Posted by BobaFett
U are right, but with his question he created an interesting thread and we discuss here just a rumour, so its acceptable.
Posted by david1975
yes it has become an interesting thread i think i read it in a gadget magazine in the uk i think its was stuff or t3 so sorry to the person i called a little boy there was pictures lol
Posted by methylated_spirit
I was never a fan of ericsson phones at all, but i loved sony phones. The sony phone was imo one of the best, and innovative around before they merged, and they hadnt even been making phones that long. The merger was the kick up the backside ericsson needed. The jog dial, memory stick, the menu system, they are sony's design. I dont think ericsson would be anywhere near as good as they are just now, but i think Sony would still be producing terrific phones if they hadnt merged.
I would never have buying a
if it wasnt for the p800, and now im hooked.
_________________
Hello, Scroto!
P800,P900,LG8110
[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-09-12 18:21 ]
Posted by plasmadog
well,
if /// and sony go their separate ways, i wonder what'll happen to esato?
but, i seriously doubt that it could happen in the near future.
i think it has been an equitable/profitable partnership for both sides.there are some lessons both of them have learnt from the relationship.
sony or ericsson, either wouldn't have been the 3rd largest mobile phone maker in today's competetive market if they'd stayed apart.
so, let it be what it is!
Posted by bart
easto was alive long before SE was.
methylated_spirit: i can't say that i like any of sony's influence. maby the jogdial is ok but the rest. oh boy. expencive MSD, HBM-30 made by sony and fixed that i will give a long battery life when you use the sony's atrac3 instead of the standard MP-3, poor design of phones and menu. imo i don't find that sony phones had much inovation, ok the company didn't have much experience, but still.
Posted by plasmadog
bart...thanks for the info!
i kind of agree with what meths says.
if it weren't for sony, i don't think we'd see phones like p800/900.
Posted by Vlammetje
Personally I think that //////////////// (why do people do this? What's wrong with typing 'Ericsson' you know it's in your words anyway) anyway I think Ericsson would not be able to survive for very long on it's own. Apart from that I like se a lot more than either Sony or Ericsson apart.
Posted by BobaFett
@bart sony started to make fones cos ebody else started it. I accept ///, nokia and maybe motorola as brands who has acceptable knowledge, tradition about mob fones.
Posted by 701
U all seem to forget that Sony actually BOUGHT the mobile division from Ericsson when they almost went bankrupt. And when no1 was interested, Sony came along. They bought Er quite cheap and put their name on the latest phone at the time, the T68. Sony needed a name and a continuation in the mobile market. If u remember,the 1st Sony gsm mobiles were Bosch/Siemens patents, while the C series were just some mobiles,not innovative nor extraordinary beautiful. So stop creating legends..
Posted by scotsboyuk
@701
You can only say that you thought Sony phones did not look good, everyone has their own opinion. Personally I always thought Sony phones looked fantastic. You can read what I thought of Ericsson designs earlier in this thread. It is everyone to their own at the end of the day.
The biggest benefit Sony brought to SE was their name. Brand recognition counts for a lot and Sony has that. People like Sony products, they assume Sony products will be of a high standard. Ericsson, on the other hand, were not doing all that well and their brand recognition was no where near that of Sony's.
Posted by BobaFett
Sony needed /// to make acceptable fones.
Posted by scotsboyuk
I think Ericsson needed Sony more than Sony needed Ericsson, but certainly both came to a point where they could no longer think baout producing mobile phones as independent companies.
Posted by 701
@scots:those were not my opinions but facts. And about brand recognision,u r dreaming. Sony alone was nobody in the mobile business having 0.2% along with Panasonic. By buying /// they admitted failure to impose their name in a world of sharks. $ is all that matters. Ericsson on the other hand is the recognized name everywhere, the innovator and the best in producing mobile tech(no1 in gsm networks4example). So it's the other way around than what u said. Reffer to some materials over the net pal!Since 2000.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@701
You seem to have misunderstood my point, so I shall set it out again. You stated that Sony phones were ugly, that is not 'fact', that is an opinion. No one person can judge what beauty is, what is ugly to you may be beautiful to someone else. I have already stated that I think the Sony mobile phones were, in fact, very appealling aestheticly.
My point about brand recognition was correct, Sony was and is a much more recognisable company than Ericsson. I was not just referring to Sony's mobile phone division, but to the company as a whole. People tend to look at Sony products as being of a good quality and worth buying. The fact that Sony had a very small share of the mobile phone market probably has more to do with the fact that they were not long time producers of mobile phones for the global market; other companies such as Motorola, Nokia, Ericsson, etc had been producing mobile phones for longer than Sony and therefore one would expect them to have larger market share.
Your point about Ericsson being the recognised leader in the mobile technology field seems somewhat spurious since Ericsson were on the verge of bankruptcy; they were obviously not that good or else they wouldn't have needed to merge with Sony.
Sony were doing poorly in the mobile market and therefore cast around for a suitable partner; they decided upon Ericsson. Both companies appear to be doing well out of this arrangement.
Posted by Vlammetje
I have to agree with scotsboy here.
As much as Ericsson may have been an 'established brand' within a rather limited group of elitists... as a 'major brand in the mobile market' I am afraid it was a failure. I am sure my country is not the only one where Ericsson phones hardly got the light of day... advertising and marketing wise. It was Nokia Nokia Nokia everywhere you looked. I personally know NOBODY who owned an Ericsson phone in real life.
It is quite possible that Ericsson was popular at some parts of this planet... but NOWHERE near as big as Sony was and is.
And THAT, my friends, is why Ericsson needed Sony. Recognition and money. Lots of money.
Sony on the other hand obviously needed Ericssons R&D branch.
Posted by themarques
Sony Ericsson reports profit and continued growth in the fourth quarter
19 January 2004
Tokyo and Stockholm, January 19 -- Sony and Ericsson today announced the consolidated financial summary for the fourth quarter, ended December 31, 2003 of Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB (Sony Ericsson), the 50:50 joint venture of Sony and Ericsson. The company reported continued growth in sales and shipments in the fourth quarter. During the quarter the company started shipping a variety of new products to further enhance and diversify its product portfolio in the GSM and Japanese markets.
Units shipped in the quarter reached 8.0 million, which is 13% higher than the same period last year. Sales for the quarter were Euro 1,437 million, representing year-on-year increase of 16%. Income before taxes was Euro 46 million which includes restructuring charges of Euro 9 million, relating to the final phase of previously announced restructuring of the American CDMA business and the GSM development unit in Munich, Germany. Net income was Euro 43 million, which represents year-on-year improvements of Euro 112 million. This reflects the continued success of the T610 series, successful introduction of new products in Japan, and the launch of both high-end and entry-level phones for GSM markets.
In 2003, units shipped reached 27.2 million, which is 19% higher than previous year. Sales for the year were Euro 4,673 million, representing an increase of 12% compared to 2002. Income before taxes was Euro -130 million which includes restructuring charges of Euro 63 million. The strategic focus areas of GSM and Japanese standards posted a 50% and 15% year-on-year growth in shipments respectively.
“We are pleased to announce another quarter of profit and a strong second half of the year. Following restructuring in the first half of the year, we have established a more solid operational platform. 2003 has seen Sony Ericsson further establish itself as an innovative and exciting new brand. We are optimistic that we can build on the success of the second half of 2003 with exciting new products like the P900, T630, T230 and our first two clamshell phones, the Z600 and Z200, as well as innovative products for the Japanese market.” says Katsumi Ihara, President of Sony Ericsson.
Q4 2002
Q3 2003
Q4 2003
2002
2003
Numbers of units shipped (million)
7,1
7,1
8
22,9
27,2
Sales (EURO m.)
1235
1305
1437
4176
4673
Income before taxes (EURO m.)
-77
39
46
-291
-130
Net income (EURO m.)
-69
62
43
-241
-86
Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB offers mobile communications products for people who appreciate the possibilities of powerful technology. Established in 2001 by Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson and Sony Corporation, the joint venture continues to build on the success of its two innovative parent companies. Sony Ericsson creates value for its operator customers by bringing new ways of using multimedia communications while mobile. The company’s management is based in London, and has 4,000 employees across the globe working on research, development, design, sales, marketing, distribution and support.
So I hope this helps all the sceptics especially Nokia sceptics....
[ This Message was edited by: themarques on 2004-09-12 21:48 ]
Posted by bart
ericsson almost went bankrupt because they where doing to much R&D most of you only know 10% of what ericsson was doing behind the screens. even i know only 50%. the invested alot of money in projects that were to advanced for that time. ericsson believed in a fully mobile controle envirement. but the demand for many high tech stuff stayed away. also the mobile phone market droped significantly.
i can only hope that /// will restart there home products line and a few of there other lines. they world could've been where we'll be in 10years.
and there would've been a Pxxx phone. ericsson had alot of prototypes ready. there communicator would've hit the market first. folowed by there P800 and the P200 (the planes for the phone date back to the year 2002). and then there's also the RX1 a phone that should've been on the market this year, and i'm sure it would've been a smash hit. but i gues we'll never know for sure.
Posted by Jake Blues
my opinion is that if the partnership did not happen, neither sony or /// would be making phones today.
Posted by scotsboyuk
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Did you work for Ericsson?
Posted by Vlammetje
without the necessary funding to place a product in the market a company gets NOWHERE.
all the waht ifs in the world won't resolve the simple fact that ericsson could NOT make it financially. Period.
And
has a fair chance of ACTUALLY making it.
No use going back to the past. if Ericsson didn't get the help it so desperately needed they would have been finishd years ago. They only reason they got the T68 out is because they were in the last stages of negotiatiiong with Sony to begin with.
face it people: there is no ericsson anymore. there is SONY Ericsson now
At least for phones there is.
Posted by BobaFett
Put an r520 and a sony launched in the same year next to each other...
Posted by scotsboyuk
@boba
Can I have the Sony please?
Posted by Vlammetje
put a nokia and a kyocera produced in the same year next to one another...
Put a sheep and a goat bron in the same year next to one another....... whilst today we're not dealing with either one
what is your point?
Posted by bart
i don't work for /// (sadly) but i know alot from people who work/worked there.
oyea vlammetje ericsson is still doing more then you think in the background. example remember when the news got a out that ericsson would make bluetooth home phones for BT?...
Posted by Vlammetje
ericsson exist as a company but they do not produce mobile phones anymore. I know all that but hey... guess what.... it does not bother me!
Posted by scotsboyuk
@bart
I'm not too sure the Ericsson bosses would have liked to know that their staff were leaking company R&D projects to people with no official involvement in the company.
At any rate, I don't see that this discussion is actually going anywhere. There seems to be a desire in certain quarters to undermine Sony, why this would be I am not too sure; surely we should be focusing on the current situation rather than the track record of either company.
Posted by BobaFett
@scotty of course, cos then i have the /// ;o) vlammetje: we dont discuss here other brands and i can compare what i had in my hand and experienced with. Past is past, thats right, but aslong my oldies do fit my everyday use, i may have the right to make here a bit 'advertisement' for my favourite brand and tell my opinion of the present. Nobody get hurt by it. Sony is for me a middle-class co, never was a fan of their products.
Posted by david1975
Didnt think i would create such a frenzy with this post got you all talking though i think se have done a very good job and will continue to do so didnt think i would get so many replys as you can see im using a k700 to post this
Posted by bart
one of the bosses of /// knows about me. and he trusts me that i don't go spreading the info that i know. he's a true /// him self and he promised me he'll try to do everything he can to get the home product line and other lines back.
i like sony as brand of hifi/tv/discman and other stuff. but i find that you can have the same technology for less money just with another logo on it. sure sony is good, although service could be better, products should be cheaper and more inovation.
Posted by methylated_spirit
When ericsson made phones and sony made phones, sony phones were so much better. Ericsson were seen as cheap, scond-rate, difficult menu systems,uneccessarily cluttered and fiddly. And they had been designing them for years. Sony only had 2 or 3 mobiles out, but they really did their homework, they were small, light, easy to use, good looking, straightforward, and still packed with features.
I stand by what i said earlier, ericsson need sony, but sony dont need ericsson.
_________________
Hello, Scroto!
P800,P900,LG8110
[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-09-13 11:26 ]
Posted by Vlammetje
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that poor man.
notwithstanding that somebody trusted you (a schoolboy) with his R&D info (which I find somewhat hard to believe) he could have gotten fired for that.
You bragging about it could also have gotten him fired. All in all it sounds rather dodgy imho.
Posted by methylated_spirit
Unless its his dad...
Posted by Vlammetje
my dad works at a bank
do you really believe that he informed us of every clients credits and liabilities? OF COURSE NOT!
If Ericsson really had a few high placed officials that blabbered away to anybody and everybody, in a world where industrial espionage is more than just a myth........ they were in deeper trouble than i realised.
Posted by BobaFett
Happened what happened, /// will never make mob fones again. If se will in the future, we ll see. Anyway, there is an /// museum in sweden, not sure if sony, se whatever will have one. Thats all i can say, thx for the discussion, its a nice thread.
Posted by Krubach
I've been reading this thread and this is worse than a Nokia-SE flaming war.
IMO, and I repeat, IMO, SE was a smart move from both companies.
Ericsson was THE most technologically advanced among GSM manufacturers and Sony was the most technologically advanced among Media manufacturers and they realised that MEDIA was the future of GSM so, again, they did a smart move.
I was a /// fan (@Vlamm: the three bars resemble the Ericsson logo, that's why they're used...) but i must admit that i didn't like the design much (from the models that were out, not prototypes, 'cause i don't have any inside info...
) although they were great phones. The R380 was a step forward in business phones.
Sony had an OK design (there were no great designs in the past, for me all phones were ugly...) and some media features (pics and sound features, etc...) and were very good phones.
And i admit, i'm a Nokia hater. Don't ask me why, i just can't stand Nokia. It's something from the heart
Posted by bart
there are so many ericsson bosses that love ericsson its hard to find the right one
eu sony's first european phone hit the market in 1997
sony made 13 phones for the european market before SE was made
sony products didn't sell well because of low demand, poor advertising, designs not catching the eye and most of all limited supply
Posted by methylated_spirit
It was the design that caught my eye, but you are right about the marketing, they should have marketed it a lot better.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@bart
I really do not mean to get onto you, I really am genuinely interested, but I have to admit that I tend to agree with Vlamm when she says that she finds it hard to believe that someone in a position of authority at Ericsson would have revealed industrial secrets to you. Why would this person give such confidential information to you?
@all
I agree with methylated_spirit with regards to the appeal of Sony mobile phones, I genuinely liked the designs. I'm not quite sure why there seems to be an 'argument' here, both Sony and Ericsson had flaws with regards to mobile phones, but I believe they have managed to combine the best points of both companies. I don't think Ericsson was ever a major force in the UK at any rate, mind you, neither was Sony. Perhaps I am wrong, but I can't ever recall many people with either Sony or Ericsson phones.
I would seriously doubt whether Ericsson will ever make mobile phones as an independent company again, the future is very much SonyEricsson.
Posted by bart
getting info from people is hard, but info for info always works. i can't tell how i work to get info from people. its a trade secret
i know its hard to believe, but i'm not the only one who's rather young that can get his hands on some special info.
Posted by draak1
Guys,Sony need Ericsson for IP patentie somthing like that and Ericsson was almost bankrupt in Mobile branche sector,not whole Ericsson as a company.
Ericsson's mobile/telecom division dind't sell much,that is reason why Ericsson has some problems and for that Ericsson chooce for the Telecom division in order to save.
And what Bart said about R&D,yes he has richt about that.
Eveyting is going wrong sinds the introduce of the Euro and a weak Dollar.
Posted by methylated_spirit
@scotsboyuk: You have to remember that the Nokia 3310 was rife, everyone had one in the UK. Not many other phone makes got a look in. If Nokia werent as omnipresent, i think more people would have cottoned on to the sony. As usual, its a case of people being sheep, and following the herd. Even at the time, the 3310 was crap! But you could get little rude "picture" messages so everyone wanted one. Im sure if more people had seen the pictures on a sony they would have went for it, but Nokia nipped in with the bullshit marketing as usual. Its only now, a few years later, that people are starting to realise that Nokias are basically dull, basic, and uninteresting. Could be argued that silver clamshells, whatever the make, are the new Nokia, i suppose.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@methylated_spirit
Motorola also had a sizeable share of the UK market, especially before Nokia took off. Nokia was and is the most popular brand in the UK, indeed, in much of the world. I don't think Sony's mobiles were bad, in fact I think that they were rather good phones; I was certainly always pleased with them.
I think Sony had realised that they had come into the global mobile phone market at a late stage and were looking to link up with a more established player so as to increase their presence.
Posted by mixin
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You couldn't add more pictures though could you?
I used to love that blue and silver sony, j5 i think, which was really skinny. That was a good phone.
It had sand art aswell, which is 10 times better than any poo snake game.
Who would have thought that a game where you can make different colour pyramids could be so fun? and the music "doo doo do dooo doo" it was SO GOOD!
Posted by Vlammetje
is that the origin of your doo doo doo?
Posted by methylated_spirit
Yeah, their games were fab! i had the Z7, it had blackjack on it, and table football! Snake? Pah!
Posted by scotsboyuk
I always remember thinking that orange backlight was a dashed smart.
Posted by wm222002
All bullshit,these nokia lambs hav nuthng 2do apart frm postng such rumours..jealous of SE
Posted by scotsboyuk
@wm222002
Where did that come from?
Posted by david1975
i thought people had got a bit fed up of this thread but someone likes it lol anyway im preety sure its safe to say that se are going to be together for a few years to come