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SONY Xperia Rumors 2013 Edition |
Jubei1
Joined: Feb 19, 2013
Posts: 99
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On 2013-04-30 13:15:26, randomuser wrote:
^
Check Optimus G2 leaked benchmarks. It runs S800 @ 1.7ghz.
Because its running early silicon. S800 has not even gone into mass production yet. When Cortex A15 was originally shown, they were running it at 800 Mhz (Texas Instruments OMAP 5 last year) big difference between early silicon and finished chip
Again. S800 has no real architectural benefits over S600, its strength is mainly from the increased clock speed and faster L2 cache, S600 already has support for LPDDR3 and Samsung has even overclocked the Adreno 320 GPU to 450 MHz (thats why its faster than HTC One) so it makes no sense to limit S800 clock speed for battery reasons, it doesnt work that way
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Ambivalent_
Joined: Oct 15, 2012
Posts: > 500
From: Croatia, Zagreb
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On 2013-04-30 15:32:15, Jubei1 wrote:
On 2013-04-30 13:15:26, randomuser wrote:
^
Check Optimus G2 leaked benchmarks. It runs S800 @ 1.7ghz.
Because its running early silicon. S800 has not even gone into mass production yet. When Cortex A15 was originally shown, they were running it at 800 Mhz (Texas Instruments OMAP 5 last year) big difference between early silicon and finished chip
Again. S800 has no real architectural benefits over S600, its strength is mainly from the increased clock speed and faster L2 cache, S600 already has support for LPDDR3 and Samsung has even overclocked the Adreno 320 GPU to 450 MHz (thats why its faster than HTC One) so it makes no sense to limit S800 clock speed for battery reasons, it doesnt work that way
You make a lot of sense and I hope you're right. If not, I believe Honami performance will be something in between S4 and Note 3.
As for the new Samsung RAM (20 nm 4 GB module) I think there's no chance for Honami getting it because even Note 3 won't have it. This technology may not be ready in that period. I think we'll be getting 2GB in Honami.
[ This Message was edited by: Ambivalent_ on 2013-04-30 14:38 ] |
RumrCollectr
Joined: Apr 02, 2013
Posts: 37
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On 2013-04-30 14:47:04, JoJotaro wrote:
@Xajil True. But the SoC will only reach 2.3GHz if needed. Limited at 1.7GHz when more is actually needed would either crash the application/system or push the SoC to its max more often... Anyway, it doesn't make sense to me to limit the SoC unless they did a bad job with handling the heat generated maybe...
Awful lot of armchair SOC experts in this thread. The application will never crash because the processor hits the clock ceiling. Ever. That would be a "recall all the S800 ever made" level flaw.
Heat generated is a huge issue for mobile handsets. Huge. It's not as simple as "doing a bad job with it". No-one wants a handset that gets too hot. No one wants a handset that looks like a heatsink. The marketing guys all want glass backs, which is about two hundred times less heat conductive than aluminium, so it's not easy to shift heat out. What's worse is that heat damages batteries, potentially catastrophically, but more likely simply reducing their lifetime which (for a device without an interchangeable cell) is a big deal. Worst of all, the batteries themselves heat up when being quick charged, so you need to spec your device for a situation of quick charging batteries AND high load. Design at that level is about compromise.
We haven't even talked about nonlinearities in power demand or the possibility of binning issues. In short: there are a lot of reasons that clockspeed might be throttled and the Exynos is going to have them just the same.
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ascariss
Joined: Apr 06, 2013
Posts: > 500
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Anywhooooo
Any chance that active noise cancellation (built in) like on the walkman range would migrate over to the xperia range? I don't mean noise cancellation for calling but when one is listening to music. |
Jubei1
Joined: Feb 19, 2013
Posts: 99
PM |
OEMs can definately ship phones with lower clock speed because of heat reasons, not battery life. But it would be more like 2,0 GHz such as in DACHAs leak, not 1,7 GHz. If some genius at Sony really wants to buy S800 chips only to underclock them by that much, he should be fired. HPM process is more expensive than LP process (wich S4 and S600 are built on) it makes zero sense to do that, much cheaper to buy S600 chips that are already widely available
But its also misleading to compare Snapdragon to Exynos, Snapdragon as mentioned uses asynchronous processing, Exynos does not, thats why you need to be much more careful with clock frequency since if you switch to the A15 chips, they will be running at that frequency regardless. The Snapdragon however can have a top speed of 2,3 GHz but in 99% of all tasks it will actually run much slower since there is nothing really today that demands 2,3 GHz speed on 1 core let alone all 4 cores. So heat is a far less problem with Qualcomm chips
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nightwing369
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Posts: 415
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^ and to be fair, any speed/performance increases in phones by this point are negligable. As (I think it was) @randomuser mentioned, his Xperia S can still compete with the HTC One. I don't think Sony should be trying to necessarily keep up with this constant cpu clock speed increase race. Sticking with what they have now (Quad-core 1.8 'ish GHz) phones should be more than sufficient/future proof for at least the next 5 years. For now, they should be adding larger capacity batteries into its phones, such as 4000mAh or greater.
Check this for the latest on the upcoming Sony phones for 2013: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AreyfktYnDHtdHN0bVFPdUFJd0ZiNzZQcjMwV1I5M0E#gid=0 |
RumrCollectr
Joined: Apr 02, 2013
Posts: 37
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On 2013-04-30 15:55:39, Jubei1 wrote:
OEMs can definately ship phones with lower clock speed because of heat reasons, not battery life. But it would be more like 2,0 GHz such as in DACHAs leak, not 1,7 GHz. If some genius at Sony really wants to buy S800 chips only to underclock them by that much, he should be fired. HPM process is more expensive than LP process (wich S4 and S600 are built on) it makes zero sense to do that, much cheaper to buy S600 chips that are already widely available
But its also misleading to compare Snapdragon to Exynos, Snapdragon as mentioned uses asynchronous processing, Exynos does not, thats why you need to be much more careful with clock frequency since if you switch to the A15 chips, they will be running at that frequency regardless. The Snapdragon however can have a top speed of 2,3 GHz but in 99% of all tasks it will actually run much slower since there is nothing really today that demands 2,3 GHz speed on 1 core let alone all 4 cores. So heat is a far less problem with Qualcomm chips
My friend, I must be blunt: you have no idea what you're talking about. Lower clocked phones are frequently shipped to improve battery life because lower voltage can be used at lower frequencies and the power drain is proportional to the *square* of the voltage.
Plus you are wrong about Exynos. Exynos implements per-core dynamic frequency and voltage scaling, so they do not run at that frequency regardless, they scale per load much like the SD800.
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Jubei1
Joined: Feb 19, 2013
Posts: 99
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On 2013-04-30 16:00:32, nightwing369 wrote:
^ and to be fair, any speed/performance increases in phones by this point are negligable. As (I think it was) @randomuser mentioned, his Xperia S can still compete with the HTC One. I don't think Sony should be trying to necessarily keep up with this constant cpu clock speed increase race. Sticking with what they have now (Quad-core 1.8 'ish GHz) phones should be more than sufficient/future proof for at least the next 5 years. For now, they should be adding larger capacity batteries into its phones, such as 4000mAh or greater.
Unless i missed something then thats not what he said at all. He said his Xperia S scores the same as HTC One wich proves these browser tests are manipulated through software. But he doesnt think Snapdragon S3 is equal to S600
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Jubei1
Joined: Feb 19, 2013
Posts: 99
PM |
On 2013-04-30 16:05:26, RumrCollectr wrote:
On 2013-04-30 15:55:39, Jubei1 wrote:
OEMs can definately ship phones with lower clock speed because of heat reasons, not battery life. But it would be more like 2,0 GHz such as in DACHAs leak, not 1,7 GHz. If some genius at Sony really wants to buy S800 chips only to underclock them by that much, he should be fired. HPM process is more expensive than LP process (wich S4 and S600 are built on) it makes zero sense to do that, much cheaper to buy S600 chips that are already widely available
But its also misleading to compare Snapdragon to Exynos, Snapdragon as mentioned uses asynchronous processing, Exynos does not, thats why you need to be much more careful with clock frequency since if you switch to the A15 chips, they will be running at that frequency regardless. The Snapdragon however can have a top speed of 2,3 GHz but in 99% of all tasks it will actually run much slower since there is nothing really today that demands 2,3 GHz speed on 1 core let alone all 4 cores. So heat is a far less problem with Qualcomm chips
My friend, I must be blunt: you have no idea what you're talking about. Lower clocked phones are frequently shipped to improve battery life because lower voltage can be used at lower frequencies and the power drain is proportional to the *square* of the voltage.
Plus you are wrong about Exynos. Exynos implements per-core dynamic frequency and voltage scaling, so they do not run at that frequency regardless, they scale per load much like the SD800.
Nope. Exynos Octa still uses synchronous processing. That means each CPU core runs at fixed value for both voltage and frequency. |
RumrCollectr
Joined: Apr 02, 2013
Posts: 37
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Nope. Exynos Octa still uses synchronous processing. That means each CPU core runs at fixed value for both voltage and frequency.
No.
They've done DVFS since Exynos 4 a year ago |
Jubei1
Joined: Feb 19, 2013
Posts: 99
PM |
Cortex A9 is not Cortex A15
http://www.arm.com/files/down[....]he_big.LITTLE_architecture.pdf
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nightwing369
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Posts: 415
PM |
Can we get back on topic please now. If you guys want to go start a processor/CPU thread, go do that and allow this thread to continue the way it originally started. Many thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: nightwing369 on 2013-04-30 15:39 ] Check this for the latest on the upcoming Sony phones for 2013: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AreyfktYnDHtdHN0bVFPdUFJd0ZiNzZQcjMwV1I5M0E#gid=0 |
Ambivalent_
Joined: Oct 15, 2012
Posts: > 500
From: Croatia, Zagreb
PM |
On 2013-04-30 16:39:27, nightwing369 wrote:
Can we get back on topic please now. If you guys want to go start a processor/CPU thread, go do that and allow this thread to continue the way it originally started. Many thanks.
[ This Message was edited by: nightwing369 on 2013-04-30 15:39 ]
They are on topic, don't you wanna know how fast Honami could be?
These guys posts are very interesting and informative. |
RumrCollectr
Joined: Apr 02, 2013
Posts: 37
PM |
Here's a link to a presentation of the big.LITTLE dev kit where you can see frequency scaling happening. Frequency is not fixed.
Anyway, we've definitely corrupted this thread enough. Back to topic I think.
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nightwing369
Joined: Mar 18, 2013
Posts: 415
PM |
On 2013-04-30 16:42:12, Ambivalent_ wrote:
On 2013-04-30 16:39:27, nightwing369 wrote:
Can we get back on topic please now. If you guys want to go start a processor/CPU thread, go do that and allow this thread to continue the way it originally started. Many thanks.
They are on topic, don't you wanna know how fast Honami could be?
These guys posts are very interesting and informative.
I'm a bit less interested now. As I mentioned before:
On 2013-04-30 16:00:32, nightwing369 wrote:
^ and to be fair, any speed/performance increases in phones by this point are negligable... and: ...Sticking with what they have now (Quad-core 1.8 'ish GHz) phones should be more than sufficient/future proof for at least the next 5 years.
On 2013-04-30 16:51:35, RumrCollectr wrote:
Anyway, we've definitely corrupted this thread enough. Back to topic I think. +1 (definitely)
[ This Message was edited by: nightwing369 on 2013-04-30 15:53 ] Check this for the latest on the upcoming Sony phones for 2013: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AreyfktYnDHtdHN0bVFPdUFJd0ZiNzZQcjMwV1I5M0E#gid=0 | |
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Posted: 2013-04-30 15:32
