Posted by mr_lou
I feel I should post this, since I've now spent way too much time, energy and money on this issue. So maybe you can avoid doing the same, by reading this post.
When the Arc came along I could easily see that its features were exactly what I'd been looking for. Unfortunately it was too big for my liking, so I was happy to hear about the Neo.
The Neo is described as a "smaller version of the Arc". Everywhere you read online, both devices otherwise have the same hardware specs; 1GHz processor, 8.1MP Exmor R camera, HDMI, Bravia Engine etc. And they're both running the same OS. There's no reason to believe, that Neo should be any different than Arc, except its design and size. And regarding design and size, I definitely prefer the Neo.
So I bought the Neo as soon as it became available in my country, and sadly discovered, that when recording videos, audio volume was only about 60% loud compared to those recorded by an Arc. But since the speaker-microphone in that Neo seemed to be defect, I assumed that maybe that was the problem with the backside microphone as well.
So I returned it and bought another Neo in another shop, but the result was the same: Audio in video-recordings were only about 60% as loud as those done by an Arc.
I got a hold of Sony Ericsson Xperia support, to ask if it really was supposed to be like that. Their reply: "That's a good question. We actually don't know. But let's test. We happen to have an Arc and a Neo here. Hang on".
So they tested on their Arc and Neo while I was on the phone, and afterwards they could confirm that their Neo also did the same. And they even found the cause why:
When recording a video with the Arc, it utilizes both its microphones to record the audio.
When recording a video with the Neo, it utilizes only one of its microphones to record the audio.
I simply can't believe it's supposed to be like that. The more I've thought about it, the more I'm sure it's a production flaw. One that'll probably be hard for Sony Ericsson to admit.
I know there'll be people defending Sony Ericsson no matter what, and claim something silly like "You can't expect the same from a cheaper phone". Give it a rest, and use your head before posting sillyness like that.
1) Both devices have 2 microphones
2) When Neo uses only 1, audio is only about 60% of what it is on the Arc
3) Would you really claim that it has made production cost cheaper to only use one of the microphones?
I'm very disappointed about this, since I'd been looking forward to the Neo for a looong time. In fact, I've been waiting for the Neo since my W800. (Although my Aino is a decent substitute for the W800). And now I'm struggling with the shop to get my money back.
So there you have it. If video-recording is important for you, avoid the Neo. If you don't care that much about audio volume only being about 60% of what the Arc gives you, then go right ahead. Everything else in the Neo was great. Unfortunately, video-recording is one of the most important features to me.
[ This Message was edited by: mr_lou on 2011-06-22 11:28 ]
Posted by io_bg
This sounds like a software issue which they could easily fix. And I'm hoping they'll do it...
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-22 13:26:23, io_bg wrote:
This sounds like a software issue which they could easily fix. And I'm hoping they'll do it...
That would really be sweet if it was possible. But I fear it's a hardware issue.
The first Neo I bought came with Android 2.3 preinstalled. It had the problem then, and after I upgraded to Android 2.3.3
The 2nd Neo I bought came with Android 2.3.3 preinstalled.
So given that the Arc's and Neo's used for testing all ran the same Android version, I don't think it's software related.
Posted by xtacy
I think he meant that perhaps it could be coded to enable the second microphone thereby solving the problem.
Posted by kaizerp900
I can understand the point you are trying to make but it's not a world ending drawback for many people.
The specs & design of the phone are top notch & more than a match for many phones out there so if you have discovered a minor issue it sounds perfectly possible that it could be corrected via a software update but as I say I do not seem to suffer from this "low audio" issue at all , I had the arc before I had the Neo & couldn't tell difference. I have recorded the same footage with my Neo & my friends Arc & again they sound the same to both of us.
I have used the Neo to record footage at concerts etc... & when played back through either the phone / through tv via hdmi output or through a pc the sound is pretty loud (a little too loud for my liking as bass distorts more than i'd like)
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-22 16:17:00, kaizerp900 wrote:
I can understand the point you are trying to make but it's not a world ending drawback for many people.
True, I know that a lot of people don't care.
On 2011-06-22 16:17:00, kaizerp900 wrote:
The specs & design of the phone are top notch & more than a match for many phones out there so if you have discovered a minor issue it sounds perfectly possible that it could be corrected via a software update but as I say I do not seem to suffer from this "low audio" issue at all , I had the arc before I had the Neo & couldn't tell difference. I have recorded the same footage with my Neo & my friends Arc & again they sound the same to both of us.
See that puzzles me. And I've also wondered about if there's a difference between series. The Xperia Neo was delayed in my country (twice) because the needed components were difficult to come by, due to the disaster in Japan.
This has led me to wonder, if certain series of the Neo comes with a lesser quality components, which causes this issue.
That way some would have a Neo that does exactly what it's suppose to do: Behave just like the Arc.
While others have this lesser quality version. That would explain why some say there's no problem at all.
Except that I just called Sony Ericsson Xperia support again, and asked if they were sure it wasn't a production flaw. They were very certain that it was definitely not a production flaw. It was just they way they decided to make the Neo. And I asked him if he didn't find that just a little bit illogical, to change the way Neo works compared to the Arc, when they both have 2 microphones that could be used, he just replied: "No, not illogical at all. They're two different models".
On 2011-06-22 16:17:00, kaizerp900 wrote:
I have used the Neo to record footage at concerts etc... & when played back through either the phone / through tv via hdmi output or through a pc the sound is pretty loud (a little too loud for my liking as bass distorts more than i'd like)
I imagine that a concert would probably do that yes.
You say that you have recorded the same footage with your friend's Arc and your Neo and can't hear the difference? Is there any way you can post a link to these recordings? I'd really very much like to see/hear them.
Posted by DentyCracker
I agree with you that it is illogical to use one one mic if two are available. If you plan to store the videos for use elsewhere then boosting the audio volume with a video editing software is probably your only resort. One would hava thought though that for video they'd have ensured that both mics were in use (stereo anyone)
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-22 16:58:36, DentyCracker wrote:
I agree with you that it is illogical to use one one mic if two are available. If you plan to store the videos for use elsewhere then boosting the audio volume with a video editing software is probably your only resort.
Yes, I can use a video-editing software to apply an audio-normalize filter. I've done that before with the Vivaz recordings, but it quickly got annoying. I also did it with some Neo recordings to test, and the difference is very clear to hear after applying the audio-normalize filter.
But I expected more from Neo. It makes absolutely no sense at all that Neo gives a much lower audio-volume in video-recordings, than Arc does. Yet, Sony Ericsson Xperia support claims it's makes perfect sense. :-|
I'd really love to check out some footage done by a Neo + an Arc at the same time. Can anyone out there help provide some tests? Does your Neo utilize both its microphones or not when recording video? (Try tapping on each while recording video).
My Neo is back in the box, but as it seems to be impossible to get my money back, I can probably make a few examples as well to show you the difference.
If the Neo's in e.g. USA appears to be fine, maybe we could identify the flawed series.
The two flawed Neo's I've tested have serial number BX902EMD68 and BX902EKJSF. So both starting with BX902E.
Posted by mr_lou
Looking at the video-samples for both the Neo and the Arc at GSMArena.com, you can also hear the difference.
http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_neo-review-595p6.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_xperia_arc-review-584p7.php
Although it's just traffic noise, you can easily hear the Arc records the audio at a much higher volume. It's difficult to appreciate in the examples though, because it's just traffic noise. But when recording people talking in a room, you will definitely appreciate the Arc much more than the Neo.
I can't help but to wonder if the Pro and Mini and Mini Pro and Ray will be as good as Arc, or as bad as Neo.
I guess I'll have to go down to the shop and make test recordings with them all, then transfer the files via bluetooth to my Aino, and then go home to find out. 
Posted by kaizerp900
See now to me the sample of the arc recording is far too loud , if anything I personally think it sounds distorted, granted it's only recording traffic but still sounds too loud.
The neo sample sounds a lot more to my liking, at the right sort of level to hear nicely without causing just a mass of noise.
I can only imagine how ear piercing the arc sample would sound through headphones.
I will do another recording with my friends arc & my neo & get them uploaded asap as when we did a recording it was in our office building & to us they sounded the same.
Like you say there could be the very slim chance of a batch of neo's having lower spec components but I personally can't see it being the case.
I think most people will not have any issues with the sound level of the Neo & be over the moon with all the features it is capable of including the 720p video recording.
My Neo is a imported Hong Kong model & I assume to be the very first batch as I ordered it as soon as it was available. maybe just maybe the first batch are better in some way.
The main point i'm trying to make is please (talking to all prospective Neo owners out there) don't let this possible issue put you off getting a Neo as it is an amazing phone.
I urge you to go have a try when it is finally released in your area & make your own mind up.
I have had mine since March & have loved every single minute, in fact i'll go as far to say that this is my favourite Sony Ericsson phone ever.
Posted by Mizzle
Just tried it out. Wasn't too sure about the mic on the back in the first test, but it's definitely active in the second.
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-22 17:52:58, kaizerp900 wrote:
See now to me the sample of the arc recording is far too loud , if anything I personally think it sounds distorted, granted it's only recording traffic but still sounds too loud.
The neo sample sounds a lot more to my liking, at the right sort of level to hear nicely without causing just a mass of noise.
I agree that on those exact samples at GSMArena.com, it sounds terrible on the Arc example, but it isn't the best example to use either.
I have an example where the sound from the Arc recording is clear and crisp, and when playing the recording from the Neo, volume has to be turned up before being able to hear what people say.
On 2011-06-22 17:52:58, kaizerp900 wrote:
I will do another recording with my friends arc & my neo & get them uploaded asap as when we did a recording it was in our office building & to us they sounded the same.
Looking forward to that. Meanwhile, I'm pondering about putting together an mp3 demonstrating the audio by different devices.
I did 3 tests, comparing Neo with Aino, N82 and Arc. Both Aino, N82 and Arc had about the same volume, while Neo's volume was much lower. Only Vivaz comes lower.
Posted by mode
Most probably a software issue rather than hardware, they probably haven't noticed it or didn't think too much of it. I'm sure SE would look into it if you made enough noise
Posted by Bonovox
From what I read in reviews even though the Neo is the same spec wise as the Arc. Reviews have said that the screen is worse & even the camera. But yes that does sound like a software issue. I would perhaps wait & email
cos believe it or not they do listen. Cos I emailed them once asking about the poor volume in the x10 earpiece. In the last x10 update said that it will enhance earpiece audio. I am not sure if it has but it shows they took what I said on board. So if you mail it to them they will hopefully fix it in an update.
Posted by mr_lou
Video demonstrating audio-differences:
http://dewfall.dk/compare.mp4
Posted by kaizerp900
Then you must be unlucky & have 2 faulty neo's from the same batch coz there's no way it sounds that low on my Neo & I reckon a few other Neo owners will vouch the same.
it's defo not a widespread problem with Neo owners as never read / seen anyone on other forums mention any kind of audio issue like the one you're having.
Most of the reviews are talking out of their bums , the camera is the same in Neo as the Arc & the pics are almost identical but I would not use the word "worse".
That makes it sound terrible when it fact it takes some amazing pictures.
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-22 21:09:27, kaizerp900 wrote:
Then you must be unlucky & have 2 faulty neo's from the same batch coz there's no way it sounds that low on my Neo & I reckon a few other Neo owners will vouch the same.
it's defo not a widespread problem with Neo owners as never read / seen anyone on other forums mention any kind of audio issue like the one you're having.
It's been very difficult for me accepting that the audio should be like that, so it's good to finally hear someone agree with me. No one else does, including Sony Ericsson Xperia support. Of course, they haven't heard the audio from my Neo, but they were convinced the Neo was built with lower audio-recording on purpose.
Anyone else who'll agree that something is wrong with the audio recorded from my Neo in the previous mp4 example file?
Posted by mr_lou
Found an example at YouTube that shows the same result.
Video recorded with Arc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePWybgugZUA
Same video recorded with Neo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omopr1hZHqc
The audio on the Arc video is clearly much cleaner and louder and better than the Neo recording.
As far as I can see, those videos are uploaded by a user from Hungary. Whether Hungary got Neo's from the same batch as Denmark or not, I don't know. But at this point it's getting increasingly difficult to determine if this is just how all Neo's behave, or if we're talking only a certain batch of Neo's.
Still waiting for someone to come up with example videos done by Neo + Arc at the same time, that shows a different results. If anyone is able to do this, then there should be no doubt that it is infact a certain batch of Neo's that are flawed.
Posted by angel_15htg
you want the arc inside your neo?
seems like you're only after the HD video recording, then why dont go for a hd videocam instead?
after all, its not only HD video the neo can offer.
Posted by tai020381
Sell the Neo and buy an arc??
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-23 13:27:10, angel_15htg wrote:
you want the arc inside your neo?
That's exactly right. I want(ed) a Neo that does the same things Arc does since they both have the exact same hardware specs. I'm sure most people assume that the Arc and Neo will behave the same way, since they do infact behave the same in every other aspect.
On 2011-06-23 13:27:10, angel_15htg wrote:
seems like you're only after the HD video recording, then why dont go for a hd videocam instead?
after all, its not only HD video the neo can offer.
I'm getting real tired of answering this question. But here goes again: Because I don't want to carry two devices with me all the time. If I go with that solution, experience shows I'll never bring the HD video recorder with me anyway. Sit down and practice accepting that some people have this preference.
On 2011-06-23 16:05:13, tai020381 wrote:
Sell the Neo and buy an arc??
I've finally managed to get my money back for both the Neos I bought. But I won't buy Arc. I avoided the Arc from the start because it's too big for my liking (as previously stated). I've really tried changing my preference on that matter, but I just can't. Everytime I try holding my coworkers Arc, it just feels wrong. I want something the size of Neo, or even smaller, while keeping the video-recording quality of the Arc. Why is that so difficult to get?
Xperia Ray appears to be the next device in the line, to match those criterias, but I really have to stop assuming logical things about Sony Ericsson products. They keep making illogical decisions. That's the lesson I've learned more than once now about SE products: Assume nothing! You'll be surprised if you do.
I'm sure everyone at this moment, have high expectations to Ray, and expect it to be really really cool and great. Does anyone here expect it to be slow? Or missing a feature the Arc had? Or be produced of a lesser quality plastic? Or have worse battery-time than Arc? Anyone? No? Wanna bet?
Still, I'm sure I'll end up buying it anyway. But it'll definitely be from a net-shop, because that's the only way I have a chance to test it properly and return it if I'm disappointed.
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-22 17:52:58, kaizerp900 wrote:
I will do another recording with my friends arc & my neo & get them uploaded asap as when we did a recording it was in our office building & to us they sounded the same.
How's this coming along?
Posted by tranced
Assuming Xperia pro is a QWERTY Xperia neo, is there a chance this phone has the same 'fault'?
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-06-29 13:58:32, tranced wrote:
Assuming Xperia pro is a QWERTY Xperia neo, is there a chance this phone has the same 'fault'?
First lesson: Assume nothing! From what I've learned up till now, the Pro could very well be a lesser quality version of Neo - only with a keyboard - because that makes sense...
Dammit I'm tired of these disappointments.
Still, have to try out the Ray. Can anyone tell me a good shop to order from? I won't wait till it arrives in my country this time.
[ This Message was edited by: mr_lou on 2011-06-29 15:29 ]
Posted by Bonovox
Clove website now have stock for UK of the Neo for £340. Also you may take into account that the Neo is a cheaper version.
[ This Message was edited by: Bonovox on 2011-06-29 20:34 ]
Posted by max_wedge
Well I'm getting Neo in a few days - will let you all know how it goes.
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-09-18 13:44:33, max_wedge wrote:
Well I'm getting Neo in a few days - will let you all know how it goes.
I've learned, that the low audio in video-recordings is a firmware thing. Early firmware recorded mono sound loud enough. Newer firmwares record stereo sound way too low. (Needs to be boosted at least 250% before it's usable).
So if you value video-recording, either flash your Neo with an old firmware, or manually edit each video you record to boost the audio volume.
Check out this example to hear the difference:
http://www.dewfall.dk/compare2.mp4
(Yes, I ended up buying the Ray, which is exactly the same because both Arc/Neo/Ray runs the same firmware).
[ This Message was edited by: mr_lou on 2011-09-19 06:04 ]
Posted by c96sthl
LOL I always found it weird this thread start with "Warning "
but now with Bonovox give up Neo for dust under his display.
I have to add it as a warning.
Dust was found under my camera lens which is more ridiculous then under the display.
so.... in a way Neo have a good package but the factory that build them seem to have issue.
Posted by max_wedge
I just tested some video (I will upload some better tests soon) but video of myself talking phone about 2 feet away, and recording video off the computer screen (speakers about 2 feet away, medium volume) yielded a more than satisfactory results. Audio is strong and clear.
But I will obviously need to do some test at greater range.
Gingerbread 2.3.3 kernal version 2.6.32.9. What version is the newest? This phone may have been on the shelf for a couple of months - the silver units aren't shifting as fast as the blue or red.
btw, I am loving this phone! Not withstanding the video issue, I am very impressed with SE ergonomics. They put the small touches that seem to make a big difference. Also the hardware seems top notch - the screen is bright and very clear, the audio output quality is brilliant on loudspeaker mode (as well as headphones). The touchscreen is superb.
Very happy so far.
Posted by mr_lou
max, it's not a question of which version of Android is installed. That doesn't matter.
It's a question of which firmware version is installed.
Version 3.0.1.A.0.145 gives mono sound in video-recordings, and the volume is good.
Version 4.0.A.2.368 gives stereo sound in video-recordings, and the volume is way too low.
Some Neo's comes with 3.0.1.A.0.145 and some comes with 4.0.A.2.368.
If you're on 3.0.1.A.0.145 I strongly advise you to NOT update.
Posted by Del
I had a look at one of these today and I must say I was very impressed by it, so much so that I will be getting one this weekend
Posted by max_wedge
On 2011-09-19 16:09:57, mr_lou wrote:
max, it's not a question of which version of Android is installed. That doesn't matter.
It's a question of which firmware version is installed.
Version 3.0.1.A.0.145 gives mono sound in video-recordings, and the volume is good.
Version 4.0.A.2.368 gives stereo sound in video-recordings, and the volume is way too low.
Some Neo's comes with 3.0.1.A.0.145 and some comes with 4.0.A.2.368.
If you're on 3.0.1.A.0.145 I strongly advise you to NOT update.
Actually I did wonder, infact I saw the "build number" but for some reason didn't equate this to "firmware version". But yes, I have 3.0.1.A.0.145. I won't update, atleast not unless a port of audio drivers becomes possible.
Funnily when I checked for updates (not to perform them, just to see if one is available) I was told my device has the latest software! So the 4 version must not be released for my region yet.
Posted by mr_lou
On 2011-09-20 03:40:56, max_wedge wrote:
Funnily when I checked for updates (not to perform them, just to see if one is available) I was told my device has the latest software! So the 4 version must not be released for my region yet.
Either that, or else SE has realized there's a problem with the new firmware.
I've seen two examples now, where an Xperia Arc has problems installing from Market, after it's been updated to the new firmware. And my Ray (running the same new firmware) also has problems installing from Market quite often. Too often.
It's no problem going online, nor even to browse the Market, but to install apps is difficult. Mostly it just keeps hanging.
Posted by max_wedge
On 2011-09-20 09:56:01, mr_lou wrote:
On 2011-09-20 03:40:56, max_wedge wrote:
Funnily when I checked for updates (not to perform them, just to see if one is available) I was told my device has the latest software! So the 4 version must not be released for my region yet.
Either that, or else SE has realized there's a problem with the new firmware.
I've seen two examples now, where an Xperia Arc has problems installing from Market, after it's been updated to the new firmware. And my Ray (running the same new firmware) also has problems installing from Market quite often. Too often.
It's no problem going online, nor even to browse the Market, but to install apps is difficult. Mostly it just keeps hanging.
Very interesting. So I'm wondering now if it's worth rooting my Neo, since it involves back dating to Android 2.3.2, rooting, and then updating back up to 2.3.2.
I guess the question is what's really useful in 2.3.3 that I can/can't live without, or if I do downgrade/root/upgrade - will I get version 3 or version 4 firmware?
If the video problem is that bad, I probably won't root or upgrade firmware until ice cream sandwich comes out.