Posted by Smaug
On 2014-02-25 20:53:50, itsjustJOH wrote:
^So it's QD but using phosphor?
No, I believe the two are quite different. From a non-technical standpoint, QD technology is based on "semiconductor nanocrystal technology", or microscopic particles that emit light at specific wavelengths depending on their size. This allows QD-enabled displays to emit pure, accurate colours within a very narrow bandwidth and minimal waste of energy. It's essentially a layer that sits on top of the LEDs. Blue light passes through, is "energised" to specific wavelengths (RGB) and bounces off the light guide plate and out the top just like a regular LCD.
For colour purity and range, the more specific the wavelength, the better. That's why BRAVIA TVs with Triluminos look great. Many LCD TVs offer a colour gamut that only achieves 60-70% of NTSC standard. Tune this layer of nanocrystals right and you can get 100% of the standard with extreme accuracy.
What makes QD unique is that you get the best of both worlds: excellent CRI without the manufacturing cost/performance tradeoff typical of other lighting tech. OLED is expensive and difficult to manufacture on a large panel. QD offers similar benefits but at a lower cost.
Sony is unlikely to be the only manufacturer using QD technology for long. I believe Sony licensed patents from QD Vision, but Apple is conducting their own research in QDs. Last December Apple filed patents related to QD tech and again earlier this month. Phosphor-based LEDs may just be Sony's way of staying one step ahead.
As mentioned earlier, Xperia's phosphor-based LED tech appears quite different from a colour reproduction standpoint. I'm not even certain you can combine true Triluminos QD-based tech with the Live Colour phosphor-based LED tech. QDs passes the (normally) blue LED light through a layer of nanocrystals, which energises the wavelength to emit different colours. Phosphor is a material you coat the LEDs directly, or several layers (red and green in Xperia's case), which broadens the emitted spectrum.
Both appear to attain similar goals: purer, vivid colours with great accuracy and a very wide gamut. Yet from what information is publicly available, they achieve this through different processes. It could be possible to have both phosphor coated LEDs that then pass through a QD nanocrystal layer. But why? This would increase your manufacturing costs for a diminishing return. Logically you would chose one or the other depending on the panel.
It raises the suspicion that the Triluminos tech in Xperia devices is indeed a software-based enhancement. Conversely, it is the Live Colour enhancement on BRAVIA that is an algorithm powered by an image processor. Since BRAVIA TVs are much bigger and panel thinness isn't a priority, QD tech may be a better fit. For smaller panels (10.1 inch and below), phosphor-based LEDs may be financially feasible.
Note that my own Sony VAIO Pro (13 inch) has Triluminos, but no mention of Live Colour. Thanks to the quality IPS panel, it too is a fantastic display. Long live VAIO.
@Goldenface
The Xperia Z Ultra has a great display, but as far as I can determine it does not employ this phosphor-based LED technology. Certainly not in the same way that the XZ2 and Tablet Z2 does on a hardware level. The XZU White Papers made no mention of it, and given Sony's tendency to advertise technology trademarks (X-Reality, ClearAudio+ etc), it would be unusual if it did.
The XZU's great screen likely comes come down to a superb IPS panel, unlike the XZ1 which was rumoured to use a Vertical Alignment (VA) LCD. Combined with the Triluminos colour enhancement - be it software (likely) or hardware based - and a large viewing area and you get a fantastic display.
Posted by Away
Alexander87, you were right about the reporter!
http://www.xperiablog.net/201[....]peria-z2-and-xperia-z2-tablet/
Posted by jonfensu
More from Zomg
Android |OT3| This thread is incompatible with all of your devices.
This sounds interesting
From another source I have the 2014 mid-range at 4.8" 720p, 2GB RAM, 16GB and a 1.4GHz Qualcomm processor (MSM8916* if that means anything) and an 8MP camera with a slightly larger sensor (same as the 5S).
*MSM8916 = S410 (A 64 bit Quad Core CPU @1.4GHZ and Adreno 306)
Posted by Felimenta97
On 2014-02-26 01:53:53, jonfensu wrote:
More from Zomg
Android |OT3| This thread is incompatible with all of your devices.
This sounds interesting
From another source I have the 2014 mid-range at 4.8" 720p, 2GB RAM, 16GB and a 1.4GHz Qualcomm processor (MSM8916* if that means anything) and an 8MP camera with a slightly larger sensor (same as the 5S).
*MSM8916 = S410 (A 64 bit Quad Core CPU @1.4GHZ and Adreno 306)
I was actually more interested in the quite high number of devices getting Android 4.4. Even T, TX, TL and V, late 2012 flagships... Hopefully the early Z line (ZL, ZR, Z, Tablet Z) will have a quite long update history.
Posted by Xajel
On 2014-02-25 18:44:22, itsjustJOH wrote:
Because there's no Z2 Tablet thread yet:
Sony’s S-Force® Surround technology gives you a powerful surround sound effect without the need for multiple stand-alone speakers. For maximum effect, this gaming tablet has four 3D surround sound speakers instead of two. And the speakers are carefully placed so that your hands don’t block the sound when holding your tablet.
Xperia™ Z2 Tablet Features
Quad Speakers ? Cool !!
Why you don't create the new Z2 tablet thread ?
Posted by miromiromi
maybe if sony slapped a small (2"-3") e-ink display at the back of the device for viewing messages and notifications, it would have appeared a little more exciting.
or a low resolution amoled strip just for viewing notifications.
they can make these back panel displays have the same color as the rest of the back not to alter the design.
it will be a better power saving method compared to the galaxy s5's "monochromizing" to save power.
[ This Message was edited by: miromiromi on 2014-02-26 06:25 ]
Posted by Muhammad-Oli
On 2014-02-26 07:18:56, Xajel wrote:
Why you don't create the new Z2 tablet thread ?
It has been made already now.
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=206690
Posted by Lostsoulz
I'd said it be for and id say it again Why Only 16GB Internal Memory??? In The Flagship Z2! Again This is The only thing Stopping me Buying it. When will it Happen SONY? in the Z10??
Posted by dandyqb
in my case 16GB is enough, but i'm waiting for the next z ultra
Posted by DexterMoser
@Ardian:
Wasn't there something exceptional about the Z2 that you couldn't tell us before the announcement?
I'm just curious, what was it?
Posted by ardian
On 2014-02-26 13:19:20, DexterMoser wrote:
@Ardian:
Wasn't there something exceptional about the Z2 that you couldn't tell us before the announcement?
I'm just curious, what was it?
for that you have to have more time mate
... new flagship
Posted by Detox
On 2014-02-26 16:48:39, ardian wrote:
for that you have to have more time mate
... new flagship
Arc + Z2 = Z3
?
Also, is it still correct that the Ultras / Compacts (/Tablets) get updated yearly and the "real" flagships (i.e. Z, Z1, Z2) get refreshed every half year?
Posted by amirprog
@Detox
I would say more like, w-oled or 2k ips display (2k while preserving the same battery life
) and bigger camera sensor with dual LED. i would say also sapphire glass for front and back but that would still be unrealistic.[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-02-26 16:07 ]
Posted by ardian
On 2014-02-26 17:00:15, Detox wrote:
On 2014-02-26 16:48:39, ardian wrote:
for that you have to have more time mate
... new flagship
Arc + Z2 = Z3
?
Also, is it still correct that the Ultras / Compacts (/Tablets) get updated yearly and the "real" flagships (i.e. Z, Z1, Z2) get refreshed every half year?
well most likely will be that but... you know japanese people sometimes act so strange (i dont want to offend someone) you got it right....
Posted by goldenface
I seem to remember a past rumour about an Xperia Arc shaped flagship in the pipeline.
I'd like to see a super-slim 5.2", Xperia T/TX/Arc shaped flagship launched in time for the Summer.
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-02-26 17:06:53, amirprog wrote:
@Detox
I would say more like, w-oled or 2k ips display (2k while preserving the same battery life
) and bigger camera sensor with dual LED. i would say also sapphire glass for front and back but that would still be unrealistic.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-02-26 16:07 ]
If Sony are rolling out phosphor-based LED tech to their flagship models (XTZ2, XZ2) and the reception is positive, I would be surprised to see a switch to something like w-OLED so rapidly, especially if Sony has licensed the technology for a defined period like they did for Triluminos QD tech. Financially speaking, it would be a waste of licence and additional cost to change designs in quick succession.
You are better off making most of the licence and blocking out a large supply order to achieve lower unit costs. Partially explains the Xperia panel lottery last year. Even IGZO isn't perfect and Sharp reportedly sunk 10 years of R&D into it.
2K may sound overkill on a 5" phone, but then again a few years ago people said 1080P on a 5" phone was unnecessary. If it can be done without any drawbacks (high manufacturing cost, battery life), your wish will likely come true. Engineering is about compromises. However, I'd expect to see 2K rolled out on tablets first; perhaps the XTZ3.
Sony put a lot into their camera R&D and a larger sensor is inevitable. Don't expect an APSC-sized sensor anytime soon, but incremental improvements are a certainty. The question is where. As far as I can tell, the 20.7 Exmor RS already makes use of their new "Stacked CMOS" structure which improves low-light sensitivity in Sony's other sensors. 4K recording was added for the Z2. Adding Optical Image Stabilisation (not SteadyShot) would be a safe bet and I'd expect the new BIONZ-X processor to find its way into Xperia products too, but after that things get more speculative.
You never know about sapphire glass. Rumours continue to swirl about Apple snapping up sapphire glass supply, so if Apple could secure it for a massive iPhone 6 order, Sony possibly could too for a smaller run. It is plausible though that Apple intends to use sapphire in an iWatch-like device instead. The tech is already readily employed in commercial products. My own watch is made from sapphire glass.
Posted by amirprog
@Smaug
In one hand, i agree about the color LED reason, but in the other hand, samsung will dictate 2k to all other companies (or other advancement in display) when s5.1 announced in the coming months. imo sony should react with 2k or something else like w-oled ,sooner then later. i think that even if 2k brings only subtle change then it's worth it as long as they can preserve the same battery life. it's evolution. i tend to agree 2k and also w-oled will come only next year but maybe sony will surprise. i think that at least the next ultra needs to have something new for display and not only that color LED tech as it has big display and it's one per year device.
yeah, probably... btw, they say that LTPS and superior to IGZO - i'm wondering if Z2 display is LTPS because they use JDI panels and in JDI site they say that their 5.2" is LTPS.
i read that the next big thing in smartphone cameras is dual lens like htc is going for, read this: http://www.engadget.com/2014/[....]Src=email#lf_comment=141449455
where is sony in this matter? i would expect to hear rumors on a dual lenses in development from sony as they are the leaders in camera sensors.
i read somewhere that the cost of manufacturing sapphire glass is always going down and soon it will get not far from gorilla glass cost. i would love if sony does it this year but i doubt that.
this is why sony's goal needs to be one flagship per year so they can surprise. for Z3 it's like, you don't think they can even surprise in something. like new tech is to costly, etc.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-02-26 18:38 ]
Posted by Gitaroo
Some Sony news here
http://www.twice.com/articlet[....]es-will-close-20-stores/110107
Sony U.S. Restructures; Will Close 20 Stores
stock went up a bit, guess, it really isn't necessary to have retail chain anymore as long as you can stock your stuffs at bestbuy.
Posted by unknown13x
On 2014-02-26 20:33:01, Gitaroo wrote:
Some Sony news here
http://www.twice.com/articlet[....]es-will-close-20-stores/110107
Sony U.S. Restructures; Will Close 20 Stores
stock went up a bit, guess, it really isn't necessary to have retail chain anymore as long as you can stock your stuffs at bestbuy.
They need to fire or change their PR in the states too. Sony Mobile US has the worst consumer engagement compared to other regions. You can ask them something and they either won't reply or will give the "We'll let you know once we have more details" answer. While other regions are able to give an approximate date when something is arriving, the US community manager never gives a time. It's frustrating to consumers not knowing if something is coming or when it's coming. This is one reason I've never bought my devices from Sony US, but rather import them.
What's funny is some people ask when something is coming, the community manager says they have no details, then the product pops up on the site the next day.
Posted by Gitaroo
On 2014-02-26 21:31:21, unknown13x wrote:
On 2014-02-26 20:33:01, Gitaroo wrote:
Some Sony news here
http://www.twice.com/articlet[....]es-will-close-20-stores/110107
Sony U.S. Restructures; Will Close 20 Stores
stock went up a bit, guess, it really isn't necessary to have retail chain anymore as long as you can stock your stuffs at bestbuy.
They need to fire or change their PR in the states too. Sony Mobile US has the worst consumer engagement compared to other regions. You can ask them something and they either won't reply or will give the "We'll let you know once we have more details" answer. While other regions are able to give an approximate date when something is arriving, the US community manager never gives a time. It's frustrating to consumers not knowing if something is coming or when it's coming. This is one reason I've never bought my devices from Sony US, but rather import them.
What's funny is some people ask when something is coming, the community manager says they have no details, then the product pops up on the site the next day.
Going by some of the ZOMG posts, it seems like the mobile department were only given a budget and resources where they only have enough to do a big marketing push in EU and other regions where they are strong at. The supposed PR manager in NA is probably just a figure head where all the decisions are still being made by the same people that runs other region.
Posted by Smaug
@Amirprog
Most people would be happy to see Sony roll out 2K screens as standard. My concern would be if Samsung, as you said, forced Sony's hand to adopt 2K at the expense of something like new camera tech or diverting resources from more moon-shot R&D. Sony doesn't have the deep finances that Samsung does; they must pick their battles. That's why VAIO was abandoned. It is difficult to be known for innovating when you're constantly playing catchup. All that does is play into Samsung's hands as they could dictate the market knowing Sony (and others) will be watching instead of playing to their own strengths. That's where minimal respect for Apple comes in: they don't listen to others (NFC?); they dance to their own tune.
Sony's oft-stated goal for 2014 seems to be focused on "wowing" the customer, as put by Kaz. A vague but reasonable strategy as it is flexible enough to accommodate changing market dynamics. If consumers think 2K screens are "wow", Sony will do it. If stunning 1080p phosphor LEDs garner a more positive reaction, Sony will invest in that instead. I was initially surprised (and disappointed) to see the Tablet Z2 unchanged with 1080p. Clearly Sony doesn't believe 2K demand is mature enough to warrant the investment and perfecting FHD is more prudent for now. Or, that 2K currently requires too much compromise (battery life, production yield etc). Expect this to change going forward.
Technological evolution, as you noted, means eventually Sony will adopt 2K and perhaps even 4K in mobile devices. Trying to stay one step ahead of rivals by investing in the wrong USP (unique selling proposition) can lead to disaster - see the demise of Japanese TV manufacturers. That's why a fast-following strategy is inherently less risky than market pioneering, and Samsung are the masters of fast-following. Playing the leader is a position they are unfamiliar with; hence the lacklustre reception for the Galaxy S5. Last year they introduced a curved screen and the world shrugged.
I'm certain Sony will delight us with the XZ3 and beyond. They may feel its time to change the design game, introduce Triluminos QD Phosphor LED 2K screens, or go bezel-less (probably not that one though).
[ This Message was edited by: Smaug on 2014-02-26 22:16 ]
Posted by Away
I see the discussion has turned to 2k. Please, before we begin, can we remember 2k is for the idiotic journalists to use only. For everyone else, it's 1440p or 1600p.
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-02-26 19:32:40, amirprog wrote:
i read that the next big thing in smartphone cameras is dual lens like htc is going for, read this: http://www.engadget.com/2014/[....]Src=email#lf_comment=141449455
where is sony in this matter? i would expect to hear rumors on a dual lenses in development from sony as they are the leaders in camera sensors.
Indeed. As sensors go, that's Sony's playground. Note it isn't a mega cash-cow for Sony as they nominally sell for around $7-8 USD per sensor, but with large orders from customers like Apple it can add up.
Rumours from Sony Alpha forums are that Sony has some exciting camera tech in the wings that I'm sure will find their way into Xperia devices thanks to Kaz's directive. There's good reason Canon and Nikon stocks have dropped like rocks recently. However, while we can dream of A7r's FF sensor and 36MP, best to temper those expectations. Perhaps Sony could port some tech from their surprisingly good Action Cam range.
One questionmark is Samsung. Previously, Samsung flagships shared similar sensors as Sony flagships (8.1MP for S2/S4, 13.1MP for S4). Then Sony broke the gentleman's rule and developed the Z1's 20.7MP Exmor RS. So far this sensor has remained exclusive to Sony. Knowing Samsung's obsession with leading the numbers game (manipulating AnTuTu scores anyone?), I'd imagine this annoyed them royally. It's unknown if the S5's 16MP shooter is a Sony sensor. I read a while ago Samsung developed inhouse their own sensor tech they claimed was superior to the BSI Exmor RS currently employed by Sony, but this isn't really the right forum to discuss it. All we know is Sony is unlikely to rest on their laurels.
Posted by Away
Samsung are using their own because Sony kept this exclusive. It's really that good. Which means Sony's software is really that bad it makes this look just average...
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-02-26 23:57:02, Away wrote:
Samsung are using their own because Sony kept this exclusive. It's really that good. Which means Sony's software is really that bad it makes this look just average...
Sony can do great software. It is the Xperia camera team that disappoints. Sony Alpha's Bionz-X is a fantastic image processor. It produces great area-specific noise reduction, detail reproduction and accurate rendering. I own a Nex-5R and its older Bionz is still a commendable image processor.
Xperia's Bionz for Mobile we know is not up to standard. It is likely a work in progress. I'm not offering an excuse for Sony, but it's like judging Google based on Google+. Sony is capable of good camera software and I'm sure the criticism stung, just as it did the poorer quality screens. The 20.7MP sensor is still relatively new and Sony may be struggling to optimise its image algorithms for this particular lens.
We may see an evolution of the Bionz for Mobile processor for the Z3, just as we saw an upgrade from the original XZ's Mobile Bravia Engine to the XZ1's X-Reality for Mobile image optimiser.
Posted by Tizzo
Sony says Xperia Z2 is H1 2014 flagship; not sticking to a single design for future models
Source: http://www.xperiablog.net/201[....]ngle-design-for-future-models/
Posted by Wintermute
On 2014-02-25 20:21:12, Smaug wrote:
I've done a little more digging on the XZ2 and Tablet Z2's use of Sony's new display technology branded as Live Colour LED. Since displays have been a past criticism of Xperia phones, this warranted some curiosity. As always, I stand willing to be corrected by Esato's more informed posters.
Live Colour LED for Xperia appears to be reliant on technology called Phosphor-based LEDs. Phosphor LED technology is not new; in fact, it's been around for over a decade. However, Sony claim this is the first time a tablet has featured a phosphor-based LED display. This may be more than just a software solution (as currently employed in BRAVIA TVs).
Phosphor is a luminescent material that absorbs wavelengths of light and reemits the photons at different wavelengths. Most white LEDs are in fact blue LEDs with a phosphor coating. By coating LEDs with phosphors of different colours, you can emit a range of wavelengths. If several phosphor layers of distinct colours are applied, the emitted spectrum is broadened, raising the color rendering index (CRI) value of the LED as a result.
Sony uses red and green coated phosphors with the blue LEDs in the new XZ2 and Tablet Z2 to produce a wide CRI. They then layer a colour filter - perhaps based on the Triluminos software - to fine tune and avoid over-saturation.
The tricky part is this: phosphor-based LEDs produce excellent colour rendering but tend to have lower luminous efficacy due to the Stokes shift. Basically, they drain more power - not a tradeoff you want in a mobile device. Sony may have solved this problem, but how is a mystery. By combining multiple phosphors with different wavelengths from the original source, the luminous emittance can appear "brighter" due to the human eye's varying sensitivity to different wavelengths, but how you would incorporate this into a large panel that must display a wide range of colours is beyond me.
Reports out of MWC state the Tablet Z2 has a noticeably brighter and more vibrant display compared to the old Tablet Z, with some sites even reporting colour over-saturation. The question is what strain this places on battery life, if any. Note Sony increased the battery size for the XZ2, but the tablet remains the same. This may be offset by a more efficient S801 processor and other tweaks, but we'll have to wait for proper tests.
Here's where it gets interesting:
It's plausible that BRAVIA TVs employ hardware-based Triluminos technology using QDs, coupled with software-based Live Colour enhancements from a dedicated processing chip. For Xperia, Sony may be employing the opposite: software-based Triluminos colour enhancer, coupled with hardware-based Live Colour Phosphor LEDs.
This is just personal speculation though. It may be this is not even native to Sony, but actually developed by their panel suppliers such as JDI. Sony may just be the first to get their hands on it and brand it. Regardless, the days where Xperia displays were a point of contention among reviewers are hopefully gone.
I don't know how the new display works, but if I understand Sony's Triluminos branding correctly, here's what's happening: a regular LCD, as you said, uses blue LEDs with phosphor coating, the result being white light that is filtered by the RGB filters. I'm pretty sure Triluminos, on the other hand, refers to the fact that the display is NOT filtering regular "wide-band" white light, but instead is filtering white light composed of three very precisely defined wavelengths. Namely, the red and green colors produced by the phosphors, and the blue of the LED. In addition, the filters are tuned to the exact wavelengths of those colors. In theory, this would not only offer higher efficiency (since there's less "junk" light thrown away; if you want red, you just throw away blue and green, you don't have to throw away all the other shades of red that would be produced by a normal white LED), but also a larger gamut, since purer light would generate a larger space of colors.
Posted by Xajel
Even though I don't like the two flaggy policy that Sony Mobile is doing.. but I have some hope after they sold the VAIO business which is also a sad move for me.. but I guess Sony is doing something behind the doors...
getting rid of VAIO business means more money for the mobile, Sony is pushing the Sony Mobile devision more and more, and no VAIO means more money for Marketing, Research & Development and also support all of which important for Sony Mobile in the struggling financial situation of Sony
So After all, that extra money might actually get rid of negatives of having two flaggys per year.. not all of course... the problem will be the same of us who will feel that their devices are old after only 6 months...
The problem with Sony Mobile is that they're targeting more than one competitor in the same time and each one have different flagship release timeframe... so they're releasing two flagships to target the time frame of it's competitors...
As for VAIO, I have a feeling that the contract of it includes a term that Sony can get it back anytime they want... not something I read somewhere or some sources.. it's just a feeling... VAIO is very precious for Sony and they won't let it go as easy as this...
we actually don't know the details of this contract, will VAIO brand still be there ? or well it not ? will new models comes with VAIO brand ? will it still be premium brand ?
Posted by amirprog
@Smaug
Agreed. i think that sony need to wow as much as they can.
they don't seem to take camera software criticism very seriously - i guess it's more important for them to put a new phone in the market every half a year and if the camera is not really mature then it's fine, at least until Z3. if they listen to criticism then actually the next highest priority improvement they need to make with Z3 is to the camera software and/or hardware. all reviewers and a lot fo consumers said that Z1 is fantastic phone but only the display and camera software really put it back. some really disliked the film which is also gone. though, i don't think it will be enough for sony just to bring major improvement to the camera, they will need something more to put a strong mark with next phone.
@Away
going for 2k is evolution. maybe you can delay it but you can't stop it.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-02-27 07:37 ]
Posted by AbhiD999
On 2014-02-27 08:28:09, Xajel wrote:
Even though I don't like the two flaggy policy that Sony Mobile is doing.. but I have some hope after they sold the VAIO business which is also a sad move for me.. but I guess Sony is doing something behind the doors...
getting rid of VAIO business means more money for the mobile, Sony is pushing the Sony Mobile devision more and more, and no VAIO means more money for Marketing, Research & Development and also support all of which important for Sony Mobile in the struggling financial situation of Sony
So After all, that extra money might actually get rid of negatives of having two flaggys per year.. not all of course... the problem will be the same of us who will feel that their devices are old after only 6 months...
The problem with Sony Mobile is that they're targeting more than one competitor in the same time and each one have different flagship release timeframe... so they're releasing two flagships to target the time frame of it's competitors...
As for VAIO, I have a feeling that the contract of it includes a term that Sony can get it back anytime they want... not something I read somewhere or some sources.. it's just a feeling... VAIO is very precious for Sony and they won't let it go as easy as this...
we actually don't know the details of this contract, will VAIO brand still be there ? or well it not ? will new models comes with VAIO brand ? will it still be premium brand ?
The new company will sell Premium laptops under VAIO brand name in Japan.
And VAIO name is still and will remain licensed to Sony.
I too believe that Sony will buy back it's vaio division once it returns back to profit.
[ This Message was edited by: AbhiD999 on 2014-02-27 08:11 ]
Posted by Away
On 2014-02-27 08:28:35, amirprog wrote:
@Away
going for 2k is evolution. maybe you can delay it but you can't stop it.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-02-27 07:37 ]
Read what I wrote again.
It genuinely seems Sony take criticism seriously in mobile. The Z1 over the Z - better screen, albeit still not good enough; better camera let down only by bad software; the most competitive hardware; slightly more ergonomic.
Then from the Z1 to Z2 - cleaned up the rest. Screen with viewing angles (still see very little point from all those angles - admit it's useful sometimes though); screen with better contrast; better speakers; even 'little' things in the general public like no shatterproof film; better camera software.
They are still integrating all their technologies, it's a slow process, until we finally get to the point they are all there. The camera guys need to get there asap.
Posted by Xajel
^^^
I hope the next move will be 32GB internal standard on all flag-ships.. not just US versions
Posted by amirprog
@Away
Ok, i understand.
@Xajel
let's not get our hopes high. no company wants to dictate it as not much consumers criticize it, it probably saves a bit of money for manufacturing, micro sd can be always an excuse and its not a "wow" upgrade... so they do nothing.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-02-27 10:21 ]
Posted by Smaug
@Wintermute
Do you have any knowledge on how Sony deploys Triluminos for Mobile as compared to Triluminos in BRAVIA? It's believed that Triluminos on Xperia is a software only solution, while BRAVIA uses hardware-based Quantum Dot technology licenced from QD Vision to enhance the original backlight. It is based on their Colour IQ process.
However, this is difficult to verify. It may be more "common opinion" that turned into accepted fact. Sony have not clearly distinguished differences - if any - between Xperia's Triluminos for Mobile and BRAVIA's Triluminos. I'm personally sceptical of running both this Live Colour phosphor-based LED that is then passed through a Triluminos QD layer. While technically feasible, this would not only increase your manufacturing cost and complexity but for a diminishing return as they achieve the same thing: vivid, accurate colour rendering with a very wide gamut.
Triluminos on BRAVIA, from my basic understanding, essentially splits the blue LED into narrow wavelengths of green and red by energising the QD nanocrystals. Phosphor-coated LEDs (double coated in green and red for the new XZ2/XT2) would thus require filtering of numerous wavelengths. Why go to twice the trouble when one or the other would suffice? It would be like purifying your tap water twice. Triluminos relies on blue LED light, but Live Colour LEDs would be emitting RGB. A hardware-based Triluminos for Mobile would likely require significant modification - again, for little tangible benefit.
Note Sony claim the Tablet Z2 is the world's first application of their phosphor LED tech. Since false marketing can land you in hot water, this indicates the Tablet Z used a different colour rendering process.
Posted by itsjustJOH
I do believe that the mobile Triluminos is software since Sony has not explained the hardware process like how they explained QD tech and how it is being utilized in their BRAVIAs with Triluminos. Live Colour LED is hardware, no doubt. Why they used Triluminos as software and Live Colour as hardware in the Xperias but the other way around in the BRAVIAs, we could only wonder.
EDIT: Erica Griffin made a test to see how much wider the Triluminos screen of the Z Ultra is compared to the standard white LED backlight gamut. It is wider, but not as much making the claim of software Triluminos more valid.
Xperia Z Ultra: What is Triluminos?
[ This Message was edited by: itsjustJOH on 2014-02-27 13:06 ]
Posted by kats11
Next up
Pegasus ultra2?
Leo Z3?
Aries Z3f?
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-02-27 14:11:18, kats11 wrote:
Next up
Pegasus ultra2?
Leo Z3?
Aries Z3f?
NightWing, is that you again?
Posted by itsjustJOH
^You've been here before?
Posted by Smaug
On 2014-02-27 13:18:20, itsjustJOH wrote:
EDIT: Erica Griffin made a test to see how much wider the Triluminos screen of the Z Ultra is compared to the standard white LED backlight gamut. It is wider, but not as much making the claim of software Triluminos more valid.
Xperia Z Ultra: What is Triluminos?
[ This Message was edited by: itsjustJOH on 2014-02-27 13:06 ]
Thanks for the link itsjustJOH. Interesting... pretty clear breakdown: you get a small improvement but not the 50% gamut increase that Sony claims. Some decent software-based image post-processing could essentially achieve that for Z Ultra.
Not that I'm knocking the Z Ultra or its display. In the words of Engadget: "The best phone you'll probably never buy".
What is clear is that regardless of hardware/software Triluminos enhancements, with its modifications plus the X-Reality engine, Live Colour LEDs, switching to IPS panels etc you get the feeling Sony is sinking a lot into their displays recently. Here's hoping they get the recognition they deserve rather than the usual fawning over SAMOLED.
^
Yes, I've been ghosting these forums since rumours started on the XZ. Seen the various iterations of Nodarsixar, but lets not jump to conclusions. We should welcome anyone who has something to contribute to the community. Perhaps he knows something we don't
[ This Message was edited by: Smaug on 2014-02-27 13:43 ]
Posted by itsjustJOH
^I'd like to see how wide the gamut on the Z2 and the Z2 Tablet is. I know QDs produce narrowband reds and greens so gamut would be as close to OLED, so I'm really curious how those red and green phosphors would perform.
On 2014-02-27 14:37:43, Smaug wrote:
Yes, I've been ghosting these forums since rumours started on the XZ. Seen the various iterations of Nodarsixar, but lets not jump to conclusions. We should welcome anyone who has something to contribute to the community. Perhaps he knows something we don't
I don't know but his Googling powers are really good.
[ This Message was edited by: itsjustJOH on 2014-02-27 15:47 ]
Posted by DexterMoser
On 2014-02-26 16:48:39, ardian wrote:
On 2014-02-26 13:19:20, DexterMoser wrote:
@Ardian:
Wasn't there something exceptional about the Z2 that you couldn't tell us before the announcement?
I'm just curious, what was it?
for that you have to have more time mate
... new flagship
I want it now, damn!
Posted by Wintermute
On 2014-02-27 11:59:51, Smaug wrote:
@Wintermute
Do you have any knowledge on how Sony deploys Triluminos for Mobile as compared to Triluminos in BRAVIA? It's believed that Triluminos on Xperia is a software only solution, while BRAVIA uses hardware-based Quantum Dot technology licenced from QD Vision to enhance the original backlight. It is based on their Colour IQ process.
However, this is difficult to verify. It may be more "common opinion" that turned into accepted fact. Sony have not clearly distinguished differences - if any - between Xperia's Triluminos for Mobile and BRAVIA's Triluminos. I'm personally sceptical of running both this Live Colour phosphor-based LED that is then passed through a Triluminos QD layer. While technically feasible, this would not only increase your manufacturing cost and complexity but for a diminishing return as they achieve the same thing: vivid, accurate colour rendering with a very wide gamut.
Triluminos on BRAVIA, from my basic understanding, essentially splits the blue LED into narrow wavelengths of green and red by energising the QD nanocrystals. Phosphor-coated LEDs (double coated in green and red for the new XZ2/XT2) would thus require filtering of numerous wavelengths. Why go to twice the trouble when one or the other would suffice? It would be like purifying your tap water twice. Triluminos relies on blue LED light, but Live Colour LEDs would be emitting RGB. A hardware-based Triluminos for Mobile would likely require significant modification - again, for little tangible benefit.
Note Sony claim the Tablet Z2 is the world's first application of their phosphor LED tech. Since false marketing can land you in hot water, this indicates the Tablet Z used a different colour rendering process.
No no, Triluminos for mobile is unquestionably a hardware feature. There's no option to turn it off in the settings menu like for X-Reality, so that should give you a clue. The QD tech IS Triluminos. Basically, the backlight is pure blue. That blue light is then used both to provide the blue color for filtering, AND a portion of it also energizes the quantum dots, which re-emit the light at their defined wavelengths, red or green (it is worth pointing out that no "filtering" takes place in this process--blue light contains no green or red, so no matter how you filter it, you can never get pure green or red; the photons are totally absorbed by the quantum dots, and then they re-release separate photons of a different color). In this way, you get white light composed of very specific colors, unlike regular light, which is composed of a wide spectrum of thousands of colors. Think of it like a normal distribution (bell curve). The center of the curve would be the desired color, and the curve to the sides represents how much of other colors similar to (but not exactly) the color you want. Triluminos significantly narrows the curve, so you're getting much more of a specific color, which means when a filter is tuned to the wavelength represented by that color, proportionally more of the light gets through the filter.
Now, I'm pretty confident in guessing that they are still calling it Triluminos because they are still utilizing this approach, with the exception being that instead of using quantum dots, they are now employing some type of phosphor setup. To be honest, I don't know very much at all about phosphors, so I don't know the physical phenomenon behind it (so I can't guess as to efficiency or brightness), but I can say for certain that they would not use both phosphors and quantum dots. It wouldn't even make sense. You'd use one or the other. Perhaps they went to the Live Color phosophor-based solution in order to get around patent licensing fees? Don't know.
Anyway, to reiterate, I can also assure you Triluminos is very much a hardware feature. Pretty impressive stuff, really, if you ask me. If they've improved contrast over the Z Ultra (not that I found it lacking--in fact, it's pretty good, but it's the ONLY area that display didn't totally excel in), I don't see how anyone is going to equal Sony's new displays, unless you just can't live without over-saturated AMOLED. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I prefer a more properly calibrated display. I was pleased to see Erica Griffin's video stating that the black crush no longer seemed to be present, and that white balance was improved. You can tell just watching the video, even on my crappy monitor, that the new display is amazing. I really hope they bring this quality to the next Z Ultra. I don't think I've ever foamed at the mouth over a phone this much, lol.
Posted by Smaug
@Wintermute
Thanks for the informative post. There are a couple of questions remaining though.
Triluminos in BRAVIA splits the blue LED light and re-emits at red or green wavelengths using QD Vision's tech. Where things get murky is the Tablet Z2's Live Colour LEDs do not emit blue. Due to the double phosphor coating, the LED emittance is blue, red and green. This light then passes through the nanocrystal layer in order to energise the QDs into specific wavelengths.
Perhaps I am missing something in the process, but conventional Triluminos would not work under this method. You would need to modify the QD layer to absorb different wavelengths representing RGB, which would then... re-emit RGB again? If we use your bell curve analogy, sure you can get very narrow wavelengths (so very specific colours) but the phosphor tech is meant to incorporate this anyway. It is the missing piece of this display puzzle.
Note not being able to turn off the feature does not necessarily confirm it is not software based. You cannot turn off the BIONZ image processor, for example.
That's why I am perplexed as to why Sony would incorporate both hardware Triluminos and Live Colour LEDs. They do the same job but add development, manufacturing and licence costs and complexity. Admittedly, Sony haven't stated whether they licence the phosphor tech from a third party, but there are a few out there that specialise in it as this isn't new. Sony just claim they're the first to apply it in a tablet. In their promotions, Sony also distinguishes between Live Colour and Triluminos so they must be separate processes.
I read a research paper (thrilling, I tell you) discussing phosphor LEDs. In short, they produce a wide CRI value but at a cost: lower power efficiency due to the Stokes shift. By combining multiple phosphors, the luminous emittance can appear "brighter" due to the human eye's varying sensitivity to different wavelengths. In short, Sony's new displays should appear brighter, more vivid and with a broad colour gamut, but will drain more power and the screen will be hot.
Perhaps the Tablet Z2 and XZ2's displays are more advanced than we think. If Sony modified the Triluminos QD layer to absorb and re-emit the RGB from the coated LEDs, you'd get highly accurate colour rendering, 100% of NTSC gamut and bright screen. If they solved the power trade-off (note bigger battery in XZ2), even better.
Apologies for those that feel we've highjacked the Rumours thread. However, this has strong implications for future Xperia models. If true, combined with IPS panels and Sony may have unquestionably the best displays on the market. Resources could then be diverted towards improving camera software or speakers etc.
Posted by goldenface
Not at all. Interesting posts, I enjoy reading about how the new tech works.
Posted by ardian
On 2014-02-27 19:37:36, DexterMoser wrote:
On 2014-02-26 16:48:39, ardian wrote:
On 2014-02-26 13:19:20, DexterMoser wrote:
@Ardian:
Wasn't there something exceptional about the Z2 that you couldn't tell us before the announcement?
I'm just curious, what was it?
for that you have to have more time mate
... new flagship
I want it now, damn!
hahaha you cant have it now
.. Lebron waited like 8 years to get his first ring you need to wait only 6 months
Posted by vikeviki
^
Are you hinting us not buy Z2,what major changes we can see?
Posted by HxH
Ring gadget from Sony?
Posted by spw
On 2014-02-26 23:49:40, Smaug wrote:
Indeed. As sensors go, that's Sony's playground. Note it isn't a mega cash-cow for Sony as they nominally sell for around $7-8 USD per sensor, but with large orders from customers like Apple it can add up.
Global shipments of the (SONY) imaging sensor will probably grow to 3.14B units this year
Sensors made by Sony sold for an average of $7.30 each, almost four times the $1.93 that Samsung got for similar chips, based on 2012 unit sales and revenue estimates by TSR
Sony’s revenue from image sensors rose to $2.45B in 2012 from $1.89B a year earlier, garnering 32% of the global market
Omnivision ranked second with 14.4%, followed by Samsung at 12.9%
Sensors made by Sony sold for an average of $7.30 each, almost four times the $1.93 that Samsung got for similar chips, based on 2012 unit sales and revenue estimates by TSR
Sony’s revenue from image sensors rose to $2.45B in 2012 from $1.89B a year earlier, garnering 32% of the global market
Omnivision ranked second with 14.4%, followed by Samsung at 12.9%
Sony’s latest star performer isn’t a gadget like the Walkman or PlayStation. Instead, it’s a chip found in almost every high-end camera and smartphone. Apple’s iPhones 5 and 4S use it and so do Samsung’s flagship Galaxy S4 and LG’s G2, researchers say.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news[....]-apple-and-samsung-phones.html
It is over 3 billion business for Sony, and they are constantly expanding the production.
Posted by Tizzo
On 2014-02-28 04:03:09, HxH wrote:
Ring gadget from Sony?
^^ https://www.kickstarter.com/p[....]70738/ring-shortcut-everything ???
Interesting concept
[ This Message was edited by: Tizzo on 2014-02-28 03:17 ]
Posted by maloqs
Normally those prototype phones released 6 month before the announcement?