Posted by vanquish
This must stop.
It is fine for members to chat about non-mobile related things.
But it must not get in the way of the primary focus of this forum: Sony Ericsson and mobile phones. It must not cause members to fall out, if such religious and political threads start to get out of hand, then members, mature members, should intervene and tell moderators.
Its not a political forum, i have been angry with members for their religious views but, they may have been a great help to me concerning my phone. it just spoils everything, stop getting poltical!
@axxxr
you, for one, are a person that i feel takes things a bit too far. sure, you have views but you just seem to ridicule everyone elses, whats the point in a political or religious debate if you dont consider the other persons views? that is a moronic response mate, please, keep on topic.
_________________
Visit se-nse, new design coming soon.
Congrats to London! Haha to Paris.
Looking forward to my K750i.
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-07-10 17:58 ]
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
Hang on just a second their matey...you been having a bad day or something?..I have'nt even participated in this thread and your having a go at me as if i've started this debate...And for your information I don't ridicule anyone else's views,everyone has their opinons and i always respect that...I only posted that as a lighhearted joke and so calm down,i found thread quite boring anyway as we have had this discussion so many times in the past...yawn!
Posted by scotsboyuk
| Quote: |
|
Then why comment?
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
Just thought i show my face!...come on guys where is your se-nse of humour?
Posted by scotsboyuk
| Quote: |
|
Yes, very comical. Now where is that smilie for raising one's eyebrow ... ?
Back on-topic now please.
Do you have any comments to make on the issues, which have been raised here axxxr?
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
I believe you were looking for this
I don't think i can add anything further to this debate apart from what has already been said,and i do believe most of these points have been raised also in past aswell a few times..I will however just say that Political and Religious threads should not be banned from esato and more freedom of speech and varied opinions should be encouraged,just that the moderators need to work out a way to make them function in a proper and respectfull manner.
Posted by slattery69
it not just down to the moderators but the people who participate in the thread.
i for one have taken part in some of these threads and do enjoy them as i like to see both side and see other peoples points of view and there reasons for them
however i find many people who take part dont give a dam about anyones point of view but there own and if anyone challenges there narrow view they throw there toys out of the pram and start name calling
if you arent intelligent enough to accept that other people many have a different view to yourself or see evidence differently and argue the case sensible and rational without the toys going out of the pram. i believe you should be banned from that topic no matter what your rank at esato (memeber or moderator or contributor)
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
That is a pretty good suggestion and "moderators take note" banning a member for indecent or impoper behaviour in a thread is the correct way i think and might actually be workable.
Posted by haynesycop
that is a very very good suggestion/idea
that way less arguments will be generated
i hope this will be implemented
Posted by tranquil
So that would be us saying "Sorry mate. You can't say what you mean but he/she can."
That is how it would be looked upon.
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
But don't you practice that anyway by locking or deleteing threads?..you the Mods decide whats acceptable or not,its basically your choice no one else has a say in it so whats the difference?..In this case the idea is to keep the threads fair and balanced and on topic.
Posted by tranquil
Do you find it fair when I delete a topic, or post, of yours?
Posted by axxxr
What do you think?
Posted by Sammy_boy
If everyone would care to look this way at the last few posts for an excellent example of what Scotsboy is talking about.....
Please excuse my sarcastic comment at the end. I'm in one of those moods. Sorry.
Posted by absinthebri
| Quote: |
|
What's he talking about?
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
I think sammy is reffering to this
Posted by absinthebri
| Quote: | |||
| |||
You think I'm going to follow links all night?
It seems to me some people like to make political posts at will and simultaneously attempt to silence all dissenting voices.
Posted by Jim
| Quote: |
more freedom of speech and varied opinions should be encouraged |
Yeah right, you sure you believe in this axxxr ? Take your last posts as example ...
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
Good evening...what was i going to say??..yeh i was going to say i completely believe in that statement i made..why is everyone on my case today or is it just me?
Posted by Sammy_boy
I hope this isn't turning into a flame war....
Be a bit of a cruel irony if Scotsboy's thread got locked due to a flame war!
@axxxr - didn't you know, today is now officially the 'get axxxr day'
By the way you smell!
I'll shut up now before I send this even further off topic
Posted by axxxr
Sniff Sniff.....i see what you mean sammy_boy damm i need a shower!
look over there terrorists heading for esato.....runnnn!!
Posted by tranquil
| Quote: |
|
OK, time to get back on track so I'll air my thoughts.
Masseur has allready said most of what needs to be said from the moderators side but I do have viwes on this as well.
Political and relegious topics scare the living daylight out of me!
Not that I have a big problem with them as such but, as Masseur said, they are a lot of work.
They need to be watched much closer than other topics and at the same time, if we do anything to them, all hell breaks loose;
Deleting/editing a post are looked at as "cencorship and interfearing with freedom of speach."
Removing links or pictures are looked upon the same way.
Warning members, who step over the line, gives us grief as we ar bombarded with PMs about how unfair we are and how useless we are at our job.
Banning a member for the same reason makes it even worse; Then several members ask where that member has gone and why he was banned. If we tell those members why we are find ourselves breaking our principle of privacy towards the banned member and when the ban is lifted that member are ready for a fight because we didn't tell hes mates the truth.
If we lock a political/religioius topic we find a pile of PMs from members who ask us to reopen it because they had a few more things to say.
Removing a poitical/religious topic results in flaming, often in a new topic created for the single reason to give us a hard time, where we are expected to "defend" ourselves. If we don't we are called chickens who hide and don't dare stand up for our actions.
I am not a big fan of these kinds of topics but I see why they appear every now and then; It's things we all are concered about one way or another. It's natural th speak to those you "meet" in here every day about things that are on your mind.
Banning political/religius topics?
No, I don't think that is the way to go.
The way to go is as simple as this: When Team Esato see the need to take some kind of action you accept it. When we say "stop, enough is enough", that's what it is.
Posted by absinthebri
@ tranquil
Excellent post. I can see how much work we give the mods!
I'd like to think that when a moderator has edited or pulled a post of mine, or given me 'advice', I have accepted such action gracefully. For all my faults, I'd like to think I accept moderation here without comment. I'd also like to note that, in my humble opinion, the moderators here tend to be fair and sensitive.
Posted by slattery69
On 2005-07-10 22:27:12, tranquil wrote:
So that would be us saying "Sorry mate. You can't say what you mean but he/she can."
That is how it would be looked upon.
i disagree i think most memebers would be happy to see someone banned from the topic if they are just posting to inflame a discussion or single someone out.
i dont think you will be banning people who are making legitimate arguements rather people who do the exact opposite.
i also believe thats the participents in the said posts also have a responsiblity to make sure that people keep the thread running correctly. i think only after they fail should the mods need to step in and ban people from the thread
Posted by tranquil
Singeling people out in a heated discussion is very difficult. The only way to do that is to watch the topic all the time.
By reading through a topic once in a while we find posts that ought to have been removed but the following three or four posts might reffer to that single post (Sometimes even 10th to 15th post after that again as well). By removing one post (That post wich qualyfies for banning) we need to go through the whole topic, from the end and forwards, to make sure there is no refferences to that post. Leaving refference posts defeats the purpouse of removing one post.
I certainly don't have the time to stare at one topic waiting for someone to say something stupid. If I did I'd guarantee you there'd be three or four others who share that single members view and we have the same rigmaroll going again.
Acceptence for us doing what we see needed is what I ask for.
_________________
The ultimate ring tone
[ This Message was edited by: tranquil on 2005-07-11 08:44 ]
Posted by slattery69
thats fine i still think its the members who are using the thread first and foremost who should check there own behaviour. it tends to be the same few who lose the ablity to rational debate anyway.
i do accept that it must be tough moderarting such topic as well as everything else on a busy day on the board when posts can be flying in left right and centre
Posted by vanquish
I think they should be banned.
@axxxr
You are such an idiot sometimes. This was a delicate thread and you come in saying where is your se-nse of humour? Oh haha. And then you turn all serious, as if you know it all.
Sorry, but a long time ago i thought you were a great guy. And i can say from experience because of these stupid 'freedom of speech' religious and political threads i went off you. you insulted a close esato member friend of mine, and she was not the kind of person that would do something to get an insult like that, and i thought, this guy is crazy. He is obsessed with politics and having his way and making sure his opinions are shown.
The reason why there is no point in these threads is because a) No-one ever backs down and b) this is a mobile phone forum discussion
You also ruin threads (not you axxxr, im not picking on you, others to) by turning it all political. On se-nse the thread about the london bombings was full of sympathies and a light hearted discussion about what happened. The one on esato is about members arguing in terrorism and islam are connected! I mean come on! Can we not just use our own brains to work out if something political or religious is getting out of hand. I have to agree with scotsboyuk. I am sorry, but this is not a discussion it is plain fact.
Esato is not about freedom of speech, it is about mobile phones. Sure, you can have a laugh but not at the expense of its primary function which can be destroyed if members fall out over political issues etc. etc.
Please! Just grow up all of you.
Posted by methylated_spirit
I tend to stay away from political threads, generally, its not my bag to be honest. But, I think political threads should stand. If we stop these threads because they are "non-mobile" what about threads like "on the couch with scotsboyuk" and "miss copperfields chat about anything thread" and, of course, practically ALL my threads! If you start saying "you cant create political threads, its a mobile site" then surely, all the other non-mobile related topics have to go too? I know you are talking about flame wars, people arguing, etc, which a lot of these other threads i've mentioned aren't conducive to, but, its a community forum, as has been mentioned a few times, and, whether you are of a political bent or not, as part of the esato community, you have to respect that other members are. Of course, these threads do have a tendency to escalate into full scale vitriolic hatred at times, but cutting them out of esato? I reckon thats maybe a little drastic. Esato is a rich place, with intelligent, open minded people from across the world, and its good to hear these peoples opinions on a wide variety of topics.
Posted by absinthebri
| Quote: |
|
Growing up starts with accepting that the world exists and that there are causes and effects.
Posted by absinthebri
| Quote: |
|
Bri agrees with a Meths post 100%.
Is this a first???
Posted by methylated_spirit
Quite possibly!
Posted by vanquish
| Quote: | |||
| |||
And knowing what to start, what to finish, when to start and when to finish.
And knowing that this is a mobile phone forum not a political/religious forum!
Posted by absinthebri
| Quote: | ||||||
| ||||||
So go and discuss mobile phones.
We all have views on many things.
Posted by vanquish
Excuse me? I think you were the one in favour of political/religious threads. How can we dicuss those if people are falling out over politics
Posted by Sammy_boy
I don't think I'm in favour of totally banning political/religious threads, just some of the silliness that goes on in them. At the time of writing the London bombings thread was getting a bit silly and personal, that's what I don't want to see. Perhaps when it gets to that stage for PM'ed warnings to be send and posts deleted, or perhaps the thread locked.
I'm for intelligent debate, but not mud slinging and 'my religions better than yours' or 'all muslims are terrorists or sympathise with them' and other such swinging, discriminatory comments.
Posted by vanquish
Well i dont exactly mean banned. but i mean kept under control.
Posted by carkitter
Speaking of being under control...
Two moderators have given thier views and also said how much hard work these topics are for them.
I think we should all accept these views and not keep going over old ground already covered previously.
Posted by haynesycop
People need to respect people opinions for these type of threads to work
If people can do this without causing arguments then these threads may be able to work
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
Excuse me but i think you have issues with that you need to discuss with me in private and not in a open forum.and I think you need to think twice about calling me an idiot because i won't accept that kind of language towards me...I hope thats clear.
If you don't like my style and what i say or you have been, so to say "PUT OFF BY ME" then so be it,does it look like i really care.
I think the real problem you have with me is your so close friend issue,you don't know the whole story behind that so don't even go there...If i like political issues and like posting topics regarding this subject then its my choice...thats just tough mate i will post what i like...I may not like what you choose to post but i never object to it....why don't you just carry on with your little back stabbing party back on se-nse with your pack of mates that don't like me ( Or shall i reveal to everyone why you and your gang really don't like me )...and just to let you know if you have any further problems you wish to discuss with me then please by all means PM me so we can sort things out.
_________________
WARNING TO JAMBA
ONLY IF LIFE WAS THIS PERFECT
[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-11 11:49 ]
Posted by vanquish
Well get more moderators then.
@axxxr
why did i call you an idiot? look back at your first post in this thread.
Posted by methylated_spirit
the only lucid, well thought out, intelligent post meths has ever made has been lost in all the nastiness
Posted by carkitter
@vanquish
You're out of line. You'll get this thread locked.
Seems Scotsboyuk was right after all. It's very sad.
Posted by scotsboyuk
This is actually a very simple issue if we look at it rationally for a moment.
Political/religious threads should be able to exist here at Esato, in moderation of course (pardon the pun). Suchthreads should be civil and rational with all participants respecting one another. Unfortunately this seldom happens and they usually descend into pettiness and flaming.
Why should such threads, which consistently produce these reults, be allowed t continue in that vein? As I said I do favour banning them completely, but I accept that that is neither a popular nor likely option. Therefore I am perfectly happy to go along with the idea of letting them continue, but I do think we need tougher rule son them.
First and foremost political/religious comments should be banned from any thread, which does not specifically deal with them. Secondly those threads, which do should be under strict supervision so that at the first hint of flaming or anger the thread is locked. Harsh, but effective. If people cannot conduct themselve sin a civil manner then they should not be allowed to debate such topics. Those who wish to discuss such issues will just have to learn to be more civil towards one another and think before they type.
Posted by methylated_spirit
more civil...thats the major one, and you cant moderate that! If peope want to fight, they are going to. the main offenders 9its always the same half dozen, from what i can see, anyway) need to grow up, let others have their say, and respond in a mature, reasonable way.
IMHO (In Meths' Humble Opinion)
Posted by haynesycop
it is obvious that these threads are not going to work
i myself and most other people on esato respect peoples opinions even if i/we do not agree with them
but unfortunately there are a small minority of people who are unable to to do this and as a result threads get locked
it is a sad situation which i doubt will change anytime soon
Posted by vanquish
| Quote: |
|
How am I out of line? I know I am very... loud, and very honest. But yes, i am honest, i dont beat about the bush.
The message is clear. If you think a poltical or religious thread is getting out of hand contact a moderator. Do not fire it up, post in it, call members rude names because of their views etc.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@meths & miss c
I wholeheartedly agree with both of you. It seems to me that confrontation and bitterness keeps arising in these threads. I think it is entirely reasonable to do what I suggested in my last post in this thread.
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
I don't think you should stoop down to petty name calling...but that might just be your level.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@vanquish & axxxr
If either of you have a problem with one another please conduct it via pm thank you. This is really just going towards proving my point really, and I think I can do that quite adequately myself thank you very much.
Posted by axxxr
| Quote: |
|
Thats what i said to Vanquish earlier...to sort this matter out by PM.