Forum &gt; Sony Ericsson / Sony &gt; General &gt; K750i 30fps 3gp capable.

Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 74
From: UK
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Posted: 2005-06-21 11:28

yeah just read all that. but like i said i tried this...

Video: 150kbps Constant - 20fps - mp4
Sound: Stereo 48kbps - 22hz

I split the film in half aswell to save time fast forwarding and rewinding.

During fast moving scenes the phone just cant seem to keep up! The video slows down, jumps, and sound goes alltogether until the action calms down again.

Am i the only one experiencing this?

Sorry just realised u edited ur other post, i'll give that a go then cheers

[ This Message was edited by: n3x on 2005-06-21 10:31 ]

Joined: Feb 07, 2005
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Posted: 2005-06-21 11:33

hahaha, were editing away here.

Thing to remember is also, if you want smooth playback, lower fps will allow higher bitrates, while higher fps will require lower bitrate to play smooth. It may be able to play high bitrate and it may be able to play 20-25 fps, but not allways both, you have to make some compromize between bitrate and framerate to get smooth playback.

Its a trial and error situation

[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-06-21 11:10 ]

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Posted: 2005-06-21 12:16

yeah cheers dude, ive been trialing and erroring for a couple of days now! Gonna try nero next methinks...

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Posted: 2005-06-21 12:32

a note is Nero only do 15fps videoencoding

Id keep below 150kbit/s for 20-25 fps video, more around 140kbit/s to ensure smooth playback, and only go above 150kbit/s for 15fps video.

Joined: Jul 02, 2004
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From: Sweden
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Posted: 2005-06-21 13:35

Quote:

On 2005-06-20 21:05:00, orange wrote:
Quote:

On 2005-06-20 20:10:31, numb wrote:
eh, I have a 25 fps 3�min clip on my phone, and it certainly does not drop any frames. Plays smooth as silk, and keeps synch perfect.
You can put as many "eh's" here as you want, but it still won't be 25 fps in the device. SE would definitely mention that in the specs, but they don't. You know why? Because it ain't capable of doing that. You can play the clip encoded with 25 fps, but it won't show you 25 fps in the device.

You are mistaken my friend. The 25fps Eric Prydz video I encoded plays 25fps on the K750 just fine. No matter what you say it's sooo much more fluent than 15fps. It looks exactly as smooth as the original video on the computer. When I encoded it using 15fps it doesn't have that smoothness to it at all. Looks artificial. The video I encoded uses 256kbit/s video and 128kbit/s audio. Works like a charm and outclasses any 15fps video I have EVER seen.

Download and try my Eric video and see for yourself. (Note: Sometimes the movie stutters, sometimes it does not. If you put it on phone memory it plays through almost every time with full framerate)

I have a 90Mb full episode of the latest Top Gear in 192kbit/s video and 128kbit/s audio 25fps that plays flawlessly and with full 25fps throughout the entire clip. Even if it's placed on the memorystick.
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[ This Message was edited by: Firefreak on 2005-06-21 13:01 ]

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Posted: 2005-06-21 14:24

Firefreak what program are u using to encode the videos??

Joined: Jul 02, 2004
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Posted: 2005-06-21 14:39

Quote:

On 2005-06-21 14:24:09, n3x wrote:
Firefreak what program are u using to encode the videos??

ImTOO 3GP Video Converter... You need the registered version to be able to have more than AMR 8khz audio quality...

I can post the settings used for the Eric video if anyone is interested...

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Posted: 2005-06-21 15:02

Yeah go on then give us ur settings and i'll give em a go, ive got imtoo but not used it much.

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[ This Message was edited by: n3x on 2005-06-21 14:24 ]

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Posted: 2005-06-21 17:23

#Firefreak

Im not to glad about IMtoo converter myself, dont think quality is optimal. Took a look at your clip and its certainly ok, but beleive Nero Recode or Xvid could do just as good with only 150kbit/s

I also think 128kbit stereo AAC is overdoing it quite alot.

I find Xvid or Nero Recoded 130-150kbit/s video 40-48kbit/s audio to give an optimal kompromise between quality/playbacksmoothness and filesize. And these settings also only generate half the filesizes your settings does.

I also think your clip needs to be cropped to fill the screen. I dont like clips to have to much black bars top/buttom, the screen isnt to big as it is.

Just my 2 cents

Heres an examplevideo that demonstrates these settings I find to be adequite quality. I encode all my clips like this one.

http://rapidshare.de/files/2526665/MyBoo.mp4.html

[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-06-21 17:19 ]

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Posted: 2005-06-21 18:18

Quote:

On 2005-06-21 17:23:03, numb wrote:
#Firefreak

Im not to glad about IMtoo converter myself, dont think quality is optimal. Took a look at your clip and its certainly ok, but beleive Nero Recode or Xvid could do just as good with only 150kbit/s

I also think 128kbit stereo AAC is overdoing it quite alot.

I find Xvid or Nero Recoded 130-150kbit/s video 40-48kbit/s audio to give an optimal kompromise between quality/playbacksmoothness and filesize.

I also think your clip needs to be cropped to fill the screen. I dont like clips to have to much black bars top/buttom, the screen isnt to big as it is.

Just my 2 cents

[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-06-21 16:25 ]

The clip is in correct aspect ratio, that means everything has the right proportions... that's important to me...

And 128kbit/s audio is an absolute minimum in my opinion since anything lower sounds really rubbish.

And I'm using Imtoo MPEG Converter... not 3GP... my mistake...

Well... proove it then... encode a video for me using the settings you like and I'll encode one and then we can compare them...

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Posted: 2005-06-21 18:29

Posted a link above
Thats only 140kbit/s video

Naturally you need to keep aspect ratio, you can still do that when you crop, by cropping the right amount of pixels from all sides. I understand that sometimes you cant crop completely because you would lose to much of the video if its 16x9, but still.

Not saying theres anything wrong with your method, and naturally 128kbit/s audio sounds better, but I really dont think its needed for encoding a Top Gear episode. And for musicvideos 96kbit/s aac is more than plenty quality audio, that would be the better quality than 128kbit/s mp3.

I only have a poor original of call on me to encode from, but here it is like I would have encoded and cropped it.

Its only half the filesize of yours, but still acceptable quality for playback on the mobile.

http://rapidshare.de/files/2527352/EricPrydsCallOnMe.mp4.html

[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-06-21 17:46 ]

orange

Joined: Mar 13, 2002
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Posted: 2005-06-21 19:28

Quote:

On 2005-06-21 11:10:26, numb wrote:
#orange

I am allready involved with the S//E development department and well aware what the k750 is capable off or not, dont need to contact no help desk.

By saying that, then you can actually provide data from system level analizing tool, which are used to measure the system performance at the run time in different situtations. You could also get video performance data out of such tool.

Quote:

On 2005-06-21 11:10:26, Firefreak wrote:
No matter what you say it's sooo much more fluent than 15fps. It looks exactly as smooth as the original video on the computer.

As I said, that's quite hard to notice since mobile video players are usually optimized in a such way that they don't drop frames randomly. At the decoding time the frames are compared with each other and the frames where the information is not changed or is changed only little compared to the previous frame are dropped. That's why it may be very hard to notice with the human eye.

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Posted: 2005-06-21 20:04

#orange

That would propably be possible yes, but I dont really see a reason to make such a big case of it.

If frames are dropped it will happen randomly when the datarate gets to high for the phone or storagemedia (phonememory or memorycard) or for the decoder to keep up, and you would be able to see it as clear stutter in the playback.

Im not directly involved in develpment of Mobile Video Players but I refuse to beleive they are optimized to drop frames based on framecomparison of each frame at decoding time and from that deside which frames to drop to avoid stutter. Its much more cpu demanding to compare each frame and deside which to drop than it is to actually play them. Framecomparison is done when you encode and compress the video based on different encodingtechniques. Which is why it requires rather extensive cpu power to encode for instance mpeg2 in real time. But lets not get into a long and winded discussion about encoding/decoding. Point is that you can actually with the human eye see the difference on a K750 between a 15fps and a 25fps encoded video, and if the bitrate is not to high you can play 25fps video very smooth on the K750.

Lets just agree that we have a difference of opinion and leave it at that.

[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-06-21 19:10 ]

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Posted: 2005-06-22 08:58

Firefreak i downloaded ur eric prydz video and yeah the quality is good and it runs nicely until i switch to full screen! Then it will pause every 1 or 2 seconds and looses sound... ive tried on the phones memory and on the memory card but alas its still unwatchable at full screen! anyone else the same?

[ This Message was edited by: n3x on 2005-06-22 08:05 ]