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Which SE models have the SAME cam module as the W810i |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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yes, what a missed opportunity!
but I guess we woulda paid more for CCD. Remember S700 was like $1000 compared to the $800 of the K700
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razec
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
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From: Mars
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^^ Yes max but that was what SE fans are longing since S700.although today i wouldn't think a single CCD raises price so much. given also the fact that there are already quite many phones that utilizes CCD and with Sony's development/integration of 12megapixel CCD in their cybershot digicams it will surely lower the cost for integrating 5/6megapixel sensors to phone. 
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[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2008-03-22 01:54 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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I tend to agree, though other factors such as more battery consumption, larger size etc also contribute to cost and impracticality.
Still, it would be nice. CCD still has less noise problems than CMOS, though the gap is getting narrower.
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Supa_Fly
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
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On 2008-03-22 02:53:07, razec wrote:
^^ Yes max but that was what SE fans are longing since S700.although today i wouldn't think a single CCD raises price so much. given also the fact that there are already quite many phones that utilizes CCD and with Sony's development/integration of 12megapixel CCD in their cybershot digicams it will surely lower the cost for integrating 5/6megapixel sensors to phone.
Not likely back then! CCD modules where VERY VERY expensive, and very few manufacturers could make them for use on cellphones. This wasn't 2006 ... it was 2003/2! Hardly ANY cam phones existed EVEN in Japan. Only they did have CCD but remember the weight and SIZE of the S700!? Yeah I didn't want that in my K750i. That battery was also HUGE in the S700 because of power consumption. The S710i was much more frugal but still not pleasant for 1/2 wk usuage. I'm glad no CCD. CMOS is much cheaper and just about equal now.
Many of you don't realize that even SONY uses CMOS in HD 1080p HDD Camcorders! And Digital Cameras as well. So CMOS is top quality. But without Glass/Quartz lenses, its not enough. Now with VarioPtics liquid lense technology and Seiko's manufacturing at mass speeds, maybe we'll see these in SE's future phones by next year??
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WhiteEye
Joined: Jun 20, 2006
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From: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Why didn't anybody mention D750, T-mo version of K750??
from my observations, sometimes it's better off not knowing. |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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The D750 is just a rebadged K750, nothing more 
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AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
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On 2008-03-22 08:19:19, Prom1 wrote:
Not likely back then! CCD modules where VERY VERY expensive, and very few manufacturers could make them for use on cellphones.
All digicams, except some of the large dSLRs use CCD sensors. How come these are not "VERY, VERY expensive"?
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max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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that's quite incorrect. Many low end digicams use cmos, and even some DSLR's use cmos (which once was unheard of).
Apart from that, a digicam is a dedicated package. The issues of space and energy consumption are not so much of an issue in dedicated cameras because they are not competing with other phone functions for the limited space and energy.
Anyway, if you want to argue that CMOS isn't cheaper than CCD then you are fighting a losing battle. It's pretty much an accepted fact, just google or wiki it. Infact, due to the cheapness and lower power consumption of CMOS, the reverse is happening. Due to more development going into CMOS because of it's advantages in small convergence devices, CMOS is becoming as good as CCD, and one day CCD will cease to exist in all but ultra high end gear.
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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-03-22 14:42 ] |
himlims_nl
Joined: Apr 06, 2004
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so agreed; w810 is (in my opinion) best SE phone
[ This Message was edited by: himlims_nl on 2008-03-22 14:42 ] |
max_wedge
Joined: Aug 29, 2004
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On 2008-03-22 15:41:48, himlims_nl wrote:
so agreed; w810 is (in my opinion) best SE phone
[ This Message was edited by: himlims_nl on 2008-03-22 14:42 ]
it doesn't have an active lense cover which is essential for a camera phone. This is one area W810 loses out because it is a walkman.
W810 has EDGE, screen light sensor, and a brighter screen. These are the only advantages over K750 (and of course the Walkman player). These don't make up for lack of active lens cover in my view.
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AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
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On 2008-03-22 15:40:33, max_wedge wrote:
that's quite incorrect. Many low end digicams use cmos
Do you know of any specific models? I know of only one, the Kodak C513.
On 2008-03-22 15:40:33, max_wedge wrote:
and even some DSLR's use cmos (which once was unheard of).
I know. My Canon 300D has a huge CMOS sensor, compared to what you have in camphones (4/3" vs 1/2.8" in K850i). With these large sensors, sensitivity goes up.
Anyway, if you want to argue that CMOS isn't cheaper than CCD then you are fighting a losing battle. It's pretty much an accepted fact, just google or wiki it. Infact, due to the cheapness and lower power consumption of CMOS, the reverse is happening. Due to more development going into CMOS because of it's advantages in small convergence devices, CMOS is becoming as good as CCD, and one day CCD will cease to exist in all but ultra high end gear.
I didn't say that CCD is cheaper than CMOS! I just don't agree with the description of CCD being "VERY, VERY expensive". But I agree that CMOS will one day overtake CCD in quality and low-light performance, just not yet. The two year old i-mobile 902, which currently sells for about USD 200 on eBay, still beats even the latest offerings from Nokia and Sony Ericsson.
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[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-22 15:16 ] |
max_wedge
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the i902 is an exception to the rule though. It is a large and heavy phone.
CMOS is more likely to remain the sensor of choice for phonecam manufacturers as imho CMOS will increase in performance quicker than CCD will decrease in size.
I take your point that CCD aren't very very much more expensive, though at the time of the S700 they were considerably more expensive than cmos to produce at sizes small enough to fit in a camera phone.
And by low end dedicated digicams I meant el cheapo no-name brands! You are right most Kodak, Nikon etc all use CCD. And until recently the same was true of DSLR. I notice Canon now are using all CMOS for their DSLR's. The quality of CMOS is easier to manage at large chip sizes, but as CMOS improves, they will work their way down to all models.
Camera phones will also help drive the improvement of CMOS technology.
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AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
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On 2008-03-22 17:08:39, max_wedge wrote:
the i902 is an exception to the rule though. It is a large and heavy phone.
It is identical in size to the K850i (well actually it's half a millimetre thicker), and about 20 grams lighter.
The only thing on the 902 being good is the camera module, but that's because this part is produced by Sony. The rest is of fairly poor quality. I don't recommend it unless you want to spend 200 dollars on a phone that may break in six months. Which mine just did 
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[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2008-03-22 16:21 ] |
max_wedge
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well the cheapness of the rest of the 902 then explains how they could afford to use a CCD instead of CMOS.
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AbuBasim
Joined: Nov 04, 2005
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On 2008-03-22 17:17:26, AbuBasim wrote:
I don't recommend it unless you want to spend 200 dollars on a phone that may break in six months. Which mine just did
It actually didn't I opened the phone. Loose connection to the "vibrator" caused the phone not to detect battery charge and wouldn't allow charging. Now it's working fine again!
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Posted: 2008-03-22 02:46
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