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New Sony Ericsson G Series |
Keiki
Joined: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 160
From: Valhalla
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@nipsen
Sounds youre being obssesed with the past UIQ Failure mate.
Lets give a chance to this new breed  | |
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Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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No, I agree with that - it's placed and marketed differently, which will only be good for the sales. What I'm saying is that SE will continue to not consider a real support- department a necessity for generating sales. Meaning that if the g- series sells a lot in spite of the problems, it'll simply generate less revenue because of support- requests.
Other than that - you are not a typical user, either. Because you're willing to test different ways of getting things done. And I'm guessing you're measuring one feature missing against another feature that was included, and decide that on balance it's pretty good. Most potential users won't accept that, if it's removing a critical feature, or even expected behaviour in some program.
I know a guy who sell phones who say that as well - that a lot of people would be happier if they steered clear of the smartphone hype altogether.
And I can't say I blame him - personally, I know exactly what the OS is capable of - and that's infuriating when you buy a phone that appears to be deliberately nerfed. But even that's not as bitter as those who bought the phone only to find out that it's actually not more advanced for a lot of things compared to their w300.
That's also why, imo, nokia wins over the larger part of the symbian market in the end - because it has a familiar UI, and while it tends to have random problems if you, you know, use it - the core functions are good enough that people happily reset their phone if whatever "extra" program they installed crashed.
But that's not how UIQ was meant to work, so from the same point of view - with the current lack of functions and support from SE - what we really have is a slightly crippled unit that attempts to make up for that by offering extra functions. And that's just not a good selling point - "allright, so it doesn't have profiles, but it has TrackID".. *shrug* Doesn't work, you see. "It has profiles, /and/ trackID" - now that would work.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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On 2008-04-15 17:46:00, Keiki wrote:
@nipsen
Sounds youre being obssesed with the past UIQ Failure mate.
Lets give a chance to this new breed
Look. It's a UIQ 3.0 unit with a new shell. It's not "a new breed". I'm willing to entertain the idea that SE will eventually see the point with positioning themselves on the market with more modern and up to date software on all their phones, of course.
But the fact of the matter is that evidently they do not consider that an important part of their sales- package now. And why should they? Either people don't think the lack of functions matter - or they're going to buy the new unit, in the hope that something's changed..? But the causation between software issues and lack of development just doesn't seem convincing at SE HQ. And I don't see how that's being "obsessed" with past UIQ failures. That's simply an observation of how SE is flagging and positioning their UIQ devices.
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[ This Message was edited by: Nipsen on 2008-04-15 17:14 ] |
Keiki
Joined: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 160
From: Valhalla
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@nipsen
Yeah, i got your point
I think for UIQ developer adding profile features shouldnt be a big problem. Just a little tweak-tweaky job. But maybe the demand for the profile wasnt high so the didnt make it to the phone  |
Nipsen
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...But what is "high demand"? If you're selling smartphones, you're not primarily selling "phone- functions" at the present. Instead you're selling "extras" and "video", and "music", podcasts and connectivity options - usage as modem, and so on. So is traditional feedback for a niche- product like UIQ phones - unless it's going to be extremely loud feedback - really have an impact on the sales- package?
The truth is that it won't. And unfortunately, the problem with no profiles at the moment is that the functions aren't available to anyone else than SE. If the global settings- layer was accessible in some way - then there would be a profile app made already.
The same goes for certain other functions, such as for making new overlays, or manipulating keyboard- input on different screens than the active one - it's just not documented or made available, so any programs made for commercial sales should not be using it.
So, for example: cps and the boot- manager. They can't sell a product that's not deployable with the official package, or something that may be more intrusive than the security- model suggests it should be. Which means that minor hacks - which in this case means changing files outside the program's own private area without using a supplied and tested/safe core function - will make the program unsellable, as well as difficult to support.
The same would be for any potential fix for the profiles - we lack the entire facility for changing global settings effectively - the same also goes for the backlight - so any programs supposed to use these functions will have to make use of curious and potentially very unreliable methods.
And that's /only/ SE's fault. It has nothing to do with UIQ as such, other than that SE has managed to write sucky programs for it - while somehow UIQ has not seen fit to require SE to provide any sort of minimal specification demands when it comes to creating programs. So understand that I'm not exaggerating when I say that this is not going to change unless SE changes their policy on software support and development.
I wouldn't even say it would take all that much effort to fix it either. I think a team of experienced programmers who know the system could most likely add most of what we've listed on the wiki in a couple of weeks. Failing that, they could add a "server"/api module for global settings as a separate project. That's one day, maybe, if you have the documentation. The same for generating on device object- manipulation support for the in- built message and calendar application. It's not impossible to do - at all.
Another example - keys for the media- player when in minimized mode, or for global use - it's not impossible to do, the hooks for keyboard- input exists in the templates for the programs already (take a look at the media- player skin hack that's turned up after the phones were hacked - it's right there in the code - you simply need to add the right scancodes, and route the right functions).
Of course - an option would be to incorporate some of these things into new UIQ versions, and then just drop those to the units for support. But again - that would require SE to change their view on how to support their units. And they would have to ween themselves off the thought that rom- upgrades is the same as giving things away, and undermining future sales.
And I'm not holding my breath until that happens, you know.. In fact, like the UIQ dudes say - they would want to encourage SE to create more user- friendly and customiseable input - but since it's entirely up to SE how to use the templates UIQ offers - as well as remove and cripple the entire unit by hardcoding everything that's possible to hardcode into their programs, so only those can ever be able to use these functions - then that's their business. And UIQ is evidently going to just ignore this, and say it's "up to their customers". As if they couldn't make demands on certain structural requirements for any programs, and availability of certain functions, instead of vaguely putting the pressure on SE to improve things on their end.
I mean.. why not include those apis in the "phone- manufacturer" tier of the symbian- signed? It makes no sense that it isn't, right? Until you realise that the problem is they just don't see the point with developing it.
Because - as I said - doing so would not improve their sales- package from their point of view.
- Can we change that? Yes. But it means being clear on what you're buying, instead of adapting to the sales- pitch. ...And proclaim that.. "hm, so in this next version, I suppose I really do think everything's going to be fixed - why, I'll buy the unit and encourage everyone to buy one as well. Because it looks so sleek on the commercial, and it's got to be better than the last one, right? That's how it always works. Just ask Cher's plastic surgeon. And besides, it's not a "dumphone" anymore, so it's not really fair to compare with a "less advanced phone"? No, we need to judge it on it's own merit, compared to itself only, and with other abysmally underdeveloped and overpriced smartphones on the market - that's how things should be, and glory to the poor phone- manufacturers who I will have to bribe by bying their shitty phones so they'll make a good product". And so on.
You know.. avoid that.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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P1 users on average seem to be happy enough. I don't feel the P1, now, is any worse in stability terms than N95. My brother in law has N95. He's not a tech head, but he does use his phone a lot, and it crashes once day or so. When it crashes he just restarts, he still thinks of the phone as a great little unit.
For P1, maybe there could be a better feature set (hardware and software) but generally people are aware of what they are buying with P1 so it's not a nasty surprise. If average end users like my bro-in-law can accept the occasional crash in an N95, then I don't think P1 can really be considered a failure. If g-series are as stable as P1 then I think we have a market winner. Sure we have a wish list, but if the average user is happy with P1, then the average user is going to love G series (provided there isn't a step backwards in reliability).
Most people who use a phone for more than just calls and text know that restarts tend to be par for the course. I'm not making excuses, just stating a fact. (Mind you I have no such problems with my non-smartphone K800 which I use for numerous smartphone-like purposes every day, but that's another story). It's not only SE smartphones that have been blighted by the curse of bad memory management. Yes yes we can get into the argument about how bad it all was with P990, but I don't think there is any reason to think G series will be a repeat of that fiasco.
AS I said I am quietly "confident" G series will be a success 
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Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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On 2008-04-16 00:53:36, max_wedge wrote:
(Mind you I have no such problems with my non-smartphone K800 which I use for numerous smartphone-like purposes every day, but that's another story).
Hah.
But I assure you - if nothing's fixed on the g- series function- wise compared to the p1, it's going to be problematic. It may not hang all the time, like the n95 - but you're missing things that everyone used to an ordinary phone will notice. Also, some screens are intelligible for people who don't know what the settings do already.
And frankly, it's everywhere on the firmware - selections disappearing, lists invalidated at random - the sort on the contacts lagging the phone like mad, the shortcut- call disappearing after a sync, even if you don't change the contacts. The stupid inability to move more than one mail at a time, or the impossible solution with requiring you to download a mail before being allowed to move it to oh, say, the SPAM folder? Neat one, eh? I mean, how is it possible they couldn't schedule these functions, and then check for existence of such and such message before completing the request - I've programmed something like that in java, and it's not fricking magic. It's straight forward, standard, standard stuff.
So I don't think SE is going to move in on the business- market for real until these things are fixed. You may hope that it's "improved" and that the g- series hooks a couple of new customers. Which I'm sure it will. But the fact remains that it's not on par with the earlier jp- phones in several areas - notably on the message- facility. And whatever you say - people are going to notice that. (And even go back to their k850 for everyday use, hm? While waiting for the "next firmware".. lol)
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
kjao
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 200
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6 G-series phones in 2008???
my little rant about SE's rate of releasing new phones is that they always (ALWAYS) tend to desert improving the bugs of phones already released JUST BECAUSE there is a better model about to be released. if the G700/900 is released with heaps of bugs...SE will hear the complaints of the end users and perhaps implement it in the next-to-be released G-series, conveniently ignoring those stuck with a faulty phone, making us convenient beta testers.
the best SE phone i've used is the k750...not because SE did a great job, but the hackers did a BEAUTIFUL job of improving camera drivers, etc of the phone. but now that SE wants to "tighten" on security. all phones feel pretty rough after a week or so of usage.  |
Nipsen
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Pretty much how I feel as well. ..Well, except when you're a beta- tester, you usually have some sort of influence on the project. And get a voucher on the final product. We don't.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
pavlov's_dog
Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 163
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people from the g900 vs u900 vs n82 thread have been complaining about the g900 pics from the m-r review. sure the pics obviously suck at first glance but on second thought, the hardware isn't really very substandard and it's nothing a few tweaking on the camera firmware wouldn't solve.
here are some of the sample pics with higher contrast and saturation levels:
[ This Message was edited by: pavlov's_dog on 2008-04-16 04:21 ] |
Keiki
Joined: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 160
From: Valhalla
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-16 04:04:13, kjao wrote:
6 G-series phones in 2008???
my little rant about SE's rate of releasing new phones is that they always (ALWAYS) tend to desert improving the bugs of phones already released JUST BECAUSE there is a better model about to be released. if the G700/900 is released with heaps of bugs...SE will hear the complaints of the end users and perhaps implement it in the next-to-be released G-series, conveniently ignoring those stuck with a faulty phone, making us convenient beta testers.
the best SE phone i've used is the k750...not because SE did a great job, but the hackers did a BEAUTIFUL job of improving camera drivers, etc of the phone. but now that SE wants to "tighten" on security. all phones feel pretty rough after a week or so of usage.
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Dont jump into conclusion yet mate.
A few peopke had tested g series stated that The ui is very stable and behave diffrently with p990 (still prototype though).
I have positive feeling that  had found the source of bug and sort it out
Well if you feel pessimistic with G series just wait for another month (when g series hit the market) and see what are the opinion of G series user.
Before that, its not good for us to make a bad speculation righty? |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2008-04-16 01:49:37, Nipsen wrote:
On 2008-04-16 00:53:36, max_wedge wrote:
(Mind you I have no such problems with my non-smartphone K800 which I use for numerous smartphone-like purposes every day, but that's another story).
Hah.
With j2me apps now maturing there are many things that 2 years ago were smartphone territory only that I can now do on my K800 with ease. Paired with J2me multi-tasking and 3G conneciton, I actually don't miss a smartphone as much as I thought I would. I have a HP WM for those occasions where the K800 just can't cut the mustard.
I miss touchscreen, but hey the biggest smartphone segment, Nokia s60, is no better in that regard.
But I assure you - if nothing's fixed on the g- series function- wise compared to the p1, it's going to be problematic. It may not hang all the time, like the n95 - but you're missing things that everyone used to an ordinary phone will notice. Also, some screens are intelligible for people who don't know what the settings do already.
And frankly, it's everywhere on the firmware - selections disappearing, lists invalidated at random - the sort on the contacts lagging the phone like mad, the shortcut- call disappearing after a sync, even if you don't change the contacts. The stupid inability to move more than one mail at a time, or the impossible solution with requiring you to download a mail before being allowed to move it to oh, say, the SPAM folder? Neat one, eh? I mean, how is it possible they couldn't schedule these functions, and then check for existence of such and such message before completing the request - I've programmed something like that in java, and it's not fricking magic. It's straight forward, standard, standard stuff.
So I don't think SE is going to move in on the business- market for real until these things are fixed. You may hope that it's "improved" and that the g- series hooks a couple of new customers. Which I'm sure it will. But the fact remains that it's not on par with the earlier jp- phones in several areas - notably on the message- facility. And whatever you say - people are going to notice that. (And even go back to their k850 for everyday use, hm? While waiting for the "next firmware".. lol)
I think you are right, but I also don't see G series as a business phone. I see it more as a competitor for Nokia N8x series (though HSDPA is a BIG shortcoming - hopefully the next 4 g series announcement will inlcude this)
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xell
Joined: Jan 15, 2006
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Taking a look at the User Guide of the G700 Maximys linked on SEMCblog, they used a new menu icon with 9 instead of 4 dots:
 
Also, this FCC pic strongly reminds me of the K700 cover. 
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kjao
Joined: Apr 24, 2007
Posts: 200
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can any of the lucky ones who have tested these phones tell me if they have included a "touchscreen lock" during active calls? thanks. |
Creid
Joined: May 13, 2007
Posts: 160
From: UK
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dont know.
but i did notice a touchscreen lock (free program) on my-symbian tooday | |
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Posted: 2008-04-15 17:46
