| Author |
K750i 30fps 3gp capable. |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
no
mp4 is just the container, like 3gp is a container
It contains either an mpeg4 videotrack and an AAC audiotrack, or a H263 videotrack and an AMR track. Or any combination of those.
A computer may play all kinds of videos of non standard resolutions, but when creating mobile content, you need to follow the standards that has been defined. These standards have been defined as such to be able to supply general mobile content to all mobiles supporting these standards. And mobiles are manufactured to follow these standards. |
|
|
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
Heres my version of the same IGN trailer
http://rapidshare.de/files/2570012/Killzone_numb.mp4.html
It only uses 150kbit/s video and 63kbit/s audio for a combined datarate of 213kbit/s and filesize of 3371 bytes, where FireFreaks uses 183kbit/s video and 198kbit/s audio for a combined datarate of 381kbit/s and filesize of 5957 bytes.
I would say my clips looks and sounds just as good on the phone as FireFreaks, and it actually does play smooth in full screen where FireFreaks does not play audio at all in full screen. And my clip only takes up a litle more than half the space.
I respect the demands for High Quality, I really do, but I fail to see the point in creating vids for the phone with so high datarates that the phone cant play them in full screen. Especially when theres so litle difference between the endresult of these clips.
Test both of them on the phone and deside from that.
|
Firefreak
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 159
From: Sweden
PM |
Quote:
|
On 2005-06-23 18:29:46, numb wrote:
Heres my version of the same IGN trailer
http://rapidshare.de/files/2570012/Killzone_numb.mp4.html
It only uses 150kbit/s video and 63kbit/s audio for a combined datarate of 213kbit/s and filesize of 3371 bytes, where FireFreaks uses 183kbit/s video and 198kbit/s audio for a combined datarate of 381kbit/s and filesize of 5957 bytes.
I would say my clips looks and sounds just as good on the phone as FireFreaks, and it actually does play smooth in full screen where FireFreaks does not play audio at all in full screen. And my clip only takes up a litle more than half the space.
I respect the demands for High Quality, I really do, but I fail to see the point in creating vids for the phone with so high datarates that the phone cant play them in full screen. Especially when theres so litle difference between the endresult of these clips.
Test both of them on the phone and deside from that.
|
|
Just did...
I'll take the 25fps one anytime... thank you... the soundquality on your clip is just horrid... seeing the characters move on the 15fps clip is just not fluent enough...
FPS is more important to me than resolution... people don't stutter when they walk or talk... I need them to move properly to believe what I'm seeing...
Guess that's just me... being an audiophile and all...
I'll be making a full screen capable one with as high a bitrate as possible soon...
_________________
---
K750i (R1J002 EU1 Europe_4)
K700i (R2AT003 EU4 Flashed using DaVinci)
[ This Message was edited by: Firefreak on 2005-06-23 22:25 ] |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
hehe
No offence FireFreak, but now I think you are just being a litle bit stubbarn 
Its encoded from an original mov file allready compressed, its not a hifi opera we are talking about, just a lot of shouting, shooting and rockets going off.
Calling the sound in my clip horrid is nonsense. Theres no mentionable difference between yours and mine, especially in the audio environment of this particular clip.
And theres also no noticeable stutter in my 15fps clip. Ive compared the clips several time frame by frame, at double speed, and at half speed. Movements look just as normal in my clip as it does in yours. After all it isnt even real humans moving in the clip, its just computergenerated motion.
And like I said, the whole point of encoding for the mobile is to actually be able to play it on the mobile, and only my clip runs perfect in full screen, yours run with no sound at all because the combined datarate is simply to high.
Furthermore I did some frame comparisons, and even though mine is encoded at only 150kbit/s while yours is encoded at 183kbit/s, mine has less compression artefacts than your clip. Its clear that the Nero mpeg4 codec handles compression better than the IMtoo mpeg4 codec
have a look - click on the pictures for full size (might even want to open them afterwards in an imageeditor and zoom 200%)
Having worked with these matters for many years I really do respect your hunger and quest for maximum quality possible. But cmon, be reasonable - we are not playing HDTV content on a 42inch HDTV, but mobile videos on a very small screen
As a real test try to encode the same clip with IMtoo again using the same settings as me and lets compare them instead
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-06-23 23:10 ] |
n3x
Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 74
From: UK
PM |
Ok im staying in the middle on this one!
I agree with both of yus... numb ur right, u dont need quality as high as that and firefreak ur right, 25 fps does look much nicer!
At the end of the day it depends what ur encoding, a music video would benefit alot from higher sound quality (say 128kbps) whereas a film or tv programme would benefit more from a balance of audio and video depending on personal preference.
I use mpegable, ive tried the rest and this is the best... for my requirements
Heres the settings i use for films:-
Video: Constant 150kbps/20fps
Audio: 40kbps/22hz/Stereo
A 2 hour film comes in at around 160mb and runs perfectly at full screen, thats good enough for me!
Thanks for all ur opinions tho 
- k750i - Europe_2 - R1N035 -
- k800i |
Firefreak
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 159
From: Sweden
PM |
The only conclusion we can agree on here is that you prefer filesize and I prefer sound quality and framerate... which is better is always up for debate I guess... Just as QuakeIIIArena fps or maximum detail was up for debate a few years ago... some argued that the "look and feel" of the game was more important and some that it was all about framerate...
Having shown my 25fps clips to some other audiophiles I know and seeing their reactions have been fun and I can gladly say that the clips work just as fine on S700i:s at the high framerate.
I do have one question though... have you listened to the audio in the videoclips with the headphones that came with the phone or just from the phones speaker?
---
W995 Black |
n3x
Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 74
From: UK
PM |
Guys wots better... bilinear or bicubic?
- k750i - Europe_2 - R1N035 -
- k800i |
numb
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: > 500
PM |
#FireFreak
I think you are missing some of my points
You keep saying youre an audiphile and talk about audio, I talk about the qualitylevel of the encoded videopart, not the audio.
Yes I have listened in the headphones and on my pc sorround speakers and the difference in audio is small.
As an audiophile, you must have noticed that the orginal IGN clip is not HIFI, and therefore theres not much point in encoding it in 198kbits AAC in the mp4 clip. In this particular clip its not the audiopart thats important, since its just alot of warnoises, its the videopart thats important here. You talk about audioquality in this clip, I talk about videoquality, audioquality is secondary in this clip since theres no music or other audiodemanding parts.
We fully agree that some clips that have music in them we both would like to encode in good audioquality, I do that to. We dont need to talk about audioquality. If I encode a musicvideo and want to listen to it in the headphones, I can use better audiosettings also.
What I was trying to show, had to do with videoquality - not audio, as this is just a selectable thing not dependent so much on the encoder used, but more on the bitrates selected by the user.
It also has nothing to do with filesize for me, but with playability and quality. Your clip would not play in full screen, mine would. That in itself is a major difference.
I was trying to show you that:
The Nero Recode encoder does a better job of encoding the video than the IMtoo encoder does. Even at a lower bitrate. I tried encoding the same clip again using same videobitrae as your 183kbit/s and did some framecaptures there also, and the difference in videoquality was hughe. So whats the point of having 25fps video, if the videoquality itself is poorer with much more ugly compressionartefacts. The difference in videoquality is much bigger and much more visible during playback than the difference in fps. Therefore I prefer the better videoquality with 15fps from Nero over the lower videoquality from IMtoo with 25fps. The framerate itself does not improve videoquality.
Ive showed your clip and my clip to alot of people both on the phone and on the pc and not a single one of them has been able to see the difference in framerate, but everyone could see the difference in videoquality.
At the end of the day, we all have different preferences, and naturally theres aboslutely nothing wrong with the preferences you have. My preferences are not more right than yours in any way, its really just a matter of a friendly exchange of views and preferences wich I feel benefits atleast me. Its allways interesting to see how others do it and try out their methods, sometimes one learns new stuff, like I learned from this that we can push the limit when creating videocontent which was nice
|
Firefreak
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 159
From: Sweden
PM |
I get what you're trying to say, I just don't happen to agree...
Audioquality to me is just as important nomatter what the clip is about. There is a reason people buy DTS versions of films even if they already have the DD one. Fluent video and high quality audio is whats most important to me. A 15fps video reminds me of old computers not being able to play it fast enough.
Luckily we can encode our videos to our own liking...
Would be interesting to se the IGN clip encoded with 25fps using the Nero encoder you had there... and 192kbit/s video and 128kbit/s audio...
And I also like the fact that were comparing ways to encode trying to find whats optimal. Were going to end up with higher quality clips either way...
Note: When the two crafts land in the IGN video, look at the parts flying by as the rear one explodes. In my video you get the impression of speed from the flying parts. In the 15fps one its just doesn't look like fast flying shrapnel from an explosion. Not to me atleast, we might disagree on this one...
The audio is VERY important in this clip as well. Whining bullets and ricochets are much more present in my clip and hence it makes the entire scene more imense...
_________________
---
K750i (R1J002 EU1 Europe_4)
K700i (R2AT003 EU4 Flashed using DaVinci)
[ This Message was edited by: Firefreak on 2005-06-24 11:22 ] |
jriff
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 9
PM |
Just a thing - if I encode a whole movie what to do about the fact that it is not possible to pause, fast forward or time seek? All you can do if you have to temporarily stop watching the movie is to start all over?
|
mak_attack
Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 68
PM |
i followed firefreak's settings and the end outcome was pants 
the video played for like a second and went all slow and then would not play. it would stutter etc
followed settings on the image you have uploaded.
what have i done wrong?
i will go back to QT for time being
thanks, |
Firefreak
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 159
From: Sweden
PM |
Quote:
|
On 2005-06-24 14:47:55, jriff wrote:
Just a thing - if I encode a whole movie what to do about the fact that it is not possible to pause, fast forward or time seek? All you can do if you have to temporarily stop watching the movie is to start all over?
|
|
It's a good idea to split the movie in a few parts... but on the K750 you can pause and fast forward / rewind...
---
W995 Black |
n3x
Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 74
From: UK
PM |
I split the film in 2 and if ur usin a k750 which im assuming u are you can only pause and seek in the media player, u cant in the filemanager!
- k750i - Europe_2 - R1N035 -
- k800i |
jriff
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 9
PM |
Damn, I'm not too smart All the stuff I wrote in this forum about the clip not beeing played in 176x144 and about not beeing able to pause or fast forward was because I used the file manager and not the media player... |
irfan
Joined: Jul 31, 2004
Posts: 238
From: glasgow
PM |
Can someone please post a start to finish guide for converting on mpeg live for the k750i thanks- similar to the one people did for converting for the p910i. I realise there is a debate still ongoing about certain elements but most of the settings I presume will be the same? |
|
|
Posted: 2005-06-23 17:37
