Posted by Mike.P®
Is there somewhere on this forum to flag a bad trader?
I have one phone outstanding from 2 weeks ago and another that is not looking too promising atm either.
Before I post their names I am giving them until the weekend to post the phones or return my money.
Posted by Sammy_boy
Sounds like a good idea - I'm not sure if that 'good trading' thread is also for posting bad experiences as well.
I could be posting here soon - I'm waiting for a phone off someone from here also that I've paid for a week ago and heard nothing since that day - but it could be due to the British mail system, so I'm not worrying quite just yet!
Posted by k700nut
Personally,i would start a thread called "rogue traders".the bottom line is,if you pay the cash,you should get your clobber,no questions asked!name and shame imo mate.
Posted by *Jojo*
I guess there's a thread back there 'bout Esato's Trusted Sellers authored by @miklsp . . . you can post this bad trader's name by then, if your gadget did not show up dude . . .
___________________________________________
This SMS was posted from the Postal Office . . .
Posted by tranquil
Hre you go: Esato Market: A-Z of Trusted Sellers
Trusted/untrusted.
Posted by BobaFett
I wouldnt like flags. Esato is an info-forum in first line, not a bazaar. its everybodies responsibility to trust in somebody never seen before. To give a name free isnt the best idea, cos u never know what really happened. If he is guilty, he ll change name here and return. Otherwise its private affair, sorry for my opinion if it disappoint u, same way to your lost, but it was your decision, u should handle it. Dont like black lists.
Posted by *Jojo*
Hmmm . . . @bobafett is quite right here! Better send the 'erring' person a private message here first, we may really not know what transpired during the shipment/transporting of your goods mate
maybe it's not 100% his fault . . .
Posted by Mike.P®
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You think I have just been sat around for 2 weeks waiting for the phone without sending him a few private messages in the mean time?
I even had a reply once.
Posted by BobaFett
@mike give a call to him. Or have u done it already?
Posted by Sammy_boy
The person I'm having trouble with hasn't put any details in their profile, so the only way I have to contact him is via the PM system.
I strongly suspect that both me and mike are talking about the same person here......
Posted by TheWhizz_68
@Rippers
Hang 'em high
Posted by MikLSP
I guess this is a good time to get opinions on whether to add an unfortunate untrusted section to my trusted sellers list or whether to start that as a new thread or not bother at all.
Boba is right, people will just come back under a different name.
Posted by BobaFett
I see 2 options: we all are ready to take the risk to get pissed off or laffen close the fone-bazaar.
Posted by TheWhizz_68
There is only so much you can do to avoid being ripped.
A thread would be some kind of help i guess on bad traders if the mods approve.
Firstly if the person is new and no feedback from anyone , then it's a big gamble but saying that i've heard people with great feedback just out of the blue start to rip people , not from this forum but another.
If your only saving 10% of the price new then pay the extra and get fom a shop and usually if the deal is too good to be true then it usually is....
I usually try and stick to people close and try to deal face to face.
But s*it happens!! That's life!!
Posted by Im_The_Scatman
Tut, who is this mystery person?
[ This Message was edited by: Im_The_Scatman on 2004-10-07 21:01 ]
Posted by BobaFett
I dont think its the mods responsibility to judge traders. Its an open info forum as i wrote, trading is an apart of the service as i see.
Posted by Im_The_Scatman
ok, well no naming and shaming then!
Posted by *Jojo*
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I agree ! So that they'll have all the time in the world to defend themselves as well! Everyone has a day in court - as they say !
Posted by Sammy_boy
It depends if the goods arrive - I don't like dissing people, but if it's justified......
Yes, he\she may well sign on with a new name, but at least I would feel I am doing something to stop/minimise this kind of thing happening again, whether it will do or not!
It might make me feel that tiny bit better also
Posted by Mike.P®
mmm, I just wonder if the people on here saying no would be so quick to disagree if it was them that had been ripped off ... I think not somehow.
Anyway, makes no difference to me ... unless a Mod tells me otherwise I will be posting the offenders name this weekend and the other one a bit later.
Posted by MikLSP
I wasn't saying you shouldn't, I wap just asking whether people think it should become a section in the Trusted Sellers List.
I wap also stating that people could easily get round being blacklisted by registering under a new name.
I think though it's better that we all know who is guilty as long as you are sure it is their fault
Posted by lordmat
any updates?
Posted by Sammy_boy
Still nothing!
Sent him another email, no response though. I'm wondering what to do next - whether I can go to the police or whether they'll tell me to go away, if I can indeed do anything at all about this situation.
_________________
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
My Ebay AuctionsSamsung T100, no ringtones
[ This Message was edited by: Sammy_boy on 2004-10-22 17:58 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Sammy_boy on 2004-10-25 22:33 ]
Posted by Krubach
I have to disagree with Bobafett.
People should know who bad traders are. Just to be aware...
If this is not a commercial site then why the hell there's a market section.
I'd love to know with whom i can trade with.
And about the problem of someone getting back here with a different name. Well. I wouldn't send anything to a "newbie".
NAME AND SHAME!!!!
Posted by london-uk
@Sammy_boy In my opinion, I would advise you to contact the person by email, and specify a date upon which they must contact you in order to resolve the situation. If the person does not reply by said date, send them a further message informing them that you will report the matter to the police, and then do so.
Presumably you will have a log of correspondence between you and the other party. This would probably contain: 1) His/her initial listing of a phone for sale (in contract law this is known as an 'invitation to treat') 2) Your response e.g. "...I will give you x amount for the phone..." (in contract law - 'the offer') 3) His/her response e.g. "...yes you can purchase the phone for x amount..." (in contract law - 'acceptance'). There are of course other aspects involved within the formation of a contract, but if the three aforementioned criteria are present, I would say that on the balance of probabilities you would have a legally enforcable contract for the sale of the phone. That is step one, the other party could be seen to have breached the contract (this is however in most cases a civil matter).
In respect of criminal liability, the other party could be seen as having 'obtained funds by deception'. There are several other avenues which could be pursued e.g. 'fraudulent distance selling' etc. I am however not quite up to date on criminal law, as it has been a while since I have studied the subject in depth.
If you do contact the police, it will be useful for you to give them all and any correspondance you have regarding the other party. This should include copies of all posts he/she has made to the forum, any personal messages, any emails and details of how you have transferred funds to the other party.
Hope this helps.
Any advice given here should not be taken to signify legal or professional advice, merely my opinion based on my understanding of the law.
P.S. Sorry if composition etc is pretty poor, but it's quite late and I'm off to bed now
EDIT: I believe the Metropoltan Police have a specific division which deals with internet fraud. Google it, or give them a ring.
[ This Message was edited by: london-uk on 2004-10-23 01:30 ]
Posted by Sammy_boy
@London_UK - thanks for the info, very useful!
I do have all the correspondence still - the thread here on Esato and the posts in there, the private messages from the other party (but not the ones sent, as Esato doesn't store them), and the emails to/from this person querying where the item is. Also, the payment was done over Nochex, so I have some of the payment details also.
Some good news though - this person has responded to my email. He says that he is going to resend the phone (he must have got it back 'return to sender') and I should get it by Tuesday.
My fingers are crossed
_________________
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
My Ebay AuctionsVoda sim c/w £4.45 credit
[ This Message was edited by: Sammy_boy on 2004-10-25 22:32 ]
Posted by *Jojo*
@sammy_boy - So, you are to become one of the unlucky ones here too
! I just hope not . . .
Posted by Sammy_boy
@JN - so do I matey - if that phone turns up it will go a little way towards restoring my faith in humanity!
Let's all send good karma so that this phone doesn't get 'lost in the post' again!
Posted by *Jojo*
@sammy_boy - If ever, what will you lose here mate . . . money or fone? If it's a fone, is this your SE P800?
Posted by Sammy_boy
Well, after over a month's worth of emails, promises and excuses, there's still no phone, and he has now gone silent now I've emailed twice asking for my £40 back! Looks like I've been shafted, could've done with that money for Xmas
Posted by Stinger151
you gonna tell us who dis person is as i dont think anyone else would like to get ripped off by this person.
Posted by wapchimp
who is it
Posted by Sammy_boy
I was going to wait just in case he reads all this finally came to his senses but I very much doubt he will.
It is a user called Lexus_Technician.
He hasn't been online on Esato since the dodgy trade (right at the end of October), and another Esato user has been done by this guy.
I'm tempted to post his email address here and let everyone here on Esato let him have it!!!
He won't swindle me out of £40 and think he can get away with it scot free. I'm not sure if the police can do much about this guy, and to be honest I'm not sure if it's worth it anyway for a relatively small sum of money.
Posted by Stinger151
i was wondering wat happened to him . i was gonna buy a T610 of him before he disperred. Well sammyboy goodluck in getting ur money back you should show him that we on esato dont take that shit from people like that.Also 40 pounds isnt that much but could probaly buy u a decent second hand phone ie T610 could have been a great xmas present for someone.
Anyways goodluck
Posted by Sammy_boy
I think the person that bought that T610 paid some money and then never recieved the phone - so it's a good job you didn't buy it off him!
Posted by Stinger151
i am a lucky person
shame about the others though was he a trusted seller?
Posted by Sammy_boy
I don't think so, he had no references in that 'good traders' thread. I'm just wondering if I can post a 'negative' in there for this guy!
I've just thought - I could give him a negative on his Nochex account (how I paid him) too!
Posted by MikLSP
He was not on the Trusted Sellers List.
Take a look, the link is in my sig
I've also been giving thought on how to incorporate an 'Untrusted' section in there.
I thought maybe if I could do bad refs in red text? Or do u think a seperate section is better?
_________________
Posted, as always, from my P905!
Bought from Esato Market? Leave feedback in The A-Z Of Trusted Sellers
[ This Message was edited by: MikLSP on 2004-12-07 22:49 ]
Posted by Stinger151
oh yeah, thats the thing u never know if u can trust them if their not on da list.
Posted by Sammy_boy
You could perhaps do both - red text in the main thead, and perhaps a separate one.
If you were only going to do one or the other though, I'd say go for the red text idea - the 'good traders' thread gets updated frequently and looked at frequently, more chance of the fraudster's bad record been seen by more people.
EDIT: I've just looked at the PMs I've still got, and it was actually the BEGINNING of October that 'trade' was done - I didn't realise it was that long ago! I should perhaps have done something about this sooner.
_________________
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
My Ebay Auctions
[ This Message was edited by: Sammy_boy on 2004-12-07 23:01 ]
Posted by MikLSP
Obviously I can't make the posts red but I think it's possible to do the ref. under their name in the list red although I haven't successful written anything red yet!
By seperate section I actually meant within the same thread but as a seperate list under the Trusted one
_________________
Posted, as always, from my P905!
Bought from Esato Market? Leave feedback in The A-Z Of Trusted Sellers
[ This Message was edited by: MikLSP on 2004-12-07 23:06 ]
[ This Message was edited by: MikLSP on 2004-12-07 23:08 ]
Posted by london-uk
@ Sammy_boy
Were you able to use any of the advice I gave you previously? I hope you reported the matter to the police. Imo it is terrible that such a person should be able to cause disruption and inconvenience to another person's life. Hope you get it all sorted out
I really think that you should report the matter to the police. As previously mentioned, simply give them all the info you have on the matter. In monetary terms, the transaction might not seem very significant, however I still think you should follow it up.
@everyone
Regarding the 'bad traders' issue, initially, it sounds like a really good idea to have a list of 'dishonourable' traders on esato. I have personal experience of this regarding a transaction made through the Market section of esato. However, the wording of such a thread would have to be very careful. If anyone is able to create a viable thread, I would certainly support it.
_________________
M O N T Y
[ This Message was edited by: london-uk on 2004-12-08 10:38 ]
Posted by Mike.P®
Hmmm, I forgot about this thread.
Anyway, I was the perspn who bought the T610 off of
Lexus_Technician and received nothing.
Lucky for me I would only pay him half up front and half on delivery.
Anyway, if you are reading this Lexus_Technician may I just say you are thieving scum and what goes around comes around.
Posted by Intoxicated
jeez!! i was gonna have a deal with him for a t610
and it didnt work out 'cause i had a doubt..
feel sorry for you mate
Posted by Sammy_boy
Thanks for the support!
Last time I posted here, he emailed me feigning moral outrage, so far I haven't had a peep out of him.
If you are reading this Simon, Lexus Technician or whatever your name is, I offer you one last chance. I will edit my posts here, ONLY if I get a full refund, with no strings attached and without prejudice. No messing about, no excuses, no 'i'll do it next week' or any other crap, just the money back in my Nochex account. I've run out of patience, thus some my postings here! This has been going on since the beginning of October, time for a resolution.
Mind you, at least I made you work for your £40, all those excuses you made up and emails that you sent - I bet it wasn't the easiest 40 quid you've had out of someone, was it?!
Posted by raijuta
Hi everyone, just a warning to all. I posted an item for sale and there was someone who sent me a message in YM saying that he/she will buy the phone through wired money transfer. I was about to send the phone and the address is in nigeria. I received a fake email from westernunion that there was already a money deposited to my account. The good thing is, i called western union to confirm this, and i was amazed that this was a fraud. D*mn frauders. He/she almost got me the email address and the letter head are almost the same. Be aware of a YM id named Denise Morgan, the real name is Iseala Moses from Nigeria. I already reported this to FBI anti fraud division.
Posted by Krubach
@Sammy. I think you had too much patience. I would have got tired of that crap years ago...
Posted by dougproctor
raijuta,
One way to learn how scammers work is to read some of the questions asked of Ebay sellers. You get the "end the auction early, my brother has a birthday soon, lost his phone, need it straight away, Nigeria, Romania, Western Union, Wired Money Transfer etc etc".
The signs are all there, it just takes a bit of practice to spot them. You were lucky!
Doug
Posted by MikLSP
They are the signs, just steer clear to be safe.
I recently had an offer to buy a phone I had for sale. He was from Jamaica & wanted to pay with Wester Union. I refused that method, he played innocent & said whats the problem?
I just said I don't deal through WU a.k.a. 'ScamCentral' & strangely I haven't heard from him since!
Maybe realised I'm no easy target
Posted by arvinsign
i have the same experience but i doubted. I received 2 PMs from 2 different person vyng for a trade. But i noticed that these 2 persons are the same, and it seems their identity have just been made. there were no details on their selves in Esato. His condition is i will send him my phone first and mark it as a gift to be free of custom charges. and he said he wil send his after receiving mine. But i doubted, its just that icant trust that easy, and im no easy prey. He said that he wil trade his P910i to my S700i because he dont like that phone (he decsribed it as ugly and chunky) then suddenly i saw again a post by him in the marketsection of esato asking someone selling his P910 that he is interested and asking for pictures. Now why????
Please i need advise on the matter.
PS. his total posts as of yesterday is less than 10, so i thought its a newly created identity of someone who had been here before