Posted by qkp1994
NXT + Omnibalance + Arc = Awesome
But I wonder how Sony can fuse all three elements into a phone.
Just hope that the Z2's and the future Z3's camera will be better at low light shots.
[ This Message was edited by: qkp1994 on 2014-03-02 03:18 ]
Posted by Felimenta97
@qkp1994
Maybe the NXT from S (the bar not at the very bottom, like SP). Same size as SP one, has multiple colors, CAN be set to be used as notification LED. It should be just one or two mm away from the screen. But the glass keeps going on the bottom, with the bottom speaker sitting right there (Z2 speaker design). The rest of the front should be like Z2, with the LED, top speaker. Front camera and sensors on the sides of the Sony logo.
The top LED is normally as bright as it is, but it can be brighter when music is playing and images are being shown (just like the other devices like ZL, but brighter on those situations). The back has a curve like the original Arc (not like T, L and such). Made of extra strong glass (to be resistant as it will be bent). Power button like the Omni Balance one, Alluminium. and it sits exactly in the middle of the device side. Headphone jack on top, no flaps. Also, an IR Blaster on top too... Bottom should have a Micro Micro USB, also without flaps. The microphone design could be like the S or Z2.
On the left side, you have the Micro SD and SIM (whichever size they choose) ports into one small flap. Also, a Magnetic port, centralized. Right side, with the Power button, volume buttons and camera button (they can borrow these from the Z2). 6.4 mm at the thinnest point (middle) and 8.1 mm at the thickest (top and bottom).
... Lol, sorry guys, I just got too dreamy here
Posted by vikeviki
^
Should I skip Z2 and wait for dream phone
Posted by HxH
Thanks for clarify, Smaug
But I guess you haven't seen those review about Toyota 86 and Mercedez A-Class.
Posted by amirprog
@ardian
Nice sharing with us ardian. i'm surprised about s810 and it's nice to hear better camera (i guess for hardware AND software) - hopefully to really smash the criticism like they are doing with the IPS display now and arc design - i really liked arc and arc s.
@vikeviki
if you usually replace your phone every 3 years and you want a premium phone and don't have any then why wait? go for Z2. if your pocket is really deep then buy Z2 now and replace it when Z3 comes if you wish.
easy.
so now that we have some info who is up for creating a concept?
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-02 10:27 ]
Posted by reeflotz
@vikeviki
If you're going with Z2, I think it'll be better to wait maybe a month or two before you do get it, so that you'll definitely be sure this time if there are any flaws or none. Although everything about Z2 is good so far, it's best to make sure that you do get what you expect
. I personally never pre-order or buy any gadget on launch, I always wait for detailed feedback from early adopters before I decide.
Or you could wait for Z3, anyway I think it's pretty much clear that Sony might be making updated flagships every 6 months if we were to go by with this news.
Posted by ardian
all sony flagships phone will be water proof...
and as for internal memory i have it 32 gb
Posted by Smaug
@vikeviki
It depends entirely on your situation. If you need a new phone right now because your old one is dying, you may not have much choice and the Z2 appears an excellent all-rounder. Reeflotz is right in that it is wiser to wait until after launch and seek feedback from early adopters. The first manufacturing batch always carries higher risk.
If your current phone can suffice or you have a replacement to tie you over, then you could wait and see what Sony conjures up as we march into the future. Again, there is risk in believing rumours from anonymous internet posters. Remember the half glass and carbonfire Xperia that was rumoured last year? People even produced some attractive renders to go with it. When it failed to eventuate, a few Esato members got their knickers in a twist. It may have been a genuine model in development but failed QA or one of the product development stage-gates, but we "bought the rumour and sold the fact".
The only "wrong" choice would be to continually hold out for the latest and greatest upgrade, because you will always know a better phone is 6 months away. Once specs on the Z3 firm up, then rumours about the Z4 will start to surface (64-bit processing, 4GB ram etc). You'll then think "I want the latest" and will wait for the Z4, at which point the Z5 will come into picture (4K flexible screens etc). Buying a new car suffers much the same dilemma. Upgrades come yearly; people always want the latest but if you wait for the next refresh, you will always be waiting.
Some people can afford to upgrade regularly - good for them. Others must invest their discretionary income carefully. The phone that looks the best to you right now is the one to buy.
Posted by alexander87
On 2014-03-02 11:38:44, ardian wrote:
all sony flagships phone will be water proof...
and as for internal memory i have it 32 gb
hey man, something on the next Z Ultra please? will they go smaller size? hope not...
Posted by Detox
Cheers ardian! I think that sounds very promising. The Sony Mobile momentum just keeps growing stronger and stronger it seems.
Something else, how will Sony name the yearly updated devices? The next Ultra will very likely skip Z1 and will be called Z2 Ultra (like the tablet), which is easily comprehensible. But next year will be interesting. I.e. going by last/this year, the next Compact will be based on the Z3. Are they going to name it Z3 Compact to show that it is related to the Z3 or Z2 Compact because, well, it's the sequel to the Z1 Compact? This seems kinda awkward.
Posted by ardian
as for the names, i really dont know, i prefer to be called like xperias from 2011 but there are other people in charge for that so i dont know what they have in mind.... but all the new xperias will be awesome devices....
Posted by vikeviki
Thanks Smaug & Reefltoz,appreciate your inputs which helps for me,will nail this time carefully
@Ardian making me so confusing to go for z2,he tempt me alot on future devices:)
Bro ,before Z2 excite you are killing it
[ This Message was edited by: vikeviki on 2014-03-02 11:29 ]
Posted by ardian
On 2014-03-02 12:27:19, vikeviki wrote:
Thanks Smaug & Reefltoz,appreciate your inputs which helps for me,will nail this time carefully
@Ardian making me so confusing to go for z2,he tempt me alot on future devices:)
Bro ,before Z2 excite you are killing it
[ This Message was edited by: vikeviki on 2014-03-02 11:29 ]
well you can buy the z2 if you want it...... z2 is a beast but if you want something heavier then wait what should i say more to you
Posted by DyaRenz
The back will remain glass
Or they will go for metal???
Metal is likely I suppose xD
Posted by amirprog
@detox
IMO, it's natural that the compact follows H2 flagship characteristics including the name because it's the mini version of it and naming it z2 conpact will not fit it and will sound old. the only awkward things about sony's strategy that is the root of this awkwardness is the half a year flagship, the numbers that change every half a year, and the naming from z to z1. this is awkward, hehe.
about arc design, is it even possible to make a curved glass for a smartphone without it breaking? and what about metal like aluminum? all the curved shaped phones chassis including arc are made of plastic. i'm not a fan of plastic.
@ardian
would be awesome if sony dictates 32gb as standard.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-02 13:38 ]
Posted by Detox
You said it better than I could
.
Posted by vikeviki
@Ardian,
will Sony Inherits all this in Z3
1)Noise Cancellation
2.)Stereo speakers
3>)Bezel free
Then I will wait,will buy some ordinary phone and push 6 months.
Posted by tk007
@Ardian,
will Sony Inherits all this in Z3
1)Noise Cancellation
2.)Stereo speakers
3>)Bezel free
Mine Question Too
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-03-02 14:22:53, amirprog wrote:
about arc design, is it even possible to make a curved glass for a smartphone without it breaking? and what about metal like aluminum? all the curved shaped phones chassis including arc are made of plastic. i'm not a fan of plastic.
I believe so, yes. There was an interview with Corning claiming they had developed Gorilla-glass equivalent that was curved. I don't have it on hand, but if memory serves me well the challenge was a matter of adjusting to large-batch manufacturing as you don't print glass panels out individually, but in massive sheets. The curved technology was ready though.
Not sure about Asahi Glass. Sony reportedly use a mixture of suppliers for their glass - both Asashi and Corning. It may be this rumoured Z3/Arc prototype only incorporates Corning glass (at least on the back).
As for metal, yes you can certainly manufacture it curved relatively simply (depending on the metal - gold for example is extremely malleable). However, this can place stress and affect load-bearing at different points of the curvature. A gentle Xperia Arc-like curve should be fine though.
Posted by amirprog
@vikeviki
Let's be logical. sony will not exclude DNC and stereo speakers from Z3. it wouldn't make any sense. they would shoot their legs. seriously, i can't understand these kind of questions. (i'm not attacking you or something, just noting it. we can think and ask whatever we want). and why would you want bezel free phone if it's bad for ergonomics? if you meant "thinner bezel" then it does make sense and forget what i said. bezel free display can be good if they find a way to detect when we want to press a function and when we want to just hold the phone, in that case:
1. the phone would have to be able to read our minds.
or
2. they would have to make a small part of the display's top, bottom and sides not responsive to presses so we don't press something unintentionally.
the second option seems more logical and practical but i doubt it will happen in 2014. they won't take such a risk. plus it's a waterproof phone which makes the design even more complicated and bezel free design would have to look seamless - the display panel itself has a tiny bezel. so, truly bezel free phone cannot really exist in 2014.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-02 14:17 ]
Posted by Gitaroo
they can also use metal for the back right? Just hope its not plastic and exclusive to low end phones. I think the if it curve out on the back they can put the camera behind the screen so they can shrink down the top and bottom bezel.
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-03-02 15:02:00, Gitaroo wrote:
they can also use metal for the back right? Just hope its not plastic and exclusive to low end phones. I think the if it curve out on the back they can put the camera behind the screen so they can shrink down the top and bottom bezel.
Indeed.
On your first point, yes you can use metal on the back (perhaps treated aluminium). However, there is that question over cost. The iPhone 5s and 5c's different casing gives a very rough indication of cost differences between plastic and (flat) glass, and that is with Apple's purchasing power (presumably greater than Sony).
On your second point, I was thinking the same thing. Omni-balance design has been well received, but it can have drawbacks. In examining the Z1, the camera module appears too large (i.e. fat) to sit behind the screen so it must go on top. In keeping the Omni-balance symmetry, this then dictates the bottom bezel must share similar proportions. Notice Sony publicised slimming down the side bezels for the T2 Ultra, but made no mention of top/bottom.
An Arc-like design would solve this trade-off. You can still get Omni-balance symmetry, but with the wider top/bottom you could theoretically fit a large sensor behind the screen while thinning out the bezels. There's even talk about curved battery cells, but this may not be ready in time and/or push the cost out too much.
Posted by amirprog
@Smaug
Nice to know. either curved metal or glass would be truly wow
but i think that glass is a better option (and in not a distant future, sapphire) because it cannot mess with reception. 
Posted by Ricky D
They could use metal for the back but the design would have to be smart in the way it incorporates the mobile antenna.
HTC get around this by having a weird looking line of some description breaking up the design, Apple infamously put the antenna in the frame which didn't work out so great, Asus had to quickly redesign one of their transformer tablets because they forgot to think about the antenna, iPad has a plastic strip at the back to accommodate the antenna components.
To my mind none of the above are ideal solutions. The Xperia P (or was it U?) had an alu back and placed the antenna in the transparent strip, if you looked closely you could see the criss-cross conductor patterns through the strip. I don't think a metal back is the best material for a smartphone. It looks and feels nice but the nature of the material offers restrictions to the core functions of the device.
I would like to see some of the wooden backed Arc prototypes come to market though. If it's properly finished wood it should be waterproofed enough.
Posted by amirprog
@Ricky D
+1 for wood. moto x looks pretty cool with the wooden back.
but you forgot about sapphire - no reception problems and it resist the most (?) to scratches and falls after diamond and looks more futuristic then wood. or maybe wood and sapphire! for the sophisticated mind.
NOT metal or plastic back sony!
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-02 15:04 ]
Posted by my ninja
@Ardian... the photos on page 131
real/fake should we expect that kind of bezel in the next device?
if so... i can wait, else.
Posted by vivftp
Very anxious to learn more about the next Ultra. Hoping they'll delay its release so that it's launched along with the next flagship, and both will have identical feature sets. I'm kinda doubtful that'll happen though, and the Ultra will be launched in the summer and will be part way between the Z2 and next flagship in specs/features. Gonna make it a bit harder to decide what to upgrade to from my current Ultra.
OTOH, my carrier didn't even get the Ultra in the first place, so if they don't pick up the next Ultra, then I suppose that'll make my decision easier
Posted by hihihans
It would make perfect sense if they released a 4" 5" and 6" with identical specs at the same time. That would save them lots of development money.
Posted by vivftp
Indeed it would be nice for them to launch all 3 together. On the other hand, by releasing a Compact at the start of the year, a flagship soon after, an Ultra in the Summer and another flagship in the Fall, they are keeping their devices in the news pretty much year round.
Ah well, wait and see I suppose.
Posted by itsjustJOH
I expect the Z3 family on IFA. The Z3, Z3 Compact, Z3 Ultra and the Z3 Tablet.
Posted by vivftp
On 2014-03-02 17:37:48, itsjustJOH wrote:
I expect the Z3 family on IFA. The Z3, Z3 Compact, Z3 Ultra and the Z3 Tablet.
Do you speak from a source, or just a hope?
zomg did recently comment on the next compact:
"Same kind of upgrade as Z1 -> Z2. Same size envelope with a bigger battery and slightly larger screen."
Makes me wonder if it might be coming sooner than CES 2015 as I kinda find it odd he'd have specs about a product that's almost an entire year away.
Posted by itsjustJOH
Just a hope, but I believe that's what should happen. A complete family in one big announcement. Sony does not do solo events, so I guess IFA is the best time to announce the family.
Posted by nodarsixar
Having heard the canopus and Altair?
Posted by ardian
On 2014-03-02 16:17:33, my ninja wrote:
@Ardian... the photos on page 131
real/fake should we expect that kind of bezel in the next device?
if so... i can wait, else.
with the bezels depends mate.....
Posted by my ninja
^^ thanks
so ill assume the photos were just of a device further down the calendar.. Z2 is just too big for my taste.. I wish wed get an update to the ZL sacrificing the thickness for tighter device..
Posted by Ricky D
What I would like to see as a release strategy is two distinctly different design languages each with a device in each of the current sizes. Same internals just a different shell.
For example an 'Arc' series and a 'Z' series where you know Arc 3 is equivalent to Z3 internally, just with a different design.
They did this in the SE glory days (W800 == K750). The design language would have to be consistent throughout the entire line of products, from Compact through Ultra to Tablet , just like we have with the Omnibalance range.
Also it would only work if the specs of the two line ups are identical. Not like they do at the minute where they have this mysterious T2 Ultra coming from nowhere with reduced specs fro the Z Ultra. They dropped the ball here as the 'T' line could have been the 'Arc' line.
...and I know what people here will say "why release two devices in each price category and sacrifice sales". I think in fact the reverse would be true. Consumers would go to Sony knowing that they are buying into a brand that when they upgrade, if they don't like the next design, there is an equivalent alternative without needing to adjust to new looking UI from a different manufacturer.
I almost chose a Nexus instead of Z because I didn't like the look of Z. I wanted a newer version of the TX. If I wasn't an avid Sony freak, I would have. But if there was a continuation of the Arc design with Z internals I'd have bought without a second thought.
Posted by CrownedAkuma
@RickyD
I was thinking exactly the same! I would love for them to mantain the omnibalance design, but also put in line with it another design... i.e. GlassArc design
BTW
http://blogs.sonymobile.com/2[....]2014-if-product-design-awards/
iF products design awards for Sony....
For Z1 Compact, Z Ultra, SBH52, Smartwatch 2 and Xperia C
Posted by amirprog
@itsjustJOH
Haha. lot's of wishful thinking here, including yours. 3 devices at the same time will never happen in my opinion. it would be disastrous in terms of marketing. well, we are allowed to dream.
@Ricky D
interesting idea, but in my opinion a flagship with 2 different designs would lack a uniqueness and will confuse consumers that will not know to recognize and remember a device. it's like a device with no name. it's like releasing every half a year a new flagship - the flagship loose a bit its uniqueness and anticipation. "oh, that other design, yeah, ok...". anticipation for a new design also needs to be built. this is just the same as what itsjustJOH offered - 3 devices announced at the same time will ruin anticipation. not logical for a company to do it.
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
Personally I don't like the Arc design. To me it feels flimsy in hand, like I could snap it at any moment, and at least in the phones we've had (talking Arc and TX from personal experience), I always felt they seemed far, far too plasticky and would start to look old quickly. They could improve it if they used metal or glass somehow, but I don't see this as a very cost-effective option for Sony.
Keep developing omnibalance please Sony.
[ This Message was edited by: Muhammad-Oli on 2014-03-03 03:55 ]
Posted by amirprog
@Muhammad-Oli
+1
if making arc with glass is too complicated then yeah, they should evolve omnibalance - with even smaller bezel and all sapphire front and back. sign me up for that device!
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-02 23:44 ]
Posted by ascariss
On 2014-03-02 17:37:48, itsjustJOH wrote:
I expect the Z3 family on IFA. The Z3, Z3 Compact, Z3 Ultra and the Z3 Tablet.
I seriously hope sony doesn't launch the z3 tab at ifa, would be a waste of resources.
I'm more interested how the new ultra will look one it arrives, same size or smaller? I really hope they remedy the no flash problem.
Posted by Wintermute
I'd be surprised if the next Ultra didn't come with a flash. It's almost eerie how Sony has addressed almost every major criticism of its phones. I'm sure that whoever noticed that users didn't like the Z1's display and bezels also noticed that people were shitting their pants over the ZU not having a flash.
Posted by miromiromi
the ultra should be converted into sony's mini tablet line. it didn't sell and it won't sell in its current form. sony should just produce 7-inchers and call them the ultra line. it's hopeless competing with the Note series. samsung fanboys will only brag that sony is riding on the bandwagon. sony has no 7-incher tablet line yet so the ultra should cover that.
Posted by Away
Ultra should definitely not become a tablet line. It SHOULD compete with the note series. It should become smaller, 5.9". It should be thicker with a much bigger battery, and have good input software with apps for productivity.
Posted by amirprog
The ultra can be successful ONLY if sony make it as second flagship with all the bells and whistles - like they did with the compact and like samsung and lg are doing. it actually should be better specced then the z2. they might as well stop ultra series if they won't do so. also they need to keep the ultra pocketable - another important thing for it success - definitely not go for 7 inch. they could make smaller version of the z tablet - z tablet mini, but that doesn't and shouldn't cancel the ultra series.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-03 11:08 ]
Posted by Ricky D
The difference in preference between Omnibalance and another design style (like Arc) is the precise reason Sony should run both side by side. I don't think it is confusing to the customer so long as the size categories are clear. It just adds a style option.
First one would choose the size 4+ inch, 5+ inch, 6+ inch or 10 inch, second, choose a style Omnibalance or Arc.
If the spec is the same throughout the full range then you know whatever size you get you'll be getting the best available and so have removed that part of the confusion.
One easily forgets that the average user goes into a phone shop and first picks with their eyes i.e. the best looking phone in sight, before a sales person comes and says "this one over here is the same but waterproof" or "this one has a better camera". Having two striking design in a world of samey samey looking phones has to be a plus right?
Posted by alexander87
On 2014-03-03 11:57:12, Away wrote:
Ultra should definitely not become a tablet line. It SHOULD compete with the note series. It should become smaller, 5.9". It should be thicker with a much bigger battery, and have good input software with apps for productivity.
Noooo, don't go smaller screen on the Ultra
If it was inevitable then I guess not below 6 inches, then it should still be okay.
I for one love that big a*s screen it has, really enjoy-ing watching episodes and playing games on it.
As for the camera update, I'd be pleased if they at least port the Xperia Z camera to it, with the flash ofc, so I can forgive them on the compromise for having an ultra = worse camera because maybe...the successor will be a very slim device too???
Posted by amirprog
@Ricky D
I understand your logic and i agree that 2 striking designs can be worth trying but only if sony will change their strategy for one flagship per year, otherwise it looses to lack of recognition and anticipation for a new design, etc. like i wrote before my opinion. a new phone needs to be special, not "another new day, another new phone". or "another new day, another new design".
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-03 11:47 ]
Posted by -XYZ
I heard rumours of Sony upgrading the Z3 sensor from 1/2.3 to 1/2 or something. Is this true? Or is that still in prototype phase due for 2015?
Are there any other rumours related to cameras, such as including some level of 2 or even 3 axis Optical, or sensor-shift image stabilisation?
Also anything about autofocus? Cause my Z1 compact has a horrible time focusing, even in bright, or medium light....let's not even talk about low-light....
Are there rumours of phase-detect, or hybrid autofocus tech included in the upgraded sensor?
If so, might get the Z3 compact....
Posted by CrownedAkuma
What about introducing a new design while mantaining the two flagship for year philosophy but with alternative design?
i.e.
First half of the year releasing the Z line flagship, with omnibalance design
Second half of the year releasing a new line (for example the X line) with a new design (for example the rumored GlassArc)...
At the beginning it would surely be confusing, no doubt. But this could also mean the the momentum and the buzz nefore every device would be bigger, because every device in a different design line would come out after a whole year. it would also mean MORE time to work on every single device, because you could have a little team always focused on a single line and also the jump between the every device in a different line would be bigger in terms of technology. This could also permits Sony to mantain the correct numeration between Tablet and Flagship (i.e. launching Xperia Z3 and Tablet Z3 at MWC 2015) instead of jumping a number as they did this year (NO Xperia Tablet Z1)... So it would be like this...
IFA 2014 Xperia X + Z2 compact and ZUltra 2
MWC 2015 Xperia Z3 + Tablet Z3 + Xperia X compact?
IFA 2015 Xperia X2 + Z3 compact and ZUltra 3...
and so on....