Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-12 19:07:11, motvikt wrote:
On 2011-10-12 18:57:57, goldenface wrote:
Nothing is confirmed yet and timing of this rumour makes me doubt it very much.
+1. On the articles in swedish press alot of people from Ericsson commented saying they havent heard a thing. I imagine at least something would have slipped out by now. They also said Sony is still treating SE like a bastard child but it has gotten better. apperently Sony had a lot of control when Dick was CEO, look how that went
Isn't that what I and a few other members have been saying about Sony holding back SE?
Alright, alright, I admit it! I just can't stay away from this thread.
oops:
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-13 10:49:57, goldenface wrote:
That made me laugh so much Dups!
Yeah, it does look like a Sony Walkman but wouldn't the camera aperture but an unusual feature for a Walkman only device?
Aaah, I didn't think of the camera, good point. In that case, it is more of an SE phone with Sony desing elements.
I would love to see the whole phone. Come on Sony, hand this baby your true walkman hardware cause from that angle it looks like a really high-end walkman phone.
Posted by Ricky D
That Walkman device looks pretty cool but I want a Cybershot. Hope it has a big sister with sexy curves
I think it's obviously a
logo on the big button on top and it isn't a power button, but rather a hard-key to the music player. The styling looks a lot like the MW600 accessory (which shipped with the X1 didn't it?) if it were to be blown up to a handset size..
On 2011-10-12 20:07:47, aurelius wrote:
There are a couple of issues with Sony buying out Ericsson!
Patents - Do you really think Ericsson with all those patents would sell them and having nothing left for themselves? If they sell those mobile patents there's pretty much nothing left. Ericsson stands really strong with these patents and I doubt that they would sell them to Sony and Sony needs those patents to be able to secure their future mobile sales.
This is not the first time I've heard this rumour, it keeps coming back year after year!
Ericsson wouldn't have to sell their mobile patents but rather let Sony license them exclusively and leave the Ericsson name on the handsets (optional).
That way Sony can have the control they want over designs and direction, bringing it closer to the Sony family of products, take the lion share of the profits and give back to Ericsson for patent backup.
I actually don't see much to get in the way of a 'takeover', although it may just be a significant shift in shares with maybe Sony taking 80% and Ericsson 20%.
Posted by Dups!
@Ricky D
I agree with you on the patents, if the 'takeover' happens Sony will license those patents from Ericsson. As for Sony keeping the Ericsson name, I really doubt that. It would make good business sense if they did but knowing Sony they tend to erase all traces of former partners. They are likely to drop the Ericsson name and stick with their own name.
Posted by mustafabay
Does there seem to be a hinge in the back or am I just seeing things?
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-13 12:34:54, mustafabay wrote:
Does there seem to be a hinge in the back or am I just seeing things?
I was wondering about that also, there does seem to be something resembling some sort of a hinge towards the top of the phone.
Posted by razec
The top portion reminds me of W902, as for the lack of human curve on the back of the device, i think that doesn't mean its fake, since we already have Xperia Ray/Active which lacks it.
Posted by goldenface
The hinge thing looks more like an opening such as speaker aperture or other opening.
Posted by Ricky D
Perhaps that 'hinge' is an opening for helping remove the back cover.
Posted by shaoran
a new brand logo maybe...just feel it's a sony's design anyway without ericsson at all...
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-13 14:43:11, shaoran wrote:
a new brand logo maybe...just feel it's a sony's design anyway without ericsson at all...
Hmmm... you may be on to something here. I initially thought it was weird that the name and logos have been cover up but dismissed it.
Clearly this is more of a Sony design than SE as we have stated and maybe this is just Sony and not Sony Ericsson.
Could this be what you were wondering about, goldenface? You wondered if Sony were working on phones in preparation for the takeover, this really is unlike a Sony Ericsson design.
Posted by goldenface
Well when you take into account the time it takes to develop a handset it wouldn't surprise me if Sony have indeed already developed their own prototype Sony mobiles in preparation for any eventual change of ownership - just a thought.
The picture might just have the normal
logo scrubbed out, and further down on the battery cover, it does look like the normal Sony Ericsson logo scrubbed out - you can almost make out the start and end of what looks like 'Sony Ericsson'.[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2011-10-13 14:52 ]
Posted by adsada
On 2011-10-13 15:36:04, goldenface wrote:
Well when you take into account the time it takes to develop a handset it wouldn't surprise me if Sony have indeed already developed their own prototype Sony mobiles in preparation for any eventual change of ownership - just a thought.
The picture might just have the normal
logo scrubbed out, and further down on the battery cover, it does look like the normal Sony Ericsson logo scrubbed out - you can almost make out the start and end of what looks like 'Sony Ericsson'.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2011-10-13 14:52 ]
Eh, sorry am I missing something here? So lets just get this right you think that Sony has taken it apon themselves to develop their own prototypes so that they'll be prepared if they do buy Ericsson out? I can't really see that as sustainable at all, considering the fact that these after all are just talks which have gone on before and could still easily collapse as it has done in the past. Then Sony has wasted it's money developing these phones? Also obviously the speed at which technology changes why would they develop phones for the 'eventual change of ownership'? When these phones if just kept for a couple of years will end up being outdated. Not to mention the fact that if Sony was to be producing these for itself, that would be totally unacceptable in the current joint venture and show a complete lack of commitment to making Sony Ericsson work, which could then be argued that they are to blame for their downfall.
Also if Sony has been planning this for a while, why did they then after many years of discussions realise the Xperia play under Sony Ericsson if they knew in a year that they would buy them out? Surely they would have held off until then?
Posted by Dups!
@adsada
If there is a tentative agreement between the two parties then yes there could be a prototype around.
Let's see, the Ericsson T68i laters became the Sony Ericsson T68i. Then there is the T610i which was going to be an Ericsson phone as but after the agreement between the two parents it became a Sony Ericsson.
I can make examples from Siemens and later BenQSiemens also.
Posted by goldenface
@adsada
Like I said - it was just a thought.
It was written into the original JV agreement that both companies should still able to produce their own mobiles should they wish to do so. Mobile development is an ongoing process, there are endless prototypes being produced which never make it to market.
I would be very surprised if Sony hadn't considered the prospect of a fall out with Ericsson only to find itself not prepared for such an eventuality.
For the sake of development, both companies must have their own mobile R&D departments.
Posted by adsada
On 2011-10-13 17:02:57, Dups! wrote:
@adsada
If there is a tentative agreement between the two parties then yes there could be a prototype around.
Let's see, the Ericsson T68i laters became the Sony Ericsson T68i. Then there is the T610i which was going to be an Ericsson phone as but after the agreement between the two parents it became a Sony Ericsson.
I can make examples from Siemens and later BenQSiemens also.
That's different, in those cases they just rebranded the phone because it was around the time of joining the joint venture. Just now it is implied that Sony has already given up on SE and is producing its own phones for itself for when (if) they do buy Ericsson out. Now if this were to be true as I've said it would be crazy to do so because as much as they want it they cannot be certain Ericsson will allow it, and if talks do fail and they continue the JV then they have just wasted money developing a phone which will not go to market. I just don't think this is a reasonable thought, but we will see.
Posted by Hsiao
http://weibo.com/sebbs
Ray 2. 6-7mm
Posted by motvikt
Ray is probably their new design language.
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-13 17:20:30, adsada wrote:
On 2011-10-13 17:02:57, Dups! wrote:
@adsada
If there is a tentative agreement between the two parties then yes there could be a prototype around.
Let's see, the Ericsson T68i laters became the Sony Ericsson T68i. Then there is the T610i which was going to be an Ericsson phone as but after the agreement between the two parents it became a Sony Ericsson.
I can make examples from Siemens and later BenQSiemens also.
That's different, in those cases they just rebranded the phone because it was around the time of joining the joint venture. Just now it is implied that Sony has already given up on SE and is producing its own phones for itself for when (if) they do buy Ericsson out. Now if this were to be true as I've said it would be crazy to do so because as much as they want it they cannot be certain Ericsson will allow it, and if talks do fail and they continue the JV then they have just wasted money developing a phone which will not go to market. I just don't think this is a reasonable thought, but we will see.
No, what I am saying is that if Ericsson has agreed to sell its stake to Sony, certainly the rumours suggest that that is the case and the sticking point is the price or value of the stake, then Sony can go ahead and make their prototype(s) in anticipation of the deal being signed. It is not to suggest that they have no faith in SE but to prepare for continuity.
I guess time will tell, so let's see what happens.
[ This Message was edited by: Dups! on 2011-10-13 17:10 ]
Posted by Dups!
Now they are pushing it! 6-7mm is breakage point and I don't want a phone that thin.
But then, the W880i was very thin and well built, hopefully this is built similarly to the W88i by using metal and plastic accents.
Posted by goldenface
That is not just thin, it's emaciated. If the current rumours are to be believed 2012 is shaping up to be quite interesting already.
6-7mm sounds impossibly thin - look at how thin a 3.5mm jack is.
Posted by jack00
On 2011-10-13 01:59:05, FMW300i wrote:
I know spy pics never do justice to the actual phone, but whatever that is, it looks very un-SE. Too block-ish and not following
design.
T610 T650 K600 ...
i really really hope that they are finally introducing some swedish design again
Posted by FMW300
Though it looks nothing like
design, I'm all for new/different styling, as I think the 2 designs recycled over and over for 2011 was starting to get a little boring: Arc/Neo/Pro/Play & Ray/Mini/Mini Pro/Live/Mix/Txt. [Active looks like Samsung or LG designed it.]
Anyway, I'm sure this 'W23' will look great in official pics....
Posted by Ricky D
At 6-7mm I'd bet the casing would be sealed with fixed battery and possibly fixed memory to save space and enable the thing to exist. Battery covers, battery connectors/casing are space wasters. SE with or without Ericsson should move this way sooner rather than later.
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-14 02:20:29, FMW300i wrote:
Though it looks nothing like
design, I'm all for new/different styling, as I think the 2 designs recycled over and over for 2011 was starting to get a little boring: Arc/Neo/Pro/Play & Ray/Mini/Mini Pro/Live/Mix/Txt. [Active looks like Samsung or LG designed it.]
Anyway, I'm sure this 'W23' will look great in official pics....
Once again, I agree with you! As great looking as the 2011 portfolio is it was starting to get really tired. They need a refresh and a new design language that will stand out from the 2011 portfolio. In fact, the design language of this year is a carry over from the 2010 one, the arc is an X10 given a make over.
[ This Message was edited by: Dups! on 2011-10-14 06:38 ]
Posted by lolstebbo
On 2011-10-14 07:36:24, Dups! wrote:
Once again, I agree with you! As great looking as the 2011 portfolio is it was starting to get really tired. They need a refresh and a new design language that will stand out from the 2011 portfolio. In fact, the design language of this year is a carry over from the 2010 one, the arc is an X10 given a make over.
[ This Message was edited by: Dups! on 2011-10-14 06:38 ]
Well, no, they had two design languages this year; the H1 phones were evolved from the X10 while the H2 phones had a new language. Honestly, I think it works out fine for SE if they do it this way, especially since, this year and last year, the H1 phones were large size and the H2 phones were basically shrunken versions of the H1 phone(s). So then we'd get shrunken packaging between H1 and H2 and then refined styling between H2 and the next H1.
Posted by Dups!
Actually, you are right! There are two design languages for this year.
I like the Ray's style better along with the minis. I would love to see something completely different for next year though.
Posted by c96sthl
On 2011-10-13 18:46:35, goldenface wrote:
That is not just thin, it's emaciated. If the current rumours are to be believed 2012 is shaping up to be quite interesting already.
6-7mm sounds impossibly thin - look at how thin a 3.5mm jack is.
maybe its time to drop 3.5mm audio jack and bundle every phone with a stereo BT headset for free.
of course it is still possible to put a 3.5mm in. let see how it goes.
Posted by aurelius
Q3 Result:
31 million Euro profit before tax (Expected 22 million euro)
9,5 million phnes were sold (down 9%)
Higher profit per unit 166 Euro instead of 156 Euro
Norberg also said that they've shipped 22 million smartphones wich would be approx
12% av all Android phones activated. (Google said 190 million Android phones has been activated)
Posted by NightBlade
Yay, they made a profit!
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-14 10:10:11, NightBlade wrote:
Yay, they made a profit!
Not really.
I guess any improvement compared to the last report is good. Not bad.
On to the next two quarters, I hope they do make a profit by then.
I
f they managed to move from 7.6 million phones to 9.5 million I suppose they can easily get to 12 million by the next quarter.
I am glad there is positive movement forward instead of going backwards.
[ This Message was edited by: Dups! on 2011-10-14 09:24 ]
Posted by stais
On 2011-10-14 10:18:21, Dups! wrote:
Not really.
I guess any improvement compared to the last report is good. Not bad.
On to the next two quarters, I hope they do make a profit by then.
I
f they managed to move from 7.6 million phones to 9.5 million I suppose they can easily get to 12 million by the next quarter.
I am glad there is positive movement forward instead of going backwards.
[ This Message was edited by: Dups! on 2011-10-14 09:24 ]
Yeah, that's a 25% increase in number of shipped units from Q2. Several phones were also not availible for most of Q3 so Q4 numbers are really going to be interesting (hehe, don't we say that every quarter?). Now I'm just hoping for an ICS announcement sometime shortly after the Google/Samsung event next Wednesday.
Posted by motvikt
Well hopefully we can put the split rumors to rest now when the report is out. Analysts thought they would announce it today together with the report.
Safe for now
Posted by adsada
"Bert Nordberg (president and CEO of Sony Ericsson) said that they will
be shifting their entire portfolio towards smartphones in 2012. He didn’ t specify an
OS"
sounds to me like a company with a plan, not one that is about to part ways...
still hopeful this it's just a meaningless rumour
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-14 12:25:17, adsada wrote:
"Bert Nordberg (president and CEO of Sony Ericsson) said that they will
be shifting their entire portfolio towards smartphones in 2012. He didn’ t specify an
OS"
sounds to me like a company with a plan, not one that is about to part ways...
still hopeful this it's just a meaningless rumour
Now, I am not saying that the statement means that Ericsson is selling its stake to Sony or not but you don't jump the gun and pronounce to the world anything about ongoing negotiations. Clearly, they had no intention to discuss the rumour which may mean anything at this stage. Maybe there is a rumour and maybe there isn't but my concern is that if there wasn't one they would've come out and said unequivocally that there is no truth to the rumour of a Sony buyout.
Saying that they are shifting to smartphones only as from next year could also mean that the strategy from Sony Mobile (after the buyout) is to concentrate strictly on smartphones. Remember, Bert has inside info and he did even say, late last year, that SE will be moving closer to Sony this year and they did with a lot of Sony-centric phones.
Why aren't they addressing the rumour if it is not true? I know I would want to allay my employees' fears as well as the involved stakeholders not forgetting that this creates a lot of confusion to consumers. Something is brewing here.
Posted by adsada
Yeah I agree that's a fair point, on the other hand it seems strange that it has been over a week and nothing has slipped yet since the first tip off was made (nothing was even mentioned at the Q3 results) and like others have said many people within Ericsson haven't heard anything.
I'm merely trying to take something and take the positives out of it
obviously this has been their plan for a while now (the eventual shift to smartphones) I just really don't want the brand to disappear.
Posted by Dups!
I understand what you are saying. I would also love for SE to stick around, I love the brand and they have been doing most of the right things since last year.
Hopefully they will clarify this sooner rather than later.
Posted by motvikt
One analyst pointed out, can Sony even afford to buy SE now? Around 1billion euro is pretty much for a company with no profit.
I hope Sony just thinks its cheaper to leave it as it is and invest more time in it instead.
[ This Message was edited by: motvikt on 2011-10-14 13:34 ]
Posted by Ricky D
I think whether the rumour is true or not SE don't have to address it as an issue. They aren't on the stock market and don't have shareholders to maintain so the danger there is non-existent. They should consider the handset buyers response to such news, but let's face it, there aren't that many in the general public who know, care or have heard about the possibility (we in the forums are the informed ones). I bet if you questioned 100 people in a mobile phone shop today, 5/100 might have heard the rumour and maybe 1 will care. So they can ignore the rumour completely.
Sony on the other hand might want to consider making a statement as it's emerged their shares are falling from the 'news' of a proposed buyout. Their representatives in Japan and London are actively declining to comment on the matter. This could be that it is a complete rumour and they haven't decided how to play the media or it could be a smoking gun.
Sony can afford to buy Ericsson. They're royalty in Japan and even their government will lend them money if they really need to. The question is, is it wise for Sony to do it. It will place financial burden on them and may restrict other parts of their company, but bringing all of the r&d in-house and spreading marketing costs a little thinner from other departments instead of pumping money into a flailing SE might pay for itself, in savings and a unified range of products and solutions.
I think the value of the purchase will decide whether it goes through or not (the same as with any deal anywhere in the world). If Sony value the next 5 year potential handset/tablet market as more than the touted €1.25bn then we have a goer.
Personally I can see in 5-10 years that everyone under the age of 45 will access the internet and communicate almost totally through a mobile device of some description (tablet or smartphone), only using PCs for/at work, more than that they will use that device to stream youtube or movies from the internet to the tv and use it to power their TV as computers. If Sony can get even 10% of that global market then €1.25bn is a steal.
Posted by S4k1s
On 2011-10-14 15:57:49, Ricky D wrote:
[text...]
Sony can afford to buy Ericsson.
[text...]
You mean buy out
right?
Posted by FMW300
On 2011-10-14 10:18:21, Dups! wrote:
I guess any improvement compared to the last report is good. Not bad.
On to the next two quarters, I hope they do make a profit by then.
If they managed to move from 7.6 million phones to 9.5 million I suppose they can easily get to 12 million by the next quarter.
I am glad there is positive movement forward instead of going backwards.
I really hope so too, plus positive growth in units shipped for subsequent quarters gives me hope! I think the numbers WILL go up for Q4 as the entire portfolio is shipping now: Live & Active were the last 2 I believe.
Aren't handsets that pass thru the FCC new handsets? What is Sony Ericsson A3880133? Wouldn't they have listed the known name if it was an announced model?
Posted by razec
While the news of the buyout really bothers me as a fan/user, i think we should discuss the topic on its proper thread, we're getting Off-topic already if you guys won't mind me telling
Posted by Ricky D
On 2011-10-14 18:37:23, S4k1s wrote:
You mean buy out
right?
Yes, sorry, typo.
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-15 04:12:10, razec wrote:
While the news of the buyout really bothers me as a fan/user, i think we should discuss the topic on its proper thread, we're getting Off-topic already if you guys won't mind me telling
I agree!
I find it interesting that this Nozomi is capable of hiding her face so well, shouldn't we have a leak by now? Since I have had a change of mind about SE and Sony Mobile, I am looking at it as a potential buy. I hope SE goes for a 4.5'' screen with this thing.
Where is rog when you need him?
Posted by motvikt
On 2011-10-15 14:58:14, Dups! wrote:
On 2011-10-15 04:12:10, razec wrote:
While the news of the buyout really bothers me as a fan/user, i think we should discuss the topic on its proper thread, we're getting Off-topic already if you guys won't mind me telling
I agree!
I find it interesting that this Nozomi is capable of hiding her face so well, shouldn't we have a leak by now? Since I have had a change of mind about SE and Sony Mobile, I am looking at it as a potential buy. I hope SE goes for a 4.5'' screen with this thing.
Where is rog when you need him?
Where is Eldar when you need him
Last year he had a preview of arc in November or something
Posted by adsada
Don't know if SE can really stop leaks, but could the fact that they now have the arc s be the reason of no leak? They want to sell this during Q4 of this year as a superfast and powerful phone, if a rumour of a dual core SE phone is coming soon then it could potentially put people off buying the arc s. So maybe they are actually trying to prevent leaks and keep a tight wrap on things. Though lets all remember the play and how pathetically leaked that was
doubt SE could be bothered trying to stop leaks 
Posted by Ricky D
Arc S is selling at ~£350. There is no way that they mean Arc S to be the allstar for a great period of time (if any). It is merely a way to offload some old component stock and extend the shelf life of Arc as it hadn't sold as many units as they'd thought it might.
What we should be considering is whether releasing a superphone this quarter will kill or be kiled by any potential WMC announcement/release. To get any life out of something like that they'd have to have released last week and again at the end of 2012Q1 so as to get a full 6 months as the flagship, or if they're trying to pass off Play and Arc as joint flagship models/something special maybe they could replace one of them this quarter and the other next quarter.
Personally I don't see anything till (probably late) Q1 next year. I hope I'm wrong and they release 10 superphones each with the same (ground-breaking) specs but in 10 fantastic previously unimagined designs, all at 1/10th the price of the prospective Galaxy Prime and all before my birthday next month, but it's not going to happen.
Posted by Dups!
On 2011-10-16 04:18:18, Ricky D wrote:
... To get any life out of something like that they'd have to have released last week and again at the end of 2012Q1 so as to get a full 6 months as the flagship, ...
I don't get this part. I am getting a strange message of releasing a one phone twice.
Anyway, I have said it before that SE has a very wrong strategy. Let's see what happens next year. I believe they should have a flagship in Q1 and a decently refreshed second flagship in Q4. You could say they tried it with the arcS but didn't quite pull it off cause there just isn't anything to write home about when it comes to the arcS.
The problem comes in when you factor in the competition, SE's flagship simply falls short in almost every department.
I hope Bert was having a moment when he said that they will not push untested hardware because they are not guaranteed to sell. That statement will come back to bite him if that is how they are going to carry on.
(The) Nozomi is supposedly running a 1.5Ghz, dual-core processor, depending on what the competition will offer in Q4 [and I suspect we will see quad-core processors in phones] they'd have to upgrade (the) Nozomi 2 with a quad-core processor to make any inroads and make a bit of profit.
Yes, I agree that quad-core in phones is overkill but people are buying highly specced phones in droves cause they want the feeling of a 'future-proof phone' and having something that is better than the next. SE are underestimating the mindset of today's consumer and that is not good.
I know they've been hit hard by their past actions but this mentality that Bert has is bad, bad, bad. It's funny that they took gambles in the past with the likes of the P800i, W800i and the K800i and the results of those gambles paid off handsomely.
[ This Message was edited by: Dups! on 2011-10-16 09:52 ]
Posted by Ricky D
On 2011-10-16 10:45:56, Dups! wrote:
On 2011-10-16 04:18:18, Ricky D wrote:
... To get any life out of something like that they'd have to have released last week and again at the end of 2012Q1 so as to get a full 6 months as the flagship, ...
I don't get this part. I am getting a strange message of releasing a one phone twice.
I guess what I meant was if they're going to release a hard hitter now and another one in Q1, they should have released the first two weeks ago and the second at the end of Q1. This way the first would get a good run in before being killed off by the second.
Posted by wario
they'd have to upgrade (the) Nozomi 2 with a quad-core processor to make any inroads and make a bit of profit.
or they could keep it dual-core and use the 28nm snapdragon S4 for a Q4 refresh. other manufacturers however, will probably have phones with this chipset around the first half of 2012.
but yeah, they gotta switch up their business strategy in the cell phone industry. what they're doing now won't be successful long term. you just can't compete at the high-end with hardware that's a generation behind. but that's what the sony takeover of SE is for right?
[ This Message was edited by: wario on 2011-10-16 11:36 ]