Nokia reaffirms commitment to Symbian platform

Posted by tranced
As Symbian Foundation announces changes, a new era of Symbian development and innovation begins

Espoo, Finland - Following an announcement by the board of the Symbian Foundation that it will be transitioning from its current operational activities to become a licensing operation only, Nokia today reaffirmed its commitment to the Symbian platform. Nokia plans to continue to invest its own resources in developing Symbian, the world's most widely used smartphone platform, and expects to deliver a strong portfolio of Symbian-based smartphones to people around the world.

"The future of Symbian as a platform does not depend on the existence of the foundation," said Jo Harlow, Senior Vice President, Smartphones, Nokia. "The changes announced by the foundation have no impact on Nokia's Symbian device roadmaps or shipping commitments. The platform powers hundreds of millions of smartphones - including our own - and we expect to deliver ongoing support and innovation benefitting the Symbian ecosystem in the future."

Nokia's recent decision to focus on Qt as its sole application development framework is expected to bring greater efficiency and speed of evolution to the Symbian platform. This approach is aimed at ensuring compatibility for apps with future Symbian platform versions, and enables more frequent updates and upgrades for Nokia smartphones. To take advantage of this ever-growing opportunity, developers can find the tools and support they need through Forum Nokia, and global distribution to Nokia's broad base of smartphones through Ovi Store.

Nokia is the volume market leader in smartphones and the company's commitment to the Symbian platform is unchanged. Nokia smartphones based on the new Symbian platform include the Nokia N8, Nokia C7 and the new Nokia C6-01 which are available now, as well as the upcoming Nokia E7 which is expected to ship before the end of 2010. Nokia expects to sell more than 50 million Symbian^3-based devices.

Nokia at Symbian Exchange and Exposition 2010
Nokia will exhibit and demonstrate its portfolio of Symbian-based smartphones at the annual Symbian Exchange and Exposition (SEE) 2010 event in Amsterdam, Netherlands November 9-10. Nokia's Jo Harlow will deliver a keynote address on Tuesday, November 9 at approximately 10:15am CET. For more information on the event, which is hosted for the Symbian community and free to attend, visit http://www.see2010.org/.

Press

[ This Message was edited by: tranced on 2010-11-08 20:20 ]

Posted by Bonovox
From reading recent reviews I get the impression Symbian is still not quite there yet with with Symbian^3. Why can't they dip their toes into Android everyone else is. If they don't improve it further it surely won't be top by next year it will be Android

Posted by etaab
Android's current market percentage is tiny compared to Symbian.

I doubt this time next year Android will have taken much more ground from Symbian. In fact, since more phones are likely to come preinstalled with Symbian, its more likely Android will lose more market percentage rather than gain.

Nokia can churn out quality Symbian handsets at an impressive rate.

Posted by Bonovox
Yes they churn them out fast

Posted by Tsepz_GP

are you sure of that Etaab? Considering how much growth Android has made in just 2010? Highly doubt it will lose any share,if it does it will be due to iOS OR WP7, even networks are making their own Android phones now, not to mention all the manufacturers, we are talking HTC, SAMSUNG, Motorola, LG, SE, DELL, ACER, etc... vs. Nokia, lets get real here.

[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2010-11-09 13:06 ]

Posted by tranced
It's clearly seen that Nokia won't jump into the Android wagon. Yet we have much more to see what S^3 will bring to us. The S^3 is a young version of this old OS.

I suppose that their new phones will offer a lot more than what they're offering right now(N8 and E7).

Posted by idumbakumar
as single company cannot keep the symbian top on the market for long time. There's no point in comparing the shares. Just look at the growth rate between symbian and android. Also symbian surviving for ages without any much ground breaking improvements.

Posted by false_morel
2011 will be Symbian's year..

Nokia are investing big in this and getting it all right so far..

Pure QT all the way.. Ovi Store getting more attention than ever.. Very good marketing so far..

And yes, if Nokia is to hold their one third of the smartphone market share and add to it the East Asian market dominance, Symbian will stay top!
No need for Motorolla, SE, or Samsung!

But it's not the market share what matters at teh moment actually.. Both Android and Symbian are the leaders now.. Neither of them would vanish nor dominate! At least for the coming two years..

The real battle/tough choice is to determine which OS is technically better!
Right now, Android has the better UI and more support, Symbian the better and more developed with superior functions.

In case the coming upgrades early 2011 make Symbian at least par with Android concerning the UI's functionality, then it will be a clear winner..

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-08 23:30:11, Bonovox wrote:
From reading recent reviews I get the impression Symbian is still not quite there yet with with Symbian^3. Why can't they dip their toes into Android everyone else is.

First of all, Nokia have the Ovi Store they hugely invested in and still doing so!
This alone should make rule Android out.

Another thing, those poor reviews you're coming across are more concerned to deliver what the public wants to know rather than what it needs to! Otherwise, they'd end up with some poor audience..

No one dares to go agaisnt the flow!

It's a fact that Symbian is more efficient, and more capable than Android at the moment..
But who dares to mention it..
Everyone just mentions the flashy UI and the 100k apps at the Android Market compared to the dated UI of Symbian.
Because simply this is what satisfies the public to read!
More than 90% wouldn't care less about knwoing what's running beneath that UI or what different functions does each OS offer..
They just want to listen and read what they're getting in the media again and again..

As stupid as it sounds, it's the reality..

Posted by Tsepz_GP
If Symbian is so much more functional and effecient then Nokia should make that part of their mdrketing campaign and highlight exactly what these superior functions in Symbian are as nobody seems to be able to.
Going against the flow is exactly what got the iPhone where it is now.

Posted by etaab

On 2010-11-09 00:18:53, Tsepz_GP wrote:

are you sure of that Etaab?..

etc... vs. Nokia, lets get real here.

You see, you are clearly missing the obvious. What false_morel said is all very true, Symbian has a much brighter future ahead of it at the moment. But think of it in basic terms.

Nokia are by far the worlds most popular mobile phone manufacturer. They make more mobile phones than anyone else. Nokia are very good at flooding the market with many different handsets all running the same none-smartphone interface or Symbian. You're forgetting Nokia is also a brand name and a name known for making good quality handsets.

Now compare Nokia to the companies you mentioned. SE - myself along with many other Esato forum members and people i talk to in the street would never buy a SE phone again. Motorola - always poor in quality with terrible hardware imo. Acer & Dell - they're not the first name you think of when buying a mobile phone. HTC - nice specs, but poor quality hardware much of the time especially the cameras. Lastly, Samsung & LG, again the same story, LG is only popular in some markets, whilst Samsung is popular but limited by their own silly input with Android with Touchwhiz. People who buy Samsung or LG phones tend not to care about the OS.

So basically you've got a whole bunch of good, average, or pretty mediocre mobile phone manufacturers all supporting Android which also carry a high pricetag. Anyone who likes a good quality phone with a high spec camera or other killer hardware features dont really have much choice. Thats why they end up sticking with Nokia just like me. Nokia have every corner of the market covered from budget phones to top spec flagships. Which other Android manufacturer can do that ?

[ This Message was edited by: etaab on 2010-11-09 22:44 ]

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Lol, you're missing an important point, Symbian has been losing share, so has Nokia in places like India where the Chinese handsets are beginning to flood the low end market, if im not mistaken India is their biggest market,no?
Samsung and HTC have made major growth,guess it was convenient for you to just ignore that. Samsung are catching up to Nokia rapidly, and if im not mistaken Android has what? 25% marketshare whilest Symbian has 33% as of Q3, Android managed to growth of 1309% in just 2years, lets not forget Samsung and HTC have huge amounts of network support in the USA who are one of if not the largest smartphone market.
Htc Desire, Galaxy-S, X10, X10mini and Htc Wildfire managed to be the in the top10 most popular in the UK smartphones as well, with only the lowly Nokia X6 16gb being the only Symbian. Android is going to continue to eat away at Symbians share, you are only fooling yourself by denying that. Despite Nokia churning out supercheap S60s like the 5530, 5230, 5800, X6 8gb, 532 xm, 5630xm, E63 etc...they continue to lose share in smartphones to the more expensive Androids, seems people are prepared to pay a little extra to get a great UI, app support, excellent browsing experience etc... Pushing out multiple cheap handsets is clearly not helping Nokia much as they have already been doing it for the past 2years.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Symbian went from 38% or so in Q3 '09 to 33% '10 despite a flood of cheap S60s, and heres an interesting article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/01/canalys_smartphone_stats/ Android is the one with a bright future here, even the US Military are now using it: http://www.androidguys.com/20[....]l-forces-android-killer-combo/ and its now becoming popular with educational institutes to: http://www.androidguys.com/20[....]d-releases-native-android-app/ this is mainly in the US for now, but as we've seen with other apps it all soon spreads to other regions. Symbian has been around for over 5years and yet nothing like this is happening to it despite being the dominate OS,the fact that many who own Symbians dont even know the own a "smart"phone doesnt help it much either.

Posted by etaab
You're clearly very loyal to Android so again i wont start a massive debate about it. Im not fooling myself, i simply look at every OS out there and not reserve my good opinions for only one and discredit the rest.

All im prepared to say is the future is pretty exciting for people like me who're into mobile phones to an almost geek level. Im looking forward to next years releases. Im still hoping Apple sort out the iPhone 5 so its actually a usable smartphone.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Exactly the type of reply i was expecting from someone who cant swallow the facts, so you turn around accuse me of being loyal to Android

Excuse me for being realistic and having the back-up.
I'm looking forward to what's coming in all platforms, paticularly WebOS as that remains the one OS i think would take off if it just had the right type of marketing and devices to run on.
By the way etaab,this seems to be your general way of dealing with people here once the arguement is not going your way, you then claim to love all OS and accuse the other of being loyal or a fanboy.

On 2010-11-08 23:44:53, etaab wrote:
Android's current market percentage is tiny compared to Symbian.

Err..no: http://www.androidguys.com/20[....]sing-symbian-world-domination/ Android went from being 41% behind Symbian in Q3 2009 to being just 11% behind Symbian in Q3 2010, that's quite a leap considering Nokia in that space of time flooded the market with cheap S60s like the 5230/5233, 5800-NavEdition, N97-Mini, all the X6 variants, E5, C6 etc... yet despite all that, Androids, which sell at higher price points and are still not as widely available as S60s still managed to make a 30% leap, and Symbian dropped by 8% in this same space of time, like i said, let's get real here.

[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2010-11-11 22:55 ]

Posted by false_morel
Tsepz_GP,

you probably can't discuss teh two operating systems on the technical level, as you totally ignored this aspect, so lets leave this out at the moment..
Symbian is awaiting some major upgrades starting January next year that could shuffle the whole comparison up anyway..

As to the numbers you're basing you're relying on, only one Symbian^3 phone was released at teh end of Q3, others to follow starting Q4!
S60 Fifth Edition (latest Symbian version before the Symbian^3) based phones were first released two years ago by now!! First was 5800 XpressMusic released on November 27, 2008, while in 2010 only two phones were released: Vivaz and the C6-00! Despite that, Symbian held its spot firmly.

Now, consider the fresh start with Symbian^3, and the new phones flooding as of Q1 2011 and we shall compare those numbers then..

But even before that, just one quarter to go, and we'll have the total numbers for 2010. The year labeled as Android's year and the year Symbian dies in!
We shall see where those two would end up at the end of this transitional year..

Posted by snoFlake
Sooo what are these new "Symbian"(Artist formerly known as S^3/S^4)" devices that will be flooding the market other than the C6-01, C7, E7, and probable X.x something. There's nobody other than Nokia releasing devices on Symbian (for a good reason) and arguably with the advent of the new Nokia paradigm actually Symbian as a meaningful OS at a user level no longer exists.

There are no devices other than the ARM11 exS^3 devices to come in the next few months and Nokia are stuck trying to patch up the UI until...... or they get a Meego device out (eventually) meanwhile Honeycomb is out..............

Posted by Tsepz_GP
False morel
Tell me this, does the technical aspect REALY matter to the consumer? You can go on about it as much as you want, but is it realy what the average joe (who are the millions buying these) realy care?
All that talk of the updates is pretty much like the man sitting bedside telling his wife what he's going to do aka all talk, Android is making moves RIGHT NOW, there are a bunch of models e.g. the DesireHD, Galaxy-S replacement, the next Nexus, Motorola Droid 2, HTC G2 etc... all flooding the market, RIGHT NOW, updates coming in RIGHT NOW, Gingerbread is right around the corner etc...its not like Android is just sitting around, in the time its taking the Symbian^3 updates to come , Android will have ALREADY made major updates to an already excellent UI.
Vivaz and C6 werent the only ones released in 2010, the 5233, E5, C5, X6-8GB, X6-16GB, E73 for USA, 6700slide, Vivaz, Vivaz Pro etc... now between Q3 2009 and Q3 2010 (which is what the figures are based on!) There are even more on top of that such as the X6-32gb, 5230, E72, 5800-Navigation Edition etc... ALL were and are much cheaper/less expensive than some of the best selling Androids such as the Galaxy-S which has ALREADY managed 3million units JUST IN THE USA , now consider the many more mid-end Androids coming in now.

i respect your optimisim guys but Android is quickly catching up no matter which way you try to twist it.

[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2010-11-12 01:16 ]

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-12 01:48:38, snoFlake wrote:
Sooo what are these new "Symbian"(Artist formerly known as S^3/S^4)" devices that will be flooding the market other than the C6-01, C7, E7,

Those three are supposed to be released soon in this quarter.. There are two models still running on older versions of Symbian to be released as well! I'm not sure about that though..
Now, as for the next year, starting Q1, Nokia claimed they'll flood the market with all new Symbian phones and not me claiming..
Anyway, if so, those would be announced soon.. But Q1 is three months you know, it's not that up from 01.01 some four more new models will be released..

------------------------------

@ Tsepz_GP

I'm not twisting nor denying facts here!
I already said that both Android and Symbian are the leading OSs right now, and both have the potential to top the competition.
Now the ones saying Symbian is dying or vanishing, and only the ignorant still picking Symbian phones or give similar exaggerated claims are the ones twisting some facts..
At the mean time, I'd pick a Symbian phone from Nokia over an Android any time.. And I'm sure there are many who know about this stuff who would do or doing the same!

There's nothing to discuss really.. Numbers are clear enough.. All factors and aspects are very well recognized..
Let's see how things would uncover in the coming months..

[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2010-11-12 03:33 ]

Posted by mlife
you know what cracks me up about all this..... how much credit you all give the average consumer. The problem here in the US (IMO) is that 90% of consumers are SHEEP! We on this forum live, sleep, dream and wake up to cell phones and electronics so the finite details matter to us.... Not so much to the average consumer.

I work in wireless retail here in the U.S. and can't tell you how many times someone comes in to buy a phone that their "friend has" and could care less about my telling them ANYTHING about that or any other device.... they simply want whats "cool"..... not to mention how many people come in and say "I want a droid".... its mind boggling to them when they hear more than just one company/wireless carrier makes "droids".... they TRULY have NO IDEA that "droid" is simply short for Android.

Lets take that one step further... can you image trying to explain Nokia/Symbian to a customer like I have just described... GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

As people get more educated and the gap in number of applications available for the big three (Apple OS, Android and Symbian) shrink you will only have the hardware to compare.... and me personally, Ill put my N8 up against ANY phone on the market today in that respect.

Just my .02

Posted by Tsepz_GP
snoflake
+1, exactly.
False morel
Sure thing

, i didnt say symbian's dead or vanishing, as long as Nokia keep throwing it into cheap ARM11 based phones it will certainly be around, in the same way "dumb"phones are. We will indeed see what happens, but i think the writing is already on the wall.
mlife
Well even in hardware the Androids are ahead, except the camera, the droids are the ones with 1GHz CPUs, over 300mb RAM, huge high-resolution displays, some are now coming in with HDMI, etc... So even in that department Androids have an advantage mixed with great software, with Symbians you have the N8's camera, HDMI port and then? All the other S^3s have fixed focus cameras, low res displays, ARM11 CPUs etc... Hardware is one of the main things i looked at when deciding between getting an X10 or waiting for a N8, im not realy that into photography and with just that in mind i picked the X10 as i would gain more with its hardware and software mix.

Posted by false_morel
Tsepz_GP,

first of all, I don't have to count all low-end Android phones already in the market, from all manufacturers except Google as they only released the Nexus1..

Actually, the low-end Androids outnumber the high-end ones!

Now, as to hardware comparison, and high-tech innovations, check this from allaboutsymbian, and I may dare to ask you again to highlight Android's phone superiority over the N8 hardware-wise!!

Some hints:
- We all know 3.5" screens and the Symbian's native resolution are more than enough.
Surfing the net isn't and shouldn't be teh primary function of Multi-media all-rounder smartphone!
You could purshase a tablet or netbook for that you know..

- With those tiny processor and memory specs you're referring to as, the N8 is more capable of achieving things than those 1Ghz processors and 512 memory equipped Androids!

- As to camera, Androids at the current approach, of adopting slim sizes and all battery-demanding hardware, there's no mean to install a high-end camera on any of these devices.
I could elaborate on this if you want...
But it seems Nokia are all alone innovating in this department from now on! The N8's camera is a category of its own, and most probably will stay that way. Only Nokia going all the way in this department, and they declared that some time ago.

Samsung and SE took some major blows by their feature cameraphones and aren't planning to produce any further models!
So it seems that Nokia not only alone in the smart-camera-phone department, but also alone in the cameraphone department in general..

As I mentoined on other forum, it was a very good experience with SE so far, even with the Satio. And there was time I didn't even think of this coming, but here I am, going all Nokia it seems as there are no other option out there for time being!

Posted by mlife
@Tsepz_GP

I'm curious which of these phones YOU have actually used/owned... becasue you are speaking of numbers and spec's like they are the end-all-be-all.... I own an N8(Unlocked), Captivate (AT&T), Fascinate(Verizon) and my girlfriend has the HTC EVO 4G .... and to be honest (number of apps aside) my N8 is just as fast and in some cases FASTER than any of those phones.... NOT bench tests or stats.... ACTUALLY USING the phone...

One good example, I have a copy of the movie "Avatar" on my phone (a 1.5GB file) and if at the start of the movie, you "jump" toward the end of the movie, my Samsungs and the HTC take at least 2seconds and in some cases 3 or 4 to start playing again... the N8 acts as if you simply took it off pause, no delay.

Another is sending images... If I send full rez images via email (now keep in mind this is 12mp vs 5mp) when I attach the files my android devices take almost TWICE as long to insert files (when you select 2 or more photos) than the Nokia.

Im just sayin'

..... oh, here is quick proof that I actually own those phones so I don't sound like a "fanboy"

I turned the screens on for proof the image was just shot.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
False morel
WRT your comment on internet, yes well i come back and say why buy the N8 for the camera? You can get a DSLR ya know

The hardware in the N8 is great, but some of it has drawbacks e.g. USB-OTG which is slow when dealing with HDDs, requires to always carry the adapter (it gets worse for C7, E7 and C6-01 as they dont even come with the adapter in box),and it doesnt work with other phones other than Nokias. Its a great feature,but not very well implemented.
HDMI, thats already on Androids e.g. Motorola XT720.
Pentaband- This is an innovation, no doubt, but it doesnt even seem to be part of Nokia's marketing campaign, people wont know about it until its too late, kinda like the Accelerometer in the N95 which was discovered only after the iPhone had used it to its full advantage.
Screen tech, according to iFixit i think it was, the guys who took apart the N8, and Eldar of M-R, the N8 and C7's AMOLED, and the CB-AMOLED in C6-01 and E7 are done by Samsung, and arent.as good as S-AMOLEDs that are in some Androids.
So the hardware is good but when you look into it not all that well implmented or the best, except for Pentaband.

WRT 1GHz CPUs and 512mb RAM, NO. Im already reading reports of the N8 closing apps due to low RAM, as said at AllAboutSymbian, the core apps are fine with 256mb RAM as they are well optimized for it, but 3rd party apps dont follow the same rules, Opera Mobile, Gravity, SPB Shell etc... which require a lot of resources once you use them extensively do eat up the RAM and CPU cycles of the ARM11, which does seem to show its age even when using built-in S60 browser where many have had to turn off JavaScript just to get a half decent browsing experience.
There are other areas that seem to get affected e.g. viewing large PDFs, large emails etc...where the ol' ARM11 shows its age, Androids tend to be very fast and fluid at such things, anyway android works very differently in terms of task management and so manages better than symbian in running multiple heavy tasks.

Dont know how we managed to go so offtopic to hardware etc... Apologies, as I said, Android is growing at a rapid rateand will continue to eat away at Symbians share,we can discuss all the technicality in each system til we're blue in the face, but it really doesn't seem to matter to the many leaving Symbian for Android and other OS.

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Mlife
I briefly got to use a promoter's N8 two days ago, didnt take a pic of it or with it as i was mainly interested in things such as: Web browsing, Music, handling documents, emails, multitasking and gaming, i was left not so impressed. Music player was the only part that totaly blew me away as it runs at 60fps like the player in 5800 v51, very smooth and fast, made Mediascape seem to take forever on my X10, overall though i wastjust felt disappointed, made me glad i didnt wait, but made me wonder what on earth Nokia had been doing all this time. The t9 keypad was worse than it was in S60v5, did they actualy test it? Was just not good. Great hardware, excellent build quality, but poor softwarewise, IMO.

Posted by false_morel
Tsepz,

I gave you a link with a summary of some of Nokia's high-tech features and implementations, most of them firsts on an high-end smartphone, and you replied by going through some of them high-lighting the downsides of each and ignoring the major functoinaliy and benefits of those features!
You also somehow ignored mentioning half of those features..

It's easy, no other high-end phone is equipped as the N8 is! No analysis is required for that conclusion.
The N8 isn't perfect, and isn't the ultimate phone as it misses some things. However, at the moment it's the best package. And no phone actually could labeled as ultimate, and none will!

As to your analogy with the camera and net surfing, you missed the fact that the camera isn't the primary function of the N8! It's not a feature phone. It does other things as much as good, including some firsts! And surfing is good enough as well.
However, Androids are concentrating on one thing only, huge screens and net surfing. This is the difference.
Besides, having a multi-media all-rounder phone nowadays, for them to include a decent camera is must!

Heck, the Galaxy S doesn't even have a flash at all! And btw, it's the only Android with Super AMOLED, not as you hinted.

No need to discredit any manufacturer or device here..
The pros and cons, as well as the limitations of each are very visible. And it remains a matter of choice and priority.
The competition is wide open, and hte way I see it, with the major updates the N8 receiving in January, including a whole renewed UI, new browser, new keyboards, new camera interface and features, and other minor stuff, it should be a clear winner.
The step Symbian^3 will be taking is a lot bigger than that of Froyo's to Gingerbread that is..

[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2010-11-12 16:50 ]

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Androids are not just for web surfing, glad you some how got yourself to believe that.
Social networking, eBook reading, document editting/viewing, excellent Email functionality, multimedia with apps such as RockPlayer, WinAmp, they are excellent for gaming, customizability is one of their major strong points, being able to tye in 3rd party apps, core apps etc...very well together etc... They arent good at camera yes, but they do all else VERY well.
Its great to have a few firsts although USB-OTG was once done in some random WindowsMobile phone years ago. The N8's only firsts are Pentaband and the largest camera sensor other than that no other, the N900 had USB-OTG also enabled by the Maemo community before the N8 was in the market.
As i said, Androids arent just big screens and web surfing, clearly you dont know much about them, and the way you have gone on, you clearly havent had much experience with them,as THEN you wouldn't post ignorant comments like that.

Posted by mrjulius
geezzzz!

Android is good! and why many manufacturer drop symbian?

Posted by Tsepz_GP
False morel
Did Nokia say January 2011 specifically? I keep seeing 1st half and early 2011: http://m.zdnet.co.uk/news/mob[....]dates-for-early-2011-40090806/ which one is it exactly? 1st half which is a whole 6months, or January as you say?
Also, how exactly do you know how big the update to Gingerbread will be hmm? Have you got some kind of official source there? Rumours are that it will bring support for 1280x760 res displays, but thats realy all people have been able to find, the rest is just speculation.

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-12 18:15:13, mrjulius wrote:
geezzzz!

Android is good! and why many manufacturer drop symbian?

Yes, Android is good. No doubt about that. The subject we're debating is whether it's better than Symbian or not, and whether Android's high-ends are a better deal than the N8 or not, and about the future of each OS for the coming months..

@ Tsepz

By stressing on the Internet-tablet factor, I'm not criticizing the OS there, but rather all the high-ends featuring the OS. This is the current feature all manufacturers stressing on.. Huge screens on slim devices which provide excellent surfing capability.. I know what other things those phones are capable of and at what efficiency; which isn't that satisfying contrary to your claims, despite the 1Ghz and various RAMs at minimum of 512..
Which isn't bad either, but definitely not a compromise!

And I used Androids phones, each for a day or two, before selling them, and I know much about the OS!
However, considering the Droid high-ends in the market right now, they lack some major stuff..
Besides, technically, though Android having some major advantages over Symbian in some aspects, but also trailing behind in other majors!!

About the coming updates, I think Google better fix the current bugs and lags before going for new features to begin with!
And regardless of the step Gingerbread is taking Android up with, it wont exceed the step Symbian is taking by all those major tweaks and implementations coming! And this is quite expected and normal.
It's Symbian that's really taking a major step here, not Android taking a tiny one..
As to the date I posted it was so declared in SEE this week..

Posted by Tsepz_GP
False morel
Ive been satisfied and so have many others thus the huge growth in Android share.

What are these "major" aspects that Android is trailing behind in?
I do agree that Android's update to Gingerbread MAY not be as big as S^3, it makes sense as Android isn't in need of any major updates like Symbian is. The API level in Gingerbread is higher than Froyo though, and from what some have picked up in the latest Gmaps update, there is going to be a lot of tweaking under the hood, and even higher quality software.
By the way have Nokia now released the new dev tools for the new UI to app devs,as i read at AAS that these updates will require devs to update their apps to.

At SEE, if you look at the link above they said 1st half, i didnt see anything about January.

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-12 21:04:54, Tsepz_GP wrote:
False morel
Ive been satisfied and so have many others thus the huge growth in Android share.

Good. That's why I stated it's goes down to a matter of choice and priority.
So stop generalizing, and suggesting that Symbian is inferior to Android whereas many out there disagree with that!

What are these "major" aspects that Android is trailing behind in?

Efficiency! This is important, maybe the most important in a smartphone while you, and Android users in general, somehow trying to underestimate/devalue this factor!
Capability, in the sense of diverse funtions it can do/offer..
And this list of things each OS can't do can go quite longer.. But I'm really bored at this stuff as I'm discussing it much lately..
Just wait for the updates, and the new figures of Q4 and the yearly figures as well.. Maybe then, we'd have nothing to discuss really, as everything would get quite obvious..

At SEE, if you look at the link above they said 1st half, i didnt see anything about January.

Well, you made me check for this as you're stressing too much on this point.. May I ask why doesthe exact date make such importance for you?!
But anyway, I might be wrong! To be honest, I checked the direct official sites where most probably I got this piece of info from, but yes, all what I've got if first half! I didn't search thoroughly though and wont do it!
All I had in mind, is the updates to come in packages starting January..
Hopefully I got that from a reliable source..

Posted by mlife

On 2010-11-12 17:48:22, false_morel wrote:
Tsepz,

Heck, the Galaxy S doesn't even have a flash at all!

[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2010-11-12 16:50 ]

well.... thats not really true

[ This Message was edited by: mlife on 2010-11-13 02:15 ]

Posted by tranced
@mlife: I think he means the i9000.

Posted by AbuBasim
"Nokia reaffirms commitment to Symbian platform"? When will we see the headline saying 'Developers return to Symbian after a brief visit to Android and OS X?' Will that be the same day we have to carry umbrellas even during sunny weather to avoid being hit by pigsh!t since pigs have grown wings and taken to the air?

Posted by Tsepz_GP
False morel
Android's System itself is effecient,the main battery drain is the displays and always on data connection- updates being pushed, apps/widgets refreshing location info if youre on the move etc...
Capability? Android OS itself is very capable, havent found anything the OS itself cant do compared to Symbian.

The reason why i care about the specific date is because i should be receiving a Nokia N8 in the next week or so for review, and even they just say 1st half. It's all good though ,i'll have more time to go deeper into S^3 and compare to Android, as the last time i handled the N8 was for just for a few mins as i said.
AbuBasim
+1

Posted by Hobbs
Where you getting this N8 from to review bud?
First thing I want to know is how it fares in the 'Blender Test"
Do it,I know you want to,Defender of the Droid

[ This Message was edited by: Hobbs on 2010-11-13 09:50 ]

Posted by Tsepz_GP
Hobbs, check SA Discussion, its coming from NokiaSA, WRT the N8ReviewZA Competition.

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-13 10:02:11, Tsepz_GP wrote:
False morel
Android's System itself is effecient,the main battery drain is the displays and always on data connection- updates being pushed, apps/widgets refreshing location info if youre on the move etc...
Capability? Android OS itself is very capable, havent found anything the OS itself cant do compared to Symbian.

Symbian does all of those functions, yet more efficiently..
As to capability shortcomings, you'll have to google them.. There are some differences. And that not to mention that it's true Froyo brought some needed features along the way, but also some bugs and lags as well.
Here's where Symbian's maturity comes on top of things..

But as I said, both have huge potential.. Though I prefer the Symbian approach with the Qt SDK, and the smart solution for compatibility issues..
We shall see if it would bring teh success expected and leave Symbian at its current spot.

The reason why i care about the specific date is because i should be receiving a Nokia N8 in the next week or so for review, and even they just say 1st half. It's all good though ,i'll have more time to go deeper into S^3 and compare to Android, as the last time i handled the N8 was for just for a few mins as i said.

Well, I'll have to wish you some good time with teh handset. I know you will..

mlife:
well.... thats not really true

tranced:
@mlife: I think he means the i9000.

That Galaxy wih the flash should be the Epic 4G.. It's the only "version" of the Galaxy family in the US the have flash, as well as 4G network support..
All other three versions aren't euipped with a one..
And more importantly of course, the international version as well!

Posted by mlife

my phone is the Samsung Galaxy S "Fascinate" by Verizon.... it too has the flash

[ This Message was edited by: mlife on 2010-11-14 05:03 ]

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-14 01:24:20, mlife wrote:
my phone is the Samsung Galaxy S "Fascinate" by Verizon.... it too has the flash

True. The Fascinate and the Epic 4G have flash. The latter also comes with a sliding Qwerty keyboard, front camera, and 4G netwrok support; the only Galaxy S to include those features.
All other Galaxies neither have any camera flash nor any of those Epic 4G's extra features. That is, the Captivate and the Vibrant, and i9000 which is the international version.

Posted by shaliron
Symbian is a dying platform. Period. Sure it may eventually sell mounds in the lower end market, where 90% of customers are probably unaware that they're even buying a smartphone, but you only have a single manufacturer who is prepared to release phones on the platform. There is no long term market for this OS and every other manufacturer has come to this realisation, even Nokia itself with its development of its Maemo/Meego platform for its future high end devices.

Symbian^3 is just stop gap. The previous version was laggy, buggy, incosistent, and not competitive with modern devices. It didn't even have basic features like threaded messaging, things that even other company's dumbphones had already come out with. All Symbian^3 is doing is bringing itself back to a barely competitive position with the other manufacturers. There's nothing revolutionary about it. There are only so many ways Nokia can continue to dress the OS to keep it 'modern'.

Posted by mlife
LOL... go back and read your post... then try and tell me that's not 100% hater talk. .... The fact is Nokia is a VERY successful mobile device manufacture maybe even more so than your company (IMO) and I'd image they not only have a business plan to remain on top of the industry but also to improve their products.

In 1984 Apple sold its first computers which were successful for a while... then in the 90's when PC's were all the rage, similar comments were made then about apple/Macintosh and how the company was "done" because PC's were SOOO much better ..... Sound familiar? The same was said about the T-mobile G1 when it first came out... they didn't get it... simply didn't understand/comprehend why that device was so cool. And although cutting edge for its time never got "iPhone" status... Now look at android and iPhone.... Due to HUGE amounts of advertising dollars telling you its the best thing ever, you and others are praising it like the last OS that will ever rule.... simply not true. Im not sure about Melbourne televison but here in the US, you NEVER see Nokia advertising via TV spots yet they still manage to sell LOTS of phones here. All the meantime you can't watch ONE TV show without seeing HTC, Motorola, Samsung or iPhone telling you and your kids how much you HAVE TO HAVE that stuff.

Trust me, if nokia is sticking with symbian its because they have plan for the platform and unlike you are thinking past next weeks release of the latest trendy Android device. Furthermore, I believe that although people are typically sheep and trend followers some actually remain loyal to a quality product (ie apple and in this case nokia) and those consumer dollars will continue to fund their existence.

[ This Message was edited by: tranced on 2010-11-16 02:25 ]

Posted by shaliron
@mlife
Apple was suffering in the 90s because they were producing bad hardware and more importantly had an OS going nowhere. The reason why Apple is rebounded in the personal computer market is because it restarted with their OS, moving to Mac OS X, removing backward compatibility to create an operating system with focus on developing it for future technologies.

Nokia is in the same position. It's got an OS (Symbian) which is old and falling behind the curve in terms of innovation. They're currently working on Meego, attempting to create a fresh break from the past and create a platform which will carry them into the future. I'm not hating on Nokia, I'm just pointing out that Symbian is not the OS of Nokia's future, if anything it will be Meego.

Posted by Tsepz_GP

On 2010-11-15 04:45:46, shaliron wrote:
Symbian is a dying platform. Period. Sure it may eventually sell mounds in the lower end market, where 90% of customers are probably unaware that they're even buying a smartphone, but you only have a single manufacturer who is prepared to release phones on the platform. There is no long term market for this OS and every other manufacturer has come to this realisation, even Nokia itself with its development of its Maemo/Meego platform for its future high end devices.

Symbian^3 is just stop gap. The previous version was laggy, buggy, incosistent, and not competitive with modern devices. It didn't even have basic features like threaded messaging, things that even other company's dumbphones had already come out with. All Symbian^3 is doing is bringing itself back to a barely competitive position with the other manufacturers. There's nothing revolutionary about it. There are only so many ways Nokia can continue to dress the OS to keep it 'modern'.

+1, nail on the head, especialy about S60v5, i actualy cant believe Nokia/Symbian thought they could release such an incomplete and unstable version of S60. S60v5 just doesnt feel as robust as S60v3.
There's absolutely no Nokia hate in your comment,and many of your points have been highlighted by many, even by AllAboutSymbian shockingly enough.

[/quote]

Posted by false_morel
So many brainwashed just everywhere..

It's no secret that media controls the world in these times..
Well wide-spread ignorance does help in the process as well to be honest..

Anyway, you know why Android hyped so much?

Simple. Google invested in it. Regardless of the pros and cons of that OS!
Android is being marketed separately by Google.. And hugely too..

If you watch or listen to any main American media outlet at teh moment, Android's ads with that greenish little droid and attractive statements are all over the place.
With Symbian, Nokia can't do the same..
They promote their diverse handsets directly instead.. That is you'd come across Nokia N8's ads all over the net.. But never Symbian.. Nokia advertises the features in each of their phones.. As to the operating system, it wont get mentioned.. Simply because in order to make all those feature available and working there should be some OS running them.. For the average user this the least to worry about and the last thing to ask/know about!

For Nokia, they invest that much in Symbian, not to advertise it, and attract end users by some small greenish icons and some exaggerated description..
For them they care to have an efficient stable OS that could run on the least requirements possilbe while enabling them to offer all the killer features at top performace then advertise those and provide a decent functionality as well as a friendly UI..
The last part is still being worked on.. However, the main and harder part is already completed by Symbian^3!

There are two aspects to discuss in this matter..
Popularity, public acceptance, and hence the sales of each OS..
The technical level of each OS at the moment and regarding coming upgrades where it's very well discussed in previous posts in this thread and everything should plain clear in this aspect as there are no speculations to make..

And for that member claiming that the majority of Symbian phones owners don't even realize they own a smartphone, what about Android owners who don't even know what Android exactly supposed to be?
Most of Android phones owners, either went for Nexus 1 jsut because it was first Google's phone and pretty much hyped, or for the Samsung's Galaxy due to teh excessive advertising the firm commited for that piece of hardware specially the Super AMOLED screen as if it comes from some other world dimension, or HTC phones because of the boost they got making the Nexus1 and due to the over-estimated Sense UI..

And as mlife said: People going into mobile shops asking for droid phones. "Hello, could you give me a droid phone please."

The wind will soon calm down..

Actually, analyzing the market's future:
Samsung aren't relying that much on Android. They went with the flow and introduced a phone with teh same general Android approach, huge screen, tiny camera, custom UI.. Just to profit from the situation you know.. With Bada now, and they seem to be endorsing Windows Phone more, don't be surprised if they drop Android all of a sudden if Galaxy's sales drop a bit down!
HTC are relying on Android as much as Windows Phone.. A two way for them..
SE are b*llshit and in deep sh!t! They aren't made for smartphones.. And they play an insignificant role really!
Motorolla will stay Motorolla regardless of the OS they make. Despite them benifiting from Android quite a bit, with their Droids, but their reputation will stay teh same. At teh end of the day, they are making the worst Androids in the market. Worst UI, and worst features package.
And LG are going down the road quickly as it seems, with or without Android..

The way I see it, Nokia are worth all of Samsung, LG, Motorolla, HTC, and SE combined!
We might not need to go into the next year to be certain about that. Just this quarter would show it all...

For the mean time, for the ignorant I say read some more and grow some brains that think all by itself..
I thought by discussing such a topic over here, I would come across some knowledgable members, who know teh stuff and talk with some objectivity. It seems the most are just influenced by huge amount of b*llshit floating all over the place..

Anyway, and as to the market enthusiasts, I simply say nothing is certain!
The following two quarters will be decisive as it seems, maybe not though.. But still, it's too early to judge.

[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2010-11-15 20:53 ]

Posted by Tsepz_GP
^

Wtf?

not to advertise it, and attract end users by some smal greenish icons and some exaggerated description.. For them they care to have an efficient stable OS

Small greenish icons? Exaggerated description

i dont get how the greenish icon would help as you go on to say that most didnt go for Android due to Android but:

Most of Android phones owners, either went for Nexus 1 jsut because it was first Google's phone and pretty much hyped, or for the Samsung's Galaxy due to teh excessive advertising the firm commited for that piece of hardware specially the Super AMOLED screen as if it phones because of the boost they got making the Nexus1 and due to the over-estimated Sense UI.

do you have any proof of this? If im not mistaken the NexusOne didnt even do so well, and its now only for developers or 2nd hand.
Please explain what exactly this "exaggerated description"???
Interesting you should say "Stable OS" as the N96, N97, N97mini etc...were anything but stable, and browsing through just a tiny bit at Nokia Discussion, quite a lot are having constant reboots, or dead N8s, here's just one example:
http://discussions.europe.nok[....]and-can-t-charging/td-p/778960
Stable huh?
Androids have bugs, no doubt, but it seems Symbians still take the cake, they require a ton of updates, my 5800 is sitting on v51 and anyone can tell you there's still countless bugs, still a lot of reboots/freezes then reboots, especialy when theme effects and auto rotate are on.
Effecient? To a certain extent, have you used a X10Mini next to a E52 or E5? The E5 rocks a 600mhz CPU with 256mb RAM, same as X10Mini, yet the X10mini blows it away in speed, whether it be opening up a ton of emails, a heavy web page. Ofcourse the E52 has longer battery life thanks to its 1500mAh batt, it did have to trade off a AF Camera to be slim and have that battery, while X10Mini has a little 960mah or so. Same comparison done with the Milestone, Androids can run just fine,if not better on low end hardware.

The way I see it, Nokia are worth all of Samsung, LG, Motorolla, HTC, and SE combined! We might not need to go into the next year to be certain about that. Just this quarter would show it all...

Samsung are catching up to Nokia rapidly, have you watched how they have continued to how much they have increased every quater for the past 2years, dont under-estimate them, Samsung are already acting like acting like a market leader, they are not far off from obtaining that title.
As for HTC, SE and Moto, they certainly arent much of a threat to Nokia indivdualy, but they are part of the reason Android is so big, together they can eat away Nokia's share, in smartphones.

For the mean time, for the ignorant I say read some more and grow some brains that think all by itself.. I thought by discussing such a topic over here, I would come across some knowledgable members, who know come across some knowledgable members, who know teh stuff and talk with some objectivity. It seems the most are just influenced by huge amount of b*llshit floating all over the place..

Absolutely no need to get offensive just because some of us dont agree with you.

The amount of app development, the huge increase in market share globaly etc... by Android all speaks for itself, Shaliron hit the nail on the head, sorry if you didnt like it False Morel, but it is what it is.
I dont think there is anymore reason to go on with this discussion if you're going to get offensive, im done, Android will continue to eat away at Symbian share and its fans, not my problem if you cant accept that.

[ This Message was edited by: Tsepz_GP on 2010-11-16 00:51 ]

Posted by mrjulius
inside my mind.

'Demand and supply'

and not all people 'GEEK' as you. So friendly UI in green logo, is GREAT.

Posted by false_morel

On 2010-11-16 01:41:27, Tsepz_GP wrote:
Small greenish icons? Exaggerated description

i dont get how the greenish icon would help as you go on to say that most didnt go for Android due to Android but:

What about half of them going for the little greenish droid and the other half for the other stuff I mentioned..

The point I wanted to make is that using this logic, one can apply it on every side.. It's not far from the truth either!
This is what happening. Funny as it could get, this is how the public is driven by media!

For instance, adding to what I wrote in a sarcastic way, some could go for the N8 just because it's the latest flagship from Nokia.
Some would go for it just because it has a huge "thingy" in that camera that make it the best in the market..
Some would go for it just because it's available in orange (no offense for you etaab

)..

In brief, this is how things are going.
And this is why I divided this dicussion into two parts.
One concerning the makret shares and the sales, where teh technical stuff play the minimal role!

And the technical part where some who care for what the OS can offer them, and what that high-end smartphone is really capable of..

do you have any proof of this?

Again, I just wanted to show the members going against Symbian for the wrong reasons what an illogic they are using..

Please explain what exactly this "exaggerated description"???

Watch those Google ads.
And it'S not something bad! This is called smart marketing. They have all the right to do it.. And I salute them for that success..
It's simply working for them.

Same as those funny Appe guys.. That developer in the official iPhone 4 promo refering to facetime as unbelievable and seemed like to cum onto the screen with enthusiasm, while Nokia had a front camera running on both 3G and Wifi five years before Apple even considered developing the iPhone! And they promote it as an innovation.

Anyway, this is meant for the ignorant weak minded. But it works. Since those make up the majority!

Interesting you should say "Stable OS" as the N96, N97, N97mini etc...were anything but stable, and browsing through just a tiny bit at Nokia Discussion, quite a lot are having constant reboots, or dead N8s, here's just one example:
http://discussions.europe.nok[....]and-can-t-charging/td-p/778960
Stable huh?

How many times should I post Symbian's story over and over again so that you stop going back to Symbian^1 and high-light its shortcomings?!!

Should I go back to early Android versions? I don't have to go back too much in time. Android 1.6 isn't that old, isn't it?
Anyway, we have Symbian^3 now.

And as to those dead N8's and other rebooting ones and whatever, what private or support forum for any handset doesn't have these users with their problems?
Just zoom out a bit, act a bit objective and mature, and look at the wider image including millions of N8's in use.

Androids have bugs, no doubt, but it seems Symbians still take the cake, they require a ton of updates, my 5800 is sitting on v51 and anyone can tell you there's still countless bugs, still a lot of reboots/freezes then reboots, especialy when theme effects and auto rotate are on.

There is no perfect design, no perfect OS, not even a perfect app or tiny code of programming. There is always room for improving, and room for every bug to squeeze in and then get crushed out.

Effecient? To a certain extent, have you used a X10Mini next to a E52 or E5? The E5 rocks a 600mhz CPU with 256mb RAM, same as X10Mini, yet the X10mini blows it away in speed, whether it be opening up a ton of emails, a heavy web page. Ofcourse the E52 has longer battery life thanks to its 1500mAh batt, it did have to trade off a AF Camera to be slim and have that battery, while X10Mini has a little 960mah or so. Same comparison done with the Milestone, Androids can run just fine,if not better on low end hardware.

You are comparing two different OS with versions up to three years difference in age?! And on a two different pieces of hardware each made for different purprose?
And don't ask me why Nokia went with that outdated versoin of Symbian on the E5. I don't know.
But we have Symbian^3 now.. Stick to that.

Yes, I know about the Samsung rise. However, they still have a long way to go!
Because obviously they are still far off from obtaining the title?!!

Anyway, why can't Nokia strike back and regain what market share they lost? Not that everyone gaining market share should continue doing it no matter what.
Apple lost one point the last quarter contrary to all expectatoins. And many are saying now that maybe Apple reached their high in the second quarter..

Ah yeah he definitely did. It was a broken nail though!

He's repeating what he'S getting through the media.. That's all.
One needs to think through you know.
He claimed that Nokia are replacing Symbian with Meego while they themselves denied that and declared full commitment to Symbian. The very topic this thread is about.
He is so much fed to an extent that he would believe a rumor made up by some reporter at Engadget than believing an official announcement by Nokia.

Well, excuse me, but I think this is just unacceptable. For his sake more than any actually!
Going "offensive" is only meant to wake him up. And others as well..

I dont think there is anymore reason to go on with this discussion if you're going to get offensive, im done, Android will continue to eat away at Symbian share and its fans, not my problem if you cant accept that.

You see, no matter what arguments one comes up with, this is the only thing you have to say.
Even teh best market analysts out there are in confusion predicting through the revolution we're witnessing and yet you are that certain..

Posted by shaliron

On 2010-11-16 03:49:44, false_morel wrote:
He's repeating what he'S getting through the media.. That's all.
One needs to think through you know.
He claimed that Nokia are replacing Symbian with Meego while they themselves denied that and declared full commitment to Symbian. The very topic this thread is about.
He is so much fed to an extent that he would believe a rumor made up by some reporter at Engadget than believing an official announcement by Nokia.

Here are the facts:

Meego is technologically more advanced OS than Symbian.
Nokia is continuing development of Meego.
If Nokia was truly 'fully committing' to Symbian, and wanted that OS be their choice for the future, then they would stop development of Meego.
Nokia has committed to both both OSes.

They are continuing support for Symbian so that they can use it in their lower end devices but in the medium to long run, they will need a more advanced operating system to use in their high end devices. Meego is currently that OS. You can already see evidence in this strategy with the N900.

I fail to see how these facts could be interpreted in any other way. This discussion is becoming pointless.