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did you notice the cam sensor size in k550 & w610 is 3.8mm! |
yaniv84
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 71
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& that in compare to thw k750,w800... that have 4.8mm sensor
no wonder the picture of the new models SUCKSSSSS...............
and to think they call to the k550 cybershot hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[ This Message was edited by: yaniv84 on 2007-02-11 21:03 ] |
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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dude, the sensor size means sfa. As technology gets better, they use smaller censors. Nevertheless, K550 have lower quality camera than K750 because they are aimed at a lower end market segment. You want the contempory equivalent to the K750 then you need to buy the K800.
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yaniv84
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 71
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On 2007-02-11 22:46:04, max_wedge wrote:
dude, the sensor size means sfa. As technology gets better, they use smaller censors. Nevertheless, K550 have lower quality camera than K750 because they are aimed at a lower end market segment. You want the contempory equivalent to the K750 then you need to buy the K800.
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the reason they put this poor sensor is because the phone is to slim
and if the technology is geting better how come the K810 have the same sensor as the K800?
and as for sony aime even if it is for lower market they can't call it a cybershot while a 2 years older phone with a same mega pixel camera size is much much better then it.
[ This Message was edited by: yaniv84 on 2007-02-11 23:54 ] |
Sir-SonyEricsson-man
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[ This Message was edited by: Sir-SonyEricsson-man on 2007-02-11 23:27 ] |
hanugro
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
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That is why getting more MP will be even worse. The noise is increasing more and more with smaller sensor size and more mp. The sensor technology noise-wise has not improved much. I am an avid dSLR user and even current 10mp APS size sensor (that is around 24x16mm) can't compare to older 6-8mp one. |
yaniv84
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
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On 2007-02-12 00:35:12, hanugro wrote:
That is why getting more MP will be even worse. The noise is increasing more and more with smaller sensor size and more mp. The sensor technology noise-wise has not improved much. I am an avid dSLR user and even current 10mp APS size sensor (that is around 24x16mm) can't compare to older 6-8mp one.
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you right:) |
DCUK7
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
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Nokia seem to be pulling off the 5mp picture quality in the N95 quite nicely. I'll bet SE's equivilent 5mp camera phone will look virtually like the the K800i but with the 5mp size.
I still say the best camera SE ever put in a phone quality-wise was the S700i. Some of the daylight pictures were beyond awesome for that time and I think most S700i owners would agree. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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On 2007-02-12 22:11:20, ~DC:UK~ wrote:
Nokia seem to be pulling off the 5mp picture quality in the N95 quite nicely. I'll bet SE's equivilent 5mp camera phone will look virtually like the the K800i but with the 5mp size.
I still say the best camera SE ever put in a phone quality-wise was the S700i. Some of the daylight pictures were beyond awesome for that time and I think most S700i owners would agree.
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you haven't done your research if you think the K800 is worse than the K750 as far as noise goes. Just look at the development in SE camera phones: The K800 probably has a same physical size sensor as K750, but the noise is much less (just compare some photos). As I said, the technology IS catching up. K700 noise was attrocious (though I loved that phone). K750/W800 was much better than the K700, and the K800/K810 (same phone) is much better than K750, and the replacement to the K800/K810 phones will have better quality again.
SE cameras are getting better everytime not worse. Not just the megapixel count but noise levels and colour reproduction as well).
Yes the S700 is VERY good, but that's because it has a ccd sensor as opposed to cmos. The S700i was a one-off concept model. It was laso the price of a smartphone where as the K750 and K800 are actually about 50% of the relative pricing of the S700 when it was released. The S700 was a much higher end phone than the K800, so they could afford a high quality CCD csensor. But K800 is mass market and simply not feasible to use that technology for a mass market phone.
S700 is also way too fat to mix it with todays phones. It had a great camera, but was an imperfect phone for the price you had to pay for it.
And to the dude who claimed "why doesn't K810 have better camera", because it is not an upgrade at all. It is no different situation to the K750/W810 pair.
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synagence
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 114
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The megapixel race is just like the CPU Mhz race .... pointless
Having a 4.8mm sensor with 3, 4 or 5 mpixels is pointless.
A lower number of better quality sensors would be 100% better. Look at the canon pro/prosumer cameras versus point and shoot ones
Canon 400d: 10.1 Mpix sensor: 22.2 x 14.8 mm CMOS
Canon G7: 10 Mpix sensor: 7.18 x 5.32 mm CCD
This is why, as others have said, and i've experienced, the S700 was a superb 1.3mp camera. Also the lens sizes and materials (small and plastic) don't let enough light into them hence noisy pixelated night shots
Wish they could make a "Cybershot" type phone at 3mp but make the lens and sensor size bigger so the light hitting it would make the pictures better.
The race to have the 1st next big thing in terms of numbers is a futile one but consumers that don't know better lap it up
My 2p
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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maybe, but regardless of hte pixel size, the K800 camera is still the best of all the cameras SE have produced so far. So on that basis I expect the next camera from SE to be better quality than the K800.
Megapixels isn't what a quality camera is all about it's true. But just because it has more megapixels doesn't mean it's worse quality than a less megapixel version, that's insane thinking.
It comes down to the commitment of a manufacturer to quality equipment. I would rather have megapixels AND quality. And if you ever try and blow up a 5MP picture to poster size, tell me again if you think 5MP is enough...
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DragonEye
Joined: Sep 26, 2002
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On 2007-02-12 22:11:20, ~DC:UK~ wrote:
Nokia seem to be pulling off the 5mp picture quality in the N95 quite nicely. I'll bet SE's equivilent 5mp camera phone will look virtually like the the K800i but with the 5mp size.
I still say the best camera SE ever put in a phone quality-wise was the S700i. Some of the daylight pictures were beyond awesome for that time and I think most S700i owners would agree.
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loll um.. ithe nokia n95 pics aren't good at all.. which goes to show you that the megapixel race is just a number and not represetning quality
Shaolinmonk on HOFO Official PHONE JUNKIE
My P1i Review
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=152437&start=0 |
yaniv84
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 71
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On 2007-02-14 15:49:56, synagence wrote:
The megapixel race is just like the CPU Mhz race .... pointless
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Thats just right but what sonyericsson done here is like to cheat her
costumers when they think they buy a cybershot cam phone which suppouse to be the top technology in the 2MP camera series & that while a 2 years phone phone from the same company is mutch better.
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hanugro
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
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All I can say is just try to take pict in a not ideal condition ie: in a shade/darker environment and all the gremlins (noise) will show. Don't just view the result on the tiny mobile LCD. Print it 4R (4x6") and compare. I think 3.2-4mp is still acceptable even in digicam class and relatively can be quite noise free unlike 5+mp. Then, try those new 8mp compact digicam and you will be suprised that even your 3.2mp k800 can give better result.
Also I can show you that my old Nikon CP950 (a 2mp third generation digicam release in 1997) can outperform pics taken by 3.2mp K800 or 5mp Pentax digicam (release in 2005).
There is a way to offset this noise is by using real flash. K800 has real flash so it may outperform a 2mp phone that only have leds. Put the real flash accessories on your 2mp K750 and don't be suprise if it can match k800 printed in 4R size paper.
From my experience 2mp is good to 5R prints and 3.2mp is good up to 8R prints. Bigger prints need bigger MP but there is a way to increase mp by using special software. It won't match dSLR picture but it may give better result than 8mp digicam with small sensor. On the other hand you can beat noise from higher mp camera by using noise ninja (noise removal software) but it will affect sharpness a bit.
I think SE may be forced to release 5mp mobile just to keep up with Nokia. But you will see that even that may not outperform k800 pics in certain condition. I just hope they put a better and more powerfull flash with that sensor.
I also think SE has competitive edge compare with the like of Nokia or Motorola. Part of them (Sony) have camera division established and recently get KM (formerly Minolta) dSLR division. That is a great know how advantage compare to Nokia/Motorola. Lens alone can't make your pics good but it is definately a good factor.
[ This Message was edited by: hanugro on 2007-02-16 09:27 ] |
hanugro
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
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On 2007-02-16 01:20:28, max_wedge wrote:
It comes down to the commitment of a manufacturer to quality equipment. I would rather have megapixels AND quality. And if you ever try and blow up a 5MP picture to poster size, tell me again if you think 5MP is enough...
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It is all about physic law. The smaller the sensor pitch (1x1 pixel), the noisier the pics will get. Off course that happen in the same technology level. I don't doubt that as time goes by we may have better noise performance from smaller sensor (like 25mp from phone that is as good as K800 pics) but as of to date even a 10mp CCD dSLR sensor (designed last year) can't beat 6mp CCD dSLR sensor (designed 3-4 years ago). And guess who make both sensors? It is Sony.
As I can say, there is a way to get bigger mp without putting that in the sensor itself. Here are two examples: http://www.benvista.com/main/[....]roducts§ion=photozoompro_1 and http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=2
Also I doubt you can be sattisfied printing a poster out of any mobile phone (be it the 10mp samsung phone). This kind of pics should be taken by appropriate tool like this http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks/P%2045.aspx and in studio condition (lots of light from AC strobe) |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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From: Australia
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On 2007-02-16 10:14:25, hanugro wrote:
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On 2007-02-16 01:20:28, max_wedge wrote:
It comes down to the commitment of a manufacturer to quality equipment. I would rather have megapixels AND quality. And if you ever try and blow up a 5MP picture to poster size, tell me again if you think 5MP is enough...
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It is all about physic law. The smaller the sensor pitch (1x1 pixel), the noisier the pics will get. Off course that happen in the same technology level. I don't doubt that as time goes by we may have better noise performance from smaller sensor (like 25mp from phone that is as good as K800 pics) but as of to date even a 10mp CCD dSLR sensor (designed last year) can't beat 6mp CCD dSLR sensor (designed 3-4 years ago). And guess who make both sensors? It is Sony.
As I can say, there is a way to get bigger mp without putting that in the sensor itself. Here are two examples: http://www.benvista.com/main/[....]ourproducts§ion=photozoompro_1 and http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=2
Also I doubt you can be sattisfied printing a poster out of any mobile phone (be it the 10mp samsung phone). This kind of pics should be taken by appropriate tool like this http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks/P%2045.aspx and in studio condition (lots of light from AC strobe)
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As may be, but the fact remains, that TO-DATE, the Sony Ericsson CMOS camera phones are each better than the previous model with regard to not only megapixels, but noise level also. There is far less noise in the K800 sensor than the K750.
If camera phones had 10MP sensors, then your point would carry, but the fact is camera phone technology will always be behind DSLR, therefore there will always be capacity for sensors to improve in both megapixels and noise levels as models are upgraded.
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Posted: 2007-02-11 22:02
