no other interest in esato!



Oh dear someone is getting a little frustrated, an attempt at a personal shot!

Yes I do post more on SE-NSE about mobile subjects than I do Esato, but then I also post more about mobile subjects on HoFo and Wireless Advisor than I do on Esato. People like yourself put me off Esato.

I do actually post in other threads on Esato; you may not be familiar with them as they tend not to include the terms 'George Bush', 'Palestine', 'Israel', 'conspiracy' or 'America'.

I think it's rather apalling that a member of the Esato staff should be allowed to engage in political aggrandizement to such an extent that he works himself into a position to come under such criticism in the first place.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-26 04:41 ]

Posted by haynesycop
I couldn't agree with you more Luke! It is such a shame to see these types of threads turn out this way.

There is an easy option if you don't like a thread DON'T READ IT, if you do not agree with people's opinions, say so but espect there's or just DON'T REPLY.

Simple pimple!

Have a nice evening people



_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: miss copperfield on 2006-05-26 18:32 ]

Posted by axxxr
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:


Oh dear, I'll be crying into my pillow tonight.



would did i exactly do wrong to you?...i don't see this attitude coming from anyone else?


Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:
Here come the violins ... How terribly kind of you to be so patient with the nasty scotsboyuk, it must be hard for you with me being so outrageous as to ask you to provide evidence for your rants or challenging your more paranoid and hate injected ramblings.



Patronising as usual....Pity because i thought you were better than that...don't know what evidence exactly your after??...but sounds like your after more than that.

Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:

That refutes that paranoia claim then!



Your the one being paranoid.

Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:

I don't hate you either, I just dislike you.



Well i don't dislike you or hate you....i can't force you to do either.

Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:

... just as much as you do into tarnishing Esato.



Your the one tarnishing esato which this nonsense.

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On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:

Well you do post news, but then that's not really what people object to.



You and a few other who object to the usual things....can't please everyone now can we?


[quote]
On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:
... an the winner of the Esato 2006 Understatement of the Year award goes to ...

Grow up mate!

Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:
They are your attempt at turning this forum into a soapbox to air your increasingly paranoid and hate soaked views. You claim you want political discussion, but when anyone actually tries to discuss an issue you cannot respond in a rational manner. What you really want is simply for people to pat you on the back and tell you how right you are. You are an attention seeker who needs the approval of other people.



Hate soaked according to you....If my opinions come across to you that way..then you have a right to your opinions but don't tell me what to do and what i should and should'nt be posting.....who's seeking attention here?.....other peoples opinions are important to me,some like yourself can't fathom the fact that i have a lot of support here.


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On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:

Please point out what I have said that is unfair.



Are you having a laugh?


Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:17:55, scotsboyuk wrote:
You can hold any view you like, I did say that before, but then I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised that you didn't read that or failed to pick up on it. I asked you before to tone down your political rhetoric, in fact, as I recall, you asked me what you should do and that was my advice to you. If you cannot tone down your rhetoric then you will simply have to expect people to keep challenging you.




I always pick up on what all members tell me and practice that advice as best i can...I took your advice last time i asked you,and considerably cut down on political/threads threads...but i don't supposed you've noticed that!...just another one of those excuses to have snipe at me would'nt you agree?....why don't you be honest and tell us whats really bothering you.



Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:25:12, Luke-the-magic-man wrote:

The reason people want to post about other issues is because theres a reel feel of comunity within these boards



A community feel tends not to last long when people are arguing about politics and religion.

Quote:

How can you say that the whole fredom of speach should be quietened down? If one is to give their opinion then they should say exactly what they think, not just dim it down so it doesnt offend anyone, what kind of cretin would want that?



You have no right to freedom of speech on Esato. This isn't a country, laffen can decide to limit discussions to whatever he wants.

Now we should be allowed to discuss whatever we wish wihtin the rules, but I don't see it as being very good for the forum if we are discussing issues that cause offense to so many people. If one wishes to discuss such issues go to a dedicated forum where people expect there to be controversial issues on a regular basis.

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All these posts debating the actions of terroists or talk of politics are not a bad thing, it shows that we as people actually care about the things going on in the world, what harm is there in discussing it? Its not as if were activly supporting terrorists or funding properganda.



Have you actually read through these threads? We have people calling for other people to be killed or denying the Holocaust. Is that conducive to a healthy community atmosphere?

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Now regards axxxr in this I seriously think those accusing him of being narrow minded too opinionated should actually consider what he is doing (I cant say what I really think as I think my post would get deleted by the mods). Yes its well known he has some issues regarding america and does post allot of topics on politics, but he also posts a hell of allot of other bits and peices based on mobile phones and other similar technologies.



I don't see objections to the non-political posts.

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I personally think his political threads are the best kind as its the only time I see people really getting into the subject at hand, I dont understand why people have a problem with this? He posts on lots of things and look how the 911 thread is going, well over 900 replys and thousands of views, now I think that clearly shows people want this kind of discussion?



They really get into the subject at hand? Every time I ask axxxr to get into the subject at hand he blusters and procrastinates. If he wants discussion then by all means discuss, but it is quite apparent that what he wants is a soapbox. Let's see some evidence to support his views, let's see some actual debate and discussion and not simply axxxr opinionating and making more wild, unfouned and hate filled claims.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-26 04:43 ]

Posted by Luke-the-magic-man

[/quote]


I do actually post in other threads on Esato; you may not be familiar with them as they tend not to include the terms 'Goerge Bush', 'Palestine', 'Israel', 'conspiracy' or 'America'.

I think it's rather apalling that a member of the Esato staff should be allowed to engage in political aggrandizement to such an extent that he works himself into a position to come under such criticism in the first place.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-05-26 18:30 ]
[/quote]

What do you mean appauling? He is what I would call a valued member of staff, he reports the news and gives his opinion, i think thouse are to very important qualities in any thread. You should really think allot harder about what he does. Yeh he posts allot about politics, didums. At least he gives his option at the matter of hand rather then the posters, I have no idea why you " dislike: him so much, it doesnt seem to make much sense to me, but prehaps youd like to give a go at presenting a opinion at the matter of hand rather then that of everyone else.

You say his options are biased - well duh! Its called mediation its like the matrix and its all around you, not even the bloody bbc reports a storey without it, every singe thing you read or see has been mediated so the audience will take a certain viewpoint on the article at hand. If you cant deal with it then post your own topic on the same subject but using a differnet view point?



Posted by dealer3
wow...
scot...whats wrong? what happened to you?
i thought you liked giving your opinion...you were prolly one of the biggest contributors to those threads...
its sad, you have resorted to slander, why and over what, i have no idea...
talking bout free speech...your saying threads related to politics/religion should be kept to a minimum, and then you say, 'we' dont like it when you say things...no one has ever said to you, dont speak, dont post...we debate, talk, give our opinion, not tell each other to stop thinking and go to another planet...in discussing ideas, we are trying to come to mutual understandings and educate ourselves on matters...
whats the problem...
if you have no intrest, if you dont like the threads, dont read them, is that too hard?

Posted by Luke-the-magic-man
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:38:15, scotsboyuk wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:25:12, Luke-the-magic-man wrote:

The reason people want to post about other issues is because theres a reel feel of comunity within these boards



A community feel tends not to last long when people are arguing about politics and religion.

See I diagree with that, we all have our own opionions and we should all RESPECT that, anyway theres not that many political threads these days I think you killed them off

Quote:

How can you say that the whole fredom of speach should be quietened down? If one is to give their opinion then they should say exactly what they think, not just dim it down so it doesnt offend anyone, what kind of cretin would want that?



You have no right to freedom of speech on Esato. This isn't a country, laffen can decide to limit discussions to whatever he wants.


yes, true but we can all discuss till the threads are deleted, and fredom of speach will cece to exist on esato


Now we should be allowed to discuss whatever we wish wihtin the rules, but I don't see it as being very good for the forum if we are discussing issues that cause offense to so many people. If one wishes to discuss such issues go to a dedicated forum where people expect there to be controversial issues on a regular basis.

Why not esato? I come here to read the news on all matters, I have been on political forums, but many of the people there dont speak their mind they just speak what they think is right

Quote:

All these posts debating the actions of terroists or talk of politics are not a bad thing, it shows that we as people actually care about the things going on in the world, what harm is there in discussing it? Its not as if were activly supporting terrorists or funding properganda.



Have you actually read through these threads? We have people calling for othe rpeople to be killed or denying the Holocaust. Is that conducive to a healthy community atmosphere?

Yes I have, although have not read the one in mention, but if thats someones opion we should not denigh it, althoguh as long as no one is saying yes we should create another hollocast and start planning it I believe its ok to debate the pros and cons of this, although I will say i am not one to suggest we have another hollocaust!

Quote:

Now regards axxxr in this I seriously think those accusing him of being narrow minded too opinionated should actually consider what he is doing (I cant say what I really think as I think my post would get deleted by the mods). Yes its well known he has some issues regarding america and does post allot of topics on politics, but he also posts a hell of allot of other bits and peices based on mobile phones and other similar technologies.



I don't see objections to the non-political posts.

What have you got against political threads? Are you really tony blair or something and dont like your party threated by the ongoings of members of a mobile phone forum

Quote:

I personally think his political threads are the best kind as its the only time I see people really getting into the subject at hand, I dont understand why people have a problem with this? He posts on lots of things and look how the 911 thread is going, well over 900 replys and thousands of views, now I think that clearly shows people want this kind of discussion?



They really get into the subject at hand? Every time I ask axxxr to get into the subject at hand he blusters and procrastinates. If he wants discussion then by all means discuss, but it is quite apparent that what he wants is a soapbox. Let's see some evidence to support his views, let's some actual debate and discussion and not simply axxxr opinionating and making more wild, unfouned and hate filled claims.

What do you mean? His opinion is opening a discussion?




Posted by PeterKay
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:31:54, miss copperfield wrote:

There is an easy option if you don't like a thread DON'T READ IT, if you do not agree with people's opinions, say so but espect there's or just DON'T REPLY.

Simple pimple!

Have a nice evening people




Well said Miss C.
Spot on.


Posted by fatreg
hurrah miss c.

turn a blind eye and all that.....

fatreg

Posted by PeterKay
and well said luke.
You are the magic man.


Posted by amnesia
apparantly when people slag off Islam or any other religion, it's freedom of speech.
I think that if the truth is the truth then it's fine.
But when it's to provicate its not.

There are more anti Islam threads on the net than Anti-anything in my opinion.

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:35:51, axxxr wrote:

would did i exactly do wrong to you?...i don't see this attitude coming from anyone else?



You are a demagogue, plain and simple. You use this forum as your own private soapbox and you get upset when people challenge you on your views. You hide behind freedom of speech, but you care nothing for actual discussion or the truth. You are only interested in disseminating your own awful and maligned view of the world, not actual debate or objective reasoning.

Quote:

Patronising as usual....



Look what I have to work with.

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Pity because i thought you were better than that...don't know what evidence exactly your after??...but sounds like your after more than that.



I have asked you on several occassions to provide evidence to back up your views, you have singularly failed to do so. You present your views as fact, you spread conspiracy theories as if they were concrete, yet you will not or cannot provide substantiating proof of such claims.

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Your the one being paranoid.



I don't normally use infantile responses so you will have to help me out here; is this the part where I say "No you are!"?

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Well i don't dislike you or hate you....i can't force you to do either.



Good for you.

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Your the one tarnishing esato which this nonsense.



Another one ... okay " No you are!" (It's rather easy when you get going actually )

There would be no need for anyone to criticise you as they do or to scrutinise your posts so much if you would simply refrain from spreading such awful invectives and actually back up your posts with solid evidence.

Quote:

You and a few other who object to the usual things....can't please everyone now can we?



So I do or don't object to your news posts? Since you seem know my opinion on them I would appreciate you informing me of it.

Quote:

Grow up mate!



Now that really hurt!

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Hate soaked according to you....If my opinions come across to you that way..then you have a right to your opinions but don't tell me what to do and what i should and should'nt be posting.....



One would hope that you wouldn't have to be told ...

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who's seeking attention here?



Apparently you are. You were the one who publicly announced you were leaving Esato when some people said things you didn't like. You were the one upset over not being included in my interview thread.

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.....other peoples opinions are important to me,some like yourself can't fathom the fact that i have a lot of support here.



The only support you require are the sleeves of a straighjacket.

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Are you having a laugh?



At you? Always.

Quote:

I always pick up on what all members tell me and practice that advice as best i can...I took your advice last time i asked you,and considerably cut down on political/threads threads...but i don't supposed you've noticed that!...just another one of those excuses to have snipe at me would'nt you agree?....why don't you be honest and tell us whats really bothering you.



You don't seem to realie that a biased post full of invective and bile is still going to illicit a response fom people. Cutting down the number of them isn't going to make much difference to the content. You were the one asking me what you should do and I gave you my advice, you seem to have chosen to ignore that, which makes me wonder why you bothered asking in the first place.

Believe me, you provide more than enough reasons for me to criticise you than I ever could.

Posted by fatreg
what does it all matter anyway?

one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter,

there is only one sure way for us to live in harmony and it isnt going to happen, so when even challenge others views and opinions?

people have been brought up to belive in things, i've been brought up to belive that all religion is a farce. and thats how i've lived my life, i dont go around preaching and telling you all that religion is made up and a farce as it would just create more and more mayhem. its a well known thing that religions are antagonistic of others.

Can't we all just live with the fact that not everyone likes eveyone? ig we did wouldn't the world be such a boring place if we all just got on?

fatreg

remember the only way to live in harmony is for mass genocide of the whole world...

Posted by Sammy_boy
Oh my goodness I'm soooo going to get it in the neck when a mod claps eyes on this thread......

I'd hoped people could talk about this rationally without it turning into scotsboyuk Vs axxxr.

I apologise for starting this thread, think I wasn't in the right frame of mind at the time and perhaps phrased a few things incorrectly

Posted by Jim
Just take an example: I would now post everything related to Palestinians but in a bad way, I'm not sure that people will just ignore the threads, sorry miss copperfield but the "don't like, don't read" can't really work for political/religious threads.

I'm for political/religious threads but not beeing labelled as a media child or a weak minded because I'm questioning the conspiracy theories, I cannot count how much time I had as reply to my questions the "you believe the US gov and everyhting on tv", that's the real problem with those threads.

Quote:
apparantly when people slag off Islam or any other religion, it's freedom of speech.



Ok, when did that occur on esato. Again and again no one is slagging Islam here.

_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: Jim on 2006-05-26 19:20 ]

Posted by scotsboyuk
Quote:

On 2006-05-26 19:41:31, Luke-the-magic-man wrote:

What do you mean appauling?



I mean i think it's bad, awful, terrible, not good, negative, etc.

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He is what I would call a valued member of staff, he reports the news and gives his opinion,



Let him give his opinion and let him report the news, do we have to have paranoid bias along with it?

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i think thouse are to very important qualities in any thread. You should really think allot harder about what he does. Yeh he posts allot about politics, didums. At least he gives his option at the matter of hand rather then the posters, I have no idea why you " dislike: him so much, it doesnt seem to make much sense to me, but prehaps youd like to give a go at presenting a opinion at the matter of hand rather then that of everyone else.



It doesn't make much sense to you that I should dislike someone who posts complete nonsense that is not only full of errors and half truths, but is also actually rather vile at times?

As for my opinion, read through some of the threads and you will find my opinion.

Quote:

You say his options are biased - well duh! Its called mediation its like the matrix and its all around you, not even the bloody bbc reports a storey without it, every singe thing you read or see has been mediated so the audience will take a certain viewpoint on the article at hand. If you cant deal with it then post your own topic on the same subject but using a differnet view point?



Bias isn't actually mediation, mediation involves compromise, which implies a level of objectivity.

It is perfectly possible to discuss a subject without being overly biased. Even if one does wish to put one's personal opinion into a post then one should not present it as fact. One should also not misprepsesent the truth. Surely that's something a 'news editor' wouldn't do?

Posted by haynesycop
It wouldn't have mattered how you phrased it, this is the consequence of any thread along these type's of lines. So i would not worry!

You have the right to post a thread like this but they cannot be treated with respect and maturity by some people, thats life though.



Posted by fatreg
check you out miss c.....



fatreg

Posted by PeterKay
Well said Miss C


Posted by WelshTom
First and foremost i do not agree with the personal nature this thread has taken on.

I do however believe that this thread highlights the very reason that prehaps less political & religous threads should be made. The point i was trying to make earlier is that these threads seem to divide esato and cause arguements like this and bring out the worst in people at times. e.g. the racist comments people have referred to (although i must admit i have not seen these).

I would be happier if everyone just got on


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