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SONY XPERIA Rumors 2014


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Posted by DexterMoser
The Z3X specs list looks like a classic Nodarsixar "leak". No offense buddy
But I'm also very sceptical!
But any real new sensor, larger area and more Pixels, will be welcome.



On 2014-07-19 20:34:37, vivftp wrote:

... I'll once again offer sexual favours to Kaz if Sony creates a proper, high end Playstation Phone





Posted by cu015170

On 2014-07-20 10:46:51, Xajel wrote:
@ascariss

AFAIK, the curved sensor should fix the optics issue..

not that I believe these spec. or rumours or these pics ( which are clearly faked for me ).. the point that the current idea that a large sensor is hard to put in a thin profile is about to change a little bit with the curved sensor as it will allow much less lenses in the optics assembly... not like we will have 1" sensor in Z2 like device, but it will allow a little larger sensor than what is currently possible in the same profile.



That would be great and it will also help with IQ overall.. more complex the lens = more probable distortions, etc.

Overall if they can make this work, and if the tech performs as intended, they could potentially overtake Microsoft as the leader in smartphone imaging.. we will have to wait and see.




Posted by HxH
before QX10/100 became official last year, most of us think it fake or nearly impossible as well.

although, those both extended camera hardware was clearly not pick-up in consumer market.

Posted by Away

On 2014-07-20 06:32:07, Wintermute wrote:

On 2014-07-19 20:25:06, Away wrote:
Due to Sony aiming for quicker releases after announcement, we should see the Z4 at MWC and available a few days after. It should have the s810 Yay? Besides it being 20nm, nothing too exciting. ends-shield-family-shield-tablet-wireless-controller


I don't know--S810 is not only 20nm, but also contains the entire RF 360 platform from Qualcomm (for significant power savings), it has support for hardware encode of 4K video, and it has Adreno 430, which will be a full 80% more powerful than Adreno 330, in addition to having a CPU that's up to 50% faster. I think it's the most exciting SoC in a while


In my opinion, the Tegra k1 seems far more interesting. If for the quad a15 the power usage is what Nvidia claims it is on one of the slides. Though I strongly doubt it is...

Regardless, Denver is super, super interesting and Parker is even more so, though by the time Parker is found in devices, the new Qualcomm architecture will be found on devices too I guess.
[ This Message was edited by: Away on 2014-07-20 15:34 ]


Posted by DexterMoser
Another digi-wo thread:
Sony a 2/3 inch video to the surface sensor oversampling, oversampling (2-in-1 Logic physical pixel pixel, without guessing color) + high dynamic range (10.8 files in ISO640) + high SNR (41.1dB in ISO400 ) + ultra-thin high-quality lens (20mm F1.2 G lens 6mm thickness)
and exposure Z3X sensor model fit, IMX271SMK.
Dafa again leading photographic technology.

About Z3X phone related news! !

Posted by kurtdean
^
Could u show us the pic that he shared?

Posted by maloqs
http://www.cnbeta.com/articles/311487.htm
Link and pictures are here
They said the performance is better than canon 5d3(camera expert please clarify please)
[ This Message was edited by: maloqs on 2014-07-20 15:43 ]


Posted by DexterMoser
^Thx.

Posted by kurtdean
^
thx

Posted by itsjustJOH

On 2014-07-20 15:38:54, DexterMoser wrote:
Another digi-wo thread:
Sony a 2/3 inch video to the surface sensor oversampling, oversampling (2-in-1 Logic physical pixel pixel, without guessing color) + high dynamic range (10.8 files in ISO640) + high SNR (41.1dB in ISO400 ) + ultra-thin high-quality lens (20mm F1.2 G lens 6mm thickness)
and exposure Z3X sensor model fit, IMX271SMK.
Dafa again leading photographic technology.

About Z3X phone related news! !



Hmmm, yes... mmmm yes I know some of these words...

Posted by -XYZ
Info is more about the sensor than it is about the phone.
Either way, Sony need to sort out their capture latency, which is way behind competition.

Posted by XperiaJunkie
Not being clued up in camera tech would anybody care to elaborate on how this differs to the current sensor in the Z2 please.

Posted by -XYZ

On 2014-07-20 16:48:41, XperiaJunkie wrote:
Not being clued up in camera tech would anybody care to elaborate on how this differs to the current sensor in the Z2 please.



Curved, fewer lens elements and clusters, as well as a wider overall aperture. Higher corner sensitivity and sharpness.

All of these being theoretical advantages. Yet to be proven.

Posted by XperiaJunkie
^ Thanks for that

Posted by Wintermute

On 2014-07-20 15:00:33, Away wrote:
In my opinion, the Tegra k1 seems far more interesting. If for the quad a15 the power usage is what Nvidia claims it is on one of the slides. Though I strongly doubt it is...

Regardless, Denver is super, super interesting and Parker is even more so, though by the time Parker is found in devices, the new Qualcomm architecture will be found on devices too I guess.
[ This Message was edited by: Away on 2014-07-20 15:34 ]



Well, I agree about Denver K1, but I had kind of figured that it was DOA. NVidia seems to have thrown up its hands trying to get its SoCs into smartphones, so I just assumed it would continue to be all Qualcomm from here on out.

Posted by cu015170


So 2 groups of 4 elements

The 1020 has 1 group of 6 elements

The 808 has 1 group of 5 elements

Not sure what the difference between 1 and 2 groups is in practice, but the Sony lens has less elements which is one of the advantages of the new sensor tech.

Can't wait to see what it can do..

Also, its much wider!! 20mm is panorama like
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2014-07-20 19:01 ]


Posted by Xajel
Yeah, I also noted the telephoto thing ( IPE : optical zoom )

while it should be that the sensor+lens assembly is capable of supporting optical zoom but it's optional.. but does this could mean that Sony might be able to add optical zoom in future devices without the need of thick device ? I mean how much the new sensor can make the lens assembly thinner.. and how thick is the optical zoom option ?

BTW, just to mention here, I already mentioned before but some may forget... Sony tends to have larger padding in top and bottom for several reasons, it's easier to hold with one hand and also can have the thick components in the margin to allow thinner device... if the camera was behind the screen, it will be thicker... thought duo to multiple factors, Sony might not always do this and the camera might be above the screen anyway...

Posted by rss_ndrsn
Still no raw mode support?

Posted by -XYZ

On 2014-07-20 20:38:22, Xajel wrote:
Yeah, I also noted the telephoto thing ( IPE : optical zoom )

while it should be that the sensor+lens assembly is capable of supporting optical zoom but it's optional.. but does this could mean that Sony might be able to add optical zoom in future devices without the need of thick device ? I mean how much the new sensor can make the lens assembly thinner.. and how thick is the optical zoom option ?


A zoom requires the lens elements to move if I'm not wrong. That increases the number of elements needed and a motor to move them. All this would need to be crammed into a thin profile. Makes me think that its not happening.

They might have an RX1000 which is a step down from the RX100, which has a zoom lens attached to this 2/3 sensor.
(don't go quoting this please, this is pure speculation)


BTW, just to mention here, I already mentioned before but some may forget... Sony tends to have larger padding in top and bottom for several reasons, it's easier to hold with one hand and also can have the thick components in the margin to allow thinner device... if the camera was behind the screen, it will be thicker... thought duo to multiple factors, Sony might not always do this and the camera might be above the screen anyway...


Yeah, this is why they have large top/bottom bezels (in addition to the dual front firing speaking).
Also allows a much larger battery.

EDIT:
Can someone calculate the pixel size for a 20MP on a 2/3" sensor?
[ This Message was edited by: -XYZ on 2014-07-20 20:22 ]


Posted by ascariss
Wait so what is this camera actually? because I am confused, it shows aperture blades, 6 of them, meaning you can modify the aperture as also posted, F1.2-9.8.

is this camera integrated or an attachment? Because I would be shocked if they added aperture blades to such a small camera.



Posted by cu015170

On 2014-07-20 21:18:37, -XYZ wrote:
Can someone calculate the pixel size for a 20MP on a 2/3" sensor?


pic size : 5248 х 3936 (Z2)

Sensor size 8.8 х 6.6 mm i.e. 2/3"

1 mm = 1000 microns

8.8 х 1000 = 8800 microns across

8800 / 5248 = 1.6768 or 1.7 microns per pixel

^ that's very good.. should have great dynamic range and lower noise levels overall.

For reference, the 1020 is at 1.1 microns @ 41 million pixels using the same size sensor.

the 808 is at 1.4 microns @ 41mpix on a bigger 10.67 x 8.00 sensor

Both Nokia phones suffer from weak DR and highlight clipping.

here



I really want that 1" sensor in a phone


Anyway, with all the improvements in sensor technology, theoretically the 2/3" sensor should be able to match the 808 for the most part, which would be amazing since it won't need a "hump" on the back for such a large assembly.
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2014-07-21 00:12 ]


Posted by Away

On 2014-07-20 18:23:35, Wintermute wrote:

On 2014-07-20 15:00:33, Away wrote:
In my opinion, the Tegra k1 seems far more interesting. If for the quad a15 the power usage is what Nvidia claims it is on one of the slides. Though I strongly doubt it is...

Regardless, Denver is super, super interesting and Parker is even more so, though by the time Parker is found in devices, the new Qualcomm architecture will be found on devices too I guess.



Well, I agree about Denver K1, but I had kind of figured that it was DOA. NVidia seems to have thrown up its hands trying to get its SoCs into smartphones, so I just assumed it would continue to be all Qualcomm from here on out.


DOA for smartphones? No integrated modem and no aim for smartphones so I guess you're right. But with the efficiency of Maxwell, maybe there's hope then? EDIT: Now to think about it, Google are releasing a 64 bit OS, surely there'll be a new nexus device this year? Maybe Google will release it when the Denver k1 is ready? Probably a tablet? The quad a15 is found in the tango tablet, so surely there's hope?

Where Nvidia SoCs are exciting is tablets. Like it or not, 4k tablets will be here very soon. That's a lot of pixels to push.

Furthermore, I really, really like where Nvidia is going with the upcoming shield tablet. It brings a new dimension to mobile devices and transfer our usage of our PCs to our mobile devices, a step in the right direction I think.

However, besides PC games on mobile devices, the software isn't there to make much good use of that power. I'm desperately waiting for developers to develop applications with that power in mind for things besides games. Quad 1280x800 panels of four different applications running smoothly? In a year or two, on 4k tablets, quad 1080p running smoothly?

The exciting part is when android begins to run chrome applications. Apple vs Google vs Microsoft vs Ubuntu. The race is on to unify all screens. The Ubuntu Edge was truly before it's time, and I think they should try again in 2015 to get some devices into production. Better yet, Sony buy them and run them separately.

I'm looking to buy a tablet next year, would really love Sony to step up their productivity game though.

And you know how the tablet Z2 is crazily thin and light? Why not make a Max or Pro version with a bigger battery and more built-in storage along with laptop-like accessories? Again, productivity applications are required, I don't know what's taking Sony so long.

Lastly, a Vita phone and tablet? Sony should work with AMD (Nvidia have conflicting interests I guess) and go for it. But more on that later.
[ This Message was edited by: Away on 2014-07-21 01:02 ]


Posted by DexterMoser

On 2014-07-21 01:03:06, cu015170 wrote:

I really want that 1" sensor in a phone

This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2014-07-21 00:12 ]


Me too!!

Btw for 22MP the exact pixel size would be 1.62 Microns.

Posted by cu015170
^ yeah, it would vary slightly depending on the exact resolution.. I just took the one they used for the Z2 because I am assuming they will stick to that format.

The 1" sensor cameraphone ... we can only dream To be honest I don't even care if it has an even bigger hump, but the market tells a different story so I doubt that we will see it happen.

I expect them to go into crazy resolutions instead.. we will probably see something in the 80Mpix range before we see a substantial increase in sensor size. The pixel density thing is not over.. something tells me that they will go bellow 1.1 microns very soon.

The curved sensor tech from Sony is very interesting to me, especially if they let Apple have a go at it

Posted by >500
This lens talk is hurting my head

Come on, where's all the juicy stuff!

Posted by milukugiuniu
AFAIK Z3X is planned to use this CMOS. But it is not determined. So guys be patient.

Z3X is just a tentative name. The final name will be surely different.

I also heard the CMOS can be perfectly used on a phone of the similar thickness to Z2 without humping.
[ This Message was edited by: milukugiuniu on 2014-07-21 05:16 ]



Posted by vivftp

On 2014-07-21 06:04:26, milukugiuniu wrote:
AFAIK Z3X is planned to use this CMOS. But it is not determined. So guys be patient.

Z3X is just tentative name. The final name will be surely different.


So... is Z3x the best option for those wanting a Z Ultra successor?

Really hoping it is a well rounded device

Posted by Wintermute

On 2014-07-21 01:58:31, Away wrote:

DOA for smartphones? No integrated modem and no aim for smartphones so I guess you're right. But with the efficiency of Maxwell, maybe there's hope then? EDIT: Now to think about it, Google are releasing a 64 bit OS, surely there'll be a new nexus device this year? Maybe Google will release it when the Denver k1 is ready? Probably a tablet? The quad a15 is found in the tango tablet, so surely there's hope?


I'm hoping the rumors about this 8.9" HTC Nexus tablet are for real. Denver K1, 1600p display, 3+ GB of RAM, HTC build quality, and Nexus? Yes please.

Posted by MartenR
@ milukugiuniu How reliable is your source? I can't understand Chinese but I used google translate on digi-woo and you seemed to say that the design is a lot worse. What did you mean?
@vivftp Did zomg answer?
@hyui and ramu what doyou think about this?

Could Z3X's design the bull eye design maia talked about last year?

P.S. According to Digitimes Xperia E2 will be shipped in 3Q 14 and will have 4.5" screen. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20140718PB203.html
[ This Message was edited by: MartenR on 2014-07-21 10:45 ]


Posted by kurtdean
^
Yea I thought the same. Is it the same design that maia told us before? Because it kinda looks like it and ramu told us that it will has 2/3 sensor
[ This Message was edited by: kurtdean on 2014-07-21 10:54 ]


Posted by amirprog
Let's assume this device is real. with such code name either they are hinting that it should be announced at first half before z4 or misleading people for some reason and the code name only indicate that it is a high end device.

Posted by HxH
Sapphire Shield by Kyocera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCs7UE7dtxA


Sony we need to explore this quickly....

Posted by DexterMoser
http://www.sonyalpharumors.co[....]or-camera-with-20mm-f1-2-lens/
Nothing new there, but SAR says the sensor will launch soon at Photokina. SR4!



On 2014-07-21 03:56:03, cu015170 wrote:
The 1" sensor cameraphone ... we can only dream To be honest I don't even care if it has an even bigger hump, but the market tells a different story so I doubt that we will see it happen.

I expect them to go into crazy resolutions instead..

Yeah, a 1" sensor will require even more space, and most customers seem to like only thin devices...

But I have some hope. If a 2/3" sensor (MX271SMK) really turns out in a thin device without a hump it would be amazing. If someone told me this last year I would have called him crazy!
So we never know what technical advances might come next year!

And even though I'd like to see bigger sensors, I'd be thrilled by a 80MP smartphone. Think of the possibilities. Who the hell needs optical zoom if you have 80MP?!
But I guess only Nokia could pull that off!
[ This Message was edited by: DexterMoser on 2014-07-21 18:21 ]


Posted by itsjustJOH
"7.83mm lens f/1.2 G lens is only 6mm thick"

If the lens would be that thick, plus the sensor, I doubt a 7.9mm thickness like what maia and milku said would be possible. That is, if it would be flat rear/no ass.

Posted by DexterMoser
^Why not?
Like with Z1 and Z2 the camera module won't be behind the screen, it will be above. So theoretical only the back and front piece of glass will add thickness.
What's the thickness of a piece of gorilla glass?

Edit:
Ah I misread your comment, but I think SAR ment the thickness of the whole camera module? I guess...
[ This Message was edited by: DexterMoser on 2014-07-21 18:37 ]


Posted by itsjustJOH
^Xperiablog did say the same thing, or they copied it from SAR. Dunno.

Posted by DexterMoser
^Hm, if the lens itself is 6mm I have serious doubts if this will fit in a smartphone at all. Maybe "just" a new QX camera?

Posted by huiyi
IMX271SMK This sensor will be used in the Z3X's! ! Z3X is temporary internal name for! Z3X now there are a lot of variables! IMX271SMK mass production soon! Z3 sensors and iphone 6 is not a model! iphone6 ​​sensor size 1/2.3 indeed!

Posted by vivftp

On 2014-07-21 23:47:03, huiyi wrote:
IMX271SMK This sensor will be used in the Z3X's! ! Z3X is temporary internal name for! Z3X now there are a lot of variables! IMX271SMK mass production soon! Z3 sensors and iphone 6 is not a model! iphone6 ​​sensor size 1/2.3 indeed!


Oooh, interesting. Are you able to confirm that the stated screen size of the Z3X is accurate? A 6.14" display sounds absolutely perfect for my next phone after my Z Ultra



Posted by Ricky D
Personally I think the current level of smartphone cameras is acceptable and unless it means mid-range DSLR quality or large optical zoom I don't want Sony to sacrifice a slim design or make a artificial looking bump.

Please do not wish for a bump, you may as well go buy a Samsung, who's bumps are hideous things and a disgrace to design. I'd be questioning my worth to society if that was the best I could come up with for an industry leading device. (Sony, sign me up )

If they make a hump backed phone they have to at least make it look like it's part of the design for example Xperia S, X10, going back C905 and to an extent even Satio and K800.

Better still make a new design that doesn't even look like it's been designed around a camera depth eg. Arc/TX style

Posted by Away
Sony BETTER not make a bump. However, I'm all for an ever so slightly thicker design if it means a significant battery capacity increase.

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that Sony are the leaders of camera hardware in modern smartphones? You'd think they'd focus on the image processing on the site too...

Posted by kurtdean
I think it's confirm that xperia z3x will have that new curved sensor because huiyi said so

Posted by Xajel

On 2014-07-22 04:02:35, Away wrote:
Sony BETTER not make a bump. However, I'm all for an ever so slightly thicker design if it means a significant battery capacity increase.

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that Sony are the leaders of camera hardware in modern smartphones? You'd think they'd focus on the image processing on the site too...


Totally Agree, and I said that before also.. prefer slightly thicker to make the battery larger... even though the battery life in Z2 + Z2 Tablet is great.. but no body will say no to more battery life in smartphone, but I wonder how much more capacity will be gained if we increase the thickness by 1mm, and I believe a dragontrail/sapphire back sheet will make it even thinner...

We will know soon which one is better strength and cost

Posted by ascariss
So what is this Z3X device? People have said there will be no ZU replacement, so what is this exactly.

The next issue, is the camera resolution, it doesn't appear to have any standard 4:3 ratio, unless the picture out is the video, and not images.

http://www.cnbeta.com/articles/311487.htm

Whatever this thing above in that article is, is definable not a module that will fit into a smart phone. Regardless of what people will say, there is no way in hell a small enough motor can be made for the aperture blades that will all fit into a nice thin body like a Z2, sorry no way in hell, I do not believe it. Sony is king of miniaturization, but even this I feel is beyond their abilities, at least for the time being. That being said, this device in the above link is probably for either a point and shoot camera or for the lens cameras, QX10, possibly new model. Although it remains to be seen if Sony does upgrade the QX10/100 at IFA and release new models, or will show this sensor with lens camera as concept and release it a bit later, ie christmas.

As for the sensor itself, MX271SMK, I am sure it exists and sticking it into a smartphone will be feasible and it would make sense for some high end device to sport it but for it to ship with a f1.2 lens on a smartphone? I don't know, hard for me too believe Sony would go for such a lens, f1.8 would be a better option. Although a f1.2 lens would provide insane bokeh.

Whatever the truth or facts or rumours, the next few months should be interesting regarding imaging and sony.

Posted by Wishmaster89
With this size and f1.2 aperture it would give similar DoF as f2.5 lens on m4/3 camera and that would be truly remarkable for mobile camera.

Posted by Away
http://m.techradar.com/review[....]a-shield-tablet-1258255/review

We need a premium 8 inch Sony tablet asap lol, and it will have seriously tough competition.

Posted by goldenface
I suppose I could put up with a mild hump-backed device if the optical gains were worth it - for instance a good Xenon flash.

Maybe the answer is a 'curved wedge' design, with all optics at the top of the phone and it being around 9mm thick, then tapering down towards the bottom of the phone to around 5mm, and being 5mm thick at the sides too.

Posted by Away
I suggested a wedge design a year ago. Sony and their fascination with omnibalance...

Posted by XperiaJunkie
As much as I like Sony's Omni balance design I do feel it is becoming a bit stale. If this curved sensor is to make it into a future Xperia device I would'nt mind somthing similar to the old Sony Ericsson Xperia Neo with its curved back and its camera almost smack bang in the middle at its thickest point (13mm infact) . This would then remove the need for a hump and still keep a classy, balanced design. Click the link for a view of the rear of the Neo Just incase you forgot lol.

http://www.gsmarena.com/showp[....]/gsmarena_002.jpg&idPhone=3734
[ This Message was edited by: XperiaJunkie on 2014-07-22 17:05 ]


Posted by Ricky D
I still love this design personally, but tidy it up and update it slightly to match current trends eg. a taller screen aspect ratio, waterproofing, glass back cover, micro-usb...

Alas, after 2 years from concept release, even the body shape may never come to be.

Edit: the idiot o this side of my monitor forgot the link www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG3tLxEQEdg
[ This Message was edited by: Ricky D on 2014-07-22 18:32 ]



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