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Scrap the Post Count


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Posted by scotsboyuk
I would like to suggest that the post count be scrapped, the number of posts one has made is completely irrelevant, it serves absolutely no purpose other than to promote the idea that somehow a member is better than another if they have more posts. There also seems to be a perplexing need to get to five hundred posts, it is almost as if that makes one a better Esatonian too.
There are many Esatonians who have relatively low post counts and yet provide a very high standard of information and debate. I'm not quite sure why there is a post count anyway, as I said, it doesn't appear to serve any purpose. If it is necessary to keep account of how many posts members have made, then surely this could be done by the moderators behind the scenes.


Posted by mixin
Scrap the post count and bring in esatoage™, which counts how many days you've been a member at esato

Posted by The Little Master
i second that...i mean its the first thing that everyone looks at when theres another member on the scene and they just assume that you dont know as much as them..its pointless really

Posted by slattery69
i dont care one way or another. after youve been here a few weeks you soon get to see who helps who who takes the piss etc so the post count does make much difference
i did post that i had reach 500 as i was quiet pleased to have been around long enough to do it and like to think ive helped a few people along the way
i do agree the number makes no differnce some people who have just joined can be as or far more knowlegdeable on subjects than people who have been around for ever
if its goes i couldnt careless and if it stays i couldnt care less

Posted by ephil_24
@MixiN That would be ok but some users (like me) used to watch the forum a long time before they made a registration...

Posted by bico
@scotsboyuk: I agree with you! Very good idea!

Posted by BobaFett
We discussed it already and i do support the idea. Would be interesting what @laffen is going to do in this case.

Posted by Vlammetje
Quote:

On 2004-06-21 18:32:40, ephil_24 wrote:
@MixiN That would be ok but some users (like me) used to watch the forum a long time before they made a registration...




let's talk in small print shall we. I think you misunderstood an obvious joke in that, as it seems rather plain and clear to me that is is ridiculous to get rid of one system that may make certain members feel a certain unjustified 'superiority' over others, just so we can exchange it for another system that may make certain members feel a certain unjustified 'superiority' over others
I think the whole point is that all useless info on which certain individuals think they oughta base their perceived status, serve no purpose at all.


Posted by GOwin
@Vlammetje
very well said! (or written)

Posted by bico
Let's get rid of the old post counter once and for all. Let's not introduce a new memberday counter. These kind of misleading counters are of little or no use to anyone.

That the current post counter is meant to be some kind of measure of a posters knowledge and/or quality is quite obvious. Otherwise, why are the posts from the garbage and the mobile free zone threads not counted? Because they are not considered to be a measure of a posters knowledge and/or quality, while the others are.

@laffen: What do you say? What's your opinion?
_________________
/bico

[ This Message was edited by: bico on 2004-06-23 00:49 ]

Posted by GOwin
when esato was new, that counter had some relevance but now it's just a relic of the old esato. laffen need not exert any extra effort, we can simply ignore it.

Posted by bico
I'm sure that as long as the post counter is available, the discussion will arise every now and then. But it's no big deal.

Posted by arnoldc
actually, other forums are worse because they have this "ranking" based on number of posts such as "newbie", "citizen", "guru", etc, etc.


[ This Message was edited by: arnoldc on 2004-06-23 01:15 ]

Posted by laffen
For me, it is sometimes difficult to separate different users with similar names (see attached image). The counter is a quick way to separate the "oldtimers" from the rest.



Posted by GOwin
oh, shucks. "oldtimers"

at least, that's better than geezers.

Posted by Residentevil
Just because you got a lot of posts, does not mean anything. Some peeps just fill up their counters with short and "useless" messages, just to rack up more posts. For now I think it is still a good counter, because of a.) lack of a better system and b.) if you are a regular you are able to separate the cream from the crop.

Posted by scotsboyuk
I am usually all for preserving the past and all that fizz, but quite frankly I just don't see a reason for keeping the post count. Although GOwin suggested that we just ignore it, this is difficult to do when it is displayed on each post. If we were to have ranks it would need to be done properly so that advancement is possible and isn't based merely upon the number of posts someone makes. One system could be to make ranks a factor of the number posts made, the length of time as a member and the moderator’s discretion on who regularly makes informative posts; of course I am only suggesting this if there were to be a ranking system, I am not actually advocating that there be such a system.
Perhaps the moderators could have a ‘moderator’s eyes only’ system to differentiate between members, the average Esatonian would have no access to this information, thus satisfying both requirements of abolishing the post count and allowing the moderator’s to differentiate between members.

Posted by lor
actually, I disagree. I want laffen to have a day count. Like I've been here since 1979, so I want recognition.

jk

but to be honest, every forum on the internet has some sort of post count. It's weird~ I feel out of place with 3-4 post.

[ This Message was edited by: lor on 2004-06-23 10:53 ]

Posted by BobaFett
I think @laffen gave us a clear point. Its his show and he can use the counter. We should ignore it. Thats it.

Posted by batesie
@boba, how long before this gets brought up again? ;-)

Posted by BobaFett
It will be constantly in the air, as mentioned ay other members aswell. There are 2 sides, @laffen and the members. The question is, what is more effective for esato itself. The truth is some where between the 2 parties, but when a few persons has to control some thousands, they are worth to own privilegs by deciding in questions like this. We ll meet this dilemma in the next future, thats for sure.

Posted by Vlammetje
well for the admin of the board it is obviously simple to look into stats of numbers of posts of members. Because HE wants something does not really mean we HAVE to be able to see it too. He can tweak the board and our permissions any way he likes.

So I think you misinterpreted him. I think he meant he sees it as convenient for US, mere mortal members, to be able to distinguish members by things such as their postcount.

correct me if Im wrong

Personally I've never had much trouble recognizing members, but that's probably coz I mostly interact with the same group so I have some idea who's who anyway

And looking at ones postcount usually sheds no light for me... but that is just me

Posted by BobaFett
I

Posted by scotsboyuk
@boba

Please elaborate.

@all

The question is one of divisiveness, the post count serves no purpose other than conferring non-existent 'status' to some members who feel that the number of posts they have made is somehow a measure of their standing on Esato.
If the moderators need to know how many posts have been made by members for whatever reason, then that information could be kept to the moderators only. The idea of ignoring the post count is not really very practical, as I stated before.

Posted by mixin
Well lemme just say that i find the post count very usefull indeed. I quite often look at how long the person has been a member and how much they post. It's a quick sign of how active the person is, and how much they should know.
It's not entirely accurate, but it gives the quick indication if i dont recognise the username

Posted by Vlammetje
But all the same, other members feel 'superior' because they joined earlier than others, so let's get rid of the join date as well.
Ohers feel superior because they have a more expensive phone than some (or pretend to) so let's get rid of the avatars as well!

I, finally, feel superior because I am and there is no getting rid of me


Posted by BobaFett
sorry, had some gprs problems. all the comments here are very interesting. personally i dont take care of the posts, all i can say to this a wrote before, so i ll accept any decision. thats it.

Posted by Vlammetje
Quote:

On 2004-06-23 13:49:00, MixiN wrote:
I quite often look at how long the person has been a member and how much they post. It's a quick sign of how active the person is, and how much they should know.




the amount of time spent online typing is an indication how much a total stranger should know??

That sounds rather silly imho

An accurate answer is the only true indication of what someone knows.

Posted by scotsboyuk
The post count is harmless as long as people don't use it to give themselves more status than they actually have; I think we have all seen someone castigating someone else because of their low post count or assuming that someone doesn't know much because they have a low post count.

Posted by energetic
Here is another suggestion if you want to change the looks of the "Post counter".

Instead of ">500" lets continue the count to ">1000".

Not a great suggestion I must admit but what the...

Anyway regarding the "Day counter" it is obvious that there is an indication that says "Joined on 5th, June, 2002" etc. so why bother?

Now here is a last minute suggestion. We all have the avatar identification but what if we could add our photo. A photo small enough like the avatar size view. Only those logged (on-line) could watch the photo like in the "Orange Scribble". In this way not a lot of bandwidth will be used.

This are my suggestions but not the best apart from the photo thing but laffen will have the last word. Maybe its better to leave the whole thing as it is... or not?

Posted by Vlammetje
if it ain't broken don't fix it


but I would never put my photo on view on this board... lemme keep my phone

Posted by mixin
Quote:

On 2004-06-23 14:14:43, Vlammetje wrote:
the amount of time spent online typing is an indication how much a total stranger should know??



Well generally, yeah. Someone who has been on the forums for a year or so, and made 500 odd posts, it shows that they are active. If they are active then they are more likely to know quite a bit due to reading lots of topics in that time period. Granted, they may have been posting garbage all that time and not spent any time reading or replying to anything other than garbage. And you'll get people who already know a lot before they join. And they are exceptions. But its only a small indication. Im not gonna completly judge people by their post count and join date.

But hey, who knows, maybe i just think like that because i am silly?

Posted by scotsboyuk
I don't have anything against the post count per se; it is just that it seems to have become something of a snob factor. The idea of 'raising the bar', so to speak, isn't actually that bad an idea, although it would probably just encourage people to post more tosh in an effort to reach the new marker.
If the post count is to stay then perhaps the best solution would be to get rid of the five hundred marker and simply have the number of posts someone has made.

Posted by mixin
the whole idea of the >500 marker, was to stop people posting tosh to reach the obvious targets of:
1000
2000
etc

And then to stop people trying to have the highest post count.

Posted by scotsboyuk
I don't think it has worked very well in that regard; if anything it seems to encourage the posting of copious amounts of tosh simply to reach the five hundred mark.

Posted by mixin
But then if it wasnt there, you'd get more tosh with people trying to hit the 1000 mark.

500 bits of tosh per person is better than 1000 bits of tosh per person.

Posted by Vlammetje
there is no correlation between activity on the board and expertise on the subject of phones.

I like to submit myself into evidence as exhibit A to proof specifically that point

For the rest.... it seems all has been said that needs to be said. I vote for ending this topic

Posted by scotsboyuk
Hence why I suggested scrapping the idea of a marker, a better idea, in my opinion, would be to display the number of posts someone has made. It could be argued that this would encourage people to post more tosh in an effort to outdo one another, although I don't believe that this would be the case. As a member progresses he\she would no doubt become bored by trying to post as much as possible, most people simply do not have the time for it, of course there would be exceptions, but isn't that the case at the moment anyway?
Another option would be to keep the marker, but lower it, to one hundred posts say, perhaps even lower; that way members would reach the marker much sooner and perhaps discourage the posting of tosh to reach a higher marker.

Posted by mixin
Quote:

On 2004-06-23 15:11:22, Vlammetje wrote:
there is no correlation between activity on the board and expertise on the subject of phones.



So you've not learnt much during your stay at esato then?

Posted by energetic
To be honest I dont think this will encourage our members to post just to reach the 1000 goal. Its a high limit to reach any way. 500 posts is something that is easy to reach but if it was 2000 or 3000??? Nobody would bother to do so.

But this is not the reason that we are here to ESATO or is it? Because if that is the case then.... what can I say?

Personally I like the ESATO body and structure of the site as it is. And I must say am really glad to see that Laffen and Esato group are very creative and are trying to do their best for Esato and the members. Since the day I joined the biggest satisfaction is that I see a child(Esato) growing to a man(ESATO) among others and am really happy that this has been achieved with maturity.

After all this time I've been here I see ESATO like its something close to me. I feel a relationship created between us and feel bad when the site is down due to a problem and cannot reach etc. Am not one of the veterans regarding the time that are joined here but I wish I could offer more to ESATO.

I believe am not the only one who feels that way but many others as well!

PS: After reading all this I feel kind emotional at the moment. A big hug please!

Posted by Vlammetje
Quote:

On 2004-06-23 15:17:00, MixiN wrote:
So you've not learnt much during your stay at esato then?




I have learnt, 'much' is already debatable, but I do NOT have the answer to most questions, no matter how long I've been here.

Posted by scotsboyuk
@energetic

Whilst passionate and certainly touching, I'm not quite sure if your comments have much to do with the issue of the post count. I love Esato too, but I would love to see it with a lot less tosh posted and members with a greater sense of equality. Terms such as 'veteran' and 'newbie' that we bandy around, what do they actually mean, what exactly defines a 'veteran' and what defines a 'newbie'? If it is post count then it isn't an accurate estimation of that member's knowledge or regard within Esato, the same is also true of the date joined.
These sort of issues have previously been discussed in this thread http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=43104 and I don't think it is necessary to go over them in detail here. I suggested scrapping the post count because I believe that it would make Esatonians a lot more equal, without status symbols members cannot confer it upon themselves; those members who are knowledgeable and provide help to others would become known through reputation, thus earning respect through the help and information they provide, not because of a number.

Posted by mixin
But you know more about SE products since you've joined. And cos you've been here a year and been active, which is obvious by your post count, i'd say my theory fits right into place.

Posted by scotsboyuk
Incidentally, all this debate is raising our post counts as we type!

Posted by energetic
@scotsboyuk

You mentioned the following

"those members who are knowledgeable and provide help to others would become known through reputation, thus earning respect through the help and information they provide, not because of a number."

I agree with you in some respect but what really defines reputation and respect through the help and information providing to others?

Remember what happened in my case with the "P800 turning into P900" thing? Until that time my credibility was quite stable lets say and I created one topic and got blamed for quite a lot of things regarding this issue.

I know exactly what you mean and what is your point about the Post Count but like Laffen said there is a reason to keep this working.

Posted by scotsboyuk
@energetic

Your counter-point is well taken, one 'bad post' can upset someone's standing, but if someone is helping others on a regular basis I would think that would stand them in good staid. I still feel that the post count is divisive, members with low post counts can sometimes feel they are not fully a part of the forum or that they are looked down upon by other members; on the other hand those with high post counts can sometimes become somewhat arrogant in their approach towards those with low post counts. I just feel that we should be looking at ways to make everyone feel more equal.

Posted by mixin
i think we need someone with a low post count to contribute in this convo.

Posted by slattery69
i dont see how no post count would stop some members been arrogant to others thats probably just how they are and i dont see it making any difference to new members apart from not posting any old thing to get there post count up. Either way i dont really care and most others dont seem to reading this thread

Posted by batesie
Quote:

On 2004-06-23 16:06:56, slattery69 wrote:
Either way i dont really care and most others dont seem to reading this thread



This message was posted from a Nokia




Spot on mr slattery.


Posted by scotsboyuk
@slattery69

You have completely missed the point, many of us are windbags, myself especially, and simply love to pontificate on subjects which have little relevance to neither man nor beast, that and some of us have a lot of free time to fill.

@MixiN

I suppose it is quite ironic that most of the people taking part in this discussion are members who have more than five hundred posts, and in some cases quite a substantially more.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-06-23 16:11 ]


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