Posted by frozenwaffles
Just wondering what you think of these new features that i think will become available for the P800 once the P900 becomes available:
1. User upgradeable phone firmware over the internet via SyncStation
2. P800 firmware enhancements that stem from P900 (as long as P800 hardware supports the feature; eg:
Comunicorder on P800 as camera hardware can record video
No new colour scheme as P800 only has 4096 colours
T9 text input
3. UIQ version 2.1 on P800 (as part of above)
4. Bluetooth enhancements, new profiles, etc (hopefully BIP and FTP)
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what sony ericsson do about this. i knwo there are currently lots of bugs in the P800 still so there will be new firmware coming out as time goes by (just like the T68i). i have discovered some bugs and suggested new features and i know that Sony Ericsson Australia said they will pass the ideas on and that there is a very good chance they will be added to the phone. lets just hope that my above list will happen and maybe some more!!!
Posted by drinker
Why does everyone think there will be a firmware update to bring most of the new functionality of the P900 to the P800?
I know SE did this for the t68i upgrade from the t68m, but that was only because they were providing the features that were promised for the original t68m, but didn't manage to deliver in time for release.
The name P900 (as opposed to P810) suggests a completely new model, not just an upgrade (although we know the two are functionally very similar).
I would be very surprised if SE do provide a 'P900' firmware update for the P800 - it just doesn't make financial sense. Sure, it will keep a lot of existing P800 users happy, but it also means many of them won't bother buying the P900.
As with all hi-tech products, consumers don't expect a free upgrade to the newest device. If they want the newest gear, they have to pay for it.
If SE do eventually provide a 'P900' firmware update for the P800, I would say it is only because they want to merge the P800 and P900 code streams into one and save on code maintenance costs - they would then only have to fix bugs once, not twice.
What do you guys think?
Posted by shorty
Drinker is absolutely correct.
I know it'd be very good of SE to give us P800 users a nice major upgrade (rather than just bugfixes) but also we aren't going to be lucky (I don't feel.. this is personal opinion).
The product is nearly a year old, it's being replaced by a model.. I just can't see SE wanting to be _that_ good to their customers. Sorry to dissapoint those hoping for a P800 & 3/4 firmware. It just isn't good business for SE.
[ This Message was edited by: shorty on 2003-10-12 18:38 ]
Posted by gatevital
Just think of the t300 and t310 the hardware is nearly identical it is(according to a thread on esato) possible to flash a t300 to become a t310 but se seam to have said that the t300 will not have the same upgrades as the t310.
Posted by drinker
Aside from the t68m -> t68i upgrade, has SE provided firmware updates to upgrade other models to a newer model?
Posted by Tao
no way wil se glve free upgrades
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
Then why i bother to buy a product from them again?this isnt just a phone its like a small pc and what is so new about this model? apart from the minor changes and the 65k?I dont see a new model here only a p800 with new software and some minor changes.And this is how it suppose to be anyway from the start a year old model with only 12bit colour when almost all the other models have 65k?Thats why i expect a upgrade to make the phone as its supposed to be from the start apart from the 65k witch is hardware and dont change.
Posted by exodus
R380 to r380e, was a major upgrade that was given for free.
Posted by drinker
Arfi, I don't think you are justified in expecting a free upgrade to the P900 firmware.
You compare the phone to a small PC, but even with a PC the upgrade isn't fee - if you want the next version of Windows then you have to pay for it and new versions of PC applications such as Microsoft Word are certainly not free. The P900 has a new operating system with new applications (albeit only minor upgrades). All this software development costs money and SE recoups this by charging for the new model.
Basically, you bought the P800 because it does what you want. If you want the functionality of the P900 then you will need to buy that too. I know it is a pain, but if you want the latest gadget then you have to pay for it.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
Drinker you are wrong when you buy a pc like phone you expect the phone to last and not die when the next phone appears.And tell me something if sony or any manufacture did this why i bother to buy a smart phone to last only a year ?Where is the support for the smart phone?And even if we pay for the upgrade as you said we pay but only when our free upgrades stop and i mean the 1 year free.I dont like sony or other company to mock me with this so called upgrade they ought to give to us too and just for marketing purposes they dont.Isnt enough the 800EU? And why paying for the features that the p800 ought to have from the start?The phone dont cost them more than 100$ at best they should give us the updates of the software of our phone,this isnt a new os like you said its only updated
and i dont think you paid for your updates from the microsoft do you?
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Zhto h Arfes-gorgones
[ This Message was edited by: Arfi-Gorgona on 2003-10-12 22:56 ]
Posted by gatevital
Are you sure the p900 upgrade will evan work on the p800? For business reasons why upgrade your p800 when you could be sold a p900.
Posted by drinker
Arfi-Gorgona, you bought the P800 because it is a cool phone that has plenty of features. When the P900 comes out, the P800 will not die - it will still have the same functionality it had the day you bought it. SE will still provide bug fixes and provide support such as warranty repairs. Third-party app writers will still write software compatiable with the P800. The P800 won't be forgotten overnight.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
support is not only bug fixes you know support is the missing features too,for their own good it better give this support because they lost a great deal of credability if you ask me support is features too its the same Os so we want the upgrade as free as they should give it.And i said befor microsoft dont want money for upgrades in the same OS its free for the net and it bug fixes and features too..
Posted by drinker
Not having owned a P800, I can't really comment too much on missing features. However, it certainly had way more features than any other phone in its class when released. When you bought the P800 you knew what features you were paying for and I would imagine that in general the P800 delivered. If you wanted other features that it did not provide then you had the choice not to buy the phone.
Anyway, I think the whole idea of comparing a smartphone with a PC is a little premature. SE and all the other manufacturers are still thinking in 'phone' mode where the customer upgrades every one or two years. Probably in a few years time we will get a phone that is designed to be upgradable like a PC and you will pay each year to get the firmware upgraded. Until then we will have to put up with buying a whole new phone every year if we want the latest technology.
Posted by jtrascap
Actually, while I'm very aware of the T68/68i story, I prefer not to consider anything other than the simple fact that the P800 is more "beta 900" than anything else. Unstable GPRS and Bluetooth, vcal 2.1, an uncustomizable UIQ...I feel odd, as if I've been a tester and I'm about to be left behind without any thanks. I had expected a stable and finished system when I bought in - obviously, it's been anything but.
I'm also expecting the commodity-mentality remarks -- it is what it is, buy a new one if you want new features, etc -- and that's fine, don't feel as if you need to bash. But I do recognize 2 very stong point that could sway things in out favor:
1) I didn't buy a commodity phone. I bought top-of-the-line, and I expect better treatment as a customer (or else next time I *will* buy commodity, and likely from someone else). Extreme phone, extreme service.
2) The marketplace is driven by customer demand..and at 700 Euro a pop, people read customer feedback before buying. There has been much to enjoy but also alot to bitch over. I bet that if we cry long enough and loud enough, we can certainly get our upgrade.
Sony woun't want anything casting a pall over the P900. They might also have a hard time moving older P800s. The -Press can easily pick up on these things (especially if we mail them
Sure it's blackmail, but do we as consumers have any other venue? I think most of us would even PAY for a decent upgrade, especially if it'll correct existing issues on Bluetooth or GRPS alone. I think Sony's already going to do the right thing, but if they don't, I do think action is needed.
Posted by RyaN
@ all aggrieved P800 users.
i am afraid i am inclined 2 agree with drinker too on this one. if u think, and considering how the mobile phone market is, did anyone believe the P800 was gonna b SEs only ever smartphone? no!! wot would be the advantages for SE to release a brand new top of the range smartphone and then release a free upgrade for P800 users? none because then new users would just buy a cheap P800 and upgrade. therefore their brand new release would flop. big companies think big business. and Sony and Ericsson r big companies! dont get me wrong id much rather have a P900 in my hands than my P800....who wouldnt?! but the simple fact is P8 can do pretty much everything the P9 can do. i think they may make an upgrade available at a later date, but for now the sole reason 4 releasing P9 is to create a fresh new look to bring in new time buyers.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
Yeah try to upgrade the 65k screen man!!The p900 has slighlty differences a new card reader i think, 65k screen and a little more memory.And something about the upgrades now.Why sony put an open architecture Os in the phone if they dont plan upgrades really,And why anyone buy a smartphone again if he knows that the support sucks?And the p800 is like a small pc as the palmtops or the other kind i dont remember now the name..Its upgratable with software so y not upgrade it?This is called support its not support to fix only the bugs in the phone even the samsung v200 now supporting the video capture why not p800?I dont give a sh-t about marketing if they want us to buy the expensive phones they make,we want real support.No one ask for a 65k screen in the p800 but the software support is paid by us already with 800EU,If we dont have it they dont have our money in our next purchuse.Thats all about that matter.
Posted by drinker
I know current P800 users will be annoyed, but the more I read here the more I believe they will not be getting a free P900 firmware update.
It seems that just because SE provided a free update from the t68m to the t68i (which I gladly took advantage of), everyone now expects free upgrades on all their phones. People, please bare in mind the t68m -> t68i offer was just a minor model update to provide all the features originally advertised for the t68 e.g. MMS. Upgrading a P800 to a P900 would be much more difficult (different hardware) and expensive (new license for the Symbian OS?)
Do you know of any other phone manufacturers who provide free upgrades to the latest model?
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
What new model man? its almost the same exept the 65k screen what new hardware you see?
Posted by nixin
it has a 400Mhz ARM9 processor and it has a Mirror on the back. and a B & O loud speaker.
Posted by drinker
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If you don't feel the new features of the P900 are of any interest then why are you so bothered about not getting a free upgrade?
I think it is very likely the hardware is different - how else would they manage to reduce the dimensions of the phone?
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
Dont forget the rocket launcher too....
Posted by RyaN
arfi, wot makes you want the p900 upgrade so bad? my only reason id want one is because the look of the thing. the actual capabilities of the phone are not gonna be a lot greater. and i dont know why you keep on going on about support. SE will still support, 3rd parties will still support. i mean look at the n7650, thats still getting support, and that was the very first symbian based smartphone.
as you said yourself, and its been discussed many times on this forum before, p9 has a different screen and a different version UIQ. how do you know theres is gonna be an upgrade possibilty at all? t68m>t68I are the virtually the same phone. p8>p9 mite be like saying t68i>t610 upgrade.
in all honesty, no-one really knows much about the p900, or IS gonna know much until SE offically release it. there really is no point in getting uptight about it now.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
If you don't feel the new features of the P900 are of any interest then why are you so bothered about not getting a free upgrade?
I think it is very likely the hardware is different - how else would they manage to reduce the dimensions of the phone?
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Well i care only for the camera upgrade and i dont think so they made a new phone here whats new? exept for the 65k?the new design make it new phone? they improve the phone yes in some manner but not new.my idea of new phone is a phone with many hardware features and not software upgretable the only new her its for sure the 65k screen.So what if the dimensions is a little less ? They make the phone design thinner they dont change the board inside exept for some minor changes i think they change the exterior of the phone man!!
Posted by drinker
What do you think of the following suggestion?
SE should allow all P800 users to bring in their phones and SE will fit a 16-bit colour screen free of charge so that they can enjoy a nicer more colourful screen like P900 users will have.
I'm sure most people would say this is a ridiculous idea because it would cost SE a fortune. However, it is no more ridiculous than expecting SE to provide a P900 firmware upgrade for the P800.
Many people just don't realise how hugely expensive it is for a company to develop software. To change just a few lines of code can cost hundreds of man-hours. SE will have strict quality assurance procedures. This means they can't just quickly hack a few lines; they need to follow formalised procedures that will include such things as risk assessment, code inspections, and numerous levels of testing. Of course, making any code change has the potential to introduce new bugs that time and money will need to be spent on to fix.
People may think writing software is easy and cheap to do because they have played around with Visual Basic on their PC at home and managed to knock up a simple program in five minutes.
For a real company writing real, complex software, it is a very expensive business.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
Isnt 800EU enough for this? This damn phone cost almost nothing for them.With an expensive phone we demant descent upgrades if they dont like it we dont buy its simple they cant make a damn phone and after awhile make an upgrade and dont give us too the same software upgrades with an almost identical phone the liscence is already in sonys hands to use,and the phone is identical in Os and usage i dont think is so dificult to make the upgrade to p800 too.This you dont understand,The p900 isnt a new phone its a minor upgrated p800 with an 65k screen thiisnt some think new to change the codes only the damn 65k screen is the problem.You dont even know what a p800 is man how can you say the p900 is something new without knowing the p800?
Posted by drinker
My point is that if you buy a phone you don't expect to get a free hardware upgrade to the next model. Similarly, you shouldn't expect a software upgrade to the next model. A software upgrade looks like it would cost SE almost nothing to provide, but in reality it could be as expensive as providing a hardware upgrade.
What is so wrong with the P800 that you have? Is it buggy? If so, then you need bug fixes, not an upgrade to the P900. I'm sure SE will carry on implementing bug fixes.
You say the P900 is virtually the same phone as the P800, so why do you want the P900 so much? What can you do with the P900 that you can't with the P800?
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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Mm sorry whats so difficult to understand?I dont want the p900 i want the p800 natural upgrade,we were going to have this upgrade if they dont release the p900 with is mostly a marketing thing and not a real new phone.So we want the upgrade why sony bother to build an upgratable phone if they dont upgrade it?We dont want something stupid here we want what every manifacture gives why samsoung give this upgrade to their phones?Why sony not?I dont know if they will but i ll be very dissapoint it by them if they dont.
Posted by drinker
SE have never promised that the P800 will be upgradable to future models. Surely you didn't expect you would be able to upgrade your phone every year so you wouldn't have to buy a new model?
If you believe the differences between the P800 and P900 firmware are so insignificant, why are you so bothered about not being able to get the update?
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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Man you dont seem to know nothing about marketing huh?If we dont have the upgrade its because they want to promote the p900 thats why!!And not because its a new phone i say this again to u its not. And you dont have the p800 to know as i do ,so stop it already about the future models its not a future model its a slight different p800 just for them to compete with the new 65k phone from other companies.If you think its a new phone just because they change the exterior and the screen then so be it.New phone for me means a different phone and not this!If you want to name it new phone its ok by me..The new p900 is only in the software and 65k screen if the p800 have the same software witch is very possible in the future when the p900 is out then its almost the same phone without 65k screen and minor upgrades maybe in the card reader.
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Zhto h Arfes-gorgones
[ This Message was edited by: Arfi-Gorgona on 2003-10-13 23:45 ]
Posted by fijbert
kinda useless arguing about whether the internals is the same or not when we dont hv a WHITE SHEET
T68m-T68i upgrade was made possible cuz it was the SAME phone
litterarly
Posted by haydnw
My point of view is that surely your phone software is similar to your pc - you'd expect bug fixes and stuff (eg Windows updates and service packs), but if someone brought out a different version in different packaging (eg Win98 SE after Win98), you'd still expect to have to pay to get the newest version. Especially if there's nothing inherently wrong with the first version!
Sure, SE made a smart move allowing T68 users to upgrade, but the phone internals were the same AFAIK, so there was no major incentive for users to buy a 68i. If they'd made the phone smaller and the screen better, people would never have expected a free software upgrade. I think most people were surprised when they got the one they did anyway! So IMHO it's not worth SE modifying all the P900 software to work on the P800 - as previously pointed out the development time alone would cost a fortune - unless of course they want you to pay for a new firmware version!
But that's another debate entirely...
Posted by BlackBauer24
I have the white sheet... it says, pure silk dry clean only on the back. will this help?
Posted by drinker
Arfi, I'm sorry but you still haven't managed to convince me that P800 owners have the right to demand a free firmware upgrade to the P900.
If you bought a a brand new Golf and then a year later Volkswagen slightly improve the interior, would you be complaining to Volkswagen? Would you be demanding that that they upgrade your car's interior? Of course not.
It is exactly the same situation with the P800; you have absolutely no right to demand a free upgrade to the P900. You keep going on about how the P900 is just a slightly modified version of the P800. So what if it is? That Golf I used in my analogy was only slightly modified, but you wouldn't expect a free upgrade would you?
Of course, it is all about marketing. SE wants to keep their phones at the forefront of the market, and they will make changes to their models to achieve this. As time goes by their models get better and better. This has the inevitable effect that eventually your model gets left behind. Well surprise, surprise, this is what happens in every industry!! No one expects a company to provide free upgrades from old products - what is the point in that? If that was the case then people would be driving around in twenty year old Golfs that have been upgraded every year for the last twenty years so that they are effectively new cars. Great for the consumer, but Volkswagen would have been made bankrupt years ago!!
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
Then they get my @@ in the next round.If they dont update i choose another brand more reliable than them.why samsung update you dont answer this
Is this convincing enough for you?Is Samsung and other companies like nokia respecr their customers and give this upgrades why sony not?If they dont respect us why bother to buy the phones they made.Now try to argue with this!!!Almost all the companies give the upgrades so the right way for sony is to give it too after some time i cant expect to give it in the release of the phone just for marketing.
[ This Message was edited by: Arfi-Gorgona on 2003-10-14 21:38 ]
Posted by drinker
I am not aware of Samsung providing a free firmware update to upgrade a phone to a newer model. Which model was it and which model did it get upgraded to? Are you sure it was not just a simple incremental upgrade like the t68m -> t68i ??
And I've certainly never heard of Nokia doing this.
In fact I can't think of any manufacturers who have offered free upgrades.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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Well then try the new nokia 3610 i think? and the old one the 7650? they offer the upgrade of video and other fuatures in the old one,And you say you dont know this?in what age you are in 1980
So if the other companies did it i expect it for sony too or else its ok i buy nokia the other time if they give better support..
Posted by drinker
Arfi, I don't know what you are talking about. The 3650 is effectively the successor to the 7650, and you cannot get a 3650 firmware upgrade for the 7650.
The 3610 is a Chinese version phone I think. Don't you mean the 3660? The 3660 is the successor to the 3650. I am fairly sure Nokia won't upgrade your 3650 to the 3660 for you.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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yes 3650 i forgot the numbers but they give the old one the same updates as the 3650.Why nokia offers the same upgrades and sony not?What do you keep saying about the firmware man i dont give a damn about the firmware i want the upgrades as nokia uses get for their phones!
Posted by drinker
Arfi, again I don't know what you are talking about. As I said before, you cannot get a 3650 firmware upgrade for the 7650. I am not aware of any Nokia phone that you can get a firmware update to upgrade it to a newer, different model.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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Oh man whatever..You just keep saying your firmware and firmware loll scr_w the firmware i talk about the upgrades i dont give a damn if its firmware or external all the cam phone support now video mms if sony dont want to do it in their p800 then nice for them
Waht do you say about that nixin?And i want the sister mermaid upgrade too many little mermaid jump up and donw in side the p800!! is this upgrade legitimate or its a firmware from a new phone too lol
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Zhto h Arfes-gorgones
[ This Message was edited by: Arfi-Gorgona on 2003-10-14 22:51 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Arfi-Gorgona on 2003-10-14 23:01 ]
Posted by drinker
Arfi, yes, more and more new phones will be offering video MMS and 16-bit colour screens.
The P800 is a a year old, which is positively geriatric in phone years. It is time for a fresh model, and that is the P900.
So if you want all these new features you are going to have to buy a new phone (it is not up to SE to give you all this for free).
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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i think all the above exept 1st and 4rth and the 65 k
Posted by nixin
How important does a person have to be before they are considered assassinated instead of just murdered?
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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Drinker if they dont offer sisters mermaids in 16 bit colour too i think ill pass thnks.Buy them yourself this nice phones
Posted by exodus
V60 cdma was upgradeable to v60i. Cant think of any others for free. 9210 first symbian phone, was not upgradeable to i version. Plenty of unofficial mods 3310 to 3315, 8210 to 8250, 6210 to 6250, t66 to t600, t10 to t18, t20 to t29.
Posted by Arfi-Gorgona
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Well maybe its time