Posted by boto43
No youre wrong, they have higher prices of gas I mean Germany.
its still
But If I compare to socialist era when the price of gas was around 2 CSK its very expensive . Nobody has wanted to accept to communist
any more.Now all ppl in our country should be happy with price of gas.Thats a free market. Or maybe I am wrong.
Posted by Sammy_boy
All this raises a good point though. I wonder what the average salaries are in each country in the EU? I think the average salary in the UK is about £20,000 a year (Not sure what is is in Euros), someone correct my figure if it's wrong, or give us a translation into Euros please!
Petrol is a ridiculous amount over here though! Mind you, I think that new cars in other countries are taxed a lot more than the UK, so I gues it evens out in the end!
Posted by Atlis
£ 22K is about 35K @boto - I've spent some time in Belgium and gas was equal and diesel was cheaper in november last year. Cheaper. And still is.
Posted by Jim
0,86/L for the Diesel
Posted by boto43
Jim is that true? Ok ,Atlis is right.Diesel is not important to me couse I drive on gas.
Posted by Atlis
Diesel in Belgium was for 0.71 /L... Gas about 0.9
Posted by Jim
Yes it's true, I make 100km everyday and I'm driving on diesel
Here is the Belgian Q8 site with prices. Check the date/Diesel and it's "incl." ( with taxes )
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Atlis
What I do know about Eastern European countries is that they are cheaper for many things when compared to the UK and that their populace's average wage is considerably below that of the UK.
The UK is the most heavily taxed country in Europe. Our taxes include:
Income Tax
National Insurance
Council Tax
Road Tax
Capital Gains Tax
Stamp Duty
VAT
Alcohol Duty
Tobacco Duty
Petrol Duty
Inheritance Tax
Property Tax
Savings Tax
Airfare Tax
Duty on excess goods brought into UK from abroad
There are plans to tax coffins, 'dubbed the 'Death Tax'.
Posted by Atlis
@Scot - all these taxes are the same in our country, but that's not the point. When I've been in Belgium, I tried to compare the prices and salaries and I realized that life in the West is approx. 3 times cheaper than in the East... You must see how much do we earn in comparison to you. What is cheaper for you, doesn't mean, that's cheap for us.
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Atlis
I fully understand the concept a country being more expensive to live in, relatively speaking, because of low wages, however, I still hold to my point that the UK is a more expensive country to live in than Slovenia (please correct me if that is not where you are from). Although you will no doubt have many of the same taxes as we do, I very much doubt is they are as high as our taxes, even when speaking in relative terms.
If one looks at fuel duty for example, then the UK has a higher percentage of the price of a litre of petrol going to tax than any other country in Europe.
If someone in Britain dies and leaves an estate worth more than a certain amount then half of that will be taken in tax.
An extremely large percentage of the cost of a packet of cigarettes in Britain is tax.
Road tax increases as the size of your car increases, so that anyone with larger cars or more than one car will be paying a considerable sum in tax.
If you are buying a house worth more than a certain amount then you have to pay a tax on the house.
Everyone has to pay a tax to their local council. This tax is set at a certain amount and everyone must pay regardless of how much one earns, so rich and poor alike pay the same amount.
Income tax in Britain increases from 22% to 40% when one earns more than £30,500 a year. If one were to earn £30,501 a year then one would have to pay 40% income tax, although a salary of £30,500 would incur the lesser rate of 22% (which is still far too high in my opinion). This tax is automatically deducted from your wages each month (or however frequently you are paid).
In addition to paying income tax there is also National Insurance, which is used to fun the NHS. This tax is again taken directly from one's wages and the amount is calculated on the amount earned.
We must also consider the fact that Britain has some of the highest prices in Europe (indeed the world) and that although £20,000 maybe the average wage, there are a great deal of people who earn no where near this figure.
Britons would be a great deal richer if we didn't have to support such a large infrastructure, thus the average wage is lower than it would be if we didn't have to pay such high taxes. If we compare Britain and Slovenia then we can see that the British taxpayer is asked to contribute taxes to support, not only, free health care and education systems, but also our armed forces, which have a nuclear capability and global intervention capacity. I am not for one second suggesting that we should not support our armed forces; who do an absolutely superb job and who fully deserve our support, but if our commitments are compared to Slovenia's then I think we can see a very interesting picture. Slovenia has a population of just under two million people, I am not aware of the current health care arrangements in Slovenia, but at any rate providing free health care for two million people is a lot easier and cheaper than providing free health care for sixty million people. Slovenia’s armed forces are in no way intended to fight a global war and without the advanced weaponry and equipment of the British Armed Forces cost considerably less to upkeep.
The point I am making is that Britain, although the fourth richest country in the world, is also one of the most heavily taxed. If you think that the British people are rich in comparison to Slovenians then you would be quite mistaken. We do have a higher standard of living in the UK than you do in Slovenia, but that is partly because we pay so much in taxes to support such a system.
One of the reasons that so many Britons go abroad to live is because other countries are so much cheaper and don't demand such high taxes. You may very well find that now you are in the EU that your taxes start to go up, all those farm subsidies have to be paid for somehow. I for one would like to see less tax and a great deal more sense when spending taxpayer's money.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-05-21 16:21 ]
Posted by boto43
As I know Atliscomes from Slovakia :-D
Posted by Atlis
@boto - thank you...@scot - first think, which comes to my mind after reading your really interesting economical analysis is that you must be scotish... ;-) unfortunately I don't have detailed information about UK and Slovakia, but I should try to find out some info and compare this to states. And one detail - you have to pay your Royal family, and this costs painful fortune... Armed Forces - your Tornados are incredibely expensive to keep and you are about to buy new Eurofighters and sb must pay...
Posted by Jim
Who cares about who pays more taxes, we all do and it sucks
Btw here is my receipt for the Diesel to prove the real prices now, as you can see it's from today at 10h and I made a mistake it's not 0,86 it's 0,83
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Atlis
The Royal Family cost the taxpayer approximately £35 million per year, but they generate hundreds of millions in tourism for Britain and promote British businesses abroad, generating more money for Britain. The cost therefore is extremely small in comparison.
Your point about the cost of military upkeep is in agreement with my earlier comments.
Posted by Gezza
Upkeeping d Armed Forces, d Navy costs a huge sum everywhere i reckon. Cold war started again thx 2 some foolish guys. Anyway, practising peace pays far better than preparing 4 war.
Posted by Atlis
@scot - 100% right, but doesn't matter how hard you will try to persuade me, I will still say that life in the W. is cheaper and prices in the E. are unadequate to our salaries. Btw-what's your job?
Posted by kinc
The way i see it about the Eu is that people will always believe what your country and media tell you, generally this will mean all the negatives.
There is a rise in the BNP party in the UK because of scare mongering about the new influx of migrants to the country. Anyway i believe that as Great Britian once held three quarters of the world we can hardly complain!
It's gonna take time even the scots don't like us.
Anyway that's enough from me welcome one and all.
Posted by Gezza
Atlis, if u asked me, im an English teacher in Hungary. I could also complain about my salary, but dats da last thing i would do. I see da way of progress in my life.
Posted by Atlis
Kinc - you are not right about me and media - I've spent sometime abroad and I know what I'm talking about... @Gezza - cool mate!
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Atlis
You seem to be taking an extremely naive view of life in Western Europe. You may look at the UK and see higher wages than in Slovakia and a better standard of living, but you are only seeing a part of the overall picture. You are also failing to take into account nations such as Norway or Ireland where again the level of tax is extremely high and goods and services are highly expensive.
Many people in Britain earn no where near the £20,000 average salary that has been quoted and most of the population have debt in one form or another. The reason that many people in Britain are able to afford two cars and holidays abroad is because they borrow money from banks to maintain their lifestyles. It is an unfortunate situation that many people are unable to avoid because a very large part of their salary is eaten up by tax. Even after they have paid their direct taxes to the government there is also VAT on most goods and services as well as some products having a special duty impose don them, these charges make things more expensive and result in people giving yet more of their money in tax. If someone does borrow money from a bank then they have to pay it back, usually with interest thus using up more of their salary.
The UK is one of the worst countries in Europe for personal debt; people are borrowing more and more. I will wager than most of the Slovak population are not crippled by credit card or loan repayments, because many of them won't have either of these things. There are many people in Britain who would quite happily trade places with someone from Eastern Europe if it meant they didn't have the ridiculous amount of debt many in the UK do.
@kinc
I am not awfully sure what you meant in your last post. You state that Great Britain used to rule a quarter of the planet then you accuse the Scots of hating 'us', presumably this is in reference to the English as opposed to Great Britain as your post would seem to suggest.
I would like to point out that I am Scottish, but I consider myself first and foremost British and I have absolutely no ill feeling towards the English.
Great Britain as part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland did indeed rule one quarter of the planet and it is interesting to see how it managed to achieve this. Direct military conquest was often used to secure new territory and it is an important point to make that relative to their populations, Ireland, Scotland and Wales contributed more men to the British army than England did. The Celtic nations were over represented in the British armed forces one could say. Irish, Scottish and Welsh troops marched and fought alongside English troops and administrators and politicians from the Celtic nations also played a large part in running the British Empire.
The sad fact today is that we are ashamed of our Empire and all that it achieved. Everyone focuses on the negative aspects of the British Empire, certainly it is extremely important to recognise that some extremely awful things happened in the Empire, but we should also remember all the good that was achieved.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-05-21 17:35 ]
Posted by Gezza
@Scotsboyuk, it's interesting 2 read yr post. Let me add my experience, what I heard from my friend and ex-colleague Seamus from Derry. After an annual co meeting in a pub, when making friends he seemed filled with grief over considering himself as a subject 2 the Queen and I clearly felt his sorrow about living on a land his country was once robbed of. (No ill intention was meant, I just wanted 2 pinpoint that not every blessed subject is happy about living in GB.)
Posted by Atlis
@scot - that's why our people don't travel, don't have two cars. But the reason is that they weren't used to it, they better go deeper into their pockets or spend their savings. But now after political and economical changes, this trend appears here too... Probably I was blind, but I also worked with some people from UK, and their monthly income was about 3500 - 4000£ - isn't it enough? And when I asked them: is it enough in your country? Answer: average... So?
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Atlis
No amount of money will ever be enough because as you earn more you spend more. £4000 a month is a good salary in Britain, most people in the UK earn considerably less than that, so the people you spoke to were probably quite comfortable.
As Slovakia is now a member of the EU you will no doubt notice prices and taxes rising, but hopefully the average Slovakian wage should also rise too.
Posted by Atlis
No, we have now one general tax - 19% - one of the lowest in EU. But I know what you're trying to tell me. The situation in our country is worsening, but later on, things will go better I hope. :-) keep smilin' scot, nothing is as bad as it seems...
Posted by boto43
As I can read your posts here I think no doubt that political and economic system in capitalism is sick.
Globalization and monopolization of the system is the biggest mistake of capitalism.Almost nobody is happy and satisfied in your country.
Average ppl can hardly earn such amount of money to be happy with it.I don't know why but it seems to me the same as the era of socialism in my country.
Posted by boto43
@ Atlis 19 % tax in our country is VAT - value added tax.
I'm afraid we a have lot of other taxes.
_________________
Love toshiba
& 
hope they dont destroy my life 
[ This Message was edited by: boto43 on 2004-05-21 17:54 ]
Posted by scotsboyuk
Europe is not overtly capitalistic when compared with the U.S.; indeed Europe has always had a much stronger socialist trend. One only has to look at the American health care system to see what extreme they are willing to take capitalism there. Europeans see state run hospitals and free medical care as a right, not a privilege. We are very lucky in Europe that we have struck this balance, even if it isn't always the best, it allows millions of people access to free health care and education as well as housing, but to name a few of the provisions.
Posted by boto43
Who has free healthy system in Europe.We dont have.We have to pay for every single visit of doctor.On the other hand thats only symbolic payment- around a half euro when i translate it.
Posted by Elrond
And you must pay to your insurance company and for the medicine. It's not free.
Posted by scotsboyuk
It's free in the UK.
Posted by boto43
My god,really?
We had the free medical care during of time socialism.
Now we have to pay for everything.
Posted by scotsboyuk
I believe they also have free medical care in Belgium and various other European nations. Which nations have free medical care?
Posted by Sammy_boy
I think another reason people aren't happy in the UK is that we look to other countries - like Spain, Greece, and quite possibly Eastern Europe - and think they have a better life there.
And I'm not just talking about wages and cost of living - the UK has seen recently what seems like an anhialation (sorry about spelling!) of family and moral values. It appears that materialism and selfishness rule here, while it looks like actually being nice to other people hasn't gone out of fashion in those countries like it has done here. You can't turn on a TV here without seeing some 'starting over' programme about other people emigrating to other countries as they've had enough of the long hours, binge drinking, 'violence is cool' culture in the UK. Don't get me wrong by the way, I love my country, what it stands for, it's green and pleasant lands, and what's left of the British sense of fair play, I still wouldn't swap being British for any other nationality.
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I often am!), life in countries like those I mentioned above seems much better - there's still a sense of community, your town centres don't become no-go areas on Friday/Saturday night because of twats, and you will help your neighbour out instead of moaning to him about how his fence is a foot too tall. You may not arguably have as much as people in the UK, but I bet you are happier people as a whole because your crime rates are lower and you don't have ridiculous diktats coming out of politically correct local council offices for petty rules and regulations.
Rant over!
Posted by scotsboyuk
@Sammy_boy
Here here!
Posted by kinc
@ scotsboy my tongue was firmly in my cheek about Scots not liking the English.
@atlis I was not referring to anyone in particular. I do not have your experience of working abroad, sorry if you were offended.
Generalization will happen on this thread imo, but no one knows all, except goverments maybe!!!!
_________________
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers-- Picasso
[ This Message was edited by: kinc on 2004-05-21 19:32 ]
Posted by Sammy_boy
I suspect this argument about where has the best quality of life will run and run, different areas have different advantages.
As I said in my earlier thread, from my limited travelling experience, people appear happier in other countries, leading a simpler but more enriched lives with regards to family, friends and lifestyle, but people in the UK/US etc. have more possessions, the latest gadgets, flashy cars, but are more lonely as they spend most of their time at work, watching TV, getting pissed or just not having the time to speak to family and/or friends.
Edit: Taken out part of post that was badly worded, and offening people
_________________
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke
[ This Message was edited by: Sammy_boy on 2004-05-21 21:48 ]
Posted by Atlis
Btw does anyone of you guys from western block - as Sammy said really know where Slovakia, hungary etc is without checkin' it on map? Sammy - I'm not sure if you do, because I'm not sure that 18 - 25 years old ppl drive Ferraris... I'm sick of new bmws, mercedeses, audis on the roads - I mean newest ones. We can buy these cars, but not when 20 - don't think common people in UK can aswell. We don't live on trees and in huts as you think...
Posted by Sammy_boy
@Atlis, I think you misunderstood me! I was trying pointing out that perhaps some of us in the west are too materialistic, and the differences between our people, I wasn't trying to say that we were better than you, or that former Eastern bloc countries were backward.
If I inadvertently did, then I am sorry
btw, I drive a 3-year old Vauxhall/Opel Corsa, and am certainly not rich! And unfortunately I am now just too old to fit into the 18-25 category, I'm now 26
Posted by michka
| Quote: |
|
Well, medical care is not exactly free in Belgium. It is more like a kind of an insurance, and you get only partly refunded from your expenses.
Kind of an insurance because you don't have the choice: part of your income taxes pays the system, proportionaly to your annual income.
The idea behind it is not that it should be totally free, but more that everybody can afford it, even in the case of astronomical amounts and low wages. Big operations will be almost completely refunded, but common pain relief pills you have to pay by yourself entirely.
Posted by boto43
Sorry I think you're a little young especially Atlis thinks the way typical young ppl around their twentieth.It's not so important to drive a car like bmw and so on.They are many more important and worthy things in our life.And remember more money more problems.I have relized it one nice day when
I almost got heart attack.Reason of all my problems was always how to useful invest my money.
Sorry once more pls,I didn't want to offend to anyone.
No young ppl over all the world think have enough money.
_________________
Love toshiba
& hope they dont destroy my life
[ This Message was edited by: boto43 on 2004-05-21 22:06 ]
[ This Message was edited by: boto43 on 2004-05-21 22:12 ]
Posted by michka
| Quote: |
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Oh, you got trees?
Posted by Sammy_boy
@boto -sorry to hear about ur heart attack, hope ur ok now. Don't think you've offended anyone, I think ur spot on, many ppl put money above everything else, certainly the case in UK. I just hope the rest of Europe doesn't get as bad as here, if they haven't already done!
Posted by boto43
Yes my dear young friend,I've got 5 apples,2 apricots,2 peaches,2 plums tree in my garden.Hope that's enough.If you need some fruits no problem to me.Everything is ecological very clean I just use s**t.
Posted by boto43
No,no I said I almost got heart attack.I didn't have.I was lying one week in hospitals with blood pressure 160/110.That was stress.
Posted by michka
Young friend?
How old are you then?
Older than me, then you saw the dinosaurs disappear.
Posted by boto43
45,I'd like to be 20 or 30 but it's not possible.
Sorry for my inconvenience.
Posted by Elrond
Yeah, we got trees. I have too some trees in my garden.
We can have BMW's too, if we want. Next year I can afford one myself (I'm 22 year old), but for what are cars? House is more important if you don't will live in your car. We need first some house or flat to come home.
Posted by michka
No offense, boto.
20? How was that again?
I am 59 but still
Posted by boto43
good to know for me that so old fart is here .I am glad not to be so old as you .59 is not young. u should start pension thread.
Posted by Jim
*of topic* Hi michka where do you live in Brussels. Btw I'm 19 years old