Posted by *Jojo*
I am very confused here. As we traditionally celebrate the Christmas Day here in Manila, and as a Roman Catholic by religion we are taught that Jesus was born on December 25th. Years passed by, and I came accrossed to watch the Discovery Channel (thru cable), and saw one of the topics being discussed there is all about the 'true' date when Jesus was really born, of course, I was able to watch also some historical related facts that is really interesting to watch like - who really killed JFK, truth about the deaths of famous personalities like - Princess Diana, Houdini, Jack the Ripper etc. It was told there that it was really impossible for Mary to give birth in the manger during the month of December because of the very frigid weather in Israel, so presumptions were made that Jesus was really born during the month of April - summer time . . . Case still open for possible debaters, theologians, pastors, bishops and even the Pope . . .
Posted by Ayush
Why impossible? 2 give birth in december
Posted by Dj Boyi
Mate,women can give birth at ANY time of year,however cold,wet,hot or dry the weather is! We still have eskimo's thriving in the cold and they have families,get a brain!
Posted by Ayush
Yeah! That's what i say ;-)
Posted by vinnieza
i thought know one actualy knew the date of birth but just said the 25th, don't know why though
Posted by *Jojo*
@boyi - get a brain ??? Well, can you give a good suggesstion then where can I just buy one ??? The facts that I have told in my 1st post was taken from the episode watched ages ago via the Discovery Channel, and besides I guess that there is just some 'deeper' meaning or explanation here to consider than just by reading my texts/post 'verbatim' - dig deeper guys, dig deeper (and bury yourselves in the ditch - just kidding here). I know that you have a very vaild reason/ point thru your responses, but that's how I got the info - no added ingredients as the cooks/chefs would say. More prudent and quite acceptable reponses pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease !!!
[ This Message was edited by: jojo51069 on 2003-12-13 13:57 ]
Posted by Ayush
:-(
Posted by Cycovision
Well, I do recall watching something ages ago that reckoned that christians 'adopted' december 25th because it was already some sort of significant day in an older religion, and nobody new for sure when Christ was born.
Probably a load of crap like, but it's one theory I suppose
Posted by Dj Boyi
jojo must believe everything on the tv is true,you should remember that most stuff on the tv is crap! bullshit! made up! and to make MONEY!
Posted by Cycovision
@boyi
WHAT? You mean that JFK isn't living on the moon with Elvis and Marilyn Monroe and that Michael and Latoya Jackson aren't the same people?
S**t, you've really upset me now
Posted by Jim
Religion is the biggest sect in the world imo ... now let's start the flamming
Posted by *Jojo*
@boyi - well paviljonac started cursing me, my apologies then if I have said some bad words, I don't get irritated that much, but when really provoked I really get mad. About your reply, I just think that Discovery Channel and National Geographic Channel (2 have almost the same topics/features it has in their shows) will not just make/edit episodes that they don't have a full-knowledge about things they are discussing in public, they might just get sued about the people/institutions concerned, not just for MONEY I guess. These are 2 of the most watched shows here in Asia, specially for young kids, where they get infos for their homeworks/assignments. So, they really scrutinized to the very last detail about episodes that will go on air.
[ This Message was edited by: jojo51069 on 2003-12-13 15:01 ]
Posted by Dj Boyi
Sorry cyco,i did'nt mean to spoil your belief's
Posted by vampyriaerotica
May Jesus Christ bless you all......amen!
Posted by Dinger
The big JC was born in the second week of January.
December 25th was the date of the mid-winter solstits (sorry about the spelling ) and the RC church wanted to combat the loss of monies over the winter months.
I hope this helps.
Steve
Posted by dwin_888
advance merry christmas guys!
be happy!
12 more days to go!
stop fightin!
share the love!
Posted by Vlammetje
OK, I'm sure you'll forgive me for not reading this thread after the 4th or so post.
Anyway: we do not know exactly what day jesus was born. We do have reason to believe that our counting of years as starting from his year of birth (the year 0) is actually 5 or 6 years of.
I would think that it is possible to find out what season exactly herodus ordered the people count for which Joseph and Maria travelled to bethlehem, thus pin pointing a month in which he was born.
I can answer the question why the 25th of December is generally accepted for Christmas.
In the old days, when Christian believe was not widely spread, many a culture, including that of my ancestors, celebrated mid-winter. On or around the shortest day of the year (dec 21st) their custom was to light up the trees, make sacifices to their gods and in short beg the daylight to return.
As the missionaries spread, they found that it was very hard to make those people abandon their habits.
So instead, they decided to keep a few of those very persistant 'heathen' rituals and incorporate them into their own celebrations, thus allowing for an easier transition to the new faith.
I think that strategy worked quite well too.
Hope this clarifies the date a little bit
Posted by Del
I remember watching a horizon program a few years ago and they pinned his birth down to the month of september.
Posted by dostick
Posted by pachy
History is not an exact science, the facts change as humans find new ways to examine the evidence, we think WRONGLY that we know most of the facts about the past but remember , it wasnt long ago we thought the earth was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth, we will be laughed about in a thousand years time for thinking we know about the earths creation.
The bible is GOSSIP made into a book. the reason different faiths have different facts is because its all down to interpretation.
If you have an unruly village, someone might come forward to try to convince people to behave sensibley, like being kind & not committing adultery ETC, obviously Jesus was just a diplomatic guy with a believable personality, but he was followed around (like footballers today) & ignorant people decided he was "special" people grasped the stories (all made more interesting with time) & introduced magical events/mircles (or lies as i prefer to call them) to stop the doubters (it happens on forums all the time, people lie to enhance their stories),
the Bible was cobbled together from all the scraps, the Old testement was converted to the New testement to make it EVEN MORE believable & people who had HORRIBLEY MISERABLE lives took refuge in the belief that there was a fantastic afterlife if you obayed all the rules, its just a way of filling in all the gaps that scientists couldnt.
now that Christianity is not "Literal" it matters not which day the bloke was born as all religous celebration has an element of flexibillity in it.
Father Christmas as we know him was invented by the Coca cola company in the thirties.
The entire callender as we know it is "out" according to scientists, so when they calculate where the stars were during construction of the pyramids they have to "Correct" it because leap years were not always included in the original plan.
Most people in countries where Jesus was born dont even know when THEY were born & thats MODERN DAY, because when children they often lied about their age to get work.
Not being surre when Jusus was born is not a hugee problem is it, as we dont even know if he existed or if he did was he an "Ideal" citizen that only existed in several different people over a number of years ???
I mean lets face it, "Pachy" doesnt exist in real life, its just something your reading & YOU have the choice to either "Beleive" or "Not believe".
Posted by *Jojo*
@vlammetje & pachy - those were very revealing statements . . . unilke to those who replied and lacks substance, just to be said that they have replied. I believe that there is a real God out there, and as some would have said it, he is just a supreme human being - above the human standards. Some even said that God is an alien, a supreme one. As they have collaborated with the story of Moses, when he parted the Red Sea so they can pass it, it was said that an alien magic helped Moses do the trick, of course as they say, alens are 2 billion years advance to that of our technology, so it is possible. If it so happen that you walk the path of Jesus in his time carrying with you a SE P900, majority of the Jews would have mistaken you as a God too (of course you have to have those satellites so that your fone will work). But you cannot just feed a thousand hungry people, with your fone alone, just like what Jesus did. Topic still very C O M P L E X indeed, what I need here is a theologian or a messiah !
Posted by pachy
@jojo51069, well how ironic that the Romans (Noted for their clever infrastructure) didn't spot the potential of all those crusifixions of the jews along the sides of the road, as those cross's would have made such good places to hang all the roadside GSM ariels,
as tthe busy Romans made their way to work sniggering as they passed the dying martyrs, they would have been in full signal on there P900's, also the need for an extensive network would have been a fully justifiable reason to speed up the rate of killing.
This sort of multi-use could not be so easily carried out in modern day because their would be far too much "stigmata" attached to it
Posted by *Jojo*
Right there @pachy ! Better stop discussing about Jesus' time, we might just get the bad karma everybody's talking about. Jesus 'plays' too at times, and we might just be the unlucky recipients this time. Let's just discuss about that movie you are talking about, still no clue as to the actors/actresses involved, how about it's director? Under what cinema outfit ???
Posted by BlackBauer24
The Bible does not state that Jesus was born on the 25th of December, and that date is not of any relevance to anyone if the real truth be known, what is relevant to all mankind is what Jesus did, dying on the cross for our sins and rising from the dead with the victory over both sin & death, giving us hope through him that there is life after death.
Posted by sidewinder
AMEN....AMEN....AMEN......
Posted by sulfuriq
I don't believe that Jesus (Isa) is a son of god but a prophet sent to mankind for guidiance just like prophet before and after him. God created this world and others as a test before we all will raise again after armageddon. Jews, christians and muslims serve the same god but due to difference of race and purpose we only see what we want to see.
Posted by pachy
People will do anything now days for a prophet.
Posted by oxegn
December 25th has something to do with religion? Jesus I almost forgot that, what with all the commercialism, and the buying and the taking and the turkey.
On another note, though it is related, jojo51069 are you saying that it isn't possible for a woman in Israel to have given birth on December 25th at all 2000 years ago? Because thats the impression I'm getting.
Posted by *Jojo*
@oxegn - As I have said before, those statements/facts that I said were gathered from the Discovery Channel that was viewed ages ago, I myself was also in doubt, as one of our members lamented that if the only problem was the weather then (frigid), how come that women in the north/south/ pole, antarctica and mostly the eskimos were able to give birth in their places ? Which I guess is a very valid 'Q' too. Thanks for all the responses mates !
Posted by Vlammetje
@pachy: I believe
Posted by *Jojo*
@pachy - yeeeeeeeees, everything is possibly being done now, so they'll look like a prophet - in dismay to some, they ended up looking just like 'puppets' !