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Health Impact of Bluespoon vs HBH-20 |
wallet
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
Posts: 12
From: York, UK
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I have used the Ericsson HBH-10 and HBH-15 Bluetooth headsets with both the T20s (with adaptor) and T39m. These look the same, and are used the same - a hook over the ear. They are very comfortable and i use them whilst driving, running and cycling even!
Here are some links to show you them:
HBH-10
http://www.sonyericssonmobile.com/au/spg.jsp?template=PS1&B=ie&PID=9564&LM=PSM_V
HBH-15
http://www.sonyericssonmobile.com/uk/spg.jsp?template=PS1&B=ie&PID=9870&LM=PSM_V
HBH-20
http://www.sonyericssonmobile.com/uk/spg.jsp?template=PS1&B=ie&PID=9905&LM=PSM_V
The sound quality is very good with both.
My only complaint is that I get a headache after about 10 minutes of an actual phonecall (but not if waiting for a call) and I get sharp headaches after 20 minutes. This is accompanied by a toothache-like sensation or tingling teeth! However, the headaches are not a strong as the feelings I get with using a mobile phone directly. And i think that it is likely that the central nervous system and our health will be affected with prolonged exposure.
And please - I am not wanting to have all the posts repeated about the research that has already been covered in the other Topic on the new Bluespoon headset. Of course, the bluespoon will have been tested to meet standards, but there is no evidence to prove these standards are safe.
I am interested in hearing about actual experiences (not research) from people who use wired/wireless hands free kits, and bluetooth for longer than 20 minutes at a time, very frequently. I clock up over 3000 minutes a month every month.
Bluetooth headsets provide good sound quality, and not the buzz that people report hearing when i call them on wired hands free kits. Maybe you know of some hands-free kits that don't produce such a buzzing sound?
And we all know about the *industry* research that claims that there is no conclusive research to prove that mobile phones are harmful - but equally the research does not prove that they are safe either - most of the research is funded by the industry and is not independent....but this disregards the fact that many people who use mobile phones can "feel" the effects and often report headaches on that side of the head with prolonged use.
Recent research has uncovered crucial areas that haven't been studied before such as
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1805000/1805367.stm
The researchers themselves admit they do not know exactly what the risks are of sustained exposure to mobile phone electromagnetic radiation. To quote from another article, "Mobile phone manufacturers should have funded research into that question before they put them on the market - if they were pharmaceutical products they would have to have been pre-tested." We need independent research into prolonged use!
Quoted from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_314000/314363.stm
It is such a serious issue that has prompted the UK Government to spend £7,400,000 on a research project.
And yes, we all have heard the mobile phone companies shouting loud about that piece of research that might suggest that handsfree kits with wires might be more harmful, and that bluetooth is a lower power - BUT I am talking from experience of using bluetooth day after day.
I work in the Internet industry and support alot of new technology, but we also have to be critical of new ideas that may have serious health implications and adopt a precautionary principle with research and marketing/press based on this research.
With this in mind, and having heard that the brand new HBH-20 is *really good* sound quality and range, I am now considering purchasing the Ericsson HBH-20 which has a receiving/tranmitting bluetooth base unit located away from your head (brain). The sound is transmitted by a wire to an earpiece and dangling microphone.
Now moving onto the newcomer - the Bluespoon - this headset is very different from the Ericsson Bluetooth products mentioned above. Having seen the pictures of the Bluespoon - this device is directly in the ear channel - i would be concerned about the health implications of this bluespoon device - it will be transmitting bluetooth waves (the **same frequency as your microwave oven**!) right in your head - much closer to your brain, nerves and tissue than the ericsson ones.
I would prefer a device that is located away from the head (in a shirt pocket maybe) & wireless from the mobile phone.
This is why I will not be buying the Bluespoon. Those who have been waiting for it have been waiting longer than was originally suggested as a release date. There will always be problems and often delays with new technology when it is first released, and this goes for new mobiles too.
So I will be buying the Ericsson HBH-20, which friends tell me has much better range and sound quality than other available bluetooth headsets and is only the size of a 50 pence piece.
[ This Message was edited by: wallet on 2002-02-11 14:13 ] | |
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adamrj
Joined: Jan 15, 2002
Posts: 155
From: NW London
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Hmm,
A few things - interesting you mentioning getting a headache. Sounds improbable, but I had a prototype R520 for a bit, and started getting splitting headaches. I never usually get them, so the only thing I can reasonably put them down to was this phone.
Handsfrees - ones made by the phone manufacturer should work without a buzz. Cheap copies are absolutely useless.
No one's answered this yet, but I still wonder why Bluetooth signals should be more dangerous than the actual phone's signals. Surely they're less powerful as they travel a much shorter distance.
Same frequency as a microwave... maybe, but so what. Have you had any success cooking your curry with a T68? 
Finally, some researchers came up with the idea that a corded handsfree is more dangerous than just the phone as it acts as an aerial with your head at the top!
Adam |
wallet
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
Posts: 12
From: York, UK
PM |
[quote]
On 2002-02-11 14:55, adamrj wrote:
Hmm,
[I had a prototype R520 for a bit, and started getting splitting headaches. I never usually get them, so the only thing I can reasonably put them down to was this phone]
Well, it would be the radiation from the phone, which is common to most mobile phones (not just the R520) and the strength varies from phone to phone. The headaches you got that were noticible with this phone might suggests that there are side effects that are more noticable with certain phones. Helath implications might be present with other phones that you do not feel, but exist.
[No one's answered this yet, but I still wonder why Bluetooth signals should be more dangerous than the actual phone's signals. Surely they're less powerful as they travel a much shorter distance.]
My point is that in theory, that might be so, but in experience there are headaches that i am experiencing using bluetooth. I mention the Bluespoon because it is positioned so much closer to the brain, nerves and tissue.
[Same frequency as a microwave... maybe, but so what. Have you had any success cooking your curry with a T68? ]
No, my curries are hot enough already! It is not just the cooking/heating/warmth aspects of microwaves, but other health aspects of using mobiles such as how electromagnetic radiation from mobile or Bluetooth can affect the Central Nervous System.
[Finally, some researchers came up with the idea that a corded handsfree is more dangerous than just the phone as it acts as an aerial with your head at the top!]
Yeah, that research has been discussed in the other Bluespoon forum. I suppose that the bluetooth devices might also use our heads as a magnified aerial.
In this forum, instead of research posts (and arguments), I would be interested in hearing from more people who have also experienced similar headaches or side effects, and perhaps solutions they found.
Thanks for your post Adam.
[ This Message was edited by: wallet on 2002-02-11 15:21 ] |
Npalamidis
Joined: Dec 24, 2001
Posts: 77
From: Venezuela
PM |
This info is taked from bluetooth.com
Unlike many other wireless standards, the Bluetooth wireless specification includes both link layer and application layer definitions for product developers which supports data, voice and content-centric applications. Radios that comply with the Bluetooth wireless specification operate in the unlicensed, 2.4 GHz radio spectrum ensuring communication compatibility worldwide. These radios use a spread spectrum, frequency hopping, full-duplex signal at up to 1600 hops/sec.
Almost all Digital Wireless Headsets in the market made by Siemens, Panasonic, Sony, GE, Vtech use the same Radio Wave 2.4 GHz.
So I don´t think is something about the Radio Frecuency.
if I´m wrong please let me know!?  
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wallet
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
Posts: 12
From: York, UK
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reading that, I'm now getting a headache and I'm nowhere near a phone or bluetooth headset.
thanks, Npalamidis, for summary of one aspect of how the bluetooth mobile phones operate technically, and suggests that the mobile phones operate on similar frequencies to each other. I guess you mean that the headaches are not specific to one mobile phone, but could potentially be triggered by any mobile phone/bluetooth. However, I don't want this to become a technical/research topic, as it might deter people from contributing if they don't understand spread spectrums, frequency hopping, etc.
I would be interested in hearing from other users, like Adam, who have also experienced headaches with frequent or prolonged use of mobile phones and/or bluetooth headsets. Also, any solutions they found that allowed them to continue using mobile phones that prevented the headaches and sharp pains.
Mark
[ This Message was edited by: wallet on 2002-02-11 16:33 ] |
T39andcounting
Joined: Jan 02, 2002
Posts: 50
PM |
I have got headaches in the past from using phones, both mobile and landlines. This is usually due to bad quality (in my opinion) than radiation, etc. If you are concentrating on listening to a bad line for 20 minutes, whatever type of phone.
With the headset debate, one thing I heard was that, as well as acting as an aeriel for the phone, the effect could be compounded by walking around with it perminantly plugged into your ear. (would you walk around with the phone tapped to your head?). The same could probebly be said for bluetooth - lower radiation values, but far larger lenth of time close to your head if you leave it there when your not talking! |
wallet
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
Posts: 12
From: York, UK
PM |
In response to T39andcounting,
I should explain that I do not normally get migraines, or even headaches, and am fit and healthy. My hearing is fine.
The reason that I am concerned about this is the intensity of the pains that I experience can be very sharp sometimes, especially when a phone is right next to my head. After using a bluetooth headset (with the mobile at a distance) for half an hour, the sensation is not as sharp, but duller and hangs around for a while after using the headset.
I recently had a very sharp pain when I placed the T20s with the attached bluetooth adaptor dba-10 (it was on by mistake) next to my head to make a call. The pain came immediately instead of after 10-10 minutes and left me with a throbbing sensation afterwards. However, I do not normally use the T20 like this, and this was not the first time I had experienced sharp pains like that. It's just the most recent example. I do not use the dba-10 adaptor (obviously) on the T39 and still get similar headaches with the bluetooth headsets.
I do not get headaches using a landline, which in my area is no different in signal quality than the T39 or T20 mobiles using the bluetooth. So it is not because of any poor quality signal on the mobile or bluetooth.
I do not leave the bluetooth adaptor next to my head when not using it, and I do not have the bluetooth "on" on the phone all the time (i use automatic to conserve the battery).
T39andcounting, your headaches may be due to poor reception quality during long conversations, but that is not my experience.
I also appreciate your thoughtful input.
Mark |
jh67
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: denmark
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Its a very interesting topic,..and I guess something that will be discussed for a long time.
Maybe I'm not the right person to give an opinion on this, but I'll do it anyway
As You say yourself, the specifications/standards are set by the bluetooth consortium (interest group), and nextlink is a member here too, just as Nokia, Ericsson and a lot of others.
And of course, we follow these standards, and we've got a lot of experience from doing ordinary headsets,..that sits in the ear (Invisio models).
The Bluespoon does not sit much closer to the ear, than e.g. HBH-10,15.
HBH-20 sits "in" the ear, and is actually closer to the ear, than the Bluespoon.
I've read a lot of articles as well on this subject, some say that ordinary headsets are more dangerous than the phone, some say the opposite, and it keeps going on and on,...and we could include the microwave-ovens as well,..thats been discussed a lot too.
I hope too, that someone one day, will come up with results, that we can actually trust.
Untill then, we will have to work with, what we've got,..and keep on conducting tests, to get some final proof.
Personally I use the Ericsson HBH-10. I dont get headaches/pains in any way,..at least not ones I've noticed. And I do use it quite a lot.
I guess the only thing that can give me headaches,..is when sitting for a long time, in front of a computer 
Or when someone calls me, using an ordinary headset,..I sometimes get this very high "BIIIP" (pitch),...but then again I know that ordinary headsets do this sometimes.
But yes, I do know that some people get headaches and similar things, from e.g. headsets, mobile-phones, ordinary phones and especially computers.
I guess science one day will find out, what causes different things to happen,.. what "trigger" these thing and so on.
Jan
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jh67
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: denmark
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QUOTE WALLET :
Those who have been waiting for it have been waiting longer than was originally suggested as a release date. There will always be problems and often delays with new technology when it is first released, and this goes for new mobiles too.
QUOTE END.
--------------------------------
Wallet :
I know you dont want to buy the Bluespoon for different reasons,.I respect that, but I have to correct You on some things :
People havent waited longer. The release date for the first samples are Q1, and we're still in Q1.
Articles e.g. websites might have written some release-dates, but we never gave any specific release-date/month.
And no,..we dont have problems with the technology.
And progress hasnt been slowed in any way.
The problems that could be, when releasing a new product, could be many things,..e.g. delievery of different materials on time (we use some special parts because of size), production, marketing,... there're a lot of aspects in this, a lot of things to take into concideration.
And yes, things could go wrong,..but we dont count on it, and we dont think about it everyday
Jan
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wallet
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
Posts: 12
From: York, UK
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[quote]
On 2002-02-11 22:10, jh67 wrote:
QUOTE WALLET :
Those who have been waiting for it have been waiting longer than was originally suggested as a release date.
QUOTE END
Yeah, sorry Jan didn't mean to imply that YOU had been suggesting specific release dates - but the press and magazines certainly have. I have seen several suggested release dates.
QUOTE WALLET :
There will always be problems and often delays with new technology when it is first released, and this goes for new mobiles too.
QUOTE END.
Well, I never buy a mobile phone the day it is released for the same reason - i was talking about wireless technology in general.
Thanks for respecting my reasons for my decision not to buy the Bluespoon, Jan. This bluetooth problem is quite disappointing because I really like Swedish and Danish culture, manufacturing quality and design.
Mark / Wallet |
jh67
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: denmark
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Hi Mark
Yeah, we all know the press and magazines.
But again they dont always have the whole story,...and they like to give away prices and releases...it looks good
E.g. magazines work this way,..we all know that,..they do it for a living.
We (Nextlink) never did speak about a specific date or price,..we only gave some indications.
I know what You meant, when you said that all new products can be delayed and problems might occure. You're right
All I meant was to say, that we untill now, dont have any sort of problems.
We hope to deliever a good product,..which doesnt have "child-diseases",...and of course we hope to deliever on time !
Thats always the hard part,...because this depends a lot on the people we work with as well.
Of course I respect You for not wanting to buy it. We're all critical about stuff,..personally I woulnt want a microwave-oven, hehe,...and I dont have one.
I like to investigate things too, before throwing myself into it,...might be a bit "old-school",..ok I'm 34. But I like to know, what I'm getting into/buying, before doing it.
I quite like the scandinavian designs too, the only real problem, is prices. It always turns out very expensive,..even in the country its produced
See Ya
Jan
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wallet
Joined: Feb 10, 2002
Posts: 12
From: York, UK
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thanks Jan, and I know reading your posts that you always are very open about no release date. That is good.
Any more mobile phone and/or bluetooth users experiencing similar headaches etc? |
doogie
Joined: Feb 12, 2002
Posts: 1
From: Glasgow, UK
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I've used GSM mobiles for about six years, and for at least the last three to four years, I have experienced mobile related headaches of varying intensities. They generally start a few minutes into a call on the side where the mobile is, and creep across my head the longer the call is. I normally change ears, which means the headache then starts on the other side too....!
I have been very tempted to get a T39 to use with my iPAQ, and am very interested in the bluetooth receiver with attached earpiece/microphone, but Expansys seem to only list that accessory as compatible with the T68 and not the T39.... do you know if this is the case?
Anyway, I think that should have been in several threads.....
I've tried many phones over the years, and have so far found the best to be the Motorola Kramer based phones like the V3690 and V50. I personally put this down to the air space between the aerial and the screen, and the radiation blocking properties of the screen.... I have also seen that the SAR level on these phones are much lower than on other handsets.
The worst phones I remember using for a while were Ericsson 768 and Nokia 3210.
I have been very tempted to invest in a bluetooth enabled phone/headset, but I've been apprehensive due to the potentials of increased headaches meaning I've wasted a few hundred pounds, and potential interference with my 2.4GHz video senders. |
jh67
Joined: Nov 30, 2001
Posts: > 500
From: denmark
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Doogie > I work for the company Nextlink, who makes the Bluespoon,..actually I designed it
It will work on T-28 with adapter, T-39, T-68, R 520 and Nokia 6310.
And of course the other bluetooth-phones that are coming.
This you can read about here :
http://www.nextlink.to
Jan
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decoy7
Joined: Feb 06, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: NW London
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my first mobile was a Motorola 8500(original pre GSM Brick), best phone ever made.
it got used regular and i made more than your average users number of calls on it as i worked in the phone industry.
never had a single issue with headaches, the phone was big enough to hold with 2 hands and the aerial was probaly longer than a t68.
my last analog phone was an ericsson EH337...maybe add 1/3 to the height of the t68 and it was a fair bit thicker.
this phone for me launched ericsson in the UK market and set a standard like the NEC P3 & Motorola StarTac before it.
this was when the headaches started...my airtime use when i got the EH337 went up a little...headaches started to be more frequent and i put it down to the size of the phone being condensed with not enough materials sheilding the components from your head.
this was also the quickest phone to overheat. recently i had a faulty t28 that overheat in seconds when i put the battery on.
the metal base plate would burn your finger to touch...very dangerous.
todays GSM phones are no different, some will fry your head after prolonged use, there's also varying factors such as good reception & battery power, these can cause headaches to occur.
i haven't studied the effects a great deal just observed frommy own experience, it also counts that i clock up hours worth of airtime in the thousands each month and have done for roughly 6 years now on GSM.
at work i've worn a headset for fixed line phones for more that 10 hours a day and never experienced any similiar effects like with the mobile.
...end of trainspotting rant | |
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Posted: 2002-02-11 00:37
