Posted by boto43
Hello every1! What do u thing about terrible Spanish tragedy? Who is responsible? Are we still safe in Europe?
Posted by roobi
Hi! I think Europe was never safe! For me personally it wasn't! But after Eu made with middle east (etc...) I can't wonder! But in any way soever it is not fair with civilians, but it refer for Eu too!
Posted by *Jojo*
As I have seen yesterday at CNN/BBC, Aznar was just unseated as Spain's Prime Minister. The newly elected one wants the Spanish troops sent to Iraq by his predecessor be pulled-out at once. As the majority of the Spanish people also wanted too. They don't want to be involved with the US' active participation in the rebuilding of Iraq and Afghanistan. As the terrorists/bombers made very convincing statements thru a letter that they will attack nations which has a loyal participation in attacking Iraq and the Afghan countries, more bombings to come, accdg. to them. The Spanish gov't ruled out ETA's masterminding the said tragedy - the worst so far in Spain's 'terroristic-attack's' history.
Nobody's safe anywhere anymore, even if you are situated in the South or North Poles, even Antarctica perhaps.
As the US, being noted as the safest haven before, was attacked by the Al-Qaeda network - as a sign of revenge.
Maybe it is very timely for the people of NASA to study the possiblities of life in Mars, perhaps in due time, we can live our lives there - only the martians to take care of then !
[ This Message was edited by: jojo51069 on 2004-03-15 21:45 ]
Posted by roobi
I think that in these situation like this I'm in safety!
Posted by BobaFett
As jojo wrote, nobody is safe anymore. Thx d great ideas of mr bush. War against terrorism?!? Its a joke. Same as war against communism at once. U cannot fight with against a faith, theory, way of thinking whatever with guns...
Posted by roobi
You'r right! But I can not understand why always europe? Why not america? Their aircafts were the first, and they wanted the most the war when nato was bombarded over 80 days us!
Posted by BobaFett
Spain went with d uk and us hand in hand in2 a war hoping 4 some oil. d question is who helped who in spain? think eta and al-quaida did it 2gether, or at least helped each other so or so. its politic, here r no questions and answers b4. just conclusions
Posted by skin
I work on the railway here in the UK. We've been put onto a "Significant Alert" for the foreseeable future!!
Posted by sn3ipen
Nah i think we are pretty safe. As long as we continue to fight against the terorism the world will not go under but if we just sit back and do nothing with the terorists it may be dangerous.
Posted by Miss UK
It doesn't matter about trains the terrorists are very sly and they could target anywhere really police might be high alerted on public transport at the mo due to the disaster in spain but deep down AL-QUAEDA r planning there next attack elsewhere could be anywhere a Hospital, a shopping plaza there the busy places :-l
Posted by Elrond
It's sad, that you're not safe anywhere. Even not in your own house :-(. They could strike anywhere and you wouldn't know till it's gonna happen.
Posted by brownface
Unfortunately, the western world ( and by that i mean countries such as US, UK etc) hav started a war wit an enemy they cant see, but they themselves r visible 2 d enemy. The whole situation is F**KED.
Posted by bonito99
Such a tragedy! No one will condone such accus of terror.
Posted by snap-hiss
I can see the anti west (mainly anti US) point of view. I am an American and I understand that Bush is very up front about his Christianity. It certainly seems he's converting the US into a Christian state while pushing his values on the world. To the Islamic community, esp the militant Islamic factions this is a question of survival.
So I see their point of view and where they're coming from, but killing isn't the way to handle it.
!snap
Posted by Vlammetje
well...... in the point of view of Islamic ppl.... a good christian is not an enemy (better a belief then no belief at all) but they certainly do not see bush as a christian!
They seem him as a greedy fcuk who wants to take take take and does not give a damn about other nations and other ppl.
@boba: not a chance in the world that ETA and al qaeda were in it together. They don't have even remotely similar ideas.
Posted by boto43
Yes, I dont think there's link between Eta and muslims.
Posted by snap-hiss
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Um?
!snap
Posted by boto43
@ snap, what does ur hm mean? You think both are wrong? Why ? You didn't explain anything.
Posted by Vlammetje
I think he is not following my statement muslims do not hate christians.
They do not. they hate the western world which is not Christian per se. Also not all christians are westerners.
They hate western culture, lack of morale and lack of religious traditions. They see most of us as this greedy, godless bunch.
Capice?
Posted by BobaFett
Think terror organizations r on a way 2 globalizing. Their target is d destruction and with it keeping attention of their existance, why not 2gether? D world is on this way too.
Posted by nabraxas
They hate the idea of a free society. Where nothing is limited and you can do what you like (Within means).
Their culture doesn't really accept that women can work and use the internet, etc. So for some reason they feel they can terrorise us because we live in a free society.
Posted by Vlammetje
wrong again. their culture does allow women to work. they know women teachers, women lawyers, women business executives.
They have 'values' in high esteem and in their opinion we do not.
Posted by ares
The thing that disturbs more the europeans is that Bush invaded Iraque because of terrorism, and the world became more dangerous instead of more safe. The so called war against terrorism is being lost.
My opinions is that the problem can only be solved when the Middle East question is solved. And only the US can solve it, if they want.
Posted by Elrond
Al Qeada is responsible for that. They showed response for the atack in Spain. They said, it was a revange, that Spain support U.S. president Bush and his war against terrorism. Here's a link to the article on CNN.
Posted by Dj Boyi
Iraq WAS a war against terrorism because saddam was paying the familys of the palestinian suicide bombers $25,000 !!! But he aint doing that anymore!
Posted by boto43
I agree with you, Arez. But who has to solve problems in Middle East? Usa ? Or better Israel? What I can remember all problem has been ISR and Arabs states for long times.
Posted by sn3ipen
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That mean that al quaida is coming to england because they are also with bush.
I am only teasing you guys.
Seriusly i think that the only thing we can do is to strike back on the terorism.
Posted by *Jojo*
People here (posters) are politicizing the thread very seriously (as should) - terrorism is no damn joke, our FUTURE lies in the events that transpires in the MOMENT. I guess if tragedies like these (and similar ones) are not well taken cared of, the so-called Third World War is very imminent !
As what is happening right now, I can foresee that it will be a war between 'religions' ! I think that America is doing all the best, some may not totally agree with me here, so that we can have a 'safe' planet -(mother earth) to live in. They are sacrificing their people by sending them to war-torn nations like Haiti, Bosnia, Africa even here in my place - the Philippines, they are having some war-exrecises, taking some chances of eradicating the Abu-Sayyaf (muslim extremists) who have kidnapped a number of foreigners. The American people may just ignore things that are happening now - war etc., But they think that if major things/events like these are not taken cared of in the earliest possible time, the dilemma might escalate in such uncontrollable proportions in the latter end, so better start moving now before it's really too late. I guess, The Americans are acting like the 'PEACEKEEPERS' of our planet. Attacks in Iraq and the same are just an advance move they made, to prevent future tragedies. They say that they have invaded Iraq to gets it's nation's very wealthy oil reserves, if so, then why did they (USA) not control Kuwait's oil refineries when they helped it in 1990? - when attacked by Saddam Hussein ??? Now, they are giving the Iraqi people a free hand of having it's own new government being formatted in place - will have it in a few month's time as reported in CNN.
This has become an era wherein, people are given the free choice of choosing beween GOOD or EVIL, it's up to us believers where are we taking sides.
Just remember, that people do not AGREE/FIGHT in 3 MAJOR TOPICS/CHOICES in LIFE:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. Food
Meaning, let's just respect EACH others opinions here OK ?
And what's your take ?
Posted by snap-hiss
hahaha, that CS pic is great
!snap
Posted by *Jojo*
@snap-hiss - THANKS! mate I really needed that at times, specially now that some of our 'old-timer' members are criticizing my posting of too-much unrelated images . . .I guess this time I was 'on-topic' mates !!!
Posted by ares
The war against terrorism is a different you cant win by invading countries...its won with secret services activities, specially undercover operations, and ending the situations that give the terrorists their motif and the reason to some poor people support them - for instance the israeli-palestinian problem. I make the question: do the people in the west feel more safe now with the way choosed by bush and allies since the 11September? No way.
Posted by snap-hiss
and ending the situations that give the terrorists their motif and the reason to some poor people support them
I couldn't agree more.
!snap
Posted by *Jojo*
@arez - the Israel-Palestine conflict is a loooong unresolved problem - since time immemorial ! I am seeing archive photos of the 3 presidents (US, Israel & Palestine) shaking hands way back then - during the time of Jimmy Carter. I guess it will still be unresolved till the next decade or so. Topic at hand his very fragile, specially now that countries are taking sides as to whom will the support etc. As to the secret service you are talking about, maybe the FBI and CIA and it's foreign counterparts are doing all the spying among nations, as for what I know - secret service are only used in the US soil, unless the US president has foreign trips abroad, they will act as an advance party in his behalf then. Just like what transpired here in Manila, secret service came in almost 3 weeks in advance to survey the place before President Bush came - and all activities went on very smoothly.
Posted by boto43
Really good discussion guys and ladies. It's easy seen you are interested in politics and care about our (EU) future. When I launched the thread I didn't expect such a big interest about the thing. Our prime goal should be more safe Europe and World as well.
Posted by Vlammetje
secret services are most definitely not only active on US territory. Why do you think there are so many satellites out there? It's most naive to assume they would only spy on their own country... spying by nature has a large focus on things happening outside ones controllable area
as for Israel, I don't think there will ever be a solution. Poor 'normal citizens' on both sides will suffer forever, because there are to many ppl blinded by hate and violence that keep striking and killing every dialogue. The way to peace lies not in violence in the end..... but us humans we cannot see it
Posted by FluffyBunny
I'd like to add that if it is Al-Quaida who did the operation in Spain, then the spanish government did something bad to pull back the troops in Iraq.
I am not saying that I agree with the Iraq-invasion, but I'm saying that the new socialist-government basically just made terrorism of this sort "pay off"!
I hope you all get what I mean...
Posted by Saka
@Arez: You wrote the only meaningful post in this thread.Good to see that at least someone thinks with his head instead of with TV.@most others: have an opinion, whichever it is, but make sure it's yours!
Posted by Vlammetje
@fluffybunny I'm afraid I know exactly what you mean
I had thought of that. The signal is that by applying lots of vioelnce and killing many innocent ppl, they will get to have it theri way and we will crawl back under our rocks
I guess this could be true.... but then again would there have been an attack if there were no troops in Iraq?? We don't know do we? Is it linked to the actual presence or is it linked to the footage of Bush, Blair and Aznar on some atol islands??
Or is it not linked to anything at all but just an act of blind indiscriminate aggression against the West?
@saka...... the simple fact that you don't agree to most posts does not make them invalid, now does it. Discussions only happen in case of different opinions
and with an audience as broad as here... you're likely to see a lot of ideas that are not your own, not based on TV footage or anything, but just on a different perception.
_________________
If at first you don't succeed,
look in the trash for the instructions.
[ This Message was edited by: Vlammetje on 2004-03-17 10:15 ]
Posted by FluffyBunny
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Of course the "war against terror" is won through covert operations rather than large-scale invasions etc.
Though, you must keep in mind that there are factors that fuel hatred, in this time of age against american interests / american-friendly nations, that originates in (for example) the Israel / Palestine conflict.
There has been no steps from the US to somehow end (or at least ease) that conflict, which is one root of all the evil that happens.
Then, of course, the american governments have done things against other (sovereign) states. Chile is such a state, where a democratically elected leader&his administration got over-thrown by the work of the leadership of the US.
There is always more than one side to a story, but terrorism, either if it's done by indviduals like Bin Laden or states, is horrible!!!
Posted by Vlammetje
The US won't want to burn their hands on israel.... do you have any idea how immensely powerful the Jewish lobby in the USA is?
They'll never touch Israel mark my words
Posted by FluffyBunny
@Vlammetje If it was an Al-Quaida-connected action, then there will be more, not only in Europe, but I think in the US as well!
It's total crap that people can't feel secure in their cities, on the trains, flights, ships and so on...
Posted by ares
My only certainty is that whe´ll face dangerous times in the decade ahead, everywhere
Right now here in Portugal everibody is worried about the possibilitie of attacks during the Euro 2004. There be people from all western people here, and in other hand Portugal did also support the invasion of Iraq.
My opinion is that Al Quaeda won´t attack in such an event, when security is prepared an high, they prefer the surprise...but you never know
Nevertheless, I already have tickets for the two games here in Coimbra, my hometown, and i´m looking forward to it
Posted by Vlammetje
well.... the EURO 2004 and the Olympics would provide excellent opportunities for making a lot of casualties
and getting worldwide attention (thus creating a worldwide spread of fear)
Posted by FluffyBunny
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Unless the american government actually do something in that area, there will never be longlasting peace, and more terror against both the american population and others in the "west".
Perhaps it's too late, even though Clinton took some steps in the right direction...
Posted by k786uk
...
[ This Message was edited by: k786uk on 2007-10-31 12:38 ]
Posted by FluffyBunny
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We *will* face danger? Well... there has been danger throughout the 80ies (when Saddam received american support <- note) and the 90ies (spread terror-attacks, even when it comes from americans attacking americans)... But yes, there will be more and more I'm afraid...
(edited due to lame spelling
)[ This Message was edited by: FluffyBunny on 2004-03-17 10:37 ]
Posted by ares
@k786uk,
It wasn´t ETA, there are too many proofs that it wasn´t right now.
Posted by k786uk
...
[ This Message was edited by: k786uk on 2007-10-31 12:38 ]
Posted by Vlammetje
I think it wasn't ETA because ETA has no beef with the people on the train. ETA has issues with political Spain... not the man-in-the-street if you will. The Basque man-in-the-street does not want to be a part of a slaughter like this..... and ETA needs the support. Don't think it was them.
Posted by FluffyBunny
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I hope they leave the olympics alone, cause someone I hold very dear is down there!
(me bebeh)