Posted by Platia1
Put on a Xenon Flash, and watch people complain that the device is too thick.
Posted by NightBlade
On 2011-11-06 17:33:35, Platia1 wrote:
Put on a Xenon Flash, and watch people complain that the device is too thick.
I won't.
TBH I couldn't care less about how thick it is.
Posted by moogoo
i think people would welcome the xenon flash even with the addition of a few more mm's of thickness or even a camera "bump" on the back...i know i wouldn't mind if i knew my camera was rockin!
Posted by lolstebbo
On 2011-11-06 14:09:43, aamwng wrote:
On 2011-11-06 14:05:18, argiriano wrote:
On 2011-10-29 07:51:29, juris15 wrote:
http://seat.it168.com/attachm[....]/27/20294220s81mb2bs888808.jpg
http://seat.it168.com/attachm[....]/27/202919surr7gyr3999prbr.jpg
[ This Message was edited by: juris15 on 2011-10-29 06:52 ]
We can assume that device on this previous leak isn`t Nozomi but Aoba or some other device, 'cause the bulge at the back.
[ This Message was edited by: argiriano on 2011-11-06 13:06 ]
I think that will be Xperia ray2. The bulge will be the camera!
I don't think so; The first batch of phones to be released next year should be the Arc and Neo replacements (and the Play if they keep that line alive).
Posted by io_bg
^ It was mentioned earlier that work on the Play replacement was cancelled, they'll make a new (fortunately more powerful) device instead.
Posted by adsada
On 2011-11-06 23:26:20, io_bg wrote:
^ It was mentioned earlier that work on the Play replacement was cancelled, they'll make a new (fortunately more powerful) device instead.
Could you post a source for this information? I don't recall any official statement that the play 2 had been cancelled...plus if they would design a more tech heavy gaming device it would not only a, compete with their own PSP Vita and b, kill the ecosystem they're trying to build with the playstation certified content, if they were to start all over again with more graphical rich games what would they call it? Playstation certified plus?. The xperia play doesn't just need to be a game console, the advantage of this device is that you can play any game on the android market, with greater control (if they're xperia play optimised) then other phones which just have touch buttons. With my arc, I've plugged in a game controller thanks to the 2.3.4 update and a lot of games are much more fun to use with it.
[ This Message was edited by: adsada on 2011-11-06 22:46 ]
Posted by Ricky D
My source in China said Play2 was cancelled as Sony's first order of business n SE.
RE: xenon flash
I actually believe the main problem is the battery consumption. Smartphones with big screens barely last a day as it is and it's something every manufacturer is acutely aware of. The general public won't like that their phones last few hours but takes 'slightly' better (than Exmor R) pictures, the trade off is a clear one in the general consumers' eyes. Of course anyone with an eye for photography will be able to tell the difference but then wouldn't anyone with an eye for photography use a real camera for the good shots?
Posted by NightBlade
It makes a HUGE difference for night shots. I've seen plesnty of pictures taken wiht regular led flashed and they're pathetic. Not to mention blurry, most of the time, due to increased exposure time.
Posted by razec
On 2011-11-07 02:39:51, Ricky D wrote:
My source in China said Play2 was cancelled as Sony's first order of business n SE.
RE: xenon flash
I actually believe the main problem is the battery consumption. Smartphones with big screens barely last a day as it is and it's something every manufacturer is acutely aware of. The general public won't like that their phones last few hours but takes 'slightly' better (than Exmor R) pictures, the trade off is a clear one in the general consumers' eyes. Of course anyone with an eye for photography will be able to tell the difference but then wouldn't anyone with an eye for photography use a real camera for the good shots?
Those problems can be easily ironed if Manufacturers are serious with their commitment. its just that they are too afraid to do something that defies the general public perception. I recall the same thing was said when people think a high resolution and large sensor camera phone would eat more battery than a the crappy cam module that was generally available. TBH i'll put the blame on the stupid current trend of making "slimmest" phones which prevents powerful batteries as well as useful hardware like Xenon flash from being integrated. iphone 4s/SGS2 had a great camera quality but they're too slim that they don't offer the comfortable grip we enjoy with true digicams
Posted by admad
About xenon, I don't think the concern is battery life. That's true, xenon consumes a lot of energy, but then, how often does one use camera? Let alone camera with xenon flash
It's pretty rare, but very usefull nonetheless. And I remember having xenon on k800i, battery was still good, and I still remember very neat feature called BestPic, wonder why nobody does this anymore?
IMO mobile phone makers made a pact with camera manufacturers, just think about it, camera sensors in mobile phones are so good these days, that customer asks himself, do I need compact camera? Just look at this, cheap compact cameras can't do 1080p, phones can. The only advantage of compact cameras is night performance thanks to flash. And that's what still keeping them(also optical zoom, but it's not that very useful as xenon)... Put a xenon in many phones, say bye bye to compact cameras market. It's sad but probably ture. I mean we saw xenon flashes in 2006-2009, what made them disappear? (only one phone N8 continued the tradition, but has no successor)
Posted by Ravager
I don't think it's the battery either, I would say it's the thickness. Due to the size of the capacitors they can't make the phone thin enough.
And AFAIK most people care more about thickness then xenon flash. I'm not one of those though, I would love an Android with xenon.
Posted by goldenface
I think most people just 'expect' some sort of continuation of the the range of winning phones, which although the picture quality beyond the K800i was not mind blowing, the features such as Xenon? Active lens cover? BestPic? - which cached 5 pics before and pics after you let go of the focus button?
All the extras were great.
More than anything else it is the Xenon which I miss most from Sony Ericsson and I still miss it today. Walkman has reappeared with Android but what happened to Cyber-shot? After all, it's one of the things that made Sony Ericsson great.
Posted by Ravager
@goldenface
Totally agree.
And with todays sensors and lenses getting better. With a xenon flash they could kill the ´point and shoot´ camera segment.
[ This Message was edited by: Ravager on 2011-11-07 10:14 ]
Posted by goldenface
The thing is I don't think people really mind putting up with the extra width as long as there is the advantage of having a decent flash.
I almost never posted pics in the esato photo threads when I stopped using my C905.
Raidersky?
Posted by disiz
Still no xenon flash on Nozomi ?!
Then I'll stay on HTC phones, and keep my Satio for photos...
Years ago, SE was a good brand, with Walkman & Cybershot on their phones. Then Android has come and SE has fall...
Posted by Karun
Looking at it from a different viewpoint, all the manufacturers are probably waiting a while till they get xenon back. Lets face it, there is never going to be a perfect phone. Probably they feel that a slim design, faster and better processors is the need of the hour or rather the demand.
Its not worth blaming SE. None of the other manufacturers are adding it in their devices. If it was such an advantage, someone would have brought it back. I feel xenon will make a comeback soon, the only question is when.
[ This Message was edited by: Karun on 2011-11-07 11:02 ]
Posted by aamwng
When the phones can't get any thinner...
Posted by randomuser
Hmm. I really don't understand why so much fascination about having the thinnest phone ? IMO 10mm-12mm is more than adequate thinness for a smartphone to not be a pain to use.
Posted by smclion102
Everything has become Thin these Days "NANO Technology"
Posted by Detox
On 2011-11-07 12:48:54, randomuser wrote:
IMO 10mm-12mm is more than adequate thinness for a smartphone to not be a pain to use.
I couldn't agree more.
From unknown13x from XDA:
Also, don't judge the device from what you see. These test devices are missing half the special hardware that will be in the final product. Not that they're going to exclude it, but for cost saving and for internal demo purposes, they did not include it. SE's been doing this since the Arc, so many sites are clueless to what will appear in the final product. So if you're already satisfied with what the rumor says, there would be more to please you when it announces...
Posted by goldenface
AFAIC it's still the easiest way in which then can differentiate themselves from otherwise 'run of the mill' similar looking smartphones out there.
How long have we been crying out for an android version of Satio?
Posted by argiriano
On 2011-11-07 12:48:54, randomuser wrote:
Hmm. I really don't understand why so much fascination about having the thinnest phone ? IMO 10mm-12mm is more than adequate thinness for a smartphone to not be a pain to use.
I agree for 4" screen and more 10mm thickness is good enough. I found that Ray thinnes along with the small size of the device make it pretty challenging not to drop.
Posted by Platia1
They have brought back Walkman phones to Android in name only, no dedicated music keys, nothing special in terms of audio quality, same old crap headphones in the box (the Arc etc come with ok headphones)
It's like bringing back CyberShot to a phone with a 3.2 megapixel fixed focus camera.
Hence my hope for a phone version of the Walkman Z Series. That would be a stunning phone for me.
Posted by DACHA
Did anybody notice that the notification bar in the leaked photos is on the wrong side?
Also based on this it will have the MSM8660 dual core processor.
[ This Message was edited by: DACHA on 2011-11-07 14:32 ]
Posted by argiriano
On 2011-11-07 15:31:46, DACHA wrote:
Did anybody notice that the notification bar in the leaked photos is on the wrong side?
Also based on this it will have the MSM8660 dual core processor.
[ This Message was edited by: DACHA on 2011-11-07 14:32 ]
It`s not on the wrong side, it`s that way because selected language is Hebrew - it reads from right to left, you know.
This so called source, has copied the news like many of the sites on the web, but they state some of the suggestions as facts and bring nothing new.
First, MSM8260 and MSM8660 has the same specs, the only difference between them is networking - HSPA+ for 8260 and HSPA+/CDMA2000 for 8660.
Second, actual display density is 341 and the number 320 point to scale modelling for extra-high density.
Posted by Karun
Unknown13x is a trusted source. So the hardware is better than what we know as of now. Seems to be a promising device. Sony, surprise us!
Posted by argiriano
On 2011-11-07 17:25:05, Karun wrote:
Unknown13x is a trusted source. So the hardware is better than what we know as of now. Seems to be a promising device. Sony, surprise us!
The source may be even Sony CEO, but that doesn`t change tha fact that MSM8260 and MSM8660 are exactly the same processors.
There`s nothing better in higher number in this case just different network coverage.
Posted by aurelius
On 2011-11-07 20:04:12, argiriano wrote:
On 2011-11-07 17:25:05, Karun wrote:
Unknown13x is a trusted source. So the hardware is better than what we know as of now. Seems to be a promising device. Sony, surprise us!
The source may be even Sony CEO, but that doesn`t change tha fact that MSM8260 and MSM8660 are exactly the same processors.
There`s nothing better in higher number in this case just different network coverage.
Posted by badassmam
http://pocketnow.com/android/[....]uad-core-phone-revealed-images
Pocketnow state that HTC will have the first quad core, the HTC Edge. The sales men will be saying, "dual core is alright but quad core is twice as good". I guess quad cores are the flavour for next year then, are people disappointed? I still don't even see the need for a dual core, but I can see a price drop in some decent phones and I guess Nozomi should be cheap or released soon or even with a quad core, sorry.....its late.
Posted by pauvincent
don't people learn? Last year before the arc was released it was running on 800mhz then when it was announced it turned to 1ghz same case with nozomi upon release the procesor will probably change
[ This Message was edited by: pauvincent on 2011-11-07 23:33 ]
Posted by NightBlade
On 2011-11-08 00:29:31, pauvincent wrote:
don't people learn? Last year before the arc was released it was running on 800mhz then when it was announced it turned to 1ghz same case with nozomi upon release the procesor will probably change
[ This Message was edited by: pauvincent on 2011-11-07 23:33 ]
That's all very nice and well, but what should have happened is that they should have doubled the cores as well.
They didn't.
And they won't this time either.
Posted by kewsvnet
we are still talking about phones rite???
how many cores does it take to make a phone call!!! lol!!!
Posted by FMW300
What about this pic that surfaced in June? Was it completely fake or cancelled or what?
On 2011-06-17 23:57:02, SIC87 wrote:
new pic duo with arc
Posted by Karun
On 2011-11-08 00:29:31, pauvincent wrote:
don't people learn? Last year before the arc was released it was running on 800mhz then when it was announced it turned to 1ghz same case with nozomi upon release the procesor will probably change
[ This Message was edited by: pauvincent on 2011-11-07 23:33,]
Precisely. So the 1.5ghz spec might change. So no point speculating till we atleast know the correct clock speed.
Posted by pauvincent
On 2011-11-08 01:21:07, NightBlade wrote:
On 2011-11-08 00:29:31, pauvincent wrote:
don't people learn? Last year before the arc was released it was running on 800mhz then when it was announced it turned to 1ghz same case with nozomi upon release the procesor will probably change
That's all very nice and well, but what should have happened is that they should have doubled the cores as well.
They didn't.
And they won't this time either.
What I meant was this will not be the final specs not the clock speed their would be changes before announcement like the arc
[ This Message was edited by: pauvincent on 2011-11-08 02:08 ]
Posted by randomuser
On 2011-11-08 03:03:51, pauvincent wrote:
On 2011-11-08 01:21:07, NightBlade wrote:
On 2011-11-08 00:29:31, pauvincent wrote:
don't people learn? Last year before the arc was released it was running on 800mhz then when it was announced it turned to 1ghz same case with nozomi upon release the procesor will probably change
That's all very nice and well, but what should have happened is that they should have doubled the cores as well.
They didn't.
And they won't this time either.
What I meant was this will not be the final specs not the clock speed their would be changes before announcement like the arc
[ This Message was edited by: pauvincent on 2011-11-08 02:08 ]
Whatever might be the clock speed it is turning out be the same story as this year. Sub par hardware, months behind the competition. I really do not understand why
did not learn a lesson this year ?????
Posted by yuunanase
Agreed, the do not have the best hardware for the top end phones (arc), but they definitely have the best hardware for mid and low end phones (mini, live w/ walkman). All
, or now sony need is the phone module in the PS Vita, and there we have a quad core phone ahead of HTC.
On 2011-11-08 04:24:12, randomuser wrote:
On 2011-11-08 03:03:51, pauvincent wrote:
On 2011-11-08 01:21:07, NightBlade wrote:
On 2011-11-08 00:29:31, pauvincent wrote:
don't people learn? Last year before the arc was released it was running on 800mhz then when it was announced it turned to 1ghz same case with nozomi upon release the procesor will probably change
That's all very nice and well, but what should have happened is that they should have doubled the cores as well.
They didn't.
And they won't this time either.
What I meant was this will not be the final specs not the clock speed their would be changes before announcement like the arc
[ This Message was edited by: pauvincent on 2011-11-08 02:08 ]
Whatever might be the clock speed it is turning out be the same story as this year. Sub par hardware, months behind the competition. I really do not understand why
did not learn a lesson this year ?????
Posted by aamwng
There is a LT28at (said to be for AT&T in US) and a ST25i
https://picasaweb.google.com/[....]gpCE2sbWUdSbJIA?full-exif=true
https://picasaweb.google.com/[....]SeyNdXxZPLuxLaA?full-exif=true
https://picasaweb.google.com/[....]aY4peSyvsSfpf1A?full-exif=true
Posted by koss
Such ugly photos... with same awful quality like ARC.. sony (ericsson) will fail next year... HTC is making progress in camera deparment.. samsung same.. apple same... motorola same... Sony will fail down in camera capabilities with such awful pics.. EVen are prototypes phones.... quality of camera samples is toooo awful. I'm waiting for two years to buy a sonyericcson device but now I am 80% convinced that I will buy htc or samsung or iphone next year..
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-11-08 13:24:26, koss wrote:
Such ugly photos... with same awful quality like ARC.. sony (ericsson) will fail next year... HTC is making progress in camera deparment.. samsung same.. apple same... motorola same... Sony will fail down in camera capabilities with such awful pics.. EVen are prototypes phones.... quality of camera samples is toooo awful. I'm waiting for two years to buy a sonyericcson device but now I am 80% convinced that I will buy htc or samsung or iphone next year..
HTC are rubbish at camera performance and haven't changed much over the years, the improvement aren't worth mentioning IMO. Motorola, well, they have always been the follower and haven't even done well as decent followers to the leaders. The only really good Moto in the camera stakes was the ZN5, I wonder how much influence Kodak has had on that device since after that they have pretty much reverted back to their old dull self.
Samsung, on the other hand, have always had the potential and have over the years translated that potential into some stunning camera phones. Some of those were actually better than SE's. Then there's Nokia, the reigning camera phones champions, their record speaks for itself.
Sony, I am sure will get back to the top in the camera phones challenge, having everything in-house will help them control everything now that they don't have to sabotage Ericsson
Let's also not forget that this is a Sony Ericsson phone and not a Sony one.
Anyway, I am considering getting this along the Razr and then ditching the one I am not happy with, or keep them both and use the best one while at other times I use the other. I guess there's something about owning the last phone of 'dead' manufacturer.
Hmm... this could also be the first phone of the 'new' manufacturer since it may be branded Sony.
I am really beginning to like this phone.
Posted by DACHA
Based on PhoneArena the HTC Amaze 4g has a better camera than the iPhone4s. About 4 months ago HTC changed the camera modules they use and it gave them a huge improvement in picture quality.
I would say that a lot of people have to high expectations for mobile cameras. There is no way that a cell phone camera is ever going to be as good as a point and shot camera.
Posted by HxH
Good to see HTC camera has a bit of improvement here, anyway only performed well under good light condition with exceptional details of picture, color tones and white balance still vastly need some major overhaul.
Look at iPhone 4S camera, it's outstanding performance from broad-daylight to night shot, I wonder that why Amaze 4G is over hype.
I hope to see next
camera software for xperia 2011 has bit lower noise-reduction as well as picture quality compression. And 2012 line-up should serious considered revamp lenses quality at first place along with bit more natural color tones.[ This Message was edited by: HxH on 2011-11-08 15:13 ]
Posted by koss
On 2011-11-08 15:57:04, DACHA wrote:
Based on PhoneArena the HTC Amaze 4g has a better camera than the iPhone4s. About 4 months ago HTC changed the camera modules they use and it gave them a huge improvement in picture quality.
I would say that a lot of people have to high expectations for mobile cameras. There is no way that a cell phone camera is ever going to be as good as a point and shot camera.
Q: WHY DIDN'T INCLUDE XPERIA ARC IN THAT COMPARATION?
A: BECOUSE COMPARED TO THOSE PHONE XPERIA ARC IS A DISASTER IN CAMERA
i'VE said before that xperia arc and iphone 4 don't share same sensor. Iphone 4 has a sensor developed by sony specially for apple !!! PLus lenses present on xperia 2011 family are plastic ones not glass ones present in c905 or k800 family.
Right now ipnone 4s is the king in smartphone mobile phone camera quality. I don't include here Nokia N8 becouse is software dead and has multiple hardware manufactures problems.
I am not a fan of apple brand but I recongnize that photos taken with iphone 4s are 5stars
[ This Message was edited by: koss on 2011-11-08 16:22 ]
Posted by DACHA
On 2011-11-08 17:17:48, koss wrote:
On 2011-11-08 15:57:04, DACHA wrote:
Based on PhoneArena the HTC Amaze 4g has a better camera than the iPhone4s. About 4 months ago HTC changed the camera modules they use and it gave them a huge improvement in picture quality.
I would say that a lot of people have to high expectations for mobile cameras. There is no way that a cell phone camera is ever going to be as good as a point and shot camera.
Q: WHY DIDN'T INCLUDE XPERIA ARC IN THAT COMPARATION?
A: BECOUSE COMPARED TO THOSE PHONE XPERIA ARC IS A DISASTER IN CAMERA
i'VE said before that xperia arc and iphone 4 don't share same sensor. Iphone 4 has a sensor developed by sony specially for apple !!! PLus lenses present on xperia 2011 family are plastic ones not glass ones present in c905 or k800 family.
Right now ipnone 4s is the king in smartphone mobile phone camera quality. I don't include here Nokia N8 becouse is software dead and has multiple hardware manufactures problems.
I am not a fan of apple brand but I recongnize that photos taken with iphone 4s are 5stars
[ This Message was edited by: koss on 2011-11-08 16:22 ]
When
was using Sony technology like cyber-shot and Walkman in their phones that is where they made the most profits. After 2008 they stopped to make good cyber-shot or Walkman phones and lost a lot of market. Hopefully now that Sony is in charge they will use more of the old proven technologies from Sony in the new Sony phones.
Posted by adsada
On 2011-11-08 17:42:09, DACHA wrote:
When
was using Sony technology like cyber-shot and Walkman in their phones that is where they made the most profits. After 2008 they stopped to make good cyber-shot or Walkman phones and lost a lot of market. Hopefully now that Sony is in charge they will use more of the old proven technologies from Sony in the new Sony phones.
Eh, let's be clear when the Cyber-shot and Walkman names were used in SE phones they were merely branding. Walkman phones has the exact same mediaplayer as other Cyber-shot phones around, with the addition of it being skinned and a maybe had a shortcut button to the mediaplayer. Granted Cyber-shot phones were more then that having a xenon flash and various camera features, but still the brand was the main part. They sold well because they were great to use, good designs and had a great marketing campaign.
And actually, the main reason they lost a lot of the market is because of these so called copycat Walkman and Cyber-shot java based phones which you speak so highly of, SE thought they could continue down this road and failed to notice the sudden uptake of smartphones. They've already tried to bring back the Walkman brand with pretty lowend smartphones but tbh I can't see much future for it as a phone brand even if Sony take it
Posted by goldenface
On 2011-11-08 17:17:48, koss wrote:
On 2011-11-08 15:57:04, DACHA wrote:
Based on PhoneArena the HTC Amaze 4g has a better camera than the iPhone4s. About 4 months ago HTC changed the camera modules they use and it gave them a huge improvement in picture quality.
I would say that a lot of people have to high expectations for mobile cameras. There is no way that a cell phone camera is ever going to be as good as a point and shot camera.
Q: WHY DIDN'T INCLUDE XPERIA ARC IN THAT COMPARATION?
A: BECOUSE COMPARED TO THOSE PHONE XPERIA ARC IS A DISASTER IN CAMERA
I'm guessing because the Arc isn't widely available in the US. Why would they include a phone in a review that hardly anyone would have.
Posted by moogoo
so true. sony ericsson isn't really marketed in the US. only the Xperia Play was somewhat marketed but even so, it wasn't on TV or in a ton of ads like other phones. Other than that, the X10 was the only other SE phone that was even displayed at the sony store.
Other than the play, i've never seen an SE commercial on TV. It's just not a huge brand in the states.
Posted by argiriano
On 2011-11-08 17:42:09, DACHA wrote:
When
was using Sony technology like cyber-shot and Walkman in their phones that is where they made the most profits. After 2008 they stopped to make good cyber-shot or Walkman phones and lost a lot of market. Hopefully now that Sony is in charge they will use more of the old proven technologies from Sony in the new Sony phones.
It may well be the other way around - Sony don`t want to make phone which will eat their point and shoot cameras share... just like Play shouldn't be a treat to PSP. Sony doesn't realize that others make big improvements in all departments, 'cause they already know that smartphone market is the most profitable nowadays. Samsung make SGS with no fear of this kind, even though they have camera devices too... they just implement all their best technologies in it and the result - millions sold. Samsung loosing big money in TV too, even though they sold more TV's than Sony, but that doesn`t stop them to use best screen tech in smartphones. Did you see the difference?
HTC strike a deal with Beats Audio, make improvements in camera department too, using latest hardware and develop devices twice as fast as
... ect.
Apple take the same Sony camera sensor and put better lenses in front of it, implement better software and the result is - lighting fast camera with pictures way much better than Arc.
Why
didn`t use:
- Sony OLED screens
- supreme Sony music technologies they have in Walkman products
- Carl Ziess lenses and software they have in Cyber-shot cameras
- cutting edge hardware (I`m sure if they wanted they would have had ST-Ericsson chips first and for less money than any other manufacturer just because Ericsson)
So why?
Politics. No, wrong politics. That`s why.
It will be very sad, when they do realize now that smartphone is the only way to be successful nowadays, and in the same time don`t put every best bit they have in it.
So I hope Sony will came up with some stunning device at the end of 2012 - a real flagship... or they will fail badly. Believe me. So fingers crossed.
Posted by Detox
Once again from unknown13x from XDA:
They're keeping the liquid identity for now. They are not dumping the SE logo for at least half a year before going all Sony. You'll see the new directions in CES I can tell you that.
Hmmm...
Posted by Karun
Last device with the brilliant SE logo? Heck I am interested!