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Nokia N90 Success in Doubt? |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@mib-1800
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I think you push the limit of subjectivity too much. It is just a bl**dy phone by the way. It is not a $200K car. If you look at novelty factor, N90 certainly have. Have you seen a phone in this form factor with so many rotating hinges. There is the great flexibility to position camera at any angle which no other phone can.
Isn't that what your wrist is for?
Contrast this to K750/W800. It is just a lump of monotonous block/brick like K700 before it and the T650 before it and the T610 before it.
You call it a monotonous block but then below you compare it to the T610? Another successful product?
Where is wow factor?
The wow factor is the features/size ratio.
You have no idea how K750 is performing right now. Dont forget that K750 is SE bread-and-butter phone (and not niche like N90) and it should at least achieve the sales level of T610 before you can call it a success. If K750 cannot make that, then SE may drop further behind in market share.
You don't have to be psychic to see that this phone is already immensely popular.
If N90 flops, there is no impact on Nokia at all.
If? 
The mass market 2MP phones are coming very soon. Let's see how well K750/W800 stands up to that.
The K750i is more than just a 2.0mp phone. Its the best in class.
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[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-09-07 15:59 ] |
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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goldenface:
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| Isn't that what your wrist is for? |
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Can you twist your head so that your eyes are always facing the viewfinder at any angle?  I think you are not using your brain to think this out.
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| You call it a monotonous block but then below you compare it to the T610? Another successful product?
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Is 6610 more successful by sales volume than T610. By far. Is the 6230 more successful than K700. By far. All these are candybar (i.e. most common form factor) mainstream phones and so is K750. So your point being?
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| The wow factor is the features/size ratio. |
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Then N90 wins hands down. No doubt about it.
(keeping my finger crossed that you would not waste our time by asking for a contest to list down all functionalities of both phones).
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| You don't have to be psychic to see that this phone is already immensely popular. |
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So are the D500, Razr, 6230, 6680, 7610.
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| The K750i is more than just a 2.0mp phone. Its the best in class. |
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Which class? 
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-09-08 04:11 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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Actually, from my understanding, s60 is nokia's gui for Symbian and uiq is SE's gui for symbian. "series 60" is a different thing to Symbian version 6 (symbian 7 being the current version of symbian, upon which current s60 phones and uiq2 phones are based) I think UIQ is owned by Symbian and SE, don't know in what proportion though.
According to Symbian themselves, Symbian is owned by Nokia, Ericsson, SE, Panasonic, Siemens and Samsung and Nokia own 47%, so have a big slice but not complete veto power. I have no idea how up-to-date that info is, but it is direct from www.symbian.com. ref: http://www.symbian.com/about/ownership.html
It would be more expensive for SE to licence s60 from Nokia, than to use uiq which they already have part ownership of.
Also, other OEM's use UIQ, so UIQ3 will have sale potential for SE/Symbian. Motorola A925,A1000,A920 and a BenQ device and some brands I've never heard of, Arima and Foma, all use UIQ2.
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Marcus_129
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 136
From: sweden
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On 2005-09-08 05:07:38, mib1800 wrote:
goldenface:
Can you twist your head so that your eyes are always facing the viewfinder at any angle? I think you are not using your brain to think this out.
Is 6610 more successful by sales volume than T610. By far. Is the 6230 more successful than K700. By far. All these are candybar (i.e. most common form factor) mainstream phones and so is K750. So your point being?
Then N90 wins hands down. No doubt about it.
(keeping my finger crossed that you would not waste our time by asking for a contest to list down all functionalities of both phones).
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Iīm obviously not using my brain, please explain to me when I need some kind of lens i can turn.
Here we sold one 6610 when we sold 3 T610. And same ratio on 6230 and K700. Sure call them mainstream phones, but just that you now. All brands whant every phone to be mainstream phone, thatīs where they earn their money.
Sure, none can say that K750 kicks N90 ass in specs. BUT!! It also whops K750īs ass in size, and just that you now. Last time I checked people got tired of huge handsets in 1990 or something like that.
K750 will always sell more than N90, canīt understand what youīre arguing about.
People like different things, but not even 10% like the N90 over K750 and even less when you take notice of price. |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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On 2005-09-08 07:26:19, max_wedge wrote:
Actually, from my understanding, s60 is nokia's gui for Symbian and uiq is SE's gui for symbian. "series 60" is a different thing to Symbian version 6 (symbian 7 being the current version of symbian, upon which current s60 phones and uiq2 phones are based) I think UIQ is owned by Symbian and SE, don't know in what proportion though.
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UIQ Technologies is subsidiary of Symbian. SE owns it as much as Nokia or any other Symbian licensee. SE don't get the UIQ for free, but it has to pay the license fee for them for using it in their phones. That's the similar situation if SE would use Series 60.
And BTW. the newest Series 60 phones in sale uses Symbian OS 8.1 and one Series 60 phone using Symbian OS 9.1 is announced.
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On 2005-09-08 07:26:19, max_wedge wrote:
It would be more expensive for SE to licence s60 from Nokia, than to use uiq which they already have part ownership of.
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It's kind of hard to say when we don't know the license fees for these platforms, but I think those are pretty similar. And again, SE is not a part-owner of UIQ.
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On 2005-09-08 07:26:19, max_wedge wrote:
Also, other OEM's use UIQ, so UIQ3 will have sale potential for SE/Symbian. Motorola A925,A1000,A920 and a BenQ device and some brands I've never heard of, Arima and Foma, all use UIQ2.
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Motorola dropped Symbian about an year ago and don't use Symbian and hence UIQ anymore. That was a quite a big hit for UIQ, since Motorola was their biggest licensee. UIQ device sales have been pretty low lately and 1 or 2 devices from SE doesn't help that much in volume wise. Especially when the smartphones are not exactly the volume devices. We'll see how UIQ manages to survive in this very competing area.
[ This Message was edited by: orange on 2005-09-08 08:15 ]
[ This Message was edited by: orange on 2005-09-08 08:18 ] |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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marcus_129:
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| Iīm obviously not using my brain, please explain to me when I need some kind of lens i can turn.
....
K750 will always sell more than N90, canīt understand what youīre arguing about.
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Did I argue that K750 will NOT sell more than N90? Obviously you have NO idea what has been transpiring in the last many posts. Most probably you are too lazy to read .
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-09-08 08:39 ]
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-09-08 08:41 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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I didn't realise UIQ is wholly owned by Symbian, my bad. SE is still part owner of UIQ, but only in the sense that they are part owner of symbian.
S60 however is owned by Nokia if I'm not mistaken again  (you licence series 60 from Nokia, not Symbian). I still maintain SE have more control and flexibility in development by using a symbian owned ui than a Nokia owned one. I also expect SE are heading up a big part of UIQ development, whereas Nokia are primarily concentrating on s60 development. If SE can make uiq3 successful across a range of handsets (especially likely since uiq3 supports a hardscreen based interface) and not just high end, then UIQ3 will be taken up by more oems.
I agree moto dropping uiq is a blow. We'll have to see what happens |
DeLa
Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Posts: > 500
From:
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I think only two os's will survive: Microsoft Mobile and the own os's by the phone manufacturers. The heavy users of pda-like functions want big screens and functionality and they find that in the ipaq-series-like phones of HP or Benq etc. Therefore the applications written for and the syncronisation software will evolve towards MS Mobile.
Leaving no room for Symbian.
On the other hand I think that most mobile phones without the pda-fucntions (style J200 up to k750) will always hold the manufacturers os. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
max_wedge:
You're right. if SE licenses UIQ from Symbian, Nokia makes 47% (i.e. share in symbian). if SE licenses S60 from Nokia, Nokia makes 100%. Unfortunately UIQ3 is still vaporware whereas S60 is real. Who do you think would have more money to enhance the UI software in the future. Symbian-UIQ3 or Nokia-S60. And you know the next s60 will combine all capabilities of S60/80/90. This is what the new WM5.0 has. Since SE is a small player, it may be more advantageous to pick a side. (i,e S60 or WM)
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korbindallis
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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i have my k750 for a few months now and there is nothing nokia can provide in the new future that comes close to beting its unbranded camera hahahah
and i am only talking about the camera and only the camera
and i do not need a smart phone
But if i ever need one then its goin to be the p950 |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-08 10:15:32, mib1800 wrote:
max_wedge:
You're right. if SE licenses UIQ from Symbian, Nokia makes 47% (i.e. share in symbian). if SE licenses S60 from Nokia, Nokia makes 100%. Unfortunately UIQ3 is still vaporware whereas S60 is real. Who do you think would have more money to enhance the UI software in the future. Symbian-UIQ3 or Nokia-S60. And you know the next s60 will combine all capabilities of S60/80/90. This is what the new WM5.0 has. Since SE is a small player, it may be more advantageous to pick a side. (i,e S60 or WM)
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SE might buy out uiq if symbian looks like pulling support. They'll spend the bucks if it means maintaining independence. I may be wrong, but I feel SE's parent companies are both used to doing things their own way, and they won't easily accept product development at SE being dominated by what Nokia thinks a good interface is.
Maybe they have a WM device in development - but I don't think they will acept the Microsoft hegonomy any more than they will Nokia.
Personally I think they have it all under control. I don't believe they would have held off on a P910 replacement for so long without good cause. If UIQ3 is going ahead, then SE will be using it.
I hope it eventuates, since I don't like the s60 interface (that's just a personal preference, but I never have liked the Nokia ui's), and I sure as shit can't get my head around a Windows Sony Ericsson! Imagine - A Microsoft Walkman phone to compete with the Apple iPod |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
PM |
@max_wedge
Quote:
| SE might buy out uiq if symbian looks like pulling support. They'll spend the bucks if it means maintaining independence. |
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If I am not mistaken, Ericsson started the development of UIQ but later sold it to Symbian. So would SE buy back what was sold previously?
The challenge facing SE is 2-fold. First it need to come up with a a new smartphone platform. And secondly, it has to sell much more than the P** series. |
goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@mib1800.
Please tell me of a situation that would require both a rotating camera AND a rotating viewfinder. Gimmicky to say the least.
Also, please post the evidence you have of sales figures, I am dying to see them.
That monotonous candy bar - as you call it - is a very successful design, more than the N90 could even hope to be!
Why the T610 / 6610 sales figures comparison?
The K750i is the best Cameraphone in its class. The latest test I seen was in What Camera magazine - a mag which until recently didn't even rate cameraphones!
The K750i boasts most of the major functions of the N90 and is almost half the weight/size/price.
Now what? |
whizkidd
Joined: May 14, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: India
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This is still going on??
Carry on folks!
*retreats meekly*
T230 >> T610 >> Ngage QD >> N73 >> N85 >> Omnia HD >> And countless other review units |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@goldenface
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| Please tell me of a situation that would require both a rotating camera AND a rotating viewfinder. Gimmicky to say the least. |
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This is call "novelty". Tell me why SE came out with S700. The swivel form factor serve no purpose at all. Now you got your answer. then
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| That monotonous candy bar - as you call it - is a very successful design |
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Are you saying since candybar is used successfully by many, so SE see no need to come out with something new other than "copying" the well and tested candybar design?
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| The K750i is the best Cameraphone in its class. The latest test I seen was in What Camera magazine .. |
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EISA - a highly influencial society related to consumer electonics which every year gives award for the best product in various consumer electronics categories prized Nokia N90 as the best multimedia mobile phone for 2005-2006
So what does your statement proof?
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| The K750i boasts most of the major functions of the N90 and is almost half the weight/size/price. |
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Yes, K750 boasts to have but of crap quality such as video recording.
The last I look, K750 dont have "major functions" like 3G / EDGE / Smartphone.
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Posted: 2005-09-07 16:56
