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Author Winston Churchill's 104-year-old parrot is still alive and cursing
axxxr
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Posted: 2004-11-10 01:50
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On 2004-11-10 01:48:37, miss uk wrote:
Im 26 got awhile ennit ive kept pigeons, and a goose previousley!




Damm you do like birds! [addsig]
Miss UK
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Posted: 2004-11-10 01:57
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Yeah when i was a teen id takecare of injured birds wild pigeons they always came back when let them go :-) i found the gosling abandoned took it home and watch it grow! Sadley a fox got it broke my heart that did! :-(

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absinthebri
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Posted: 2004-11-10 12:51
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On 2004-11-10 00:07:23, scotsboyuk wrote:
@absin

Which publication are you reffering to?




Churchill the anti-Semite:
"This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)... this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire." -- Writing on 'Zionism versus Bolshevism' in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 1920

Churchill in praise of Adolf Hitler:
"One may dislike Hitler's system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as admirable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations." -- From his Great Contemporaries, 1937

Churchill wanted to sterilize the mental ill:
"The unnatural and increasingly rapid growth of the feeble-minded and insane classes, coupled as it is with a steady restriction among all the thrifty, energetic and superior stocks, constitutes a national and race danger which it is impossible to exaggerate... I feel that the source from which the stream of madness is fed should be cut off and sealed up before another year has passed." -- Churchill to Asquith, 1910

Churchill the racist:
"It is alarming and nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a campaign of civil disobedience, to parlay on equal terms with the representative of the Emperor-King." -- Commenting on Gandhi's meeting with the Viceroy of India, 1931

Churchill in favour of gassing 'lower grade' of races:
"I do not understand the squeamishness about the use of gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisonous gas against uncivilised tribes." -- Writing as president of the Air Council, 1919

Read enough about the "greatest Briton" who ever lived?
[addsig]
Sammy_boy
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Posted: 2004-11-10 13:20
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@absinthe - you read some 'interesting' articles!

btw, regarding Churchill and mental health - he would have to gas himself, as he suffered from bi-polar disorder, or 'manic depression', to use an old term.

I do like the 'Dubya' quote though!
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

methylated_spirit
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Posted: 2004-11-10 13:33
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macaws live to an average age of between 120 and 150 years.
Hello, Scroto!

U.G.L.Y. You ain't got no alibi, you ugly!
absinthebri
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Posted: 2004-11-10 13:34
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On 2004-11-10 13:20:53, Sammy_boy wrote:
@absinthe - you read some 'interesting' articles!




Sure. Read books, get brain!

[addsig]
Vlammetje
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Posted: 2004-11-10 13:36
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I wonder if we could ever have a thread about anybody without some 'anti-semite' or 'anti-something else' argument being brought up. This thread is about his ******** parrot!

I know I won't be posting anything on walt Disney anytime soon (this is NOT a cue!) There is enough g*dd**m pain in this world and in my country without having to have the bad points of every single person rubbed in over and over again.


The parrot has been on tv over here a couple of years ago and from what I remember it was suggested that it is a well trained parrot that isn't anywhere near 104 yrs old
Sammy_boy
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Posted: 2004-11-10 14:51
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@absinthe - what's a 'brain'?

(sorry, I'm dragging this waaaay off topic!)

@vlamm - I agree totally with you there!
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

absinthebri
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Posted: 2004-11-10 15:43
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I agree, too. If we don't engage in a dialectical discussion around intolerance it just goes away, as the Dutch experience demonstrates.

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Vlammetje
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Posted: 2004-11-10 15:54
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I don't think you are in a psoition to tell me about the dutch experience.... so please don't.


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The Churchill family has questioned Mr Oram's story and historians have said they are unsure if the leader ever owned a parrot.


Source

By the way the one shown on TV a few years ago had a lot less feathers and was skinnier than the on in this picture...
scotsboyuk
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Posted: 2004-11-10 16:00
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On 2004-11-10 12:51:00, absinthebri wrote:


Churchill the anti-Semite: ... Writing on 'Zionism versus Bolshevism' in the Illustrated Sunday Herald, February 1920



Selective quotations are fun, but I think you will find, if you care to read and post the full article that what Churchill was in fact writing about was the threat of Bolshevism. Churchill was very much an anti-communist and was in favour of a Jewish state. Here is the article in full;

A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People

By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.

SOME people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.

And it may well be that this same astounding race may at the present time be in the actual process of producing another system of morals and philosophy, as malevolent as Christianity was benevolent, which, if not arrested would shatter irretrievably all that Christianity has rendered possible. It would almost seem as if the gospel of Christ and the gospel of Antichrist were destined to originate among the same people; and that this mystic and mysterious race had been chosen for the supreme manifestations, both of the divine and the diabolical.

The National Russian Jews, in spite of the disabilities under which they have suffered, have managed to play an honourable and successful part in the national life even of Russia. As bankers and industrialists they have strenuously promoted the development of Russia's economic resources, and they were foremost in the creation of those remarkable organisations, the Russian Cooperative Societies. In politics their support has been given, for the most part, to liberal and progressive movements, and they have been among the staunchest upholders of friendship with France and Great Britain.



International Jews.

In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus- Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.



Terrorist Jews.

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and an the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution: by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses.

The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.


"Protector of the Jews."

Needless to say, the most intense passions of revenge have been excited in the breasts of the Russian people. Wherever General Denikin's authority could reach, protection was always accorded to the Jewish population, and strenuous efforts were made by his officers to prevent reprisals and to punish those guilty of them. So much was this the case that the Petlurist propaganda against General Denikin denounced him as the Protector of the Jews. The Misses Healy, nieces of Mr. Tim Healy, relating their personal experiences in Kieff, have declared that to their knowledge on more than one occasion officers who committed offences against Jews were reduced to the ranks and sent out of the city to the front. But the hordes of brigands by whom the whole vast expanse of the Russian Empire is becoming infested do not hesitate. to gratify their lust for blood and for revenge at the expense of the innocent Jewish population whenever an opportunity occurs. The brigand Makhno, the hordes of Petlura and of Gregorieff, who signalised their every success by the most brutal massacres, everywhere found among the half-stupefied, half-infuriated population an eager response to anti-Semitism in its worst and foulest forms. The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with the villainies which are now being perpetrated.



A Home for the Jews.

Zionism offers the third sphere to the political conceptions of the Jewish race. In violent contrast to international communism.

Zionism has already become a factor in the political convulsions of Russia, as a powerful competing influence in Bolshevik circles with the international communistic system. Nothing could be more significant than the fury with which Trotsky has attacked the Zionists generally, and Dr. Weissmann in particular. The cruel penetration of his mind leaves him in no doubt that his schemes of a world-wide communistic State under Jewish domination are directly thwarted and hindered by this new ideal, which directs the energies and the hopes of Jews in every land towards a simpler, a truer, and a far more attainable goal. The struggle which is now beginning between the Zionist and Bolshevik Jews is little less than a struggle for the soul of the Jewish people.

Quote:

Churchill in praise of Adolf Hitler:



Those selective quotations are just running freely today aren't they? Churchill in fact said;

"One may dislike Hitler's system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations." But Churchill cautioned: "We cannot tell whether Hitler will be the man who will once again let loose upon the world another war in which civilization will irretrievably succumb, or whether he will down in history as the man who restored honour and peace of mind to the Great Germanic nation.” -First published in The Strand Magazine, November 1935, when Hitler was still within Germany's borders.

Quote:

Churchill wanted to sterilize the mental ill:



This was a widely held opinion at the time; as any student of history worth his salt will tell you, one cannot judge history or historical figures based on current moral values. Just because something isn't palatable to a modern reader isn't justification to condemn it, our present values are often different from the periods of history, which we study.

Quote:

Churchill the racist:



One again selective quotations and a modern cultural bias are muddying the water, so to speak. Churchill said;

"It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious Middle Temple lawyer of the type well-known in the East, now posing as a fakir, striding half naked up the steps of the Viceregal palace to parley on equal terms with the representative of the King-Emperor." -Commenting on Gandhi's meeting with the Viceroy of India, 1931 **NOTE: Much later, when the India Bill had passed despite Churchill's opposition, Churchill sent this message for Gandhi through a mutual friend: "Mr Gandhi has gone very high in my esteem since he stood upfor the untouchables...I do not care whether you are more or less loyal to Great Britain...Tell Mr Gandhi to use the powers that are offered and make the thing a success." -Churchill to G.D. Birla, 1935, in Gilbert, "Winston S. Churchill," vol. 5 (London: Heinemann 1977), page 618.

'Racism' was something that was very much prevalent throughout the Western world at this time. Many Europeans believed themselves to be superior to non-Europeans. In our eyes this is racism, to the majority of Europeans at the time it was a socially acceptable belief.

Quote:

Churchill in favour of gassing 'lower grade' of races:



Churchill in fact said;

Churchill on poison gas: Churchill is often quoted out of context on this subject. The full quote, rarely published in entirety was: "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected." War Office Departmental Minute, 12 May 1919, Churchill Papers 16/16, Churchill Archives Centre, Cambridge. (Clearly Churchill distinguished between the deadly gas of World War II and the tear gas he proposed to use against "uncivilised tribes.")

I would also point out that 'uncivilised tribes' is again a cultural norm for the period. This isn't a case of Churchill being racist, he is merely reflecting the widespread belief at the time that Europeans were superior to non-Europeans and especially to those natives of the Empire who were nomadic or agrarian in nature.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-11-10 15:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2004-11-10 15:07 ]
absinthebri
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Posted: 2004-11-10 16:55
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Scots, I think you made my point much more eloquently than I ever could. Vlamm, you're right - I can't talk about the Dutch experience. After all, I'm one of 'them' and not one of 'us'.

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Vlammetje
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Posted: 2004-11-10 16:58
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shouldn't this be in a different thread?
scotsboyuk
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Posted: 2004-11-10 17:00
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@absin

That's it? I was at least expecting to be called an imperialistic Zionist anti-socialist anti femininist warmongering racist ageist elitist autocratic religious fanatic Nazi sympathiser.
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
Vlammetje
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Posted: 2004-11-10 17:08
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On 2004-11-10 16:55:59, absinthebri wrote:
Scots, I think you made my point much more eloquently than I ever could. Vlamm, you're right - I can't talk about the Dutch experience. After all, I'm one of 'them' and not one of 'us'.



no brian, you are neither. you are like a bloody politician, with books in your hand telling the world how it should be. Well guess what? the world isn't quite like the books prescribe.

You don't get to make judgments on everything that's wrong in my country because you don't have to live it. Did you read my pm? That's it. I have never separated the world in 'them' and 'us'. But my world, my city and even the people around me are becoming 'them' and 'us' How do you think that makes me feel?
Why on earth should I tolerate some book-nitwit to make comments? What do you know?

I don't know why i bother getting into arguments with you.

Whatever happened to the parrot
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