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Official K800/790 Video Thread |
DCUK7
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool, UK
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Quote:
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On 2006-10-12 14:38:53, mysh wrote:
IMPORTANT when you encode the WMV, you MUST set the 'decoding complexity' to simple or the video will not play on the phone. |
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That'll be why mine didn't work! Nice tip mysh, thanks. | |
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dcuk
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
Posts: 121
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Welcome back Mysh,
It's good to see you back!
Hi ~DC:UK~,
I have to say I'm sorry I really had no idea there was already a DCUK when I joined!
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk |
dcuk
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
Posts: 121
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Hi everyone,
Mysh has a new version of M3 available, here's the link
http://www.vapulus.com/w900i/M3-0.8.8.2-Installer.exe
Dont forget you need .net framework version 2 for M3 to work!
http://www.microsoft.com/down[....]DD-AAB15C5E04F5&displaylang=en
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk
[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-20 00:40 ] |
francoislr
Joined: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 53
From: Pretoria, South Africa
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Ah i see mysh has also laid his finger of magic on this thread. M3 is the coolest thing that could have happened to my w900i! There are other ways, but none as good and effective as it.
Going to start my battlestar galactica festival now, finishing with the second season this weekend. Got 5 episodes on my already-full-without-it 2gb memory stick pro duo.
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jj03
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Posts: > 500
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Mysh, is it possible you could add a function to change the Frames Per Second
box to allow alteration? ive changed my handset to a n73, i would appreciate this addition. |
mysh
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Posts: 176
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hey jj03, that is planned yeah. did you want higher framerates for the n73, like 30fps?
I'm working on a new profile system, and framerate will most likely be capped at 30fps, because anything more is a waste of bitrate with no visible benefits.
In fact 30fps isn't really needed either, 25fps looks as smooth. But there are some 30fps videos that would look better kept at 30fps, so no frames are cut out or blended together. |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
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Technically speaking 24fps is the lowest the human eye can perceive as fluid, without seeing the individual frames slipstreaming by the screen. Standard movies that you see in the theatre roll at 24fps. Cathode Ray TV's are best viewing movies at 30 fps because the image in interlaced. However its all relative to the SIZE of the video image or resolution really.
Why oh WHY isnt the K790/800 capable of 280x320 or even 640x320 resolution for video recording. Camera specs are capable of it; unless the video chip is restricted. Common SE pick up the pace. The W900 was capable of incredible resolution.
|AppleTV2|iPhone 12Mini 256GB|iPad Pro 256GB| Previously ...  K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded T68i). |
mysh
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Posts: 176
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hi prom1
if you want to get technical.... 
24 fps is the standard for film, as it is the lowest you can provide perceptibly -perfect- fluid motion. Film costs money, so they picked the lowest framerate they could get away with, to use less frames, less film.
As you say, TVs are interlaced. In canada i expect it's the same as the US, and you use the NTSC picture format, which is a 60Hz interlaced picture - 30 fps. So far as i'm aware, this isn't for visual reasons, but because north american AC power is provided at 60Hz. In fact due to the higher refresh rate of the picture, the image quality is lower. NTSC has a lower pixel resolution and narrower colour definition...
... Compared to PAL, the UK/European TV picture format, which is 50Hz interlaced, 25 fps (50Hz AC power supply here). It has slightly higher resolution, and better colour reproduction.
Technically speaking, about movies on TVs, movies are bested viewed at 25fps on a PAL TV screen, because they can simply be speeded up by 1 fps and then pitch-shift the soundtrack. When a movie is shown on NTSC TV it has to be telecined quite complexly, using a 3:2 (more recently 2:3) pulldown. This introduces annoying visual problems with some camera motion (bump/skips).
Using 24 fps on the phones is a bit hit-and-miss, it's fine if your source is a 23.976 movie DVD, but for most other content it doesn't match up. So 25fps seemed the better choice. It matches PAL DVD content and an awful lot of decent quality video content on the internet. For video such as NTSC DVDs and a small amount of 30fps internet content, 25fps combined with some frame blending maintains smooth motion on that content too.
I won't go into telecine / inverse-telecine pulldown methods, these are just phones!
I'm not sure what you mean about the size making a difference... even 20fps versus 25fps on the little phone screen can be distinguised quite easily.
M3 specifically, will encode source video of 25 fps or higher at a 25fps framerate, using frame blending on > 25fps (eg. 29.97 fps) material to preserve fluid motion. On video below 25 fps and above 23 fps, it will keep the native framerate - ie. your 23.976 fps feature film will remain at 23.976 fps on your phone.
(note this doesn't apply to old generation phones such as the W810/K750 that are limited in terms of bitrate / framerate, getting 24 or 25 fps out of them takes incredibly low bitrates, so m3 will use 20fps on those phones as a framerate / visual quality compromise).
I didn't include 30fps as an option initially because those extra 5 frames per second, that aren't needed in nearly all cases, cost a lot on the phone. If you kept the ~350kbps video bitrate used at 25fps when encoding at 30fps, you still have 20% more frames to spread that bitrate over - less bits per frame - lower video quality. Add to that, that at 30fps you must also lower bitrate to prevent stutters, down to about 275kbps at least, you're looking at at least 33% less bits per frame. It's not like there's enough bitrate at 25fps, so at 30fps visual quality will suffer greatly.
I'm assuming the n73 has better bitrate / framerate support than the K800 etc, much like the symbian-based P990 has. So i mentioned i'd up the limit to 30fps for the n73 for jj03.
About the video recording resolution. I did own a W900i till it suffered an impact, and i think it's above-average video recording (QVGA @ 30fps) was possible due to the nvidia go-force 4800 chip inside it. I believe it provided hardware-accelerated mpeg-4/h.263 encoding as well as decoding. Whatever video accelleration is provided in the current phones, it appears to be much more for decode than encode. So although the camera sensor can provide the images at a good rate, the phone can't compress them fast enough. You can't leave them uncompressed, because there isn't enough storage space. I don't think the ARM cpu in the phones can software-compress QVGA @ 30fps either, it's only 200MHz.
The best hope for improved video recording on SE phones in the future is that SE once again includes a powerful multimedia chip inside the phone for video duties.
Excuse the long post, i couldn't sleep tonight. |
jj03
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Posts: > 500
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Quote:
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On 2006-10-22 00:33:36, mysh wrote:
hey jj03, that is planned yeah. did you want higher framerates for the n73, like 30fps?
I'm working on a new profile system, and framerate will most likely be capped at 30fps, because anything more is a waste of bitrate with no visible benefits.
In fact 30fps isn't really needed either, 25fps looks as smooth. But there are some 30fps videos that would look better kept at 30fps, so no frames are cut out or blended together.
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Yes..some higher framerates for the n73 is what i had in mind...because at the moment, when i convert films, at 25fps, theres some serious skipping in playback...the pictures great, as is the sound, but becuase its skipping, i think it needs to go higher..it plays fine at 15fps, but that was using SUPER! |
jj03
Joined: Oct 29, 2002
Posts: > 500
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I'm still trying to find the sweet spot for the n73 regarding framerate...15 fps is fine..25fps gives some stutter...i know the processor speed is around 220mhz, so maybe it struggles at 25fps, given the size of the screen too...(2.4 qvga) |
dcuk
Joined: Jun 28, 2005
Posts: 121
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Hi Mysh,
I thought you were using xvid fixed profiles, since you're not please could you add a custom profile for the K750i
the size reduction is method is 'Precise bilinear' and resolution is 128x96 at 25fps, 200 video bitrate, 64kbps audio LC aac
Surprisingly when played on the K750i media player stretched to full screen doesn't look that different to 176x144 but you will find 128x96 does play super smooth at 25fps and will give users of that handset an extra option if they want 25fps
Thank you.
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Back to the K800i profile is it possible to tweek the encoder seek ahead settings to help remove the macro blocking shake into focus (simplest way I can try and descibe the effect that happens when watching an encoded video) happening on every scene change,
I don't remember it being there a couple of M3 versions ago but will check and see.
Keep up the great work and thank you for M3!
_________________
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Dcuk
Edit: to change @ symbol to 'at' as it created a link to mail to nothing
[ This Message was edited by: dcuk on 2006-10-22 20:35 ] |
mysh
Joined: Dec 04, 2005
Posts: 176
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hey dcuk
I can certainly add that as an option, no problem. Quite interesting to hear actually. Once the new profile system is finished, it'll also be very easy to use any arbitrary resolution and framerate.
Well spotted on the macroblocking during scene changes! I changed some of the advanced xvid settings a few releases ago (CBR buffer averaging). Previously, on a scene change, the codec would create rather large 'keyframes' (I-frames that used too much bitrate), that then caused the phones to stutter slightly, and in the case of the w900i, even to lose sound for a few seconds. So i reduced the available bits for new keyframes on scene changes, which results in no stutter or sound loss, but gives heavier compressed (macroblock-y) initial frames on scene change.
You're actually the first person to notice this behaviour! I was hoping someone would tho, because it bothers me also. It gives me the excuse to add an option for new/old keyframe encoding. I think i'll revert to the old method for all phones except the w900i, the only phone which had the original problem. |
DCUK7
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool, UK
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Quote:
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On 2006-10-13 02:12:42, dcuk wrote:
Welcome back Mysh,
It's good to see you back!
Hi ~DC:UK~,
I have to say I'm sorry I really had no idea there was already a DCUK when I joined!
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That's ok. Thats the reason I have the funny characters in the name, I know it will be unique! Someone did ask me why I created two accounts though!  |
Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: > 500
From: Toronto, Ontario
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@Mysh.
Thanks IMMENSELY for that incredible post. Yes in Canada we use NTSC. PAL has always been superior.
Well now that I'm armed with information its time to start encoding. Weeee!
|AppleTV2|iPhone 12Mini 256GB|iPad Pro 256GB| Previously ... K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded T68i). |
xan K
Joined: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: Republica Dominicana
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I open the M3 app today and noticed a new upgrade:
M3 v0.8.8.3
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Sony Ericsson + Esato = TOTAL PWNAGE!!!
[ This Message was edited by: xan K on 2006-10-23 00:52 ] | |
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Access the forum with a mobile phone via esato.mobi
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Posted: 2006-10-12 19:51
K750|Z500|Z520|K700|K790i|K850i, :Ericsson: T18z|T28World|T36m x3|T68m (Ericsson, not the rebranded 
