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iPhone unlocking will 02. Apple and CPW have to? |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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Hi all,
Having realised that the UK bound iPhones will be coming with newer firmware that at this time no one is yet sure if the previous methods will work for unlocking or hacking or not.
I have realised some thing as you all know in the UK and EU the Networks have to sell you an unlock code at a reasonable price they don't have the right to say no and this is not a voluntary option it is EU law.
So my question is if i buy a iPhone then activate it via iTunes and then within 14 days cancel the contract. I have bought and paid for my phone it was not free with a contract or even subsidised. What happens when i then call up 02 and request an unlock code? as they can not say no they have to sell it to me.
Any one have any thoughts on this as in IMO 02 have just copied the US sales model and not really thought this one through properly IMO. What do any of you think have i found a great big gaping loophole that will leave 02 vulnerable?
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-20 10:18 ] |
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whentheleveebreaks
Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 390
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i bet they find a loophole that they dont have to give it to you. i asked this the other day on an apple forum but no-one replied
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masseur
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Sydney, London
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I've been researching this since I saw you mention it in the other thread but I can't find a single reference that says EU phones companies MUST provide an unlock code (although I have heard this myself). Do you have any links for this please, just so I can read full wording?
I did find various info that most do provide unlock codes at varying different times from immediately (in the case of Orange) to 90 days (in the case of t-mobile) and in some cases at the end of commitment only.
I also found that in Belgium the law there disallows any phones being locked, opening up the question of whether iphone will be sold there at all.
In your specific question I expect the contract for the iPhone will include some clause to either require you to return the equipment if you cancel the contract OR which provide themselves a way of opting out of the unlock provision since you don't want their service and therefore must have bought the device for music purposes only (since O2 have exclusivity).
I fully expect the contract to be different from normal for iPhone on O2
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[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2007-09-20 10:54 ] |
anonymuser
Joined: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: > 500
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Everything I've read on the subject states that you'll be signing up for an 18 month contract and paying £269 for the Iphone itself. Just because the phone isn't "free" doesn't mean it isn't subsidised to some extent, and still subject to the same contract obligations.
At the end of the day, it'll all be down to the fine print on the contract which none of us have yet seen (and I for one won't be signing...)
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2007-09-20 10:43 ] |
seunlock-uk
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 294
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The Telecommunications act deemed that it was illegal to change the IMEI, not unlock the phone and furthermore that it was now a legal requirement, under fair trade regulations that ALL UK carriers, with NO exception must provide on request the ability for the customer to unlock their phone.
This is indeed law, and it must be at a reasonable fee. it was deemed anti-competitive to not allow unlocking.
HOWEVER, the issue that you would have with 14-daying your contract is that you do not own the IPhone, and that when you cancelled the contract the phone would need to be returned to O2.
The phone remains the property of the network until the end of your minimum term contract, hence they can IMEI bar the handset for non payment.
The phone only becomes YOURS after the minimum term, in this case 18 months, SO you would be required to return the handset if you cancelled within 14 days, in fact you cannot cancel within 14 days without returning the handset and the store obtaining an RA code for it, and providing the original purchase receipt.
At that point you would be given a refund of the purchase price of you (Subsidised phone) and you may be required to pay for the pro rata billing for the amount of days you have had the contract.
SE
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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Just to state my opinion on this, as someone working for O2, what se-unlock has said is true. You won't be able to keep the phone. its like buying a N95 paying £50 for it, and wanting to cancel contract in 14 day term and keep the handset because you paid £50 for it? Nope don't think so, you would have to return the handset back too, if handset is not returned then the contract is not allowed to be cancelled.
It would be interesting for me to see that too, where exactly in EU law it says that a phone has to be unlocked.
[ This Message was edited by: Mr Miyagi on 2007-09-20 11:14 ] |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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Not sure if this helps but I stumbled on it on the MR site
"The customers can unlock the iPhone by their own with the iTunes software on PC or Mac computers. The activation process requires to pick up a service plan and goes through checking subscriber’s creditworthiness, then the iPhone is ready.
The new Apple product will cost £269 including VAT and be available with the £35, £45 and £55 tariff plans.
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seunlock-uk
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 294
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Don't know where it say it exactly in EU law, but the Telecommunications Act covers it in the Uk, and if you google it i am sure it comes up, as a law passed in the UK seperately to make sure that anti competition was adhered to, making it the obligation of the network to be able to, upon request provide unlock codes. However it does state that they ahve the right to charge for this service.
I have read it, just don't have time to search for it lol.
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Jools
Joined: May 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
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Just been doing some Googling and found the following:
From 2001. Annex 3 - SIM Unlocking
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/stati[....]tions/mobile/mmr0901_an1_5.htm
Oftel’s policy on SIM locking
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/stati[....]nsumer/advice/faqs/mobfaq3.htm
The last link also includes each network providers unlocking policies, but is from November 2002.
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Alexandra
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Nowhere Mobile: K800
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On 2007-09-20 12:28:23, seunlock-uk wrote:
Don't know where it say it exactly in EU law, but the Telecommunications Act covers it in the Uk, and if you google it i am sure it comes up, as a law passed in the UK seperately to make sure that anti competition was adhered to, making it the obligation of the network to be able to, upon request provide unlock codes. However it does state that they ahve the right to charge for this service.
I have read it, just don't have time to search for it lol.
It never said that it was a legal requirement to unlock it FOR FREE. However, I have nothing against it 
[addsig] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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Hi all,
If and when you buy a normal phone and get it at a subsidised price you don't get the phone until you have signed the contract and passed credit checking etc and therefore the device forms part of your contract and if you cancel your contract within 14 days would indeed have to return the device.
The iPhone however is different you are buying it outright it is not subsidised and i am am sure if you buy it from the Apple store they won't have any contracts for you to sign. This is what people have been doing in the US buying an iPhone and then either activating and cancelling the AT&T contact and no one has been asked for their iPhones back. The only difference here is that we have a right to demand an unlock code.
So IMO you have bought and paid in full for a device that is not subsided but is locked to one Network. If you then you wish to use it along with another Networks Sim card you are entitled to request an unlock code is my understanding. I don't see how 02 are going to be able to refuse to unlock it for all of the reasons mentioned above.
Obviously i am not 100% sure of this and that is why i have thrown it open to the forum to gather opinions on what we think may or may not be possible.
But possibly by just following the US sales model 02 may have made a mistake and left themselves exposed to this potential problem. As with out a doubt IMO if after activating the iPhone you then cancel the contract 02 have no right to ask you to return the iPhone and refund your purchase price as you have bought it outright. Also i can't see how they can deactivate it either once it's activated that's it. So even if it's not unlocked you should be able to use a PAYG 02 Sim card and still demand an unlock code that they will have to sell you i don't see what choice they have.
This means you can buy and activate your iPhone then within 14 days cancel your expensive contract and put a PAYG Sim in. Then request your unlock code and once unlocked use your T-Mobile or what ever Network you choose to get cheaper Data and no long contract tie in.
I just don't see what 02 can do to stop this from happening can any of you?
Marc
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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-20 13:49 ] |
Mr Miyagi
Joined: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: > 500
From: UK
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[ This Message was edited by: mr miyagi on 2007-09-20 14:28 ] |
mswallis
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 460
From: England
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You sign up for the contract through iTunes on your Mac or PC at home, not in store. You just get the phone from the store. |
Jools
Joined: May 21, 2003
Posts: > 500
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Are you sure that you'll be signing up to the contract in store?
If so, that's different to how its done in the US, and different to what it says on the O2 and CPW web-sites.
To quote:
"Activation of iPhone and connection to the O2 network is different from any other device in the mobile market. You do it completely through iTunes on your computer. Getting a few things ready now means you'll be ready for iPhone when it arrives.
You sign up for your Pay Monthly tariff and contract as part of the activation process so just make sure that you have this information to hand when you are ready to activate your iPhone.
So that seems to me that you buy the phone for £269 from an Apple, CPW or O2 store, take it home and sign-up for the contract through iTunes as part of the activation process.
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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If, however you cancel your contract, will they not also deactivate the phone in some way?
I understand exactly where Dogmann is coming from, however I think the best way to find out is to analyse the T&C's.
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Posted: 2007-09-20 11:17
