Posted by Xajel
@-XYZ @razec,
don't forget that OLED screens actually consume more power than regular LED back-lighted LCD's when displaying pure white ( all subpixels are working )...
Maybe, maybe, they uses a semi-transparent OLED panel and added an LED back-light also with a one way mirror between them...
For me, the only solution to have a good display and good battery life for this time, is to optimize Android and the SoC... and depend on IPS displays... if they design the SoC and optimize it for Android they will surly increase the battery life... Qualcomm proved it with their Dalvik optimization, and I think redesigning an ARM core specially for Android will greatly improve performance per watt...
Apple is doing it now already for their iOS... I know it takes time and resources, but if SoC makers unite their resources for this purpose, they will really make a different...
Or, we wait till better OLED materials is discovered... or invented which will take much longer time than optimizing ARM cores and Android...
Posted by MartenR
Crystal LED is actually the most efficient backlighted panel and closely followed by MEMS LCD.
@ insiders what do you think about this?
http://www.oled-info.com/auo-[....]tion-their-singapores-afpd-fab
The capacity is just 45000 panels a mounth.
[ This Message was edited by: MartenR on 2013-10-17 14:55 ]
Posted by sami92a
On 2013-10-17 13:17:47, SON1Q wrote:
@sami92a
I don't have any insider info but as an educated guess I'm thinking they put more resources into focusing on the Z1 and bringing it to market earlier and in more regions like the US.
The release date for the international Z1 f has probably moved from late 2013 to early 2014.
I'm guessing it will be released at CES '14 internationally.
This is actually a good thing as they can fix issues that may arise in the early batches of the Japanese Z1 f over the next few months so that the international version doesn't suffer from them.
yea ure right
Posted by karim128
On 2013-10-17 12:31:06, -XYZ wrote:
@razec
Biggest problem would be power. As physicists would know, increasing the frequency of light, increases its energy. Red has the lowest energy, green has the median energy and blue the highest energy. All that considered, means that Blue LED sub-pixel consume more energy (and tend to burn out faster) than the other two.
LCD's don't have this problem has they have uniform white LED backlighting (which isn't OLED), each pixel is only a colour filtre with the liquid crystal blocking a certain amount of light from each sub-pixel, depending on what colour is needed.
At least that is my understanding of the situation.
So based off that, having an additional White OLED sub-pixel, which runs at ALL frequencies of the visible spectrum in addition to the pre-existing RGB LED's, will only increase power consumption.
This is of course assuming we're adding a W sub-pixel to an RGB Stripe OLED display (i.e NON-PenTile), where there would be 4 sub-pixels per pixel, as is with the Xperia P. RGBW PenTile Displays already exist with OLED, but they only have 2 sub-pixels per pixel (RG, BW, RG, BW as opposed to just RGBW, RGBW)
This is only a guess based on what I know, so please don't quote me on this. I could be completely wrong here.
[ This Message was edited by: -XYZ on 2013-10-17 11:35 ]
Actually, there are two ways to make an OLED : either make white subpixel and apply a color filter in front of them to turn them into red, green and blue subpixel, or make subpixel that only emit one color. The biggest problem of using the first method, is that two thirds of the light are absorbed by the color filter (for example, in order to make a red subpixel, the red color filter absorb the green and blue light, leaving only the red which is less than third, but if you average the amount of light absorbed by the color filter in front of all subpixel, in absorbs exactly one third, assuming you're using a good color filter of course). In order to partially solve the problem, you add a white subpixel with no color filter at all. In case where you display pure white, no light is absorbed by the color filter as only the white subpixel is lit. In case you display either pure red, blue or green, no energy saving are made since only their respective subpixel (with the color filter) is lit. So you save more or less energy depending on how saturated your color is (the more undersaturated the color is, the more you save energy). Adding a white subpixel doesn't add anything when you don't use color filters in the first place like in OLED made by Samsung as there is no color filter to absorb light and energy.
And adding a white pixel have nothing to do with picture quality.
Edit : And image to explain the difference between the two technologies. Anybody that uses the second method adds the white subpixel (AUO, Japan Display, LG TV ...) whereas Samsung uses the first and don't use that subpixel .
[ This Message was edited by: karim128 on 2013-10-17 19:09 ]
Posted by MartenR
If the companies other than Samsung use filters then they are way behind Samsung. JDI's panel is said to have 10000:1 contrast ratio which is almost impossible to achive with filters.
Posted by karim128
On 2013-10-17 20:57:48, MartenR wrote:
If the companies other than Samsung use filters then they are way behind Samsung. JDI's panel is said to have 10000:1 contrast ratio which is almost impossible to achive with filters.
First of all, it's not a matter of "if", it is a fact that Japan Display, AUO and LG chose the color filter (you could google that).
Second, contrast have nothing to do with color filter: in both cases, you can turn off individual pixel which means black is really black and contrast is near infinite.
And every technology have its drawbacks and advantages, it's a design choice and not one behind the other. Using white oled with color filter, it is easier to make high resolution displays. They are also said to last longer.
Posted by red98
Xperia Z1 have 4 different types of the display.
- How many types of display have Xperia Z1 mini ???
[ This Message was edited by: red98 on 2013-10-17 21:25 ]
Posted by DACHA
AUO finally begins AMOLED mass production at their Singapore's AFPD fab
I'm not sure which panels are being produced there at the moment, but it's likely that AUO is producing the panels they have recently unveiled at trade shows - 4.4" 1900x600 (413 PPI) panel, 5" Full-HD (443 PPI) panel and their newest 5" HD720 AMOLED panels. Earlier reports suggested that HTC and Sony are waiting to integrate AUO's AMOLEDs in their mobile devices.
Posted by razec
I can hear the sound of an AMOLED Triluminos!!!
but I doubt that's feasible
great scoop DACHA!
on a serious note, do you think we can see Xperia phones with AUO AMOLED on at least early 2014?
I would love to read more about this AUO AMOLED and make my own comparison with SAMOLED panels
[ This Message was edited by: razec on 2013-10-18 15:02 ]
Posted by itsjustJOH
Probably the long-delayed 4.3 qHD OLED ordered by Sony and HTC?
Posted by razec
On 2013-10-18 16:25:31, itsjustJOH wrote:
Probably the long-delayed 4.3 qHD OLED ordered by Sony and HTC?
ugh qHD is quite outdated for an entry level 2014 smartphone
Posted by itsjustJOH
Well, they ordered it last year and production had been delayed for so long. They probably ordered other panels as well. The 4.3 qHD panel might be for a mid-range instead.
Posted by razec
On 2013-10-18 16:34:28, itsjustJOH wrote:
Well, they ordered it last year and production had been delayed for so long. They probably ordered other panels as well. The 4.3 qHD panel might be for a mid-range instead.
now that'd even worse
the old flagships will have higher res screens in comparison 
Posted by amirprog
JDI (a company owned by sony hitachi and toshiba) is also developing OLED display, a 5.2-inch Full-HD 423 ppi RGBW ("whitemagic") OLED display starting production in spring 2014: http://www.j-display.com/english/news/2013/20130521.html
so maybe a Q4 2014 - early 2015 sony flagship with that oled display. i say early 2015.
now i understand where the rumors for a 5.2 "Z2" display flagship came from, hehe, but it doesn't make sense for sony's next flagship to have that jdi display since the production of it will only be in spring 2014 assuming sony will introduce the next flagship around march-april...
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2013-10-18 16:02 ]
Posted by king-james
On 2013-10-18 15:43:14, DACHA wrote:
4.4" 1900x600 (413 PPI) panel
This can't be correct. It would be look then more like a long remote control.
I hope Sony won't go with OLED panels. LCD look way better IMO. OLED/AMOLED have fake colours. Only the deep black is great, nothing more...
[ This Message was edited by: king-james on 2013-10-18 15:50 ]
Posted by razec
So we're stuck at 1920x1080 for next year? not that It's a bad thing though
that OLED screen needs to be brighter though
Posted by itsjustJOH
On 2013-10-18 16:37:31, razec wrote:
On 2013-10-18 16:34:28, itsjustJOH wrote:
Well, they ordered it last year and production had been delayed for so long. They probably ordered other panels as well. The 4.3 qHD panel might be for a mid-range instead.
now that'd even worse
the old flagships will have higher res screens in comparison
A low-end then, probably. Like an upgrade to XL.
Posted by smclion102
Japan Display teases super crisp 432 ppi 7-inch panel for next year
The most interesting new prototype from Japan Display is a 7-inch tablet display that shatters current pixel density records. The 1,600 x 2,560 (Wide-QXGA) resolution of the new 7-inch LCD TFT panel translates to an amazing pixel density of 432 ppi.
Thanks to JDI’s WhiteMagic technology, the panel consumes 60 percent less power than conventional RGB displays, offering comparable brightness. The 1.17mm thick panel integrates touch and accepts stylus input, thanks to the Pixel Eyes technology.
Posted by MartenR
Is there any 7" tablet coming from Sony? My wild speculation is next Ultra coming with 7" display.
Posted by amirprog
On 2013-10-18 22:08:11, MartenR wrote:
Is there any 7" tablet coming from Sony? My wild speculation is next Ultra coming with 7" display.
makes sense, because it seems that sony see's the ultra as a tablet-phone and not as a phablet. it's not mobile - it cannot be carried in pants pocket, not when sitting, and they do not care about that for some reason. the question is, is there a place for a device like the z ultra as a phone? how many people are going to carry a tablet size device as a phone when they have to carry a bag with it all the time? i don't know any. how is the z ultra selling? seems very low. anyone got numbers? why is sony not developing a 5.5-6 inch phablet device? i guess they don't believe is that kind of device and see's the Z1 taking the phablet place also.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2013-10-18 21:45 ]
Posted by -XYZ
On 2013-10-18 16:47:02, king-james wrote:
On 2013-10-18 15:43:14, DACHA wrote:
4.4" 1900x600 (413 PPI) panel
This can't be correct. It would be look then more like a long remote control.
I hope Sony won't go with OLED panels. LCD look way better IMO. OLED/AMOLED have fake colours. Only the deep black is great, nothing more...
[ This Message was edited by: king-james on 2013-10-18 15:50 ]
Its how you calibrate the display to be honest. OLED displays are capable of phenomenal colour accuracy and colour gamut. Don't you remember the Sony XEL-1 OLED TV from 2008?
Also, 1600x900 is the exact same Aspect Ratio as 1920x1080, or 1280x720 (16:9), so I don't know what you mean when you say, "It would look like a long remote control"....It would look the same as current displays.
Posted by Ricky D
It is interesting where they're sitting with Z Ultra. I can't say I've seen any in the wild, but I an considering getting one for my dad. He could do with the extra functionality of stylus input and bigger screen and he carries his phone in is top shirt pocket or jacket pocket so the size isn't an issue. I do see many people in Beijing with Notes, and most of them carry the device in their jacket pocket or just in their hand. China is a very showy place though, bigger is better and displaying your wealth is the norm.
I'm still interested in news on Tab Z 2. Stylus input newest chipset and short announcement-release is important. I think for Sony to really start to gain traction they need to make sure that their US releases aren't as delayed as they have been. After all, all the big voices in tech reviews are over there and they are the ones who dictate to the masses.
Posted by itsjustJOH
On 2013-10-18 22:40:57, -XYZ wrote:
On 2013-10-18 16:47:02, king-james wrote:
On 2013-10-18 15:43:14, DACHA wrote:
4.4" 1900x600 (413 PPI) panel
This can't be correct. It would be look then more like a long remote control.
I hope Sony won't go with OLED panels. LCD look way better IMO. OLED/AMOLED have fake colours. Only the deep black is great, nothing more...
[ This Message was edited by: king-james on 2013-10-18 15:50 ]
Its how you calibrate the display to be honest. OLED displays are capable of phenomenal colour accuracy and colour gamut. Don't you remember the Sony XEL-1 OLED TV from 2008?
Also, 1600x900 is the exact same Aspect Ratio as 1920x1080, or 1280x720 (16:9), so I don't know what you mean when you say, "It would look like a long remote control"....It would look the same as current displays.
Oops, read it again -XYZ.
Plus, it could be a typo. Most probably 1900x1600.
Posted by Supa_Fly
On 2013-10-19 02:45:16, Ricky D wrote:
(EDITED) I think for Sony to really start to gain traction they need to make sure that their US releases aren't as delayed as they have been. After all, all the big voices in tech reviews are over there and they are the ones who dictate to the masses.
Well said, and I completely agree. The delay this time around is not Sony though ... its the US carriers and their befuddled testing being so slow - testing = branding!
For example ... for the first time in 8yrs Canadian carriers (Telus & Bell Mobility, Rogers Wireless) will be releasing the Xperia Z1 in 3 colours (White, Black, and Purple - the latter is respectively; I'm unsure who gets Black/White) roughly 30 days before any US carrier which I'm VERY shocked about!
Very cool.
Posted by -XYZ
On 2013-10-19 07:11:28, itsjustJOH wrote:
On 2013-10-18 22:40:57, -XYZ wrote:
On 2013-10-18 16:47:02, king-james wrote:
On 2013-10-18 15:43:14, DACHA wrote:
4.4" 1900x600 (413 PPI) panel
This can't be correct. It would be look then more like a long remote control.
I hope Sony won't go with OLED panels. LCD look way better IMO. OLED/AMOLED have fake colours. Only the deep black is great, nothing more...
[ This Message was edited by: king-james on 2013-10-18 15:50 ]
Its how you calibrate the display to be honest. OLED displays are capable of phenomenal colour accuracy and colour gamut. Don't you remember the Sony XEL-1 OLED TV from 2008?
Also, 1600x900 is the exact same Aspect Ratio as 1920x1080, or 1280x720 (16:9), so I don't know what you mean when you say, "It would look like a long remote control"....It would look the same as current displays.
Oops, read it again -XYZ.
Plus, it could be a typo. Most probably 1900x1600.
Can't be 1900x1600. That aspect ratio has never been used.
Posted by king-james
^
Maybe DACHA mean 1600x900. 1900x600 is impossible ratio...
Posted by DACHA
On 2013-10-19 17:53:29, king-james wrote:
^
Maybe DACHA mean 1600x900. 1900x600 is impossible ratio...
I copied that from the source article. Must have been a typo.
Posted by xdomino996
hmm 1900x600 4.4 is 452ppi, but 1600x900 is 417ppi. In article say 413. Very crazy
Posted by DACHA
@ razec
I do not think that Sony will use OLED displays in 2014. As far as I know Triluminos technology cannot be combined with OLED tech. If I am wrong feel free to correct me.
It think the Z2 will have a 5" IPS Triluminos display just like the Z1f.
Posted by amirprog
Yeah. Sony will probably not use OLED for flagships in 2014 because there is not even scheduled production for that JDI's 5.2 inch flagship OLED display yet: http://www.oled-info.com/japa[....]t-build-pilot-amoled-line-2014 . OLED display will probably won't be coming from AUO either: http://www.auo.com/?sn=107&lang=en-US&c=9&n=1505 . No production schedule reports there either. it seems that sony waits until OLED will evolve a bit more. maybe in 2015 it seems.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2013-10-19 19:25 ]
Posted by redhotiron
On 2013-10-19 02:45:16, Ricky D wrote:
I think for Sony to really start to gain traction they need to make sure that their US releases aren't as delayed as they have been. After all, all the big voices in tech reviews are over there and they are the ones who dictate to the masses.
I don't know what you mean by ALL the big voices in tech reviews are in US which dictate to the masses(I hope it doesn't include any other country except USA itself)?
I believe that there the mobile market is only dictated by the mobile networks and not by the individual brands like Samsung, SONY etc. If the networks want to sell it the people there have to buy the same thing without much choice.
Here in India, handset instead of mobile network is what matters the most. So, at the end of the day mobile companies knows that giving money to mobile networks is not going to work. But, they would need to be competitive not only on the price front. But, also on the hardware and software specifications.
And that's why these big companies cannot afford to be lenient with us. They are always on there toes and make sure that we get the latest and the best in order for them to survive.
It really doesn't matter what reviews any other country(even US) gets out. As they are irrelevant for us. And for majority of the world countries where the networks are not dictating the sales of mobiles!
Posted by Ricky D
@redhotiron
Perhaps my slightly throw-away statement was misleading. What I meant was that the majority of smartphone buyers will research their options online before even seeing any of the perspective handsets in-hand (simply because the internet is always much more convenient). The tech sites dictate opinion, the people buy what is available dependant on network and region availability.
During their research they will be met by 2 different types of resources: the manufacturers website (which will be obviously single sided in favour of the product) and the tech blog/website offering reviews and comparisons (supposedly unbiased). From these tech reviews many buyers will gain their first and most lasting impression of the devices in that price/size range and most of those will make 80% of a decision of which handset they will buy. This is all before they have even handled any of the devices in person with any serious interest.
I'm not talking here about the non-tech savvy masses only, but as far down the line as here in a fairly specific enthusiast forum, many of our impressions of new devices are derived from reviews, low quality hands-on vids and second hand info. How many here have held and played with Z Ultra and seen it side by side with Z1? But how many here can say they 'know' the Z1 screen is not quite as good?
Of course there are exceptions, some people change buying habits specifically to circumvent this effect, but the big tech sites form the popular opinion and until Sony can win over the US they will not be taken seriously in the same bracket as Samsung and Apple.
Posted by supercoolman
just add to Ricky D's point
I failed to convince many people to consider Z1 due to the following reasons.
1. price tag
2. doesn't come with charging dock with that premium price
3. review sites talk about it's very easy to not seal those waterproof flaps properly hen charging
4. review also said 99.99% of the time, sony refuses to warrant any phone damaged by water got in from any of the flaps
their mind got set to charging without dock will most likely destroy waterproof, so sony is out of their consideration with a premium price tag
Posted by pmugghc
Z1s is the international version of Z1f?
http://www.tuttoandroid.net/cellulari/sony-xperia-z1s-z1f-150719/
[ This Message was edited by: pmugghc on 2013-10-20 09:04 ]
Posted by redhotiron
On 2013-10-20 04:30:20, Ricky D wrote:
@redhotiron
Perhaps my slightly throw-away statement was misleading. What I meant was that the majority of smartphone buyers will research their options online before even seeing any of the perspective handsets in-hand (simply because the internet is always much more convenient). The tech sites dictate opinion, the people buy what is available dependant on network and region availability.
During their research they will be met by 2 different types of resources: the manufacturers website (which will be obviously single sided in favour of the product) and the tech blog/website offering reviews and comparisons (supposedly unbiased). From these tech reviews many buyers will gain their first and most lasting impression of the devices in that price/size range and most of those will make 80% of a decision of which handset they will buy. This is all before they have even handled any of the devices in person with any serious interest.
I'm not talking here about the non-tech savvy masses only, but as far down the line as here in a fairly specific enthusiast forum, many of our impressions of new devices are derived from reviews, low quality hands-on vids and second hand info. How many here have held and played with Z Ultra and seen it side by side with Z1? But how many here can say they 'know' the Z1 screen is not quite as good?
Of course there are exceptions, some people change buying habits specifically to circumvent this effect, but the big tech sites form the popular opinion and until Sony can win over the US they will not be taken seriously in the same bracket as Samsung and Apple.
Yes, People will research the internet for reviews and there was a time when there were fewer sites. Now, the regional sites have taken over and those kind of tech sites have mushroomed all over the world. So, single country domination(US) on the net is not possible now. I am not against US or the fact that people there want better and latest handset available by any manufacturer in the market.
But, the fact is that the system which you have developed is the biggest culprit that makes it possible for the mobile networks to sell an inferior product over a superior product. I have read articles in the past on how a lot of good mobiles and handset makers faced difficulties(even perished) without he help of mobile networks. Some very good models never got the attention and sales that they deserved because the network didn't support them.
Companies like SONY would never succeed without the network's help. And they don't need to release the latest handsets to have good sales because of network's monopoly.
Sony was considered as better than Samsung here in India before. Now, they are pretty much even here in India. The biggest looser have been Apple as both these companies have eaten the majority share of Apple customer.
However, in US Samsung and Apple are a rage. They have strong network ties. I don't think Sony actually eyes US as a huge market with many potential customers as it's pretty hard to get in there. Because of network's monopoly.
Posted by BenLing
Xperia Z1S Image Leaked
Posted by milukugiuniu
AFAIK, Z2 will use ips.
Posted by razec
On 2013-10-20 16:39:25, milukugiuniu wrote:
AFAIK, Z2 will use ips.
That should be XR3, right?
Posted by milukugiuniu
On 2013-10-20 16:58:36, razec wrote:
On 2013-10-20 16:39:25, milukugiuniu wrote:
AFAIK, Z2 will use ips.
That should be XR3, right?
Almost 4 or 5
Posted by sami92a
is Z1S the international Z1 F ???
Posted by Michalis3
Probably...
Posted by emporium
[ This Message was edited by: emporium on 2013-11-03 13:46 ]
Posted by supercoolman
Z1S for being lower (smaller) in spec than Z1F?
Posted by MartenR
I guess Z1 and Z are IPS already, aren't they?
Posted by ArsenalFan
nice side to side comparision by Spontex
Z1-S vs Z1
Z1-S vs Z1-f
Posted by razec
On 2013-10-20 18:35:43, MartenR wrote:
I guess Z1 and Z are IPS already, aren't they?
AFAIK no Z units ever had IPS, but there were certain Z1 units produced with similar screen as ZU (which uses IPS)
Posted by rency0722
I think there's a possibility for Xperia Z1 to be capable of 4K recording once Android 4.3 update is ready. 4K video recording is only supported when Android 4.3 was released.
Posted by admad
Well yeah, Z1 is capable of shooting 4K, but it's just not gonna happen. The only time Sony changed video recording resolution was with Xperia X10i, and it was because all flagship phones released at that time could do 720p. That is not the case with 4K, as only Note 3 currently has it. So there really is no need to bring that to Z1, when You can brag about 4K with Z1 successor
Posted by rency0722
How about the development of Camera apps? It's been limited since the unveiling, but i'm looking forward for more camera apps, NEX-esque.
Posted by apolloa
The Z1S COULD be the international Z1f OR it COULD be the T Mobile Z1 from what I've read. Nobody seems to know for sure
If it is the international Z1f then it's a lil better I think with the more square corners?