Posted by BlackBauer24
Hey guys and gals, just wondering how many Christians use this forum besides myself? feel free to share experiences as christians, for example what you've had to overcome in order to pursue a christian life style, dont be shy now speak on up folks.
Posted by BobaFett
However i was grewn up like a good christian, dont believe in god, more in myself.
Posted by coolapostle
Hey I am in. But no arguments! :-D
Posted by coolapostle
@Black we really need to pray for this thread to stay on topic! :-D
Posted by OluYom
I have not only been a believer for over 11 years, I also pastor a vibrant Bible church. Its been 11 years of no regrets about my faith. I live by it and will gladly die for it. Of course, I'd NEVER kill for it
This message was posted from a P800
[ This Message was edited by: AYA on 2004-11-15 07:45 ]
Posted by BobaFett
I accept a higher inteligance, a kind of power, but cant accept to manifestate it in a person.
Posted by tranquil
I've had to do a fair bit of editing here.
Please stay on topic from now on.
I grew up in a good christian home and have my childhood belief as a good foundation for moral. My parents were officers in the Salvation Army and I'm proud of what I was given to me as a child.
This might be the reason why I'm allways left to keep an eye on topics like this
_________________
Tranquil
Esato Shop
[ This Message was edited by: tranquil on 2004-11-10 20:29 ]
Posted by SnowBear
what is this .. the first thing i said in this thred was on topic.. still itīs removed
So sad that one canīt speek up like BlackBauer24 wanted to ..
Posted by maddav
OK, I'll guess I'll leave out the Paradise Lost quotes out then.
I'm a Roman Catholic
(btw. when i said before, 'open-minded', that referred to me not being a fundamentalist catholic, nothing else, sorry if it was taken the wrong way)
Posted by BobaFett
Faith is a very interestin thing. The film, contact, with jodey foster is worth to watch, i just can recomend it.
Posted by BlackBauer24
Hey guys and gals, just wondering how many Christians use this forum besides myself? feel free to share experiences as christians, for example what you've had to overcome in order to pursue a christian life style, dont be shy now speak on up folks.
Posted by maddav
Also, I can't recommend it myself, but all my friends say that "The DaVinci Code" is a must read book regarding theological ideas. I bought it yesterday, but my dad's going to Cyprus and is 'borrowing' it for 2 weeks
Posted by maddav
Well I went to a Catholic primary school, and am currently attending a Catholic VI Form centre, I also live about 30 secs from a Church of England church, and a Catholic church - another 5 mins away. Personally I have had no problems with being catholic thus far in my life (as far as I can remember), as my whole family is strongly Catholic too.
( Not a very interesting story
)
_________________
This message was posted from a coconut
[ This Message was edited by: maddav on 2004-11-10 22:48 ]
Posted by tranquil
I'm sorry if I stepped on anyones feet by deleting a few replies, but they were easily taken the wrong way.
All I'm after is to let topics like this live but they usually end up getting way too hot for an international forum like Esato.
As long as we all manage to respect each others views on faith...
Posted by maddav
No problems mate, i really shouldn't have paraphrased from the book, that and use ambigious language. My Bad
Posted by BlackBauer24
I hope that we can all share our personal experiences both positive and negative ones, Christian and non-Christian without getting to personal or offending anyone as this is not the intention of my thread thanx guys.
Posted by axxxr
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Contact is one of my favourite films...really gives you food for thought!
Posted by kimcheeboi
hmmm i grew up in a super-conservative christian family... i wonder why i turned out the way i did
Posted by Yaesu
grew up in a very strong christian environment and to be honest because it was forced on to me so heavily it kind of turned me off religion all together
Posted by kimcheeboi
maybe that's the case for me, too 
Posted by BlackBauer24
When growing up i was'nt interested in church much, and even though my parents were Christians they never forced it on me, it was only later on in my life that i began to seriously think about God and giving my life to the Lord, think about this for a moment, everything we own in this world has been created by someone with intelligence, and i believe that we were all created by a far more superior intelligence known as God, because if something as basic as a TV has an instuction manual for us to learn how to perform its most basic and complex functions properly then surely we as human beings must have instruction manuals too, indeed a perfect example is the BIBLE. (basic instructions before leaving earth)
Posted by PIANOSSO
Indeed. Never knew about what B.I.B.L.E. means. Also i grew up in a protestant family, although I needed to be a bit more mature to make my decision 4 CHRIST.
Posted by Sir-SonyEricsson-man
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I think there are allready a lot of this topics so i reallt hope it will stay on topic this time..
About myself, im christ, and i think there is something who mad all this, but like it says in the bible: Do not make a picture out of god.
I belive more in what i see than pray to something what really not helps me..
Posted by absinthebri
A question for you all. I'm genuinely interested in your views and this isn't an attempt to flame... Do you think someone who shares the values of George W. Bush displays the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23)?
Posted by Sir-SonyEricsson-man
i think every leader of a country is using the word "God" a lot too much. what has god to do when 2 people dont like each other, or make a war??
Its a shame that bin laden says in name of god we have to kill all americans. as the same what bush says, in name of god we have to get every terrorist.
I'm not meaning to flam her. But i think they are using "god" to the wrong things..
Posted by PIANOSSO
What's faith according to the bible? Lots and lots of people claim that they're christians, but their lifestyle andmutual convictions are far far away from what the bible teaches us. What would you think about a "christian" basing his trust more on himself than on GOD's power?
Posted by vanquish
hello - been going to church ever since i was born (and even when i wasnt
)
i am a christian, and believe in god, and to answer your question bb24 i do find it hard to speak up.
and being a christian, i do sometimes swear and say rude things on esato
but the worst thing with sony ericsson and being a christian is my dad always makes me think about a phone, and make sure i dont get too excited so that it distracts me from god. thankfully though, he has ordered my k700i
Posted by PIANOSSO
@absLiterally, no. But you are very close to a big mistake. Never compare yourself with a man, wether you think he does the right thing or not. GOD's will is often not logicall in human terms. He also is known to do HIS work thru people. So don't judge bush, but if you really care, pray for him, for GOD to enlighten his mind and ways.
Posted by absinthebri
I was careful to say someone like Bush. Obviously I have no idea what God's plans for are and I'm certainly in no position to say whether someone has faith or not.
Posted by BlackBauer24
@ vanquish unfortunately we all have our bad habits my friend, we just need to be able to indentify them before we can try to kick them, however its not always that easy and takes will power and constant prayer.
Posted by blackspot
I'm a catholic, was brought up that way, and still am. I have to say though that religion should not be a basis of a person's moral standing. IMO, it should only guide you to exercise your free will properly. In the end it's how you live your life and how you affect others that really matters.
What really annoys me is when people start using religion to justify their political or material motives. It's just too messy. I'm not trying to preach either, coz I'm probably the least qualified to do that. I just thought how wise and practical it was when Jesus said "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's and give to God what is God's".
Posted by Neekos
Greetings to you all.
A few people have offered views concerning Bush and political leaders in general, and it is fair to say that God does use leaders to fulfil his will regarding the course of world events. However, it is important to stand up for truth, regardless of whether we may feel a leader is being used by God or not. In the OT, Nathan the prophet spoke out against King David for his sin with Bathsheba; Samuel spoke out against Saul when he went to war with the Amalekites and didn't follow God's instructions fully, even though God told him to go to war.
I also agree that the word "God" is used quite a bit by leaders to justify their stance on certain views, whether or not they truly have a relationship with the Lord. I'll have to leave them to sort that out with the Lord themselves. I have to remember that I need to be consistent, honest and dedicated in my relationship with Jesus, even though I offer comment on other issues.
I've been a Christian for over 20 years and came to know Jesus for myself just before my 14th birthday. I was baptised when I fully knew what I was committing myself to, even though I was relatively young. I thank my mother for this as I was never put under any pressure to give my life to Jesus. If I had been, I wouldn't be here now. It has not been any easy time by any means, but I am fully convinced of what Jesus has done in my life and intend to continue until He returns. I'm not perfect and would never claim to be. My "righteousness" lies in Jesus righteousness, not in myself. Each day I overcome, I give Him thanks. When I fail, I ask for His forgiveness, get up, and walk on.
I would like to offer encouragement to those who are Christians to keep holding on. Jesus will never leave us or forsake us.
God bless.
P.S. Thanks to Blackbauer24, who is my close personal friend, for starting this thread. Let's keep brushing the dirt off our shoulders bredrin!!
[ This Message was edited by: Neekos on 2004-11-12 08:49 ]
[ This Message was edited by: neekos on 2004-11-12 08:50 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Neekos on 2004-11-12 15:26 ]
Posted by OluYom
Talking of christaian experiences, after I exercised my will to live for the Lord, I had to deal with habits I had built up over 19 years. That took discipline and commitment.
Some of them are thoroughly in my past now. Yet, there are a few I still have to constantly work on - meditating in God's Word and trusting in His ability to change anyone. I am definitely a better person for it.
I live in an environment where almost no-one is bothered with doing the right things, but walking with the Lord has helped me stay on course. Believe me, I have made mistakes - plenty! To an onlooker, I must have looked like someone acting against his faith at the time, but I am consoled that I know it was a slip, and I do not live that way daily.
Posted by BlackBauer24
Truly Iife presents us with many challenges, but we can try and help each other through, by Gods grace.
Posted by Neekos
Greetings @Aya.
Your testimony and experiences are similar to mine, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of Christians out there.
One of the issues that has caused problems over the history of Christianity is that Christians (not all) have made themselves out to be "perfect" people and have looked down on non-Christians in a very "holier-than-thou" way, even though they may not actually be living the life. This has caused non-Christians to feel alienated at times, and has also caused other Christians who are struggling with issues to feel they are not able to share their problems and find support and help to overcome. The church was created to be a community where we can find help and support in our deepest problems. One should not have to feel embarassed or feel unsure about being able to share a problem with another brother or sister, or feel they will be looked down upon or scorned if they confess a fault. The Bible encourages us to share our faults and pray for each other. This is the church Jesus wants.
Keep striving my friend. We are able to succeed. One thing I know when looking at the Bible is that all those people who were used by God, were not perfect in themselves. They all had faults and issues in themselves. But they were faithful and allowed God to use them. Remember, the only hero in the Bible is Jesus. Every human fall short. But we succeed through Jesus.
God's blessing to all.
[ This Message was edited by: Neekos on 2004-11-15 10:46 ]
Posted by OluYom
@Neekos & Blackbeaur24. Very well said. Our own attitudes towards other christians with problems, and towards non-christians seem to be our greatest problem in the Church.
We need to deal with that so much. Look at David, Solomon, Elijah, Peter, Paul, John: these were all people with imperfections but firmly trusting in the perfect One, and believing in who they are and what they can be if they continued steadfast.
I am amazed at Jesus. People felt comfortable around him. By 'people', I mean 'sinners'. He loved them so, and did not hold aloof from any. His love was so powerful it changed them. And its changed me too! Glory!! (Hope I don't sound like I'm preaching
)
Posted by Neekos
@Aya,
You're not preaching my friend, you're just giving glory to God. There's nothing wrong with that!!
Posted by fetzi
Nevertheless giving glory to god in this kind of declamatory way often frightens non-christians..
Even though Iīm happy in my belief, and not liking the 'first world' getting rid of any religious roots because 'thereīs no need for god' I prefer the way of live and let live and not calling anybody a 'sinner'..
(I know nobody around here would offend anybody because of the personal religion, but talking religiously is kind of walking on the razorīs edge).
Posted by OluYom
@fetzi: Forgive me if my reference to the term 'sinners' offends you. I did not mean it in a derogratory way. Unfortunately, there is no pleasant alternative to that term that Iam aware of. Jesus used the term. All the apostles used it.
Uhm... I am not exactly sure where the lines are drawn in this kind of thread, but since its a christian term I expect that it should be acceptable in a thread that discusses the christian way.
I'd be glad to hear from Tranquil or any other moderator so we can clear that up. I will gladly edit my post to stay within the boundaries guiding the thread. No offence meant, mate
Posted by fetzi
Just like I said - neither did I intend to reprehend or advise you!
Itīs really difficult to discuss religiously if one tries not to offend anybody.
Posted by deeone
I'm glad 4 dis thread and I am proud to say that I'm a believer in Jesus and don't have any shame.
Posted by Neekos
Hi all.
I'm just offerring my view on what has been recently said. I don't wish to offend anyone and I'm not offended by what has been said. I enjoy this thread and have been challenged in a positive way by some of the views posted here.
I can see how it may be difficult not to offend when speaking "religiously". I suppose it has to be weighed up against the freedom to express oneself as a Christian in a thread like this. Thanking God for changing your life is a positive thing, even though it could possibly offend. I suppose we need to weigh up how strongly we feel about what we are expressing in such a thread. I try not to use "religious" language because I know it probably doesn't make sense to someone who is not a Christian. But if we explain ourselves it can help to remove any offence that may be taken.
God's blessings to you all.
_________________
Neekos
[ This Message was edited by: Neekos on 2004-11-15 23:26 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Neekos on 2004-11-15 23:27 ]
Posted by Sammy_boy
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Therein lies the problem with religion. I'd be more for faith than religion - the problem is holy books can be interpreted in many ways. I'm afraid to say I'm not religious, I'm far too cynical a person to belive in one 'perfect' being. I won't go any further as I don't want to start a flame war here.
HOWEVER..... I wish I was more spiritual - I've seen how other countries that are still into their religion - Greek islands and Orthodox catholics, and places like Gozo. People there still have a lot of faith, and the community spirit is great - and people are so much nicer to each other, and the family is still paramount.
Posted by kimcheeboi
I, too, feel I'm too cynical to believe in a heaven and a God. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'd like to bring up something that is always on my mind when I'm discussing Christianity.
First of all, we must agree that the Bible is the central pillar of Christianity; it is considered the Word of God on earth, divinely inspired and we should try to abide by it as much as we can. But what if the Bible is unreliable?
What i mean is that the Bible as a document is in itself unreliable. Since the founding of the early church its been continuously edited and changed to suit what the Church thought would suit themselves best.
There are 66 books in the official Bible, but its a fact that there are many many more different books than the 66 we hear of every day. For example: the Dead Sea Scrolls were recently discovered, revealing many books that the early Church left out of the Bible. We are not reading the works of King David, of Solomon, of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John--we are reading what the Pope thought would suit his needs best. I mean, this book has been manipulated so much to political ends that everything it says cannot possibly be trusted.
And honestly, when you read the Bible objectively, what else comes to mind that the Book of Virtues I'm sure we all read as kids? It's almsot like a storybook telling us what should be done and what not; the Bible is not a history book because a history book's purpose is to recount past events without assigning meaning to them (the reader does that).
How am i to trust a biased, unreliable storybook then?
Whew thats it for now, sorry if not totally coherent
Posted by PIANOSSO
@kimIt's true that's hard to trust it, judging it only by logicall human means. You say 'It's not unreliable' based on you doubts. But what if It's genuine? Of course, man had influence it, yet i know people that sincerely trusted it, and 'the word of GOD' changed their lifes. Yes, these people can be considered. Ignorants, as they weren't interested in whether the bible It's reliable or not. They simply took it as it is, trying to understand it with their heart, not w/ their mind. This is not crazy!
Posted by kimcheeboi
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First of all, im saying that it's unreliable
How can we say that the Bible is reliable if it's been edited to suit the needs of people like Pope Alexander (Cesare Borgia, anyone?) and the Spanish Inquisitors?
And how do you have people who follow the Bible but don't read it? It's like telling me to live my life by a doctrine when I have no idea what its about!
Does believing in something make you right? Maybe to you, but I'm sure you consider peoples of other religions to be wrong. But they believe what they do! So they're right and you're wrong? Or what?
After all, faith and religion is about choosing your path; and I'm sure you will agree with me that anyone who blindly follows any religion 'just because' is a fool.
Posted by PIANOSSO
...crazy. It's a honest wish to find GOD. Although this is not a secret, a lot of people don't know that GOD reveal Himself to whoever looks sincerely to find Him. It's written in the Bible, for the ones who believe it...
Posted by kimcheeboi
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But you base all your premises upon evidence from the Bible.
I believe I've raised some valid points about the reliability of the Bible, but you dismiss it as crazy? First please explain to me why my argument is not valid, and then we can discuss the process of finding God.
Is it also not possible to be decieved or wrong? I know many people had a sincere wish to create a utopian society simliar to one envisioned in the Bible; and they created something called Communism. They believed it would work, but they created a totalitarian state.
Posted by PIANOSSO
@kim. Sorry you got me wrong. I meant people who read it and believe it, of course. I don't getthis: people believe what they do? They rather do what they believe.(think It's right) And yes, That's what makes a human 'good' or 'bad'. Believing in something .just because' isn't faith. It's only conviction! Faith is something that works, that has effects on your life, just the way you wanted it to be. For you, this real faith is not logical. Please read HEBREW chapter 11, the new testament.
Posted by kimcheeboi
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People do what they believe and its not necessarily right. Just because you believe something doesn't make you right.
For example: A Buddhist and a Christian believe what they do, but does that make either of them right? That's what i meant -- just because you believe something doesnt make it right.
And how we to decide who is good and what is bad? Maybe I believe that religion should be abolished from government. You may believe otherwise. If we both act according to our beliefs, who is right and who is wrong?
Can faith not be mistaken? Once I may have had faith in Jesus, but I don't any longer. I have faith that my own personal spiritual quest (albeit an athiest one) will lead me where I want to go.
How can we judge others' faiths and beliefs based upon our own? How do we know that we ourselves are not wrong?
Which brings me back to the thing that you repeatedly keep ignoring: How do we know that the Bible is reliable?