Posted by vanquish
Gah!
Well, I hope James Bond can do something for us
Posted by Sammy_boy
I remember that, there were some dramatic pictures on the TV of that raid, the entire front of that floor of that building was ripped out.
Just a thought - I'm not normally a fan of those Anti-racism/Livestrong/Make Poverty History 'rubber bands', but I would be willing to buy and wear one that signified our solidarity against terrorism and that we won't be scared or bowed by it, with the money going to charity or a good cause, of course. I wonder if something like this would be a good idea?
Posted by absinthebri
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Excellent idea!
Posted by jakester2000
Hello guys. Yesterday was a horrible day. I work in the BMA in Tavistock Place and the bus blew up right outside my window at 9.45. It meant I had the rather unique and unpleasant experience of looking out my window down onto the top deck of that bus.
I arrived at work at Euston at 9.05 (the bombs had already gone off at Kings Cross and Russell Square I believe) they claimed there had been a power surge and we were stcuk in Euston for a bit. I got into work at 9.20 (Thank god I wasn't 10 minutes late!!) I sat down at my desk:
.jpg)
That is Tavistock Square out that window. Then the phone rang, as I was speaking to the girl there was an almighty explosion and I saw bits bouncing off my window. I immediately thought the BMA building had had an explosion. I opened the window and stuck my head out....
Grim. I cannot describe the scene as anything else. The roof had been blown completely off and some people had been blown clear of the bus. I'll never forget the sight of the top deck. Everyone was screaming and waving their arms. Some people were literally smoking. Blood was spattered up the outside of my building and debris was falling from the sky. A lot of people of the BMA were crying or in shock and they hadn't even been at the front to see the carnage. I kinda wished I hadn't looked to be honest.
Worse thing is I was in a Bermuda Triangle from Russell Square to King's Cross and we were isolated and a small piece of land outside the back of the BMA for a couple of hours. Good job the British Medical Association is there - they were shouting for doctors and there were some to help. I was shaking for a bit.
I hope everyone here is ok and everyone's family and friends are ok. Im glad I was able to get a call to my parents before they saw the location of the blast on the telly!!
[ This Message was edited by: jakester2000 on 2005-07-08 12:40 ]
Posted by vanquish
Sugar! you were close! I hope you're ok mate!
Posted by carkitter
@jakester2000
Thanks for sharing your account. I'm glad to hear you were not hurt.
My best wishes go out to all who have been affected by these events.
I'm very impressed with the way Londoners are coping with these bombings. You are to be commended!
Posted by Sammy_boy
I think the Brisish bulldog spirit is coming out now!
@Jakester - I imagine it was a very scary and traumatic experience for you, I hope you and your loved ones are all alright.
Posted by absinthebri
Appeal for bomb victims
Dozens of people have died and more than 700 were injured in four explosions across London on Thursday 7 July. The Mayor of London has established the London Bombings Relief Charitable Fund, in association with the British Red Cross, to raise money for the victims and their families.
The money raised will be held in a Trust and used to assist the victims of the attack, their immediate families and partners in a variety of ways. For example, they may be used to relieve sickness and disability, physical or mental, caused by the attack or to relieve financial needs. The money may also be used to support other appropriate projects that the funds allow.
The funds will be distributed by the Trustees of the London Bombings Relief Trust, who will be appointed by the Greater London Authority.
London Bombings Relief Charitable Fund is a charity.
http://www.redcross.org.uk//standard.asp?id=47805&cachefixer=
Posted by upper
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Posted by scotsboyuk
To be honest, as much as I find talk of politics in this thread to be a bad showing, I have to say that these terrorists really don't care about any issues other than hating the West. These people hate the Western way of life. They would use any convenient excuse to target those they see as enemies, whether it be Iraq, Palestine or American troops in Saudi Arabia. If America completely withdrew from Iraq tomorrow and pulled all of it's troops out of the Middle East and stopped aiding Israel, they would still find an excuse to attack us. They want to attack us. Don't think for a moment that they actually care about people's lives, they are quite happy to blow up innocent Iraqis as much as they are happy to blow up Americans.
The attacks on London were aimed at innocent people, not soldiers, not politicians or anyone actually connected with military or foriegn policies. They want an extreme form of Islam to dominate in the Middle East and then to spread to the rest of the world. They don't like ideas such as liberty, freedom of speech, democracy or religious freedom. They see the West as embodying all that they most despise and they try to kill innocents to spread fear and suffering.
Now I believe that there is an Iraq thread where people can continue to debate such issues. I linked to it earlier.
Posted by Ayush
@upper who do it in your opinion?
Posted by absinthebri
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I don't believe these terrorists hate the West or the Western way of life; they just hate.
They do want to attack us, not because we are us, but because they are them.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@absin
Whastever their reasons, we can agree upon the end result. The attacks on London were probably inevitable, just as more attacks on other cities are probably inevitable. Our world is changing and the attacks on London have once again reminded us of the shadow that looms over us.
If one looks to the attacks on London one can see that there was no way that the authorities could have completey guarded against such an event. The very nature of these attacks makes them difficult to intercept and stop.
What is needed from all is far less rhetoric, on both sides, and more thoughful actions, which actually address the problem.
Posted by axxxr
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Sorry mate but thats the biggest load of bullsh*t i have ever heard.If you really think these terrorists attack the west because they mearly hate the western way of life then you really do need to dig you head out of the sand.If that was the case the these terrorists or hard line muslims states would have been attacking the west long before The Iraq or Israeli conflicts...Before Israel all the muslims states lived in peace side by side until the U.K and the U.S messed with and played around with the middle east...The day the illegal state of Israel was created was the day the west brought it onto themselves the wrath of the middle east and its hardliners...Isreal has murdered hundreds upon thousands of Innocent Men,Women and Children since the creation Israel...Mostly with American made weapons and funding.That is why these So called terrorists come onto our land to get revenge not because our way life...Its called an "eye for an eye" ..You think we can send our vast armies onto their sovereign land break U.N resolutions and Murder their people and destroy their way of life...and you want them to love us....Wake up for F*cks sake!!..Its precisely this careless attitude we have to towards the muslim world that now this war has now come to our own doorsteps...You say they Kill innocent civilians with no remorse or regret what do you think our soildiers do over there?...hand out goody bags?..well they do only after shooting dead a few here and there all in the name peace and order...We in the west have to undertand that the muslim world works differently from us and we cannot impose our way of life onto them...Islam works differently to most other religions and the western way is simply incompatible with theirs..The bottom line is before i go one forever is that if you going to pick a unjust fight with someone then expect to be hit back!
Posted by upper
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Posted by scotsboyuk
@axxxr
There really is no need to use bad language and I don't really think this particualr thread is appropriate for such intense debate.
You have your opinions and that is fine. Having studied the history of this particualr subject for a number of years I am familiar with the issues and themes involved. The terrorists didn't attack the West before because the West was the lesser of two evils. Communism was a bigger threat to them than the West, indeed the West supported them. Now that their greatest foe is gone they turn to others. The history of the subject is easy to research and, with respect, your points seem to indicate either a deep seated bias or a lack of familiarity with that history.
I have absolutely no interest in debating any of these issues in this thread (or any other thread for that matter) and I do apologise to everyone for my part in the recent off-topic course of this thread.
Once again, there is a thread dealing with politico-religious issues, which you can find here.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-09 13:20 ]
Posted by Sammy_boy
All I know is that the Middle East has been a problem for the last 2,000 years at least, they were problems in that area in Biblical times, there were the crusades in that area in the 11/12th etc. centuries, and the current troubles.
And I wondered how long before the consipiracy theories started, we've already gone one person with something so 'secret' he can't post it - let me guess, it's the British secret service/CIA/the French?
I agree with scotsboy, this has gone a bit too far off topic, it is getting too political!
And degenerating into a flame war - best stop now, eh, before it gets locked?
Posted by slattery69
bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
Posted by absinthebri
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Where did you get the figure of 250,000 from?
Posted by axxxr
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I rarely use bad language but this subject really frustrates me because we in the west blame muslims and these countries and their religion for the all the problems that we are resonsible for..everything that is happening today is our own doing and not theirs...
I to do not want to make this thread into a political debate but if your going to make such unfair statements then you should expect a reply.
I don't think you need to be a genius to undertsand and know the history of the Middle east...even a fool knows how Israel was reated and dare i say who started the gulf wars...We have been seeing the histoy of the middle east being played out on the media day after day and has been doing so for the last 15 years...so you dont need a masters in political history to know this.
The so called terrorists did'nt attack us before is not because of the exsistence of communism its because we did'nt choose to pick a fight with them before..Why is it so difficult to understand such an easy for point?..Its baffles me how people blame these muslim states for the problems which mostly america has created...Whatever the situation we in the west better learn not poke our nose in mainly muslim states otherwise i fear we may have a situation we can no longer controle.
_________________
WARNING TO JAMBA
ONLY IF LIFE WAS THIS PERFECT
[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-09 13:35 ]
Posted by slattery69
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Posted by soulframe
@ scotsboyuk
Mate unfortunaltey neither of are mods (afaik) so as much we'd like people to stick to the topic at hand, it ain't gonna happen.
@ axxxr
People like you and me are labeled as nuts or conspiracy theorists, because the the majority of the planet have been brainwashed into believing those in power have no 'agenda' or alterior motive and that the media reports the 'truth'. Let the those who think they know it all beleive what they want to beleive. We try to educate them, get them open their eyes, read between the lines, but they won't listen. We should leave them to their fate, God please forgive them for their naivety and ignorance.
Yet again I totally agree with you mate but please for the respect of other users, lets continue this in another thread.
I think you should read the following: http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]cy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=249
and
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]full_story.asp?service_id=9212
@upper
I know what your talking about and you should read the following:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]full_story.asp?service_id=9212
P.s. sorry for all the spelling mistakes!
_________________
I've discovered the cure for hangovers! Don't drink!
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:44 ]
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:45 ]
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:45 ]
Posted by axxxr
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So that make it ok then for Bush & blair to go an murder 100,000's of innocent iraqis then does it?...To any sensible man this would seem like they were as bad as Saddam.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@axxxr
You will see from my earlier posts that I at no time blame any Muslim state nor do I seek to assign blame to any particualr religion or country. As I said, you are entitled to your opinions. As a historian I have to say that your statements seem to subectively ignore certain aspects of the history of this issue, which is why I would urge you to research the issue from both sides, but that is just my professional opinion.
As I have previously stated, I am not interested in debating this issue and quite frankly I don't know why it is being debated by anyone on a mobile phone website. There are dedicated political and/or religious forums on the internet that would probably have dedicated areas for such debate. I daresay that you, and anyone else wishing to discuss such matters, would probably find people wishing to take up such a debate there.
There is one that I am currently a member of, which you may like to take a look at. You can find it here.
Can this thread now be allowed to return to its original purpose of discussing the events in London?
Posted by slattery69
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are you unable to read where did i say that they where not a bad please point it out. all i was doing was bring some balance to it. people make it sound like the west just decided to bomb saddams happy little paridise were everyone was happy and there were no problems.
i have said many time i did nt agree with the war on iraq however neither did i agree with the way saddam treat his people. while he lived in gold palaces and drove around in the best western cars money could buy . i dislike any place were people do not have the freedom to chose who governs them or be able to speak freely.
this thread like many others on esato wouldnt be possible in certain parts of the world and that i find extremly sad
[ This Message was edited by: slattery69 on 2005-07-09 13:59 ]
Posted by axxxr
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What aspects might they be then i dare ask?...The fact that we started a illegle war with Iraq which was not sanctioned by the U.N and that this whole war was based on Lies and Deceit i.e: Fake Dosier,No WMD's,45 mins attack warning..Murdering their people for what exactly??...removing 1 man saddam??.I think that is a pretty solid and fair reason for the Iraqi's to attack us don't you think?
_________________
WARNING TO JAMBA
ONLY IF LIFE WAS THIS PERFECT
[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-09 13:58 ]
Posted by scotsboyuk
@axxxr
As I have said on two previous occassions in this thread, I am not going to debate the matter with you. First of all this thread is not the place for it and the author of the thread has specifically requested that people try to stay on-topic plus there is the fact that I have absolutely no interest in debating the issue anyway.
You should follow the link I posted earlier, there are people on that forum who will be quite happy to debate this with you.
Posted by axxxr
Thats fine and understandable that you no longer want to debate this here...However i was just trying to get into the finer details of how and what was responsible for the attacks in london.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@axxxr
Well the current thinking seems ot be that it could have been a small independent cell acting of its own violation. This is certainly very plausible and does not bode well for the interception of future atatcks I have to say.
Posted by upper
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well great job in doing that. as you guys no as after the 9/11 bush and blair were desperately trying to bring in the id cards for the NEW WORLD ORDER but fortunately they were unsuccessful, people thought it will invade there civil liberty and that the government will play big brother on the people of GB. so people what is the best way to make people crave for the id cards? for them to want the id cards? you no last week or 2 60% or more of british people rejected the idea of id cards that went up sharply 4 yrs later after the 9/11. so the best way for the british people to beg the government to bring in the id cards is to make another terorist attack like the 9/11 style in london. now i am sure that the people rejected the id cards before 7/7/05 will now fully want the id cards to be brought into place, but if they are smart they will no what bush or blair is upto.
lol i think i am going to get fried for this lol
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[ This Message was edited by: upper on 2005-07-09 21:46 ]
Posted by peeta
Charles Clark has said himself that he doesn't believe that i.d. cards would have prevented the attacks on thursday (which suprised me cos i was waiting for them to make the opposite statement...call me skeptical, cynical whatever)
Posted by upper
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_________________
PLEASE POST PICTURES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN WITH A PPC OR PPC PHONE & MICROSOFT SMARTPHONE.
www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=87720#post1181684
LET ME SHOW YOU: www.prisonplanet.net www.infowars.com
[ This Message was edited by: upper on 2005-07-09 18:00 ]
Posted by PeterKay
Big question for me is why is ISLAM the first to be blamed at all times when any terrorist/violent act occurs in the world today??
This is my opinion: ISLAM which means PEACE is officially the fastest growing religion in the world today, more non-muslims converted to ISLAM after 9/11 in America alone. "WHY" you may ask, well a few friends of mine in America told me that after 9/11 the public in America wanted to know more about this religion ISLAM that has been on the news daily, so they all went to the librarys and book stores and all started purchasing the ISLAMIC bible named the HOLY QURAN to find out exactly what is mentioned by GOD almighty. After reading the holy book many many Americans coverted to ISLAM.
The HOLY QURAN does no allow any MUSLIM to kill another Human/s as every human has a purpose for being created.
Another very important factor which the media hides from us all today is that when the TALIBAN captured the BBC reporter Yvonne Ridley after 9/11, the british media said that the Taliban treated her very badly and when she was released her name was no longer mentioned, question is WHY!! Well, the reason is because wen she was released she was told by the Taliban to read about ISLAM and the HOLY QURAN, after doing this she officially converted to Islam and now presents on Islam Channel on Sky TV channel 836.
My point is that Islam is today the most misunderstood religion today because of the media but the truth is that it is the most peaceful religion.
Read about Islam, Read what the HOLY QURAN tries to explain to us and then judge for yourselves what is right and wrong.
[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-07-09 18:11 ]
Posted by soulframe
@ Peterkay
VERY WELL SAID
Now if more people educated themselves like that we wouldn't have all these rash judgements.
People, do you self favours, put down the The Sun newspaper, switch off Fox News and try and see things from a different perspective.
Remember most of the western media tend to present the negative aspect of Islam. Ask yourselves this: when has Islam appeared in the news been about something positive eh?
One more thing these 'terrorists' (if they even exsist) do not represent Islam in no way or form. They are just using it as an excuse. Trust me it's all political
Posted by PeterKay
Totally true, if the media had no influence ISLAM would not be accused in any way or form. ISLAM and the word TERRORISM do not go together in reality. The media have put them together for a reason that only they know!
People should stop listening to the media and judge for themselves who is to blame. Research on what ISLAM says and then judge for yourselves what is the truth.
Posted by axxxr
PeterKay and Soulframe i applaud and Salute you guys for your excellent posts.
But their still are those people who will not want to know the truth and still lable Islam and Muslims as evil because the hatred they have for muslims and islam is so intense and so deep rooted that they cannot see beyond it...Only a miricle can change the minds of these ignorant and shallow people.
Posted by peeta
most religions preach peace but those who follow it interpret it for their own ends. Bush is a christian but does that mean he's a man of peace? hmm let me think for like a micro-second about that one.
Posted by slattery69
i agree ive studied many religions over the years particularly islam which i know quite a bt about and i agree more people should undersatnd it.
likewise i wish some of the terrorist who aint muslim in anyway shape or form would take the time to learn abit more about our culture.
Posted by PeterKay
Just echoing all the above 4 posts, totally true and we can only wish that all humans can see thru this horrific term and see thru this media and so called intelligence.
Nobody is perfect but all we need to remember is that ISLAM does not tolerate TERRORISM and that is a fact. Read the HOLY QURAN and see for yourselves.
_________________
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"Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed"
[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-07-09 19:16 ]
Posted by absinthebri
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A link would be handy. I've looked through a couple of dozen UN pages on Iraq and I can't find any figures.
Posted by shelly58
hi.... well i not interested in the whys....hows or anything... all i want to say is my heart goes out to the people who in someway has been affected by what happened in london....xx
Posted by PeterKay
True, our thoughts at this moment are with the families and friends of the innocent people who have been killed and injured.
Posted by lazn
dear mr.kay ... i have to say some thing ....you don't know what you're saying !!!!! let me tell you some thing ...
when i been to israel ... i stayed there for 3 months ( i got to make a living ... )
any way .... the word TERRORISM ISLAM are almost the same thing
you don't know what is a real terror !!!!!
i was walking down the street & 300 meters from me a bus exploded !!
42 pplz died ... there were hands guts legs & other orgins every where !!!
that was a horror !!!! i went to help other pplz untill the authorities came ... i couldn't eat for two weeks & i always felt of this ... no body knows what is really happening in isreal .... the press is all the time blame the israelis ...
ps.
i am not a jew & not an israeli ... i am just saying what i ve' experienced
Posted by lazn
& another thing .... i studied the islam myself ... & i undestood that they will terrorise this entire world untill the other religions will convert them selves !!!
Posted by absinthebri
I went to the vigil at Freinds House in memory of the victims this afternoon.
We held 2 minutes silence.
We congratulated the sterling work of all the public service employees involved - ambulance crew, fire-fighters, police, Underground staff, etc.
We called for respect for all communities.
Posted by lazn
i wish we could have peace !!! but there will be no peace, only if the 3rd world war will kick in ... very sad but true !!
Posted by peeta
Atrocities have been commited on both sides (a lot more inflicted by the israeli leaders with american support) personal experience shouldn't blind you to those FACTS.
Posted by PeterKay
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OK, i agree with what you are saying, but try and understand what i said in my thread.
ISLAM does not allow terrorism, the people doing all the killing are not MUSLIMS as they are not following what the QURAN states. This is what the misconception is today. ISLAM does not allow terrorism at all. A Muslim must follow what their religion states. These killers are giving the religion a bad name and the religion is not like that.
If you want facts about Palestine and Israel, check this site out