Posted by zAlbee
Original
At night, but with bright lighting (no flash)
Original
Really impressed with the Hazel. Only problem is the flash is worthless; I find I only get good pictures with it off.
Posted by reeflotz
agree, the yellowish flash ruins the picture very badly. The good thing is it can still be used as a flashlight, at least it's not completely worthless
[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2011-01-14 15:30 ]
Posted by urednik
Ok, now I got a sunny day to give it a shot with my problematic white balance. Obviously it seems a problem in the software - white balance is set way to cold. My settings were automatic, but it would get even worse if set to a sunny day. Please comment my conclusion after watching my photos below, before I go to SE service. Thanks
I am impressed how sharp photos can be made with such a small lense, it even might be usefull to sometimes
set the camera to 5Mpx (yes ...).
Original photo, clean lens, sunny day. The wb is totally off - to cold:
Original
Modified wb, added red and yellow, getting near to the natural colour balance:
Original
Another photo recorded with a wrong setting (cloudy) getting more near to a correct wb, though the red colour is a little to strong here:
Original
Original photo, clean lens, shadow on a sunny day. The wb is totally off - much to cold:
Original
Modified wb, still not enough, even after adding 20%of red colour and 12% of yellow the picture is colder as in reallity:
Original
[ This Message was edited by: urednik on 2011-01-14 23:54 ]
Posted by reeflotz
To be honest I don't see that much anything wrong with the white balance now after the pictures you posted, setting to auto white balance creates a cold picture this is normal and typical in most digital cameras and cameraphones. For me usually when the sun is shining strong (yellowish sunlight) I use daylight wb, when the skies are clear (white sunlight) or cloudy I use cloudy wb to get warmer pictures. There are also times using snow settings + correct white balance produces good results during daylight.
BTW have you tried updating your Elm's firmware? If you have the cable you can try the firmware update through SE update service, might solve your problem or if you are unsure just bring it to a SE service.
[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2011-01-15 01:57 ]
Posted by jms2367
@urednik
same here, I agree with Reeflotz, I don't see any problem with the WB in your photos. If I am not mistaken, you also posted in the SE discussion board regarding the WB alleged problem. I used to complain also regarding the low light pics taken by the Elm. Well, I learned to live with it since I couldn't expect much from a relatively low priced camera phone to perform like a real digital camera. If I needed to take good low light pics, it is much better to bring along a dedicated camera.
Funny but true, I agree with what Degraff said in the SE discussion board: "Buy a camera if you want to take perfect pictures. Geez. You're talking about a phone here."
Posted by aldrinus
@jms: a very apt related quote from degraaf, mate! camphones can only be pushed to what they can really just offer, drivers modding included. for one, i believe that SE's R&D is somehow doing their homework. but then, there would always be another guy smarter than them who somehow comes up with a better driver, much to our liking most of the time. modding, per se, will always be defined and limited by hardware issues.
these latest photos all look sharp, notwithstanding the coldness factor.
Posted by urednik
Guys sorry to say, but white balance issue has nothing to do with tha fact that it is just a phone camera.
Well if you say it is nothing wrong with the white balance, why then such a big difference between my Elm (misses red and yellow big time) and w890i, as I posted before?
Additinally I have the latest firmware installed. When I bought the phone it was not working and the camera was just making dark photos, totally dark (with the newest firmware vie SE PC Suite), before I brought it to the service.
And just to make things clearer, I can try to do whatever I wish, but there is no way I could make a shot with such colours (whichever setting it is) as zAlbee (and he has got the same camera):
[ This Message was edited by: urednik on 2011-01-15 08:29 ]
Posted by jms2367
I am getting also similar results with my Elm even when taking pictures in broad daylight. I don't think SE has a solution for this at the moment.
full size
There are a lot of limitations of the Elm being a mid tier camera phone. The flash is almost totally useless in low light. There are those red and blue lines when taking low light pictures. The shutter speed is very slooow so you have to hold your hands very steady when taking indoor shots with not that much light. Because of this I rarely use my Elm for taking low light photos. I only mainly use my Elm as a phone and I take pictures with it for fun. I do use it also for taking important photos when I do not have a dedicated camera with me but I do not expect much from it being a low priced camera phone. I think the Nokia N8 judging from the photo gallery takes very good pictures. I suggest if you want a really decent camera phone, do get the N8.
Cheers.
Posted by urednik
JMS yes, you have a similar problem, though the biggest problem by me is the white balance without sunshine. It looks nearly black and white.
Once again - the camera is greaaat. Just the WB setting is of, which is easy to adjust in the software! So we should not give up - SE should try to help us with problematic handsets. Obviously not eberybody with ELM has got such extreme problems.
Posted by degraaff
Did you know that your eyes, in very low light, also see close to black and white? Colour is an effect of light breaking and reflecting. If there isn't much light, there isn't much colour accordingly. The Elm, apparently, just doesn't have anything in its camdriver to compensate this effect of colour loss in darkness.
Posted by urednik
degraaf, no, it is just a wrong WB setting and to little saturation. That is all. And it is visible in all the conditions, so telling a photographer how his eyes are misleading is a humbug.
I am honestly disappointed by you guys. Thought you have some knowledge about photography. But as I see you just luckily make good photos ...
To say something like degraaf or jms is a clear state of ignorance.
I am not talking about non-quality WB and other things. It is about totally off settings!
Sorry, but that is a fact.
Posted by jms2367
I was hoping that SE will correct some issues with the Elm with a camdriver update but I lost faith with SE with regards to software updating. As a backgrounder, if you will research closely re the Elm and Hazel's low light camera problems, there are two differing opinions, one is that it is a software problem and the other that it is because of the hardware used. If it is software, I hope somebody can make a better cam driver for these phones. Sad to say, SE is very slow in updating their software (think of the xperia x10, x8 lineup in which it is way behind in the software front in terms of Android. How much more will they ignore updating the lowly Elm).
@urednik
Anyway, you may try bringing your phone to an authorized service center and good luck with your endeavor. As for me, I learned to live with it and I still do get occasional good photos with the Elm.
Cheers!
[ This Message was edited by: jms2367 on 2011-01-15 12:37 ]
Posted by reeflotz
@ urednik
"luckily make good photos?" I don't think so.
These are my settings when I took these pictures and I am satisfied with how the wb came out:
Auto+ Daylight:
Original
Original
Auto, ev-1
Original
If you think your unit is faulty then you better send it back for a replacement. We are trying to help you here, not insult you, the thing is you are constantly complaining about the wrong wb on whatever setting you use, I don't have a problem with wb on my Hazel as well as the others doesn't seem to have that much problem with their wb unlike you. We have already tried as much as we can to get the best results out of our cameraphones and share them here. Constantly complaining here that we are wrong and saying you are the only one who is not able to produce pictures that we were able to won't help you. I still think the daylight pics you posted seems normal to me.
[ This Message was edited by: reeflotz on 2011-01-15 13:21 ]
Posted by degraaff
On 2011-01-15 12:27:51, urednik wrote:
degraaf, no, it is just a wrong WB setting and to little saturation. That is all. And it is visible in all the conditions, so telling a photographer how his eyes are misleading is a humbug.
I am honestly disappointed by you guys. Thought you have some knowledge about photography. But as I see you just luckily make good photos ...
To say something like degraaf or jms is a clear state of ignorance.
I am not talking about non-quality WB and other things. It is about totally off settings!
Sorry, but that is a fact.
Re-read my last sentence. I'm not saying that your eyes are misleading you into seeing lower colour saturation in your pictures, I'm just stating that the Elm's camdriver does not compensate the natural loss of colour due to lack of light. The Elm's camera unit has less sensitive light sensing than human eyes so it's extra prone to loss of colour by darkness, and it's not being compensated in the camdriver by a digital increase of colour saturation. And you can whine about it all you want, it's not going to change unless a new and better camdriver becomes available.
We all face the same problems with the Elm's camera as you do, so stop complaining about it and learn to live with it until someone releases a better camdriver.
[ This Message was edited by: degraaff on 2011-01-15 14:12 ]
Posted by jms2367
I am also satisfied with the general results of the pictures taken by my Elm. Even in some low light pics I am satisfied with the white balance barring the horizontal lines.
full size
I forgot to lower the EV of the picture of the motorcycle above hence the more pronounced blue horizontal lines which is a known issue with the Elm.
About photography, this is not a sophisticated single lens reflex digital camera with all the bells and whistles (I really want to put for crying out loud here ). You can only do so much on a camera phone. I do play around with the different settings of the Elm but it is not meant to be a real camera. I do get decent photos in well lighted environment but I don't expect much from it in low light situations. My opinion still stands. If you want a very good camera phone, I think the N8 is the best atm.
Cheers.
Posted by aldrinus
i've already somehow implied my opinion on this matter on my previous post: a good shot or photo by a camphone is a combination of an equally good software and hardware. but one defining factor will always be the person behind the camera. take reeflotz' custom tweaking or jms' personal preferences when taking photos of varied conditions, those would eventually drive my point. a good camera with the all the best there is will be of no good to a bad photographer. i don,t really know since i am not an avowed pro or a techie for that matter. maybe its just me. this is just my 2 cents. cheers, everyone.
by the way, i think we all trust ourselves well enough when we say we know a good photo when we see one. again, i guess each and everyone will have relative reasons behind our individual judgments.
Posted by urednik
On 2011-01-15 15:11:04, degraaff wrote:
We all face the same problems with the Elm's camera as you do, so stop complaining about it and learn to live with it until someone releases a better camdriver.
[ This Message was edited by: degraaff on 2011-01-15 14:12 ]