Posted by abubakar
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Im not saying you have always been a Communist Nokia Defector
, Im just saying every time anything good is said about SE, you'd have a small commetary on Nokia. My link is bad so i'll postpone my "search for the Truth" when its better.
I havent seen the M600 myself but i read in What Mobile mag that the rocker qwerty is easy to assimilate.
Any how, i thank God for Nokia, for as they said in Vanilla Sky, "the sweet wouldnt be as sweet without the bitter!!"
Posted by brix25
@abubakar: I doubt it very much that somehow your local networks will charge you extra for using EDGE...the settings for EDGE and GPRS are the same so there's no way they know whether you're an EDGE-enabled phone to charge you extra.
Posted by OluYom
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I have a laptop too, dude. But lugging one around all the time is not my idea of being mobile. God knows how many times I have thanked Him for The Nokia 9500 and/or E61 (and before then the SE P800 and Moto A008!) at those moments and places where and when I needed to take urgent action on one thing or the other.
You can get a better overview at Chronicles of DomainStandard Networks . True mobility presents limitless possibilities.
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On which, here's my question again: what do I gain by having to learn a "slightly" different keyboard mechanism, when I have a regular keyboard available? What do I stand to gain by purchasing the M600i at a higher cost when the E61 costs less and provides me with the features and functionality that I need?
I really do not care for your SE sentiments. It just beats me silly that you still refuse to admit that so far there is not ONE single credible reason ANYONE has been able to give why I ought to have purchased the M600i.
I can imagine that someone else may have a very valid reason to choose the M600i over the E61, and that's okay with me. That seems to be the difference between you and me on this issue.
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Now the one who is definitely biased is you. The Gospel according to Abubakar seems to be: "If its not an SE, its trash". That, in my opinion, is a rather unfortunate position for anyone to hold.
Basically, I have defended my choice to purchase and use a particular phone based on my needs. The reasoning of that choice has not and cannot be flawed, based on available information. What's it with you that you just do not seem to be capable of letting the matter drop?
The E61 and all the other line-up of SE smartphones have not measured up to my clearly defined needs for about 2 years now. Nokia has had phones that efficiently addressed those needs.
I guess if you were in my shoes you would go ahead and get an SE anyway regardless of whether they best meet your needs or not. Bah!
_________________
Yomi Says: The church, web and mobility, and life in general
[ This Message was edited by: AYA on 2006-09-17 19:29 ]
Posted by abubakar
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I hope you dont have these emergencies too often. must be a stain on the eyes and thumbs!!! My laptop is always in the car so in case i need to do something quick fast its there. I would call it lugging around unless tou have a P1 beast. Im in enough shape to carry mine, sha.
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But i dont think writing with the M600 would be like, say, learning to write with hand writting recognition apps. Any how, to each his own!!!
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Did i ever say you should buy the M600? I only said it has a quasi qwerty keyboard. If i was to give advise, would advise you to use your laptop and a cheaper phone!!! Your laptop would have WIFI and your phone GPRS.
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Damn right Im biased!!! Im not saying the rest is trash, but i am saying SE gives more bang for the buck!!!! If you are not looking for particular features in a top end phone (like you) but are looking for a phone like an average joe, you have to admit SE gives great features. I cant feel "unfortunate" for being pragmatic. you are basing your judgement on high end phones and you particular needs. I judged it on the totality.
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Like i said earlier, I never said you made a bad choice with buying your E61. I only said SE kicks butt! Maybe you have some issues with it that you are projecting on me.
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I would make a practical decision on make what i have work for me (like my S700i and my notebook) rather than buy a E61 (or a M600i) that wouldn't aid me to do my day-to-day activities (only in emergencies that are crucial enough to buy an expensive phone but not crucial enough to "lug" around my notebook!!!) Any how, lets let the matter drop. (SE still rocks!) (for the average joe!)
Posted by OluYom
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Fortunately you are not in a position to advise me...
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Like i said earlier, I never said you made a bad choice with buying your E61. I only said SE kicks butt! |
And in this case? I take it for granted that we have been comparing the M600i with the E61.
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If you are not looking for particular features in a top end phone (like you) but are looking for a phone like an average joe, you have to admit SE gives great features. I cant feel "unfortunate" for being pragmatic. you are basing your judgement on high end phones and you particular needs. I judged it on the totality. |
Again, that's where you miss it. You cannot base your judgements "on the totality" as that does not exist. Everyone has needs, even the average Joe. That's probably why with all the noise about SE having more features for the buck (which is generally true), 1 in every 3 mobiles in use is a Nokia. That's why some people will still buy a Sagem, or a Samsung, or any other model for that matter.
At times, the average Joe does not want those extra features SE puts in. At times what Joe is looking for is a more user-friendly interface. At times, he just wants a phone for voice calls and SMS. At other times, he just wants a phone that sings and dances.
Whatever it is Mr. Average Joe is looking for, it still boils down to needs. Specific needs.
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I would make a practical decision on make what i have work for me (like my S700i and my notebook) rather than buy a E61 (or a M600i) that wouldn't aid me to do my day-to-day activities (only in emergencies that are crucial enough to buy an expensive phone but not crucial enough to "lug" around my notebook!!!) |
I cannot fault your choice at that. It works for you, and that is okay. On the other hand, my choices have worked excellently for me over the years, with results to show.
Which brings us back full circle to the point I keep drumming. Needs, not sentimental attachment, at the end of the day determine what each person uses.
_________________
Yomi Says: The church, web and mobility, and life in general
[ This Message was edited by: AYA on 2006-09-18 02:36 ]
Posted by abubakar
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Fortunately the key phrase was "if I was to give advise". You were the one clamouring over how i was advising you. (when I wasnt, but could, and eventually did!!!
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your mistake not mine!! my eyesight is fine, 20-20 from not screwing at a small screen!!!
Ithink that was Amby, if i remember correctly.
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Aha!!!!!! there you are wrong again!!!!! If you are basing the judgement of a companies phones (as I have been doing, not particular models) you have to judge them on a cost/feature basis (as i have been!!!). If you judge it on particular "needs" then every phone (even the crappiest phone in the world!!!!) will suit someones needs and he will grade it the best!!!! So thats where the cost/features basis comes in. Take all phones within a price range, check the features out. The one with the most/best features wins. Simple. And as you know, most times than not, its an SE.
The reason Nokia is more popular is because they have been in the phone game longer than SE and have had lots of past glory (like the 3310). They also had been spending the most on advertizing/ marketing. Coke sells the more than Pepsi in Naija and world wide, but is it because it is "really" better than pepsi? The coke image, marketing and availability makes the difference. half the people dont even know the difference if they took a blind taste test!!!
Most people buy phones without any real invstigation of what is out there, even those mildly feature conscience. they buy what thier friend or boss or colleague has. You and i both know if everyone looked for the best buy, SE sales would go thru the roof. (and cause its prices to go up, which is a bad thing for SE "enthusiates" like me!!)
And saying SE adds features people dont need is redundant if the phone is the same price or cheaper than the non-SE phone that doesnt have that feature. Catch my drift?
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We agree there!!!! As long as SE fulfills the majority of people's needs cheaper than Nokia, I'll stand behind them!!! The day Nokia drops its prices without slacking in features and quality, I'll be behind them!!!! (See, im not sentimental, just pragmatic!!!!!
)
So on that note i think all has been said. We agree on so many things we argued over and dis agreed on things we didnt!!!!(like the average joe) Lets leave space for others to write before we are both evicted from PNF!!!
@brix: like I said, mark my words, these gsm companies know they wont get back thier investments in the timely manner they've gotten used to by screwing us over. Idont think they got much from GPRS! (its been free half the time, which is a good thing!!!) Since they'll roll out in only choice areas, it makes sense to broaden the subscriber base, but these guys are not looking at long term goals (if they were we wouldnt have bought the 1st set of sims at N30,000+ ($200+). They know we naija men will pay thru the nose to have a status symbol. Just ask AYA!!!! (AY my guy, I dey joke o!!!!!) Any how, time will tell!!!!
[ This Message was edited by: abubakar on 2006-09-18 03:55 ]
Posted by OluYom
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And you showed up not explaining yourself clearly, but start making statements that suggest you are rooting for his side of the debate?
What did you expect me to think?
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If you are basing the judgement of a companies phones (as I have been doing, not particular models) you have to judge them on a cost/feature basis (as i have been!!!). If you judge it on particular "needs" then every phone (even the crappiest phone in the world!!!!) will suit someones needs and he will grade it the best!!!! So thats where the cost/features basis comes in. Take all phones within a price range, check the features out. |
Interesting. You are missing out something: the fact that there are phones that do not have half the features the E61 (or M600i) has but cost the same or more. Plenty of them in the market. I can name one or two Samsungs, for example, that fit in. Yet people buy them. Why? They like the clamshell (or slider) form factor; don't care for email on a mobile; and prefer a phone that sings every time you push a button to one that allows them read a Word document.
That's called "needs". And its as specific as it can be.
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The one with the most/best features wins. Simple. And as you know, most times than not, its an SE. |
Wrong again. The phones that people buy the most win (that's why the 3310 will always be remembered). Beyond features, there are other criteria established over the years why people pick devices. I'll give you a few:
1. Performance
2. Usability (its fact that Nokia has been king here for years, and that it helped build its strong following)
3. Looks (Samsung has been king here for years, though others are beginning to encroach)
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The reason Nokia is more popular is because they have been in the phone game longer than SE |
Do you have specific facts based on research and analysis to back this? Some brands are newer than others and yet have a more popular following than some older brands.
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and have had lots of past glory (like the 3310). |
And lots of present glories like the all-dancing, all-singing N and E series, and their excellent budget 1xxx phones for the average Joe, as you put it
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They also had been spending the most on advertizing/ marketing. |
That just adds to the list of things SE needs to learn from Nokia and Samsung
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And saying SE adds features people dont need is redundant if the phone is the same price or cheaper than the non-SE phone that doesnt have that feature. Catch my drift? |
Maybe. And maybe not. Again, people buy different products for different reasons. I have already dealt with this up there. A typical Samsung within a price bracket has far less features than a Nokia or SE within the same bracket. Yet there are people (fully aware of the difference) will pick "Sam".
They do not care for the high-tech gizmo. They do not care that they cost the same. We see this all the time when people make their choices of cars, clothes, whatever.
Look at the RAZR, as a functionality-biased person, I see nothing special about that phone. Yet, so many people went out and shelled out bucks for that phone when there were smarter devices that cost the same or less on the market. Why? Maybe because their uppermost need was a slim phone. Or the desire to be "hip". Or whatever. But its what they want. Or need.
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We agree there!!!! As long as SE fulfills the majority of people's needs cheaper than Nokia, I'll stand behind them!!! The day Nokia drops its prices without slacking in features and quality, I'll be behind them!!!! (See, im not sentimental, just pragmatic!!!!!:wink:) |
While we are agreed on certain things, here's something I learnt to come to terms with a few years ago: the world is not utopia. The majority of people apparently do not care that SE meets their "need" cheaper than Nokia. People don't choose products simply based on a features v.s. cost basis. Regardless of what you and I think, there is more to life than features and prices. That's why, for example, fashion phones that cost an arm and a leg will continue to sell. And probably outsell those phones that are really value for money. Ultimately, for some, fashion is a need.
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Lets leave space for others to write before we are both evicted from PNF!!! |
Let's prepare a warm welcome for the eviction party!
Where's the party at?
Posted by brix25
@abu: This debate is becoming pointless. I don't see the wisdom of editing web pages from a phone...hell, we can all steer a car with our two feet but that does not mean it has to be done. AYA loves his new toy and no matter how useless it is to most people, especially in Nigeria, let him enjoy the exclusivity that it affords him.
You guys might be interested to know that our own mario2003 aka mario2004 had his esato account hijacked after he installed an application on his phone that turned it into a server...visitors to his website(hosted on his phone) could access his passwords and usernames and thus made him vulnerable to all sorts of attacks both in the real and cyber worlds.
Posted by pxthomas
Yeah!!! as long as there is coke, pepsi will always come second. Likewise SE will always come second to nokia.
On behalf of PNF i thank Abu and Aya (before una go exchange blows for cyberspace)
@ALL... MTN gprs in my area is nothing to write home about. I need glo gprs settings
_________________
LOVE LIFE... IT'S THE BEST WE'VE GOT
[ This Message was edited by: pxthomas on 2006-09-18 12:30 ]
Posted by OluYom
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The same way many people did not see the wisdom of reading and editing their Word documents or checking email on their phones a few years ago?
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AYA loves his new toy |
And the older ones too. I did the sme things on the 9500 for over a year. It is not about the E61. It seems to me now that its really about people who refuse to understand that the world is bigger than their own little corners, and who attempt to judge everything else by their own (obviously limited) experiences or prejudices.
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let him enjoy the exclusivity that it affords him. |
In case you haven't noticed, unlike a majority of the human race you may know, some of us do not have our self-identity or security in being exclusive. My mobile phones fulfill a role in my life. What I do with my phones increase my productivity, shortening response times, and have kept my customers happy for upwards of 3 years. It has put food on my table and on the tables of my staff while enabling us to live the lifestyles we have chosen.
Whether or not you see the wisdom in what I do with my mobiles will not and cannot change the facts on ground or the results I have. That much is certain.
About mario2004, that's sad. Is this what he went playing around with?
_________________
Yomi Says: The church, web and mobility, and life in general
[ This Message was edited by: AYA on 2006-09-18 12:38 ]
Posted by brix25
@AYA: Yes, that's the application.
Posted by pxthomas
@Aya... please take it easy oh
Posted by OluYom
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Did I say something wrong?
@brix: setting one's phone up as a server, like mario did, is a dangerous thing. You literally give anyone on the Net access to everything you have on the phone. If I wanted to do something like that, I would use a clean phone: no contacts, no notes, no documents - absolutely nothing but the web pages I want to put up.
I hope nothing really vital belonging to him fell into the hands of the bad guys. That would be terrible.
Posted by pxthomas
@aya...with you around, i don't regret being a member of this forum
Posted by brym!
@pxt:Yeah, I must give kudos to AYA. He actually influenced my trying out a symbian smartphone last year and today I'm using my third smartphone on a different platform. Guess what? I am gradually becoming a little guru of sorts with Windows Mobile smartphones. Prior to that I was totally ENSLAVED to SE phones(just check out the history of my bondage...T68i,T300,T310,T610,K700,K500). Thanks to the reverend gentleman, I am free indeed! Somebody shout Alleluyah
[ This Message was edited by: brym! on 2006-09-19 00:48 ]
Posted by abubakar
@AYA: I clearly said SE phones are a better bang for the buck. I never even mentioned your choice in buying an E61 till a few posts back. Like I said earlier, you might have some issues with your phone that you feel the need to defend it.
Quoting fractions of my sentences and arguing them out of context makes this discussion fruitless. I said:
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If you disagree with that point don’t dissect just one aspect. it’s the BEING LONGER IN THE GAME + PAST GLORY + ADVERTIZING + MARKETING that I mentioned made Nokia's success. It goes without saying they also produce quality goods (as I have said before) but they are usually more expensive than the SE with very similar or exact features. I don’t think you need that much facts and figures to tell that Nokia had long been advertising much more than SE. It was only last year with the launch of the K750i that I began seeing SE adverts on billboards, newspapers, magazines, TV etc. Maybe you never noticed but I did. Any one else here notice that?
When I spoke of past glories I am talking of relatively. Back then with 3310, you had it or you had a dud. It was the quintessential phone of the time. All the phones you mention now are good but not as record breaking as the 3310, Motorola startac or the K750i. these are revolutionary phones.
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Most phone mags use those same criteria’s. Check out the Sept or November editions of What Mobile mag. Unless they are biased, you'll see SE phones getting better grades in total than Nokia in total.
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Staying to the theme of the argument, because someone is willing (and eager) to buy it does that mean the phone is superior or the phone co produces superior phones?
The razr example is an excellent one. Definitely no phone can have all features. But I was not gauging just one feature of one phone. I was gauging all the phones a company makes. I'd never say "SE produces the slimmest phones!!!". (till they actually do!!!)
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I agree with all of that! But if you are going to compare phone companies products, how else can it be done than cost/feature. Cant be by popularity. Cant be solely on unique features. (Especially if they all have their unique specs).
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You keep arguing on peoples needs when the discussion is on who makes the best phones. I dont understand how these needs reflect on how SE is producing better or worse phones. Virtually all phones co.s produce phones with wide range of specs. I think where we diverge is that i look at the final cost on the buyer for those features while you are just looking at the features. You would agree that what ever samsung that costs as much as your E61 but has only half its features is an over priced phone, unless it has some other fabulous features (like it is the size of a pin, or it displays holographic images!!!). If samsungs phones are mainly like that I would grade them lower than Nokia. that is how i see it.
I dont see most people buying phones due to thier "needs" (except phone phoning needs or posing needs), let me emphasis on most. I dont gauge the most popular performer as the best performer. Its just like on american idol. The person who wins is usually good but not necessarily the best. Its just like saying Coke is more refreshing or tastes better than pepsi.But if that is how you grade phone co.s, thats your perogative. But lets just leave it that we see the market from different perspectives.
And fiiiiiiinaly....
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Put a little more funk in ya lingo!!! Its WHERE DA PARDI AT!!!!!!!!!!
TRUCE!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ve lost too many hours on this and not on my website!!!!!
PS I believe brix was trying to point out that the way you use your phone may not be the most comfortable. You seem to be taking it a little too personal there. I dont think anyone thought it was wrong to check mail etc on the phone, just that it wont be comfortable with the types of phones available at the time(and the trend might not have follwers to be profitable). With the advent of blackberry and similar devices that is all behind us now.
@ALL: NEW PNF POLL!!!
Do you think the anticipated 3G services will be costlier, equal to or (????) cheaper than the current GPRS services?
[ This Message was edited by: abubakar on 2006-09-19 00:41 ]
Posted by OluYom
@abu: I finally agree 100% with you on one thing: continuing this debate is pointless.
You sparked it, fuelled it, changed the goalpost at will, accuse me of taking you out of context when you have been consistently guilty of same (without a protest from me), and finally think I'm taking things too personal, when in fact a number of statements bordering on being insulting have been thrown at me.
Its really no use, I must agree. And I will take you up on the truce you offered. Let's move on.
On your question, personally, I am not certain about what 3G pricing will be about. EDGE (if and when it comes onstream) will certainly be the same as GPRS, as the two cannot be separated. But whatever 3G will cost, GPRS prices must fall for 3G to be taken up in a profitable way.
Worst-case scenario: GPRS fees fall and 3G will be fixed at what GPRS costs right now.
Best-case scenario: GPRS prices fall and 3G will be priced the same with them on the various networks.
Posted by coolapostle
I think 3G will be higher than the present GPRS rates. I don't even see the GPRS tariffs going low enough any jubilation. The networks just put out GPRS for bragging purposes. They are not making any money from it.
My hometown recently got Glo and MTN coverage. While GPRS is live on the glo network, it is not available (and may never be) on MTN. Meanwhile MTN will tell the world they have WAP/MMS "everywhere you go" in Nigeria.
ON THE SE/NOKIA CEASE-FIRE
During my search for a cheap phone a few weeks ago (in my little corner of the world) I discovered that SE beat Nokia for the best phones in the 7k-12k price range. It was really frustrating that I could not find ANY phone with the spec I wanted that was not SE. I nearly succumbed to the J-series but finally resigned for the dumb-but-good-looking Moto.
ON GLO
I am ashamed to say that Glo updates its website ONCE EVERY YEAR during its anniversary. The latest version is now out: http://www.gloworld.com
Posted by abubakar
@AYA: just to stop the cycle, i'll pm you with regards to any offensive statements you perceived. but like i said b4, i respect all comments, suggestions and the occasional yab. any yab musta been just to lighten the mood, not to insult. that shouldnt be accepted by anyone on the thread.
@coola: i 1st went to the glo site a few weeks back. i was really disappointed with the content.
Posted by OluYom
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The Glo website is just one among numerous Nigerian websites that are rarely updated. Its sad. And it certainly is a waste. Some of those sites were built at ridiculous costs, but once you've visited once there's virtually no reason to return.
Posted by ambyzown
finally the duel seems to be over. I was just content to watch from the sidelines while u guys traded banter, look what happened to poor Brix who waded into the issue.
STILL RULES
On 3G data pricing, its going to cost the same (maybe even less) per kb of data as that of gprs. but on the whole u may end ur paying more because the tendency will be for u to browse more with a fast connection.
Posted by brix25
@amby: Maybe you can illuminate on what happened to me.
My argument was never for the M600, it was more about AYA's use of the E61...I still say that he is one of the few people who can afford and find use for a phone with primary features of little use in a place like Nigeria. The analogy of the Ferrari on a pot-holed road still sticks...get the road sorted out and maybe then we can talk of fancy technologies which will drive you at breakneck speed.
Just off topic: I saw something strange last night while watching tv, actually it's not strange since this is South Africa but there was a Nigerian guy (he's a SA citizen BTW) who just happens to be a member of our parliament grilling a state official on some other issue.
Posted by abubakar
ROUND 2: AMBY vs BRIX
@all: I saw the M600 on sale for N45k in the papers. Is that price for real?
Posted by OluYom
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Quite possible. It was around N52/N53k when I purchased my E61. 45k sounds right.
Posted by ambyzown
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ha ha Abu, I know what u're trying to do.
Yes the M600i is within the sub N45k range. I saw it at Slot for N43,500
@Brix: nothing "happened" to u, but the entire debacle is reminiscent of an outsider in the middle of a husband-wife conflict.
Posted by abubakar
@AYA: I was suspecting it was refurbished. If its new, who is willing to buy my S700i?
Posted by brix25
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So who's wearing the pants in this house?
Posted by abubakar
oya, AY, talk now!
Posted by OluYom
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Guess
Posted by pxthomas
@abu... It is not refurbished.
IT IS SONY ERICSSON
Posted by abubakar
@pxth: Anyhow, think i'll steer clear of any 3G phones till I see where and how good the 3g services are offered. Does any one know the going price for a k700 now? in Abj its abt 26k but i thought it should be lower than that by now. Weds Guardian ddnt help either.
Posted by Laykay
@abu: think the K700 at computer village in lag is about 22 friend of mine got it at that price lastwk not fairly used cos dat's wat all dudes think they sell there.
Posted by abubakar
@laykay: thanxs man. I'll try to price it at 23k. Its for my wife (her phone got stolen!!!)
Posted by mamba
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You could get it for 22k but I'll advise you get a k600 or v600 for 19k instead. Better camera, performance, battery and a later model that's closer to k750 plus additional advantage of 3g.
I just went tru the last posts of AYA vs Abu and would like to state that some people choose phones based on the brand name while the wiser guys base their choice on balancing between features wanted/performance/price.
I'm an SE fan that would not buy a SE phone that does not meet my exact needs, so I decided to try out some few Nokias last month and realized something.. No matter how loyal you are to a brand, loyalty starts to diminish once you test other products and find out they are at par or even better. Nokia has been getting their acts right lately and gradually distancing themself from SE.. They've been producing phones with better screens, features & advanced technology while SE is still living on the walkman glory.
Posted by brym!
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because of the intuitive nature of its OS. I find whatever I want where I expect to find it.
