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Nokia N82 or P1? For use for camera, music, ROM gaming, Internet, in USA |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@nipsen
my call log shows I've talked a little over two hours, I've sent some ten sms, and surfed the web on wlan for around two hours, played skyforce a couple of times, and tested SamnMax. Also watched an episode of a series I'd recorded (25mins), and listened to music while I was walking around on saturday (around 4hours). Also, used the calendar a bit, some alarms, like I do usually, and GDesk and so on. .. So that's four and a half days on what n95 owners call "normal" use.
Even if the n95 I tested a couple of months ago had the same kind of battery life? I.e, it had to be recharged every day on "normal" use?
If above usage is what you meant by "normal" ... yeah N95 will last a day. To most people this kind of usage is consider "heavy". You are very sly in using misleading terms to slate the N95 battery life.  Then you have the audacity to make a TOTAL B.S CRAP statement that P1i can last 4.5 days with this "normal" use. I bet with this "normal" use the P1i can barely last 1.5 days.
And, you know, I have a hard time being very impressed with a developer that takes a year to understand that putting every program- function in the feature pack into one huge library - when they know resources is a problem.
Now you portray yourself as an expert and criticise something you have ZILTCH knowledge (i.e. demand paging). What does "huge library" has anything to do with demand paging? For all we know demand page may be based on modular object definition code which is stored in the "huge library" on disk . Only when the object is used/required then the relevant object code is read from this "huge library" into RAM and only relevant resources used by the object is created.
So please stop spitting B.S. information out like it is expert information. 
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-07 04:31 ] | |
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jortiz1200
Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 82
PM |
@oakalyddude-
yeah,i think with your list of needs youll enjoy the tytanll,and seeing you travel in u.s and abroad the triband 3g is a nice thing to have
i was in the same boat. it was between tytnll and p1i,or n95 8gig. i work in construction and listen to music 8-12hrs. a day so having an fm radio/answercalls was a big factor for me.also i like the sharper screens of se and nokia,then narrowed it down to not being able to get on without handwriting and sketching. ohwell ill just have to miss out on demand paging for now.boohoo  . good luck with the tytnll it is very nice.
p1i
m600i> 4gig.m2
n800> 2x 8gig. sdhc |
Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Noway
PM, WWW
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On 2007-12-07 05:24:15, mib1800 wrote:
If above usage is what you meant by "normal" ... yeah N95 will last a day. To most people this kind of usage is consider "heavy". You are very sly in using misleading terms to slate the N95 battery life. Then you have the audacity to make a TOTAL B.S CRAP statement that P1i can last 4.5 days with this "normal" use. I bet with this "normal" use the P1i can barely last 1.5 days.
I would be "audacious" if I lied about something that anyone could test, yes. Pretty stupid as well, I guess, but..
See, the n95 I tested ran out of battery some time in the first evening on the use I sketched out. And that suprised me, since I'd heard so unbelievably much good about it. Not to mention reviews that hailed it as the most unbelievably glorious mobile unit of all time. What suprised me even more was that if I stretched that use over several days (like I imagined people usually do), the phone lasted even less, because of the drain in standby. And I just couldn't get past the second day, even on light use.
Which of course explains how n- series users tend to rebel when it turns out they can't turn off their phones and still have the alarms trigger, and so on.
In any case - how much will you bet I'm lying about the battery- use on the p1? Test it. I use the handsfree on the calls (and while playing games), I make sure to get the screen to dim during the calls, disable gprs autoconnect, and turn the backlight down to 50%. I also have steady network coverage on full bars. And usually never close the programs I use, to avoid loading them over and over.
But until then - it only shows that, as I said, the p1 lasts a fair bit longer than the n95 on similar use the first day, and then survives longer after that because of the lower standby drain.
(...I guess what was wrong was to count the six hours from morning to midday as 0.5 days - so it should have been 4.25 days(it had about 5% left), not four and a half days.. but still. )
And you know - that's not really that much either, now is it? It basically means that the phone lasts you about a day if you use it heavily. And I just don't understand why people have to insist that this is borderline magical, and somehow cannot (and should not, apparently) be improved.
Now you portray yourself as an expert and criticise something you have ZILTCH knowledge (i.e. demand paging). What does "huge library" has anything to do with demand paging? For all we know demand page may be based on modular object definition code which is stored in the "huge library" on disk .
*raises eyebrow*
Only when the object is used/required then the relevant object code is read from this "huge library" into RAM and only relevant resources used by the object is created.
Ye-es. That is sort of how demand paging works. Meaning that if there were no big collections of resources, or libraries, that forced the phone to load unusable code, there would be little benefit from it.
And, there are few data- collections like that so far on phones with limited storage. Which makes sense, yes? Because it has limited storage?
Also, just to be clear - the fundamental idea behind the demand paging on mobile units is not the same as on a desktop system, where you typically have a large paging file with all kinds of resources lying around. Which might be reused very effectively because of demand paging techniques. I.e, instead of extracting the objects and references from disk all the time, the computer could just fetch the already extracted resources it needs (usually repeatedly) from the virtual ram, and so save loads of operations, as well as time on each operation. This is, obviously, extremely useful.
But that scenario doesn't exist on a mobile device. So again, the reasoning for implementing demand paging on a mobile unit at the moment (until we get virtual ram) is more or less only to allow bigger code- depositories to be used without crippling the battery life completely. But effective use of it lies some time into the future, when we have bigger processors and better batteries, as well as much greater internal storage.
Until then it primarily becomes a way to excuse badly written code. Because at this point we still need to specially write code for the mobile unit anyway - there's just no option to insert a big c++ library with loads of useful functions that you only used a couple of, and then distribute a sis- file that's fifty times as big as it has to be, and "let the OS take care of it". That's just bad - unnecessarily bad - code.
So please stop spitting B.S. information out like it is expert information.
Then check it. Come up with a counter- argument. Illuminate weaknesses with my version. Ask questions. Try not to argue from a position of ignorance, as if that somehow is useful for anything else than obstinately learning nothing. Figure things out.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@nipsen
In any case - how much will you bet I'm lying about the battery- use on the p1? Test it.
I think I'll call your bluff. You are definitely lying.
http://my-symbian.com/uiq3/review_p1i.php
I can't comment on battery life at the moment as the prototype unit I tested came with BST-33 battery (950 mAh). Retail units will ship bigger battery (1120 mAh) providing much longer standby and talk times. But even with the BST-33 battery, the unit provides 2 days of average use and still one full day with heavy use, including several hours of music playback, an hour or so of voice calls, web browsing, checking email and using the organizer.
http://www.mobile-review.com/review/sonyericsson-p1-en.shtml#5
In conditions of Moscow networks, the handset lasted for about 2 days, at one hour of calls, up to 6 hours of music playback, 2 hours of radio, rare file transfers over Bluetooth and up to 20 minutes of mail checks, web browsing.
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39030107,49292318,00.htm
Another issue that affects usability is the battery life. It’s acceptable when you just use the P1i as a phone, but once you start to really make use of the extra features, such as Wi-Fi and 3G data download, the battery starts to drain faster than on many of its rivals….
In all these reviews, all of them never have battery life even come close to what you stated.
Meaning that if there were no big collections of resources, or libraries, that forced the phone to load unusable code, there would be little benefit from it.
What r u talking about? Why are bringing things like libraries etc and befuddles the whole thing?. Let's cut the technical jargon and look at the situation. N95 v2 firmware frees up an extra 10Mb RAM on boot with demand paging. And the RAM requirement of core apps like web browsers/gallery/cam/mp3 is also reduced by 30-50%. This is real improvement. Even N95-8G or P1 with more RAM will also see benefit either in one or 2 ways:- you can run more concurrent apps or more complex apps with bigger footprint can be run.
What you say about bloated libraries will negate the effect of demand paging is just inaccurate as the tangible improvement (like free RAM etc) is there for you to see. Another thing is you have no idea how code segments in the libraries are organised. You are assuming that when a page fault occured, the library (similar to DLL in windows) where the page is located will be loaded in its entirety. This may not be so.
One more thing is how do you know there are bloated libraries in Symbian? |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
PM |
@Nipsen
As i have said before you really are just so funny because i wish i had a pound for every post from UIQ3 users about this perceived problem you seem to think every N series user has and is constantly complaining about especially as it is no different in UIQ3.
"Which of course explains how n- series users tend to rebel when it turns out they can't turn off their phones and still have the alarms trigger, and so on."
Especially as at this very moment there is a thread on this very Forum here discussing just this.
Alarm not working when P1 is switched off
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=160207
Please PM one of your UIQ3 guru's and ask them what they think of Demand Paging? and if it would be of benefit to UIQ3 users as it may be the only way you realise you are wrong and begin to understand just how foolish you are making yourself appear not just once but repeatedly.
Ask Ares or Makbil or Dominstry or AquaLung or even Mizzle but for the sanity of us all ask someone that knows and understands as it is just so obvious that you just don't ,can't or want to.
Marc
_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-07 16:18 ] |
aqualung
Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 175
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* ! *
I'm following this thread with interest, despite the acrimonious edge it's taken.
I'd like to point out that I am in no way a UIQ 3 expert or guru, just an interested user who's keen to optimise my experience on the UIQ 3 smartphone platform.
The only expertise I have is, like many others here, is in wringing every last erg out of a Pseries device (and that includes paring a P990 down to the bone for maximal free RAM).
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Nipsen
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Noway
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On 2007-12-08 09:35:44, aqualung wrote:
(...)
The only expertise I have is, like many others here, is in wringing every last erg out of a Pseries device (and that includes paring a P990 down to the bone for maximal free RAM).
Yeah, that's true, it might help with that. I wonder if there are any numbers on just how much more could be made available on the p990, though.. On a "ordinary" set of apps, and so on.
The p1 Whiki - report your bugs, and add feature requests here. "Brothers and Sisters, believe! Believe in the salvation of Demand Paging, 'eah!" |
okalyddude
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 17
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Well after looking around quite a bit (and not being able to easily find the phones i want in istanbul - might have to have a friend bring me one after xmas break...)
I still am undecided, but actually gearing towards the n82 with a bluetooth keyboard. One reason is that symbian does have many of the apps i wanted windows mobile for over uiq3 (more emulators, bittorrent, still no skype but i can live with fring i suppose)
the better camera doesnt hurt of course, and im assuming microsd should support up to 32 gig on both?
the tv output is a big help - i can simply download films via bit torrent on wifi and watch on tv- great for podcasts too
a few qs
does the n82 have integrated audio buttons? which are they? might not be a big deal- i will get bluetooth headphones anyway
how does the internet browsing work without a touchscreen?_ pretty decent? ive heard people say they like the browser a lot so ill assume that it also works pretty well for cruising the net..
no keyboard is a downer- but not too bad considering most times i will use it will be at home - this is my laptop replacement after all. so for at home chatting and internet i will have a keyboard. for on the go sms and such i will just have to suffer
how about the keys? how are they for gaming? people mention the loads of games coming for it, and a decent amount of emulated games for s60.. but the keys are kind of a downside to this phone... might just have to try one out and see how i feel about playing snes games on it and such.. this is also my gameboy advance replacement 
still deciding between the tytn ii and n82.. but as symbian has many of the reasons i wanted WM and i can use tv out to avoid watching on such a small screen, im going in favor of the n82 at the moment..
one more q - is there any way at all to use an external hard drive on these? i heard tell of a wifi hard drive so i will look into that.. guess i could always download BT via wifi and transfer to a wifi hard drive when im done watching etc and store extra music while waiting for the 32 gig chips to comes out.. i guess worst case scenario i use a regular external hard drive and go to a computer at work or internet cafe or whatever when i need to clear space and swap music.. still debating the two but tv out is a pretty big help when i dont have a laptop | |
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Posted: 2007-12-07 05:24
