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Nokia N90 Success in Doubt? |
superfot
Joined: Aug 24, 2003
Posts: 65
From: Greece
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i was planing to keep my p910(this phones are not for sale) and sell my 6680 to buy n90(i like the screen and video quality tha records and play)when i go to the local shop and saw it..........its very huge when it is closed and extremely big for series 60 when it opens so i buy a psp and wait for p950
if it was smaller and has the camera quality of real carl zeis lens(at least the quality of k750's camera) it will the perfect phone.........waiting for n91 and p50 | |
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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mib, the N90 is a smartphone and it can barely compete with the ancient P910 in the market....
And the fact is the N90 was marketed as a 2MP camera phone/multimedia phone. Way more capable at multimedia than the K750, yet the K750 is also marketed as a multimedia, 2MP camera phone, and is killing the N90 in the market. Why?
Maybe because people don't care about smartphones so much as they do ergonomics and form factor? Just a thought....
I'm sorry to accuse you of thinking Nokia are faultless,  I also do not think SE are faultless, but you accuse me of that just because I won't change my opinion about something to satisfy your view:
1. I don't think smartphones are a factor in the majority of consumer's choices, 2. I don't think SE handsets are unreliable, 3. I do think SE have a solid market strategy, 4. I do think the K750 pipped the post and stole Nokia's expected market for N90 (although they will get it back with the N91 and N70, by which time SE will have something else new and so it goes on).
You haven't presented me with any facts to dispute the above points of view. Your arguments seem to revolve around the idea that a phone buyer will always choose a smartphone over a non-smartphone unless there is any really compelling reason to choose the non-smartphone. In my opinion it is only a small percentage who will always choose the smartphone and that the majority will only look at what it can do out of the box. Questions like how powerful is the camera, how much memory, what form factor, what size? Smartphone doesn't figure in those sorts of decisions.
Given two years or so, and that prognosis may have completely changed. But that time is not now, and I just can't agree that the N90 is automatically better than the K750 just because it is a smartphone. Better for a small percentage maybe, but that won't make the N90 a market success.
I reiterate (my personal view); the N90 and K750 are pitched at the same market, and the K750 whooped arse.  It's what I think, give me some real facts (not tables of Nokia smartphone to non-smartphone ratios) and I will tell you if I've changed my mind 
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orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-04 16:09:42, max_wedge wrote:
And the fact is the N90 was marketed as a 2MP camera phone/multimedia phone. Way more capable at multimedia than the K750, yet the K750 is also marketed as a multimedia, 2MP camera phone, and is killing the N90 in the market. Why?
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I assume that "by killing..." you mean in quantity wise, right? It would be very nice to see the actual sales figures for these two, but unfortunately we are not able to get those, well never, due to the fact that manufacturers don't tell the sales figures for one specific device. Unless it's a special case, like N-Gage. Yes, you can make a guess, but that's it. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@max_wedge
Quote:
| 1. I don't think smartphones are a factor in the majority of consumer's choices, 2. I don't think SE handsets are unreliable, 3. I do think SE have a solid market strategy, 4. I do think the K750 pipped the post and stole Nokia's expected market for N90 (although they will get it back with the N91 and N70, by which time SE will have something else new and so it goes on).
You haven't presented me with any facts to dispute the above points of view. |
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You must be bloody joking. You are the one who has NOT provided any facts to backup whatever you said in 1-4 above. If you are not so terminally myopic then you would have read the following in my previous posts:-
1. N90 is not just a smartphone but also 3G and EDGE. If operators are pushing or consumers wanted to buy 3G/EDGE, then K750 has no ability to compete with N90 at all in this aspect.
2. I have shown you 3rd party survey which specifically said that. You are the one who cannot accept it.
3. You have not provided any proof!!!. So are we suppose to TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT?
4. See (3).
If you are game enough, then provide proof to back-up what you have said in 1-4 (and pls,pls.. dont give me any more of your personal conjectures). Otherwise, you're are just TKSS.
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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I think the N90 would have been so much better if it was smaller with a touch-screen too.
It it was just a bit smaller then this wouldn't have been a bad effort but it would seem that the quest to break new ground by packing even more features into a smaller package has been abandoned by the Nok.  |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
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Just saw first n90 publicity here in Portugal...guess what, theyīre focusing all their campaign in the fantastic Carl Zeiss lens, made in glass, and their fantastic quality!!! LOL
Yes, those famous expensive lens that coundnīt cope with SE cheap plastic lens in the k750/w800
So, isnīt this a FAILLURE??? All the cost of that thing, the size, the weight, and they couldnīt be better than the k750 in their maind advertized feature??? This marketing campaign just makes me LAUGH, but some guys will buy it "because Nokia says its the best and has CZ lense"
Of course, our dear fanboys will say no, that the block is a smartphone bla bla bla
Well, as smartphpnes i prefer n70 or n91...n90 is a big fat joke
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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He he he.
The camera seems to be the best feature possessed by the N90. Doesn't say a lot about the rest of the handset.
Oh and by the way, will they be giving out free Wheelbarrows to take the phone home in? (snigger!)
(Only joking!) |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Can I emulate you guys, pls, pls.
K750 has such a good camera. But unfortunately SE screws up super big time on the K750 because the video recording is super crap, the casing is super creaky, the joystick is super filmsy, the video playback is super lousy 3gpp only, the USB drive is super idiotic because need to install software to work, the phone is super unreliable, the phone is super low tech because no support for 3G/EDGE and finally the phone is super dumb, well, because it is not smart!!.
This is so super nice to write wahahahahahaha... (just joking). |
ares
Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Coimbra, Portugal
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Uh, k750 is soooo screwed, it only has a good camera, nothing else LOL
Go tell that to all the newly SE converts that i find here in Portugal, thankx to the k750 Most of them are people that never had a SE, and guess what theyīre surprised with the quality of the phone, they thought only nokia made phones (much like mib)
Most cases i know are from people that had s60 phones (3650, 6600, 7610, even 6630)...now what i hear from them is "what do i need symbian for when i can have all this in such a small device???"
Now we know that for mib1800 only 3G/EDGE is hightec...LOL Ever heard of something called miniaturization??? I now itīs a concept that was absent for n90 engineers LOL
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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THANK YOU Arez and others.
I'm not even gonna bother replying to the question about 3rd party surveys (since I've covered it to death in mib's SE unreliabilty thread), but I will say that I don't need sales figures to confirm the success of the K750 over the N90. It's plain as freakin' day
And regarding 3G/EDGE? The same arguments apply. If someone specifically needs edge or 3g, they have many smaller handsets with 1.3MP cams to choose from so only people with a need for 3G AND EDGE AND a 2MP camera AND a smartphone will be attracted to the N90. I suggest that is a rather small portion of the market....and as Arez says the N70 and N91 are a completely different proposition.
The thread asks is the N90 success in doubt? It's been made obsolete before it even had a chance, first by a non-smartphone K750, then by Nokia's own followup models.
@Orange, yes I do mean quantity. I'm not arguing that the N90 has no advantages over the K750 (smartphone, 3G and Edge are the only real advantages), but simply that the market prefers the K750, and that anyone needing smartphone, edge and 3g would likely wait for a better alternative (in form factor and ergonomics) than the N90.
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2005-09-06 02:10 ] |
orange
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Posts: 397
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Quote:
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On 2005-09-06 02:53:52, max_wedge wrote:
@Orange, yes I do mean quantity. I'm not arguing that the N90 has no advantages over the K750 (smartphone, 3G and Edge are the only real advantages), but simply that the market prefers the K750, and that anyone needing smartphone, edge and 3g would likely wait for a better alternative (in form factor and ergonomics) than the N90.
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This wasn't my point in my previous post. I was just saying that you solely rely on guesses and assumptions instead of fact when saying that K750i is killing N90 in sales figures. Selling figures of these two phones are the thing you simply can't say you know for a fact. And that's due to a fact that you don't get those anywhere. I'm just saying that it's pretty naive from anybody to refer to the sales figures, because you don't know them as a fact. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Uh..  , you guys look but you dont see.
Refer to my previous post that jest at the K750 (mimicking what some of you is doing with the N90) with all its so-called "weak" points. But why is it that K750 is not sinking? The reason is simple. Those "weak" points may not be the deal-breaker for the users because their main consideration maybe something else. Similar for N90. Those points that you keep barking on like size/weight may not be the main considerations for people buying N90.
Quote:
| I will say that I don't need sales figures to confirm the success of the K750 over the N90. |
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Well, then it seems like whole lot of hot air to me . You have nothing to support this. Even if (and that's a helluva big IF) you have, it still doesnt proof a thing even if sales figure of K750 is larger than N90. Because both phones are in different segments, for the K750 to match N90 in success, the sales figure may have to be several folds higher.
Before you guys run amok (and slash yourself ), just consider the P900/910 only sold 350K units quarterly and you already jumping up and down and declaring it a success. Contrast this to Nk6680 which most probably sold 8 times more than P910.
So based on your kind of logic, SE need to sell 8 times more K750 than N90 before K750 can even be considered a success. . (K750 is in same price range of 6680 and N90 in same range as P910). What do you have to say on this?.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-09-06 10:23 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: > 500
From: Australia
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Well you read me wrong again mib I am not a big fan of the P910. The P800 was a huge success, the P910 is just limping along. You are forever misconstrueing me as a diehard SE fan, yet I just simply have a different view and that view is not determined by a love of SE but by my analysis of the situation, which may or may not be right, but which is based on reason and not emotion.
I base my belief that K750 is doing better on several factors
1. The N90 was marketed as a multimedia camera phone, as is the K750.
2. Just about every lay person I speak to lately has heard of the K750. Very few people know about the N90
3. Phone stores everywhere have K750's, the N90 on the other hand isn't being stocked in anywhere the same numbers (this is according to the people who work in the stores) hence there isn't a demand for it.
There are many smartphone alternatives to the N90 that people who need smartphone features will choose over the N90 - and anyone who doesn't need a 2 megapixel camera has masses of really cool and petite smartphones to choose from, and still a good choice of 3G phones, so why would they buy the N90? There will be a very small niche market of people for whom the N90 will be an ideal choice.
So I guess you could say it is a success for those people, but I'm sure the peeps who bought P910's feel that phone is just as successful. Does this make the P910 a success? No. The only successful thing about the P910 is that it has only just allowed SE to claim they still have a smartphone in their line up. See, I am an SE fan yet I am under no illusions as to the positioning of the P910. You seem to think that SE have lost the smartphone race, whereas I am holding back my judgement until the next SE smartphone is released. If it is a killer, it may completely change SE's postioning in the smartphone market. (especially if they also bring out a hard screen uiq3 phone)
The N90 is a success in that it has provided a test bed for technology incorporated into the N91 and N70, but it is surely not a market success.
FOCUS: Nokia's N90 Isn't Ticket To High-End Success:
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/13809.php
Note: the article below is a good example of why I feel 3G is not yet a big factor in handset choice, especially in terms of corporate application, where you'd think broadband pda devices would be in high demand (but aren't): http://www.techworld.com/mobi[....]eatureid=1194&page=1&pagepos=2
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mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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@max_wedge
It is still too early to know whether N90 is a success or not because it is not widely available yet. The point that I dont agree is that success of N90 is somehow tied to how well K750 performed. For me, it is very clear that both these phones are catering to different market segment.
Some way back I have already told you I don't like N90. N90 is a niche product which means the price will be kept high and it wont sell in volume. So how do you define success for this kind of product? The fact that it can come out to the market is already a success of some sort. (Look at how many "high tech" phones that were launched and did not see the light of day).
If P800/900/910 sales volume is the measure of success, then I believe N90 would have no problem achieving this kind of sales volume. (In just one quarter, Nokia is selling something like 7million smartphones and N90 sales just need to be 5% of this to equal to P** series).
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goldenface
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: > 500
From: Liverpool City Centre
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@max_wedge
Yes. That article has summed it up nicely, again.
It is being marketed on the strength of its 2.0 mp cam but then again other handsets have 2.0 mp or more and are half the weight!!
With the N90 NOkia has attempted to carve itself a niche in the high-end, which is unfamiliar territory for Nokia.
Like the article says, NOkia will be relying on its brand kudos, which means tempting existing NOkia customers into forking out more money for a more complex device, rather than tempting new customers away from devices with similar performance/features that are both cheaper and smaller.
@mib_1800
It is possible to define any product as a success regardless of sales.
Does it have a wow factor?
Does it have people running to the bank to extend their overdraft?
Is "N90" the word on the streets?
Is "N90" the new bling?
It looks like analysts don't think so.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-09-06 11:49 ] | |
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Posted: 2005-09-03 23:49
