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Wake me up when SE releases a good phone |
Guto_ViP
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: |Brazil|
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On 2008-06-19 20:06:53, mr_lou wrote:
Again N82 disappoints me greatly when I found out I can't play music from a specific folder only. Instead it scans the whole phone and plays every file that can be played, which includes a whole bunch of stuff I do not want to play. That's ridiculous!
The "solution" is to make playlists, but that's stupid. I've already made my "playlist" by copying over the music I want to hear, and ordered it into folders. There shouldn't be any need creating playlists twice.
I will have to recommend people to stick with their Sony Ericsson phone, despite the stupid decisions Sony Ericsson makes. It just doesn't get any better than what Sony Ericsson offers.
Are you a expert with symbian? I'm not.... but maybe one program do that or a good configuration can resolve this...
Love or hate me...  Nokia 5120 -> Nokia 6120 -> SE T200 -> Motorola V800 -> SE W800 (stay with my wife) - > SE K800 (stay with my mom) -> Nokia N82 Silver -> Nokia N82 Black Edition - Firmware v30.0.019 -> What is the next??. | |
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mr_lou
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 403
From: Denmark
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On 2008-06-19 20:14:56, Guto_ViP wrote:
Are you a expert with symbian? I'm not.... but maybe one program do that or a good configuration can resolve this...
I did search for an alternative mp3 player and did find UltraMP3, but it wouldn't install. Haven't been able to find others, but I've given up now, so I'm not looking anymore. |
Guto_ViP
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: |Brazil|
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Maybe you can find here:
http://symbiansmaluco.blogspot.com/
Somes links:
Corecodec player 1.12 (Very good!): http://symbiansmaluco.blogspo[....]ec-player-verso-112-e-120.html
New MP3 player v.3.50+EQ: http://gallery.mobile9.com/f/29203/
Oggplay: http://symbianoggplay.sourceforge.net/
LCG Jukebox: http://www.4shared.com/file/3[....]ox_214_217_e_218__Mod.html?s=1
http://www.4shared.com/file/4[....]15fdc/LCG_Jukebox_230.html?s=1
Mp3 players review: http://www.symbian-review.com[....]r-software-for-series-603.html
_________________
Now with a Titanium N82 - firmware v20.0.062 (My birthday gift), but K800 stay with my mom.
[ This Message was edited by: Guto_ViP on 2008-06-19 21:58 ] |
Guto_ViP
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: |Brazil|
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Mr. Lou, im using LCG Jukebox... good player!
I saw waht you said about N82 isnt have smile for animated SMS, so i found a perfect program for this... Call Zensis Animated SMS
I found another essential program, one for call record... call Ultimate Voice Recorder...
I uploaded them:
http://rapidshare.com/files/1[....]ate_VR_e_Animated_SMS.zip.html
Test and tell me what do you thing.
Love or hate me... Nokia 5120 -> Nokia 6120 -> SE T200 -> Motorola V800 -> SE W800 (stay with my wife) - > SE K800 (stay with my mom) -> Nokia N82 Silver -> Nokia N82 Black Edition - Firmware v30.0.019 -> What is the next??. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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On 2008-06-19 11:34:11, mr_lou wrote:
The main reason is that Symbian phones run Java apps incredible slow compared to a non-Symbian device. Same thing goes for WinCE. The two games we have developed has about the same speed on an old SE T610 as they have on my Nokia N82 and the HTC S710 WM6 I owned briefly (which also had sound-problems with Java stuff).
Are those games specifically developed for SE phones?
And the Java Virtual Machine in smartphones seems to be the most buggy and less compatible ones, meaning only about 30-40% of the Java stuff that otherwise runs nicely on the majority of phones, will run on smartphones.
This is the most ridiculous I have ever heard. You just pull those figures out of where? 
I have no problem running Java apps on S60 since donkey years ago. The only thing is Java app takes slightly longer to startup in S60.
Some of my commonly used apps are Java like Opera mini, Yahoo Go, Gmail and quite a few Java games.
So if you're judging Java based on your experience on running Java stuff from a Symbian device, then I'm beginning to understand why we disagree so much.
Why dont you share with us what you have on your super-duper SE Java phone that cannot be replicated in Symbian?
You said you went to AAS to check software but the funny thing is you can't even go to the correct section i.e. S60V3. UltraMP3? As far as I remember this is only available for s60v2 and the developer has not updated it for v3. Of course you cannot install it. 
On my N82, I am using so many apps like IVCM, SkyeQuikey, BestProfiles, Fring, MobiTubia, miniGPS, CorePlayer, RescoViewer, SMS Chat or TomTom which can do so much and there is no Java equivalent. I bet your SE Java super-duper phone cannot do any of these period.
And if you dont know what these apps do maybe now you know how to go to the correct place to get the information.
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islandprd
Joined: Nov 29, 2007
Posts: 176
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Mr Lou,
Just to let you know that some respondents are not a SE user as advance as you. Some simply don’t get it 
As user of both brands, I can relate to what you are saying and can agree with some of your points. For example I agree that the inability to soften the sound while playing game is a disadvantage, even for N-gage game like asphalt. Either it plays loudly or off. I do agree that free inbuilt smilies on SE is nice to use and work seamlessly unlike the third party solution. UI wise, Nokia’s symbian software has its own advantage but so does SE.
Personally for non-smart phones I will take SE A100/A200 over Nokia S40 anytime. Between S60 and UIQ, I will take S60 anytime.
Problem arises when need to choose between S60 and A200. Neither is perfect. Both have its strong and weakness which mean user needs to compromise and have to live with it. |
mr_lou
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 403
From: Denmark
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On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
Are those games specifically developed for SE phones?
Sometimes they are using certain API's that is available on Sony Ericsson phones yes. But where Sony Ericsson phones also implement Nokia APIs (such as the Nokia UI, meaning Sony Ericsson phones run "Nokia Java games" fine), Nokia seems to leave out many APIs that would otherwise make it more compatible, for example a simple 3d API as mentioned by strizlow800).
Our own two games however, doesn't use any special APIs, so they run on MANY devices without problems. Except they run quite slow on smartphones. Java just runs slow on smartphones. Try running som benchmarks apps.
On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
This is the most ridiculous I have ever heard. You just pull those figures out of where?
Both personal experience over a long time, and the general perspective of Java ME developers. Feel free to go to a JavaME forum and ask. Most of the time they won't even support smartphones because there's too much trouble with them.
On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
I have no problem running Java apps on S60 since donkey years ago. The only thing is Java app takes slightly longer to startup in S60.
Some of my commonly used apps are Java like Opera mini, Yahoo Go, Gmail and quite a few Java games.
Good for you. I'm actually interested in knowing what these games are, if you don't mind sharing. I'm not surprised about the apps working, since they rarely require any special APIs, and the authors are bigger companies with experience who knows about workarounds when it comes to JVM bugs.
On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
Why dont you share with us what you have on your super-duper SE Java phone that cannot be replicated in Symbian?
Nothing in particular, but I have volume control for one thing, and I have a bunch of APIs the lets me run a whole lot of Java games you cannot run on your Symbian, and the ones you can run will run slower.
I never said Java could do anything that couldn't theoretically be replicated in Symbian. I'm saying the reserved: Symbian can't do much that can't be replicated in Java.
Also remember this is not about Java vs Symbian. This is about Nokia N82 vs....hm... well, W800 even. I have nice SMS features, nice radio reception, great media player etc.
On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
You said you went to AAS to check software but the funny thing is you can't even go to the correct section i.e. S60V3. UltraMP3? As far as I remember this is only available for s60v2 and the developer has not updated it for v3. Of course you cannot install it.
Well actually someone recommended me UltraMP3 and I went to the authors site without checking the list of compatible devices, just assuming it would work since it was recommended. But it's a good example of the lack of compatibility again. On plain Java phones most things will run (except on Nokia's Symbian devices of course). But of course, I wouldn't need to hunt down and purchase many apps for my Sony Ericsson java phone since they already include all the stuff. No wonder N82 is cheaper.
On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
On my N82, I am using so many apps like IVCM, SkyeQuikey, BestProfiles, Fring, MobiTubia, miniGPS, CorePlayer, RescoViewer, SMS Chat or TomTom which can do so much and there is no Java equivalent. I bet your SE Java super-duper phone cannot do any of these period.
I'm sure you're right about those applications have better features. I just think the included applications in Sony Ericssons are quite sufficient and doesn't lack any options for most users. I don't know about TomTom, but from what I hear WayFinder isn't that bad. Anyway, I can tell you when I get my C905.
IVCM is one of the type of apps you will have to do without on Java phones (for now) yes. As mentioned quite a few times (also in our previous discussion about this area), I'm not claiming Java can do all the things you can do with Symbian. You have options on a Symbian device you don't have on a Java phone, and vice versa. I'm merely saying that in most cases, you don't need a Symbian device, since the stuff you spend time on finding for your Symbian device is already either preinstalled in the Sony Ericsson java phone, though in a version with different and probably reduced features, but without lacking anything you need, or else you can find a Java equivalent quite capable of serving your needs. And I'd much rather go that way. (And still don't forget this isn't only about Java vs Symbian).
I have now at least given the N82 Symbian S60v3 a chance. I even bought some programmes and another headset in the fight, and my conclusion is that it just can't give me what I want. There are so many things lacking I can't believe it. I don't need a device that can theoretically do everything, but forces me to search for most applications which I find out doesn't exist after having tried 3 candidates, or else it does exist but have an insane price due to a small market. And when I'm done searching and installing candidates, I need to recharge the battery....great.
If you're happy with your Nokia Symbian phone, being unable to listen to proper radio in stereo, needing to recharge it daily because you're running IVCM and other apps in the background, has no need of listening to music in your Java games, not being able to use smileys in your SMS or else not being able to see name of the people you've sent SMS to, then good for you. But I need those things, and I'm not sacrificing those for being able to automatically switch my profile based on when I plug in my charger, or whatever.
Anyway, we will never agree on this. There's no point in keeping debating it. I'll always be able to argue against your statements, and vice versa. It just comes down to personal preference, and we're obviously finding it rather difficult believing the other part's point of view.
But we *could* take up another debate, when I get my C905. Let's compare C905 with e.g. N95 or N96 or whatever device you have by then. You throw apps, features and options in my face and I throw some in yours. Let's put both devices to the test then. I'll PM you by then? Could be interesting for other people to read, since it'll be a fight by two obviously very dedicated people. As I see it, there won't be a winner. There'll only be clarification about what phone offers exactly what in details, and thus help people choose. Then we *could* have a vote afterwards. How about it? |
NightBlade
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Nessebar, Bulgaria
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On 2008-06-20 09:07:38, mr_lou wrote:
On 2008-06-20 04:52:06, mib1800 wrote:
This is the most ridiculous I have ever heard. You just pull those figures out of where?
Both personal experience over a long time, and the general perspective of Java ME developers. Feel free to go to a JavaME forum and ask. Most of the time they won't even support smartphones because there's too much trouble with them.
I support that statement. My friends' Nokias are always having a hard time running the games I send to them. They just don't show up properly... in the best of cases. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Sometimes they are using certain API's that is available on Sony Ericsson phones yes. But where Sony Ericsson phones also implement Nokia APIs (such as the Nokia UI, meaning Sony Ericsson phones run "Nokia Java games" fine), Nokia seems to leave out many APIs that would otherwise make it more compatible, for example a simple 3d API as mentioned by strizlow800).
Since you are so well versed in SE/Nokia Java, it would not take you much (or would it? ) to give us a rundown on what are the differences between the Java implementation in S60 and your beloved SE.
Both personal experience over a long time, and the general perspective of Java ME developers. Feel free to go to a JavaME forum and ask. Most of the time they won't even support smartphones because there's too much trouble with them.
Since you are the one who made this categorical "claim", why dont you back it up with some links from Java developers website.
Good for you. I'm actually interested in knowing what these games are, if you don't mind sharing. I'm not surprised about the apps working, since they rarely require any special APIs, and the authors are bigger companies with experience who knows about workarounds when it comes to JVM bugs.
You only interested in games?? Why dont you get some ngage games then. It will blow whatever Java ones you have out of the water.
I have a lot of Java games from Gameloft which play without issue.
Nothing in particular, but I have volume control for one thing,
Most newer games have option to set volume. Havent we been thru this. Why are u nitpicking?
and I have a bunch of APIs the lets me run a whole lot of Java games you cannot run on your Symbian, and the ones you can run will run slower.
Put your money where your mouth is and give us the names of the game from major Java game developers that are not supported on S60.
This is about Nokia N82 vs....hm... well, W800 even. I have nice SMS features, nice radio reception, great media player etc.
Are you joking? Comparing W800 to N82. Maybe you should get a reality check.
I just think the included applications in Sony Ericssons are quite sufficient and doesn't lack any options for most users.
don't need a Symbian device, since the stuff you spend time on finding for your Symbian device is already either preinstalled in the Sony Ericsson java phone,
What are the things that are pre-installed on your SE that are not available on out-of box S60 other than the smileys.
I can tell you there are a lot the other way round.
If you're happy with your Nokia Symbian phone, being unable to listen to proper radio in stereo, needing to recharge it daily because you're running IVCM and other apps in the background,
Why are you so presumptous? Have you really own a N82 or you are just pulling our legs? The last time I use my radio on my N82, I remember it being stereo. And I dont need to recharge every day.
has no need of listening to music in your Java games, not being able to use smileys in your SMS or else not being able to see name of the people you've sent SMS to, then good for you. But I need those things, and I'm not sacrificing those for being able to automatically switch my profile based on when I plug in my charger, or whatever.
You are right. I dont really need smileys because 93% of people I sms to can't see the smileys anyway. And most of the time I can set volume in Java games so no problem there.
But I can't live without automatic profile as then I would need to remember to turn on/off silent when in meeting etc. I also can't do without a call manager which manage my call (like reject record etc)
But we *could* take up another debate, when I get my C905. Let's compare C905 with e.g. N95 or N96 or whatever device you have by then. You throw apps, features and options in my face and I throw some in yours. Let's put both devices to the test then. I'll PM you by then?
We (maybe except you) already know what C905 CANNOT do compared to N82.
As I see it, there won't be a winner.
If we talk about functionality, we already have a winner (N82/95/96). Then again you are only interested in smileys and volume control. What can I say.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-06-20 11:37 ] |
Dogmann
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: > 500
From: London England
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@Mr Lou
You really can't be serious in trying to compare a dumb phone with a smart phone? or can you? as really that's just dumb isn't it?
Now if you don't want or need a smart phone fair enough, even if you don't like Nokia or S60 no one says you have to like or use it. But saying it's rubbish based purely or your wants and needs is just not right.
Quite simply there is no one phone that is best for all same as their is no one OS that suits all. But it would seem from the sales of S60 and the N series many people disagree with you. Especially as this OS and series of devices from Nokia out sells your beloved SE by quite some margin. SE users are falling and SE is losing market position due to their devices to the competition and there must be a reason for this. So although many SE fans feel their device and UI is the best the majority of users simply don't agree do they? as otherwise they would of reached NO:2 by now instead of slipping to No:5
Also maybe you should read around the Forum for the many problems the new A2000 platform has bought. Try the K850 thread that 10 months after launch still has people waiting for yet another firmware to fix all. Or the other devices with slow media players and al the other problems as that explains SE's current drop in the market very well and the problems users are having with their products.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-06-20 11:16 ] |
mr_lou
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 403
From: Denmark
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....
Well that was rather disappointing, to see your "arguments" dropped to a rather childish level...
So final reply from me... since I'll just be repeating myself.
On 2008-06-20 11:08:59, mib1800 wrote:
Since you are so well versed in SE/Nokia Java, it would not take you much (or would it? ) to give us a rundown on what are the differences between the Java implementation in S60 and your beloved SE.
You're right, wouldn't take me much. Here you go.
http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N82
http://developer.sonyericsson[....]s/phonegallery/c905/p_c905.jsp
Java APIs on the C905 which are not present on the N82.
Mobile Services Architecture (MSA) umbrella standard JSR 248:
- Content Handler API (JSR 211)
- Scalable 2D Vector Graphics API for Java ME (JSR 226)
- Payment API (JSR 229)
- Mobile Internationalization API (JSR 238)
- Java Binding for the OpenGL ES API (JSR 239)
- Java 3D 1.1
- Mascot Capsule Micro3D Version 3
- Sony Ericsson Project Capuchin API
Overview of Java APIs in Symbian OS
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:J2ME:SymbianOS_and_J2ME
On 2008-06-20 11:08:59, mib1800 wrote:
Most newer games have option to set volume. Havent we been thru this. Why are u nitpicking?
"I'm sorry, you're limited to only running most newer games on your phone".
"Oh... ok then. Wouldn't you like an extra 500 EUR then?"
On 2008-06-20 11:08:59, mib1800 wrote:
Put your money where your mouth is and give us the names of the game from major Java game developers that are not supported on S60.
Fine... go to Gamejump.com, a site where many many JavaME developers, including major companies, release their games. Select a N82, check out how many games are offered it each category. Then select W800, check again how many games are offered.
For Arcade category, I count 18 games for N82 and 130 for W800.
For Action category, I count 19 games for N82 and 300 for W800.
For Puzzle category, I count 16 games for N82 and 192 for W800.
Count the rest yourself.
On 2008-06-20 11:08:59, mib1800 wrote:
What are the things that are pre-installed on your SE that are not available on out-of box S60 other than the smileys.
Ok... one last time for the entertainment factor of the other readers.
- A radio that has good reception. N82 does NOT has this.
- A mediaplayer with the basic stuff you'll hear many people complain N82 doesn't have.
- SMS functionality such as smileys, and date + time on the SMS in the folders. N82 does not have this
- It's possible to control volume on my Java games, fantastic.
- It keeps power for more than a day. Amazing.
- There's a browser that suits my needs, and which I use quite a lot
- Much better Java abilities with a much bigger market offering much more games and application than you'll see on the Symbian market, and thus also a lot of freeware.
Are we done now?
@Dogmann
Sure I can compare whatever I want. If I need to solve something, like "The quest of getting to work in the morning" I could choose between a bicycle or a car. Two very different things, but each with their capabilities of getting the job done, at each their cost. I like the exercise so I'll go with the bicycle, but I completely understand those who's too lazy and choose the car.
In the smartphone vs dumbphone issue, I do understand why *a few* people would choose the smartphone, but absolutely not why the majority would. The advantages of a smartphone are so few, and compared with the downsides, the advantages kinda gets lost to me.
I'm not saying N82 is rubbish. Just saying that for most consumers, a dumbphone will offer so much more than a smartphone, and in this case I'm also comparing the hardware-part of the UI, such as the keys. How many people needs to be able to record conversations? How many people needs to have the phone change profiles automatically? I think the N-series is selling for other reasons, such as the camera.
Anyway, yes, it's a matter of preference. And you're right that SE is dropping due to many stupid decisions. That's why I went for the N82 in the first place, being quite sure it would be better than the standard SE delivers today. Especially the K850 and P990 stories made me switch. But I've learned my lesson now. I need to stick with SE, because they offer overall the best phones with the widest market in my opinion. |
NightBlade
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Posts: > 500
From: Nessebar, Bulgaria
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On 2008-06-20 13:17:30, mr_lou wrote:
I'm not saying N82 is rubbish. Just saying that for most consumers, a dumbphone will offer so much more than a smartphone, and in this case I'm also comparing the hardware-part of the UI, such as the keys.
Agreed. |
bavlondon2
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: > 500
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I like this thread.
At the end of the day if SE were competing with the rest then such threads wouldnt exist but the fact is SE have fallen behind. The cancellation of Paris and BeiBei are proof of that.
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mr_lou
Joined: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 403
From: Denmark
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On 2008-06-20 00:35:59, Guto_ViP wrote:
Mr. Lou, im using LCG Jukebox... good player!
Thanks for the recommendation. I tried the application, and while it does indeed allow me to play the music in a specific folder, my newly purchased headset with playbuttons is useless when using LCG Jukebox.
On 2008-06-20 00:35:59, Guto_ViP wrote:
I saw waht you said about N82 isnt have smile for animated SMS, so i found a perfect program for this... Call Zensis Animated SMS
A-SMS from Zensis is exactly the application I've installed. It doesn't integrate well enough. |
mib1800
Joined: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: > 500
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Java APIs on the C905 which are not present on the N82.
...(snipped)
Anyone using these APIs to develop games or apps yet?
Fine... go to Gamejump.com, a site where many many JavaME developers, including major companies, release their games.
...
Count the rest yourself.
I am not sure how you count. In the "adventure" category it gives the same 11 pages whether I select W800 or N95 as the phone.
- A radio that has good reception. N82 does NOT has this.
You cheated. N82 has a radio too. And I have no reception problem.
btw: I thought you gonna tell us something that your mighty SE A200 platform has that out of box S60 dont.
- A mediaplayer with the basic stuff you'll hear many people complain N82 doesn't have.
Wait a minute. There are something N82 has that your SE dont like visualisation or 8 bands equaliser.
- There's a browser that suits my needs, and which I use quite a lot
whoopi. Your w800/c905 has a browser and N82 dont??
I dont even want to waste my time listing out the long list of things the out-of-box N82 have that the W800/c905 can never have.
Are we done now?
Not quite. Like dogmann said, it is so silly and ridiculous to compare a smart and dumb phone in any which way other than based on your own personal preferences. Good luck to you. Enjoy putting smileys in sms and playing Java games.
OK. Now we are done.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-06-20 16:40 ] | |
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Posted: 2008-06-19 20:14
