Posted by mrao
@whizz..i think you havent got it entirely in the right perspective...it is a known and pretty evident fact that noobs may not be aware of the search function...more importantly, of where to look for an answer...but i feel the issue is more about people who have been around long enough to not be classified as noobs, a) creating whimsical threads and
b) posting in genuine ones for the heck of it
Posted by scotsboyuk
There is also the point to be made that the search is next to useless as far as many are concerned. Improving the search would be a step in the right direction.
Posted by masseur
...and of course this is a point I totally disagree with. It used to be pretty bad until laffen introduced a whole new search facility which has made things so much better than it was and I have yet to fail at finding a thread I am looking for
before we go around in circles I will agree once more that it would be useful to be able to deselct the non mobile forums from the search
Posted by whizkidd
Mrao, you got me wrong there mate. What i said only applies to newbies. And read my last post again. My first word is that i agree! The only part where i disagree is the newbie part. What use is a forum if the newbie isn't looked after well and his doubts not cleared? I see some sort of intolerant behaviour towards noobs of late. One example is that recent thread by this guy called xtremitz in the regional section. The first reply to his post is "get lost!!"
Posted by scotsboyuk
@masseur
That would be a good idea. I also rather wonder about the possibility of integrating the search more closely with the forums. For example, could an improved search feature be included at the top of threads? This might prompt members to use the feature more.
Incidenatlly masseur, and with respect, not everyone finds the search to be as good at turning up results as you do (pardon my awful pun
).
Posted by dave_uk
@masseur
Although you are able to get the results that you are looking for, the fact that this complaint comes up so often surely indicates that the search could do with improvement. After all, shouldn't it's usefulness be judged on how easy it is for those with less than 10,000 posts to use? It certainly seems a valid point given the number of people that conspicuously fail to use it properly (if at all!)
Personally, I don't find it too bad either, but I do acknowledge that the guage of the size of the problem is how widespread the effect is.
Posted by masseur
I personally think its simply a problem of people not reading the search tips and practising a little to best utilise the search criteria given the amount of posts we have and therefore the possible number of results
the same applies in lesser way to google and ebay searches in which you can receive many many useless results unless you are careful in your choice of selection criteria
indeed, as has often been mentioned, you can even use google to search Esato if you prefer their search mechanism so there is no real excuse. I use this myself from time to time for particularly tricky searches
Posted by vanquish
Furthermore, if you are on WAP the search function is not the most ideal.
What would be ideal is simple, a search that you can narrow down to sentences, and specific forums. I use the search alot now, to dig up old dead threads that are a good read, a good laugh too.
I think Esato will inevitably change, as more people move into technology and more younger kids get phones and discover us whilst looking for Britney Spears themes (not that I have ever searched for her
) so we must be flexible. We can't have a rigid posting structure that everyone must abide to but it would help if noobs were informed of the 'best way to be in scotsboyuk's good books' manual, which he could create 
and... oh yes, BobaFett's 'How to be an Ericssonist' and masseur's 'getting along with the mods by using the search effectively'
I think we should just kindly welcome peoples comments about our posting and use them in a positive way. Furthermore, i think it is wrong that one, no matter how old or how many posts they have/are, should judge and look upon others just because they use abbreviated 'texting' words in posts or because they fail to use the search a couple of times. We shouldn't be judgemental nor rude, just polite, and offer them help and advice to using the search and getting along.
I also think that these pathetic new threads that are created just for fame and 'being different' like 'Sony Ericsson aren't innovative' etc. are a waste of time. Me and scotsboyuk did the 'Sony Ericsson are rubbish' as a test, to see how many maniacs we really do have on Esato
_________________
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The proud owner of a Champagne
Z800i!
[ This Message was edited by: vanquish on 2005-05-24 18:15 ]
Posted by dave_uk
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Good point, so I suppose that renders this search engine irrelevant really. I guess there really isn't any way of knowing whether people re-post existing topics because they don't use the search or don't know what they're looking for..?
Posted by whizkidd
I have also came across quite a few threads where a noob asks "how do i find out my phones firmware?" the next reply he gets is "read the faq section its there!" But people fail to notice that many guys are on wap who can't see the sticky threads. I don't think such kinda thread do any harm. Just tell him how to do it. And lock the thread. Keep it there for two days and then delete it.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@vanquish
I may just do that!
@masseur
The search is only one facet and the abilty to search specific forums another, but perhaps more attention could be given to deleting some threads? As I said earlier, a 'clean-up' of Esato wouldn't go amiss.
Posted by Wuz
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I agree entirely with Gowin.
Esato evloves and whilst it offers so much will always appeal to different people in different ways.
I truly believe this whole thread is misguided, albeit well-intentioned.
[ This Message was edited by: Wuz on 2005-05-24 18:16 ]
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Wuz
I don't agree with GOwin, mainly because it is attempting to use a philosophical argument to counter practical problems. As I said, we can either keep spinning platitudes and telling ourselves such things as GOwin said, or we can actually rise to the challenge of doing something about those problems.
Personally I would prefer to do something about them. I have already suggested several courses of action that could be taken. We debate such things endlessly, yet nothing ever seems to get done. I think the number of replies this thread has received from people agreeing with me, along with those in fijbert's thread speaks volumes. I would also draw your attention to the number of views this thread has received, rather a lot within a short space of time for such a thread.
Posted by masseur
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but where to start? I suppose we could get rid of all threads currently in garbage but that will surely upset some members. Indeed, since newer members tend not to venture there until they are more comfortable with Esato, it will probably only upset the members who have been here longer and whom therefore are the ones who want Esato to be the way it was. Whatever we do, or don't do, we will upset someone either because there is too much that should be removed or because we have removed too much of the fun element of esato. its a no win situation for the moderators and/or for the members. I know last year I tried to halt the number of garbage posts and ended up receiving quite a few PMs asking why I was stopping the fun!
Indeed when I first came here I recall that some of the members you mentioned in your early posts of this thread used to thrive on having 20 consecutive posts in garbage with their username showing as the last poster of each thread. its was a garbage king competition. I'm sure thats not the Esato that we want back
I do feel that GOwin has summed it up very well and in some ways agrees with my early posts that Esato is a fluid, always changing place which is what the members make it. Indeed as I mention in my brief history of the garbage forums above, that was where many of the older members enjoyed their fun on Esato and thus thats what they made of it at that time. Although you describe his reply as philiosphical rather than practical it is actually exactly what he describes that makes esato what it is at any given moment in time and we cannot possibly control and restrict the actions of every new member that come here each day.
where's the fun in that?
I'm personally happy with the threads we lock or move and generally handle things we don't feel are quite in Esato's best interests and indeed just today, for example, I have removed no less than 8 posts and asked the members to repost on existing threads (mostly K750 related in fact) which they happily did
finally (well, for this post anyway
) I can only repeat that I rarely receive complaints about the topic being discussed here, instead it seems to be down to a handful (only) of our membership to complain and discuss in threads like this once or twice a year
my suggestion is that if Esato forums are not your cup of tea then take a break and come back later and hopefully it will be all fresh for you as it was for me when I did this exact thing recently
Posted by tranquil
@Masseur
Dig out the topic where I brag about the strength of my T68i when I was in Spain a few years back.
Posted by masseur
um, this one?
Posted by tranquil
Yep
Posted by masseur
1 minute if I am not very much mistaken
Posted by tranquil
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Posted by whizkidd
Ok. Now tell us how did you search it! What keywords you put in? I guess we need another Faq section titled "how to use the esato search"
Posted by masseur
no FAQ required. I do nothing more and nothing less than the tips offered on he search page. these are
By default, the search engine will find the most relevant post to the search term. Just like Google do. But you may want to be more spesific and use some of these operators:
+ A leading plus sign indicates that this word must be present in every post returned.
- A leading minus sign indicates that this word must not be present in any post returned.
* An asterisk is the truncation operator. Unlike the other operators, it should be appended to the word, not prepended.
" The phrase, that is enclosed in double quotes ", matches only rows that contain this phrase literally, as it was typed.
Examples:
apple banana - find posts that contain at least one of these words.
+apple +juice - find posts that contain both words.
+apple -macintosh - find posts that contain the word "apple" but not "macintosh"
apple* - find "apple", "apples", "applet".
"some words" - find "some words of wisdom", but not "some noise words".
Posted by vanquish
You could be good on a buzzer quiz show!
Posted by whizkidd
@masseur, to be honest, i never knew these things!...mainly because i used to post through wml and never came across these instructions and because i've never really used the search facility on html thinking it was crap anyway!
Posted by govigov
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yup that was me.
well mate, the reason was that he created soo many, close to 3 about a p800 he was selling in almost all the esato sections.. i PM'd him about that and that i was intersted in his sale. he then created three or four more threads for selling his p800. moreover whiz, such kinda threads just result in unwanted fighting... we all love our nation, but proclaiming it out loud that we are the greatest also implies that we are thinking lowly of other nations... that simply is an unwanted thread. if he has enuf sense to open a thread in regional forums, he should have definitely seen our thread... he is simply an unwanted passerby who will never return... if ppl are genuine in their doubts they would have asked it straight forward.... i honestly dont like those threads proclaimng that our nation is the greatest. you should also note that none of the esato global community has ever created a "say high of my nation thread" .
i should also add that, i have helped a lot and are still helping ppl out with their queries... i dont post as often as i used simply because my time does not permit me to do so.
esato still holds the charm that it had, may be it has decreased a little, but then, i have come to know thgat i simply miss this site soo much that i had to keep coming back...
i think this is just a phase that every site has to go thru. once the phones and firmwares are out, ppl will have more genuine doubts and reasons to discuss. right now, there is a lull in the products and then we have pretty much exhauted everything about the current line. only once the new phone (read clara) hits the shelf in full force we can have more genuine threads discussing threads.
one thing i wud like to say to the mods, is that yup we do like a couple of joke in threads. but let dont let it take over the thread. may be you can delete posts that are just jokes without actually contributing to the thread. only jokes that can be slipp'd in with the main content of the thread be allowed, atleast for a few days so that things settle for the moment and then maintain that state....
Posted by whizkidd
Gov...if you feel a newbie is spamming, you have a better option to report to the mods who can warn him and take necessary steps. Whatever his intentions may be, a term like "get lost" doesn't fit in here! And do you think all people are similar? Some are completely new to online communities and are unsure of how to behave. Just ignore them!
Posted by Wuz
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Scotsbouyuk -can you not see that infact the exact opoosite is the case?
It IS a philisophiocal arguement. It has to be. Afterall Esato, represents different things to different people.
It is you who is trying to attribute practical problems to a notional debate. Thats why you will find it impossible to gain a consensus on any one point. There is no right or wrong.
Respectfully
Wuz
Posted by scotsboyuk
Philosophical arguments are all very well when one has both the time and the luxury to afford them. I do not see the relevance of philosophical debate here; I see practical problems that could have practical solutions. I am but one member in a vast ocean of members; I alone cannot do what is needed nor can I impose my views upon others nor would I wish such a thing.
Esato is supposed to be a Sony Ericsson mobile phone forum, that is supposed to be its primary function. It was a place to discuss Sony Ericsson products along with those of other manufacturers with some general chat thrown in for good measure. There was fun and there was laughter. The balance that once existed is gone and I have tried my best to correct that. I have failed.
I have mentioned nothing about right or wrong, merely offered an opinion. My views on the matter are shared by others and still others again disagree with me. I would ask that you do not think of me as having created this thread to insult or attack, merely to try, perchance to hope. I have done what I felt was right and I thank you all, for both your time and your patience.
Posted by Caspa
"Ahh, the good ol' days of telecommunication..."
Posted by GOwin
Aren't we?
(Google ranks Esato second for "Sony Ericsson forum")
Last time I checked (a few second before I posted this), you were describing Esato exactly as it is now.
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Esato is supposed to be a Sony Ericsson mobile phone forum, that is supposed to be its primary function. It was a place to discuss Sony Ericsson products along with those of other manufacturers with some general chat thrown in for good measure. There was fun and there was laughter. |
The only thing constant in this world is change. We can't stop that. Esato is not exempted from that.
I still remember the "old Esato". But there is no way I can turn back the time and return to the Esato when most users know what they're talking about, no members littering the threads with useless one-liners or animated smilies, members willing to extend whatever help they can.
People didn't care about post counts (well, there were some of those, and I remember some threatening Laffen about them leaving Esato if some changes were not done - no changes were made, and eventually, they went back.)
You shouldn't think that you've failed. This thread has served a useful purpose. Treshing out ideas, getting feedback from members about how they perceive Esato, and most of all, gave some users something to look forward to reading when they log back. (Have you seen the view count of this thread?)
Dewa sonouchi ni
[ This Message was edited by: GOwin on 2005-05-25 02:55 ]
Posted by Caspa
I agree, its an ever changing community... and one where all have a voice...
Think of it like a company, once it gets past a certain size it loses something, that 'spark' is watered down due to size...
Its all the hard work put in by the Mods that keeps this place on my 'Favorites' and continues my connection with the telecommunications industry, market and news...
Feel like breaking into a 'do you remember when' or 'back in 2001' sentance...
Posted by Wuz
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I don't think that for one moment, scotsboyuk. I have no problem with this thread being here at all. Infact, I tend to agree with Gowin, in that its useful to air views and to analyse and this thread most certainly does that.
I also don't think you've failed in anayway. I just think that the premis behind what you are trying to do, misunderstands the nature of an evolving entity. Also, either you allow non related phone discussions or you don't. There is no room for the 'correct' balance you wish so hard to strive for.
Predicition = Esato will be here next year and for many after that (providing SE continues to exist) and this thread will be repeated in silimar guises by others right down the line. However, as long as I can feel reasonably assured that someone will answer my phone related questions (100% to date) and I can find out useful/interesting info (I do whenever I visit the site), then I'll keep returning.
Posted by GOwin
And now, a thought from master Yoda:
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Always in motion is the future. |
Posted by *Jojo*
What's wrong with Esato?
Then, what ELSE but it's - 60K ++ members !
Posted by carkitter
I've posted over 100 posts but have not as yet felt the need to start a thread. This because there is already a thread on every concievable topic.
I have revived some old threads using the search rather than starting a new thread on the same topic.
I have considered starting a Carkit Advice thread but with the small amount of traffic I suspect it would get, it would soon disapear from the top of the pile and not be uncovered by the newbies who need it.
Therefore I regularly scan the Accessories Forum and reply to the threads that do appear. I also welcome PM's on the subject.
Posted by whizkidd
where's scots?? Haven't seen him around of late.
_________________ :evil: I'm very angry....really very angry today.. 
[ This Message was edited by: whizkidd on 2005-05-28 12:32 ]
Posted by jenbones
If you want to improve this, get all the mods to delete the threads that are ALWAYS asked, and then somebody(older members or mods whatever it may be!!) PM them a link to a previously asked post, once we all get this system going it will be easier, more older members will benefit out of this, and there will be more people to answer the newbies questions!!
On the other hand, what i find irritating about esato is starting a new topic when you have to go into a previous topid and then go to the bottom then choose "new topic" if there was a simple "new topic" button at the bottom of each forum section page, it will be so much easier. Otherwise i love esato and there is nothing better for mobiles than esato, whether it's info, screensavers and 3gp vids, just to talk, to get some cheap accesories or phone, ESATO IS THE BEST
AMEN...
Ben
Posted by bonito99
Streamlining wouldn't hurt.
Posted by +myboo+
i dont have any problems w/ esato...
you just lack understanding....
understanding that esato mods cant handle all of those problems...
Posted by vanquish
My old friend has boogered off...