Posted by richy240
What is this all about? Why is "mobile nine" banned from Esato?
Posted by sn3ipen
because laffen say so. thats it about that case and there is nothing we can do about it.
Posted by Vlammetje
It would appear as if there are no 'real' 'tangible' criteria as to which sites get banned and which don't. Ask laffen.
Posted by bart
what where why
Posted by richy240
I sent laffen a private message. I hope I get a response.
I guess we'll see.
Posted by 50Cent
let us know if you do.
Posted by augustborn9917
@richy,
chances are you wont get a response back, there is no criteria. i have had posts physically edited just to edit the word "a site".
"a site" is also on the banned list. a reasonable person could probably deduce why these sites are banned. kinda petty really.
(screen cap)
Posted by augustborn9917
m o b i l e 9 = a site
m y t 6 1 0 = a site
Posted by Krubach
laffen probably doesn't want to have any problems by allowing links to illegal sites.
He has enough problems for sure...
Posted by laffen
See this topic for info about why sites are banned http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=40504
Posted by augustborn9917
@ laffen.
some members who link M o b i l e 9: vinnieza, vlamm, expert 21, carlsberg. some are >500 post club whos done/doing their time giving back to ESATO. it should not be a crime to show off a theme in the proper forum and just post a link of where it can be downloaded from.
*ultimately, it is your site. and you can do whatever you want to do.
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[ This Message was edited by: augustborn9917 on 2004-03-12 16:52 ]
Posted by richy240
@EVERYONE
Check this page specifically: http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=40504&start=120
Posted by sn3ipen
@Laffen
I have to agree with you in that some sites should ofcorse be banned from esato but i think that mobile 9 is a great forum for the thememakers and then they come here to promote the themes that they have hosted on mob9. I dont think they are doing it to promote for mob9.
Posted by vinnieza
I know i post m9's website link around alot, but only beacuse i'm trying to help a user, or tell people where to download my themes.
But anyway, laffen is the boss and what ever he says goes
Posted by richy240
I understand that laffen is the boss, but I visit these forums multiple times daily and I find it a hassle not being able to post a link to m9.
I don't like being censored, even at such a low level. The internet isn't supposed to be like that.
laffen did respond to my PM directly by the way, so you've got to respect that.
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[ This Message was edited by: richy240 on 2004-03-13 04:57 ]
Posted by Dj Boyi
I'll prolly get banned 4 this but its gotta be said :-l "Its nice to see that laffen gets an esato bookmark placed in lots of new SE phones lately(there was a thread about it ;-) )but when it comes to the 'end user' wanting to show their creations off,well thats another story". Bye! :-D
Posted by Vlammetje
I cannot open the link laffen posted, but I sure hope it takes of the following common belief: that Esato only bans sites with illegal content. That is not exclusively the case and by allowing that misconception to exist you do create a be name for sites that have never been in esatos way.
| Quote: |
On 2004-03-12 17:28:52, Krubach wrote: laffen probably doesn't want to have any problems by allowing links to illegal sites. He has enough problems for sure... |
Posted by vinnieza
@vlamm, this is what laffen said:
| Quote: |
The reason why I sometimes ban certain sites is because the owner (or very enthusiastic member) uses the Esato forum to write an announcement every time they update or add some content to the site. Other reasons could be that the site is commercial, competitive site advertising for similar products found on Esato (games, ringtones etc.). I tend to get fed up with such members, and usually send them a PM about this before a ban become active. Most of these bans are cause by the posting pattern of the poster. If an Esato forum member is helpful and also answer questions but occasionally write the address of his site in posts, the "advertising" will be accepted. |
source: http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=40504&start=131
Hope this helps
edit: but i don't do taht, i have a theme thread and i have now placed (it was there before the ban as well) the address of where my themes are located because i got bored of typing the address out each time someone asks, and all i do it post my theme preview and ask for commenst, i wouldn't call that posting the address each update, also i do post it alot when i help members.
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[ This Message was edited by: vinnieza on 2004-03-13 09:15 ]
Posted by Vlammetje
Continued: A lot of themes are made not just for the enjoyment of the thememaker, but to be shared with others. There is even a request thread for them. Given the fact that esato didn't offer a theme upload and feedback function, it is kinda land that we can no longer provide a direct link where somebody can download a theme that was made especially for them. Laffen may be the 'boss' but do we not all come here for our enjoyment? I for one could do without the hassle of having to guide people to my..
Posted by Vlammetje
... Themes which are on a banned site. Ot: how annoying is this character limit
Posted by Vlammetje
Vin: thanks! However, expert never received said pm from laffen, nor has anybody who regularly links to m9. Must be new policy then
. Also, you and I, along with spawn, august and all the others, must be labelled 'non-helpful' members on esato then.
Posted by augustborn9917
| Quote: |
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yup,...[b]"BECAUSE" we never have contributed anything good at esato. now i am being penalized by making things more difficult for me to post a link to my host site.
Posted by richy240
This is stupid.
Posted by Vlammetje
Not only is linking to m9 banned.... it would appear that moderators also have started actively removing posts that link to M9.
I am sorry...... words cannot express how petty I feel that is.
The argument that 'some over-enthusiastic post-whores' link to it too often (in the eye of the beholder) really does not give Esato the right to remove links to items requested by members that happen to be hosted elsewhere.... specially not since it's legal content.
I am most disappointed in Esato's policies.
Well.... keep on removing mods. You have one hell of a job ahead of you.
Posted by superunknown
can't do anything.
Posted by mixin
| Quote: |
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Surely they can do whatever they hell they wish, because they have access to the all powerful "delete button"
Posted by Vlammetje
They can..... but the argumentation sucks... and to think that some ppl actually MAKE stuff requested by esato members but are not allowed to tell where it's hosted.... does seem a bit ridiculous. I mean... it's not as if esato has a large content hosting facility in place
Posted by verysoon
cool down vlamm... the lift is NOT going to happened. it'll dent someone's ego. just take it easy... i think the banning actually creates more publicity. (what will u be thinking when i tell u dun think bout the colors of the rainbow)
a user with over 50 posts would already know where to go when they needed a theme.
just give the boss here some respect... come what may.
gee... i just figured i m also on the list of "unhelpful ones" that's life.
Posted by Vlammetje
had to get it off my chest though
Tis not healthy to walk around not venting ones anger
Now it's vented and i stand by my words
I feel better already
Posted by mixin
| Quote: |
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Thats a bit of a lousy assumption to make
Posted by Vlammetje
they would most likely just open a thread 'PLEASE HELP! Gimme themes!'
oh well..... no matter....... I've been told the mods will discuss a policy on the matter.... I will simply wait amd see what it is
Posted by richy240
I agree that this ban is stupid and petty. But, as stated many times before, Esato moderators have the power to do whatever they want to... it is their site.
Unfortunately, this is a lame excuse as far as I am concerned. Just because you have power to do something doesn't mean you should do it - just look at G.W. Bush! (I know, this isn't a political forum - sorry.)
I think we have to understand that everyone has an agenda. Esato moderators might be worried their members might go to m9 instead of use Esato. (After all, in my opinion it is a nicer and more complete site all-around.)
I guess we'll see what happens.
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[ This Message was edited by: richy240 on 2004-03-19 14:25 ]
Posted by masseur
you guys keep talking about this being a moderator decision but it is not. this is wholly laffens decision. moderators are only here to enforce the rules and keep some sort of order.
so please don't give us moderators a hard time over this particular issue. ta!
Posted by BritishBulldog
I understand you feeling bad about not being able to show off the themes you have made but at the same time it seems only fair that Administrator blocked other forums which are in competition or because of any of the other factor he already explained.
In my opinion laffen already explained the reasons well and clear in the other thread and all the popular forums do block threads which deliberately or not advertise other forums. Wouldn't you do it if you were the admin and the owner of this forum? I would. Especially when not many of us are contributors (monetory) to this website its only fair what Laffen is doing now.
PS: Someone said above it would be a 'Hell of a task' to delete all the threads with reference to Mobile 9, but don't you think Laffen or the mods could do a search on the word Mobile 9 and delete all those thread at one go?
Posted by Vlammetje
I'm sure he could. And perhaps he might.
As this site is a hobby of laffens (or supposed to be) and the themes and the whole of m9 are also just a hobby site... I completely and utterly fail to see the rivalry
I think 'competition' really is a much too heavy way of thinking about it. I post at many forums but no less at Esato because of it
nor do many others.
It's not as if esato's position is now or was ever in any danger because there are other forums
Besides I fail to see how the 2 sites (M9 in this case) are of any competetion to one another
one being 
oriented one being 'contents and creation' oriented for a diversity of phones. How is there any possible conflict of interest there?
And yes it's laffens site, laffens policy and laffens decision.
This is a forum though. We joined here to voice our opinions on certain things. There is nothing wrong with challenging the stuff yiou don't like. There is nothing wrong with questioning policies and asking for a clearer defined one. At least it'll keep laffen sharp
Posted by richy240
@masseur
You're right. The m9 ban isn't your fault as a monderator. I apologize.
@BritishBulldog
You're a nazi. (Just kidding.) Why would you block your competition? If someone is competing with you and their product is better, that is YOUR problem. This is supposed to be an open forum for free discussion. The fact that laffen is blocking m9 shows that he sees m9 as a threat to Esato's member base. (Because god knows no one is abusing their right to post a link to m9 - that is a bunch of crap, and laffen knows it as well as we do.) I have a theme site, and just because someone designs a nicer theme than me doesn't mean I'm NOT going to post it... That would be stupid.
If laffen doesn't like m9, it isn't because someone is posting a link too often. I believe this firmly.
Posted by Vlammetje
ok... guys pls just chill. I think all has been said that can be said about it.
I deeply hope laffen will think it through and reconsider.
I doubt any fuirther discussion will accomplish anything though. Perhaps it's time to give it a rest again eh? (i know i know... i started this again today.... for a reason... but I don't want this getting out of hand!)
Posted by BritishBulldog
| Quote: |
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@Vlammetje
I never said it is wrong that you voiced your opinion actually I said I
understand your view but what I said is that IMO laffen is not wrong. Also in my previous post I said ''because of competition or for any other reason laffen mentioned earlier'', we never know, not you, but someone might have been posting just to advertise there themes or some one from mobile 9 may have posted many times here jsut ot attract people. Or he may not want to make a precedent by allowing people to use this forum as a jumb board to attract traffic to there personal website. We all know traffic this day means money.
| Quote: |
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@Richy240
You said and I quote, "If someone is competing with you and their product is better, that is YOUR problem". Exactly, Laffen understand that problem and he is dealing with it.
With regard to the competition question again, you are posting others theme in your website because you are offering all of it free (I presume, never been to your site, will do ina moment ) and when you are offering something free and you want to attract more people obviously you need to offer variety and hence you post others themes in it as well. But if you were selling your themes then would you host someone elses themes on your website and watch people buying the other themes in 100s, I think not.
In the same way on a forum like this the amount of traffic is what keeps it going and what provides the life bloood (money). Vlammetje mentioned above this is a hobby of Laffen, I agree but the server this website runs and the time he spends maintaing it costs money and then if he don't wan't to allow others to use his website as a jumbboard then I think its only fair.
PS:This is nothing personal against you or Vlammetje jsut my thoughts
Posted by Vlammetje
i know that
and I appreciate your opinion.
If this site is not to be a 'jumping place' to other forums it would be fairest and best to ban all links to similar sites or mobile sites in general.
What is confusing in the whole bit is that some sites are allowed and some are not.
I wholeheartedly wish for one clear statement for all links to all sites. That way at least the continuous guessing 'what did they do wrong' will be over and we can all get on with our lives
Posted by richy240
@BritishBulldog
You've got a good point, but I still disagree. As Vlammetje stated, laffen should ban all links to other forums, or none at all. This is truely petty. (By the way, I hope you took no offence to the 'Nazi' comment. I really was kidding.)
I built my themes site to promote theme creation and as a hobby - because I like themes and I like web site design. Much like laffen, I assume. He built this site as a hobby because he likes Ericsson (now Sony Ericsson) phones enough to dedicate his time and effort to something like this. And it is free to us.
At this point, I think it is a issue of EGO and not too many links, or whatever crappy excuse laffen came up with. I may have disagreements with other theme sites, but that doesn't mean I'm going to remove links to the sites (once I get the links page online, that is) just because they have a nicer site or more content. That is just stupid.
As far as I am concerned, laffen is worried we will all start using m9 and take away from his (1) daily hits and (2) his ad revenue. And that's that.
Posted by kimcheeboi
I'vew been censored countless times for posting "pm me for info on mophun 4 free" or "recommending m9 or m y t610." Personally, I think it's crap, but as it's laffens site i guess there's nothing i can do about it
Posted by richy240
It IS crap. You aren't doing anything wrong... You are advertising information that other members might be interested in. I would and could confidently argue that this site is based on that very concept.
I might be making a bigger deal out of this than I should, but I have a very problem with being told I cannot do something, whether this is laffen's site or not. m9 directly relates to the topics of this forum, and if we are not allowed to discuss, completely, the topics of this forum then why visit this forum in the first place?
That is my entire argument. I'll probably be banned for this, but hey, there's always m9!
Posted by Vlammetje
| Quote: |
|
I cannot stipulate enough that M9 has NO ILLEGAL content..
'mophun for free' has a higher risk of being illegal and that is AGAINST the esato rules.
It is NOT the same thing in my opinion as linking to a site that has for whatever reason attracted too much attention on this forum.
Posted by vinnieza
| Quote: |
M9 has NO ILLEGAL content |
Vlamm is 100% right there, they even took down their wav files. The mods do a great job there and there is no illeal content what so ever.
Posted by richy240
laffen just doesn't like the competition. That is my guess.
Posted by Vlammetje
but why is it competition anyway?
Posted by TheRealSpawn
Vlam - have I told you lately how beautiful you look when your angry?
Nice thread - Allways fun and interesting with a litle heated discussion - as long as noone insults anyone personally
I would have to agree on many of the statements made here.
Naturally this is ultimately Laffens site/forum - and he can do with it whatever he choose to. I definately also do not want to "attack" any moderators as they are only moderating - meaning only doing what they are sopposed to do - namely maintaining forum according to specified instructions/rules from siteowner.
But I would like to say to Laffen - that Esato is a good forum, visited by many, with many good debates. A forum I like to visit amongst many forums I visit. But one of the things that make a good forum is freedom of speech - and starting to censorship that speech for reasons not based on restrictions by law or human conduct allways degrade the quality of such forums. m9 does absolutely nothing that could conflict with either laws or human conducts. Quite the contrary. Therefore I see no reason why it should be subject for such censorship. Sure it can be seen as a "competitor" - but that should not be seen as a bad thing - competition is allways good - it generelly ups quality all around - and Im absolutely positive that Esato forum would not suffer visitors just because of other forums existence or the mentioning of other forums on Esato. Adding censorship like this however could have that exact effect or it could generate Esato forums a bad rep for being a place where speech is not free - and that would really be a shame.
PS: about competition - I guess Esato Forums main income to cover for expenses to run the site - comes from adverts based on numbers of visitors traffic. One could state that a "competitive" site could generate visitor traffic away from Esato thus lowering possible income. I beleive however that only lowering quality can do that - and there are plenty of "room" for several sites/forums for users to visit.
[ This Message was edited by: TheRealSpawn on 2004-03-20 00:09 ]
Posted by kimcheeboi
I know free mophun posts could be a legal problem for esato, and i don't care that they are removed. However, might not a more friendly relationship between these major sites be better for all of us, esato included?
Posted by Bitch_uk
Armed with my flak jacket
What was the reason for starting this forum?
I have been comming here under various usernames for a long time now and it was home to most (Asterisk it out myself) *******.com members but the pettiness has become more important that the reason behind it. For instance, there will always be more people that want themes than those who actually make them. Some charge, we dont, some rip, we dont and when alerted to uploads of any theme thats not created by the uploader, the theme is then removed. Why do some of us link to there? Because maybe the theme has been requested by an Esato member or to point people to a free helpful site. Laffen wants to go through posts deleting or editing them, then I suggest he spends a couple of hours with us to get to the bottom of it
Posted by richy240
@Bitch_uk
I don't understand what you are trying to say...